Hi Swistle,
I’ve followed your site for ages – even before getting married – because I love your logical approach to naming, which can be such an emotional choice!
I’m finding this out first-hand while trying to name our first born son, due August 10. Using your suggestions from past posts, my husband and I have narrowed it down to the following three, but are open to other suggestions:
Avery Logan Kiner
Beckett Jay Kiner
Brooks Logan KinerOur (Jewish!) last name is pronounced KIGH-ner. I’m against a repetitive “er” sound in the first name, because it feels silly (ie Parker Kiner, Connor Kiner) and don’t care for K names either (Kody Kiner). Blegh.
The main trouble is, we can’t agree on a favorite name. Even close family and friends go in very different directions when we share these three options with them.
We thought Avery was the one for awhile, but the popularity of the girl name has me on edge. It remains my husband’s favorite. Beckett is my favorite, but the hubs doesn’t like “Beck” as a nickname and his grandma asked if it was like “bucket” which made him nervous that it was too unique. Brooks has come up in the past week or two as an attempt at a compromise, and its cute… but neither of us really love it yet.
Then, the middle name debacle. Again, my husband is Jewish so they don’t believe in honor names for living relatives. I’m a red-haired Christian, so all middle names in my family are honor names of some kind. (It’s worth noting that this baby could have red hair too, which might let him standout enough without a unique name!)
Logan is actually my husband’s favorite baby name but it’s so popular (top 10) that I said no to it as a first name. I do like it as a conservative middle name especially for a boy with a more unique first name like Avery. If he gets teased for having a girl name, Logan feels masculine enough to balance it out and give him an option. It also seems to flow well in between.
Jay is actually an nod to Ben’s father whose middle name is J (literally just the letter), which he OK’d and my sister’s soon to be husband, Jaysen. We love Jason/Jay/Jaysen as a name but it’s too common/used in our family for living relatives to feel appropriate. I also tried to fight for an honor to my passed grandfather, Frederick Hugh in the middle name – but hubs didn’t like either of those names at all.
Other names we’ve considered and deleted: Micah, Henry, Owen, Brody, Jordan, Jude, Brady, Colton… Jordy (was a big contender for awhile).
Our girl names came super easy to us! They were Nora and Ruby, which we still love and would like to potentially use as siblings to this baby one day. I also love our second two options as brother names – Beckett and Brooks.
Can you help steer us in one direction or another? Appreciate your help!!
Love,
Ben & Krista
It has been awhile since I’ve checked in with the U.S. usage of the name Avery, so I’m going to start by looking at that.
2010: 6673 F, 1697 M
2011: 7340 F, 1790 M
2012: 8314 F, 2012 M
2013: 9174 F, 2047 M
2014: 9563 F, 2281 M
2015: 9339 F, 2210 M
2016: 8759 F, 2111 M
2017: 8186 F, 2179 M
That is very interesting to me. The usage rises together and falls together in a way I would not expect. Here is what I expected to see: the usage rising for both, and then starting to drop for boys: when a name is in disputed usage, the boys almost always back down. Instead, breaking out my high school math, I can see this:
2010: 80% F, 20% M
2011: 80% F, 20% M
2012: 81% F, 19% M
2013: 82% F, 18% M
2014: 81% F, 19% M
2015: 81% F, 19% M
2016: 81% F, 19% M
2017: 79% F, 21% M
It is HOLDING STEADY for boys, despite being used four times more often for girls. I don’t dare to hope that this means we are finally entering an era where a name’s rising usage for girls doesn’t mean it falls off the list for parents of boys, as if being associated with girls was a kiss of death, but…well, actually, I do hope it a little. So many excellent gentle names for boys have been lost this way.
I am unsure how to proceed from here. If the polls would still work on this blog, I would do a poll; sadly the polls have been even glitchier than the comments section. We can do a sort of manual poll by having commenters write out their pick in the comments section, but we never get anywhere near as many comments as we get poll votes, and there is nothing quite like the vivid visual of a poll. Well. This earth is full of sorrow, and we will have to bear up under the poll-related elements of that. [Edited to add: at commenter Lilly’s excellent suggestion we are going to attempt to have the poll on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Swistle/status/1013764057550196736] [Poll closed; here are the results:]
Or perhaps it would be helpful to have more suggestions? Or perhaps not: sometimes when it’s down to three nice solid finalists, the last thing you want is a whole bunch of new names to consider. Maybe instead we should be looking at posts about narrowing down a list?
But sometimes when it’s down to three, and one name is #1 for one parent and another name is #1 for the other parent and the third name is a not a strong contender yet, sometimes finding some new candidates is the only thing that breaks the stalemate.
It does look to me like you have a nice consistent style for boy names: you mostly like surname names. The name I am eager to suggest is Wesley: a gentle surname name currently used almost exclusively for boys (in the U.S. in 2017, there were 60 new baby girls and 3547 new baby boys). Wesley Kiner. Long usage so even the great-grandparents can’t pretend not to know it’s a name. Nickname Wes, which in my own opinion is one of the best male nicknames of all. Nice with either middle name candidate: Wesley Logan Kiner, Wesley Jay Kiner. Wonderful with Ruby and/or Nora. Similar in sound to both Avery and Beckett. I am holding myself back from pushing very hard for this name.
Or Anderson. Anderson Logan Kiner, Anderson Jay Kiner. I like Anderson Logan less because of the repeated endings, but I don’t mind much if the middle name doesn’t go perfectly with the first name: it’s so rare to even use the middle name.
And possibly if we change the first names we’d want to reexamine middle names anyway. That’s a bargaining chip to keep in your pocket, by the way. Right now that’s what you’re doing with the middle name Logan: it’s a favorite of your husband’s that you don’t want as a first name, so you’re offering the middle name, which is an excellent use of the middle name position. But it bothers me a little that the name Avery Logan Kiner is your husband’s two favorite names and your husband’s surname: I suggest you getting more say on the middle name if the first name ends up being Avery or any other name that he likes more than you do. Perhaps it could be one of the names you like that he doesn’t want as a first name, or an honor name from your side. Okay, back to the first names:
Oo, how about Elliot? That’s a name Paul and I couldn’t use because neither of us would back down on our preferred spelling. Elliot Kiner. Elliot Logan Kiner, Elliot Jay Kiner. Nice with Ruby and/or Nora.
Or Wilson. Excellent nickname Will. Wilson Kiner. Wilson Logan Kiner, Wilson Jay Kiner. Nice.
Or Davis. Davis Kiner.
Or Ellis. Ellis Kiner.
With Beckett on your list you have probably already considered Bennett, but I offer it anyway. Bennett Kiner, with the very appealing nickname Ben.
Or Garrett. Garrett Kiner.
Oh! Louis! Louis Kiner.
Or Thompson, potential nicknames Tom/Tommy. I am noticing old-fashioned nicknames making a bit of a comeback in my area: things may be shifting away from “We want to name him James but we don’t want anyone calling him Jimmy.” We have one Tommy and one Johnny in our circle of acquaintances.
Name update:
Hi Swistle,
Wanted to send you a note and introduce you to Beckett Logan Kiner!
He was born on July 28 weighing 8 lbs., and 2 oz. We are absolutely in love! Your poll (and post!) helped us immensely and guided us in making the final decision. So far, we’ve received lots of compliments. :)
Thanks again,
Krista
Swistle, you could do a poll on Twitter and add a screen shot to the post – not ideal but could be a compromise workaround?
Avery still definitely reads gender neutral to me- I don’t think of it as a girl name at all. But Beckett Kiner has me totally charmed. I like Wesley too.
Oh, I had not thought of that! Let’s try it!
I am not a big fan of Avery and would actually prefer Logan as a first – clearly you do not so you are right to leave it for the middle name. My favorite from your list is Brooks. I do prefer Bennett over Beckett but I can see where that wouldn’t work since your husband is Ben.
I do love the suggestion of Wesley. If that does appeal, I also like Wyatt.
Brooks makes me think of Miles and Hayes as options.
Logan brings to mind names like Gavin, Owen, and Evan (or maybe pulling in the surname vibe – Evans).
I second Gavin!
I am not a fan of Avery as a first name for a boy and naturally tend to love the names Beckett and Brooks as I am a big fan of surnames as first names. In the midwest there are quite a few Becketts but lesser Brooks so from your list I will choose BROOKS!
From Swistles’ suggestions I choose DAVIS!
Some names similar to Brooks and Beckett:
Barrett Logan Kiner (I love BARRETT as a first name)
Brecken Jay Kiner
Boman Jay Kiner
Of your current three choices, my vote is for Brooks. I agree with Swistle that Avery Logan Kiner is a little too heavy on your husband’s favorites for my liking.
I wonder if you’d like Calvin? I know it starts with the same sound as your last name, but since it’s a C and not a K, maybe that wouldn’t bother you as much? Calvin Jay Kiner is awesome.
Other suggestions:
Lachlan
Holden
Carter
Lincoln
Easton
Hayes
Sawyer
All three names are great! However, I lean against Beckett Kiner because I find it the toughest to say out loud–the sounds get tangled up.
Avery is my favorite in terms of flow with the surname. But I also love Brooks–it’s my godson’s name, and he gets lots of positive feedback on it!
I have the same difficulty with Beckett. Going from the T to the K is tricky.
I love Swistle’s suggestion of Wesley.
I love the name Beckett, but like a prior poster I don’t love the repetition of the hard “k” sound with your last name in either Beckett or Brooks. I do like Avery, but with girl choices of Nora and Ruby I feel like Avery would fall into the feeling of “current tailored girl names” and like it would be assumed I had three daughters. Some people don’t mind that; I personally didn’t want that so that would be enough for me to pause on the name Avery. Plus, I also agree that your husbands two favorite names being used would not be my favorite either.
I absolutely love Swistle’s suggestion of Wesley, though. It has the same gentle feel of Avery for me, LOVE the nickname Wes, and Wesley, Ruby, and Nora gives me heart-eyes. Wesley Logan Kiner sounds fabulous!
What about Everett or Emmett?
Everett Jay Kiner. Love!
I love these, and Swistle’s idea of Bennett too.
Wilson nn Will
Grayson nn Gray
I would pick Beckett for you. Avery does make me think “girl’s name”, though I’m not sure I have ever met any kids with the name. On paper I would think “girl” right away and not even think “maybe a boy?” like I do with the name “Peyton”.
Beckett sounds masculine to me and I’m not put off by the closeness to the word bucket. Beckett Avery would work.
We used Henry when my husband didn’t like the nickname Hank (and now my son likes the name Hank and my husband doesn’t even mind anymore.) Same with Rose and the nickname Rosie, though it’s only friends who sometimes call her Rosie.
I would love to see Avery on a boy. I think it’s a lovely sounding name, and I agree with Swistle that I hope parents will soon stop seeing a gender neutral name, skewing towards girls as the kiss of death for boys.
Our of Swistle’s suggestions, I like Wesley and Louis the best. I wish that Asher would be better with your last name, as I think that would be a wonderful name for your son.
This post speaks to me on so many levels – my husband is Jewish so I totally understand the difficulty of honor names, I also wanted Beckett but my husband was not sold and my sister said it sounded like bucket…
As a teacher, Avery reads more girl to me but I do think it would be a good boy name. If you don’t want that dilemma I would stay away from that name.
I love the name Beckett (I recommended it to a friend after my husband vetoed it and she used it) so that it my top choice. I like it with your last name too!
I have an Elliot of my own and I love that from Swistle’s suggestion. I also love Wesley!
I love Avery and Beckett and Brooks. I also LOVE Wesley.
I wish your husband was a bigger fan of your grandfather’s name; I LOVE Hugh. What about Hughes or Hewitt?
Avery makes me think of Alden, which makes me think of Allen/Alan and Walter (although then you have the repeated “er” sounds).
Brooks makes me think of Bridger (repeated “er” sounds). Or maybe Graham.
I also want to suggest Murray or Murphy or Jennings.
Congratulations!
Avery Jay Kiner with the option to call him AJ
I work with kids and have recently met 3(!) boys named Avery and guess what? None of their classmates bat an eye at it or tease them. Kids encounter such a variety of cultural, “girly”, ”masculine”, classic/traditional, “made up” and creative names nowadays that Avery on a boy is nothing to worry about.
If not Avery then I definitely think Wesley is a wonderful pick!
Also wanted to suggest the following since they are similar in sound or style to Avery
Grady- long A, 2 syllables ending in Y like Avery
Shane- long A sound like Avery
Jacob-same plus would be a nice subtle way to use the honor name Jay
Jacoby (Coby)- ends in Y like Avery
Zachary- Same
Blake -long A like Avery, bursting with consonants like Beckett and Brooks, surname style like all 3. A real winner and seems like a good compromise!
Everett- V sounds like Avery, ends in TT like Beckett, surname style
Davis- Long A and V like Avery, ends in S like Brooks, surname style
Hayes- ok so I wonder if this could be a real contender for you. It has a crisp surname style like Brooks and Beckett and has that long A sound like Avery. I’m not sure if this is accurate but I had a Jewish friend tell me that it’s tradition to use an initial of a deceased relative when naming a child. Could you use Hayes to honor your grandpa Hugh? The tradition/culture is his, the relative is yours- seems like a very fair compromise. I think Hayes really encompasses the sound and style of your top 3 names and would really be a lovely pick.
Of all of my suggestions I really love Blake and Hayes for you.
Hayes Logan Kiner
Hayes Jacob Kiner
Hayes Kiner
Blake Logan Kiner
Blake Kiner
Just chiming in to say I love the K sound of Beckett with the last name. Tell your husband’s grandma it’s like Samuel Beckett. (And if she’s still not sold, remind her that he did espionage work for the resistance during WWII.) Maybe your husband would warm to the nickname Becks?
Also going to mention one of my favorites, Barrett. Nickname Bear?
Oh, Swistle’s suggestion of Anderson made me think of Anders. I really like Anders, it seems similar to Avery & Brooks.
I like Avery & it still reads as masculine, even though I know it is “going girl” for a lot of people. I do agree that you should get a little more say in the middle spot if he gets his first pick for the first name. Names that feel similar to Avery for me: Everett, Abram, Gavin, Xavier.
I equally like Beckett. However, I feel surprised that you don’t have any concerns about it feeling too feminine. The nickname Beck feels more feminine to me than Avery, probably because I’m mostly familiar with it as a nickname for Rebecca (Becky/Becks/Beck/Becca). Similar to Beckett; Everett, Declan, Bennett, Barrett.
Brooks is my least favorite for you, for some reason, I’ve just never warmed up to this name. It also leans a bit feminine or “soft” to me because of the girl’s name Brook. Brooks is a little harder for me to find sound alikes for, but I’d group it with other short/sweet boy names. Blaine, Grant, Reed, Reese, Brock, Beau, Tate, Rhys, Myles. My favorites for you from this list are probably Rhys and Myles.
I feel like this is one of those things largely determined by age/region, so for context I’m a millennial in the northeastern US: if I read “Avery Logan” I would definitely think it was a girl.
That being said, I agree with another poster that it isn’t going to incur teasing or anything of that nature. Once people realize it is a boy, the correction will be made and things will move along.
From the list, I like Brooks best.
I’ll add a suggestion: Wylie
Let us know what you decide!
I agree about Avery Logan. I know several girls named Logan, so it wouldn’t make Avery more convincingly masculine for me.
I normally do polls with the site https://www.poll-maker.com. Very useful.
I like Avery Hugo.
What about Avett? It’s a nice combo of Avery and Beckett and due to the Avett Brothers no one should have trouble with pronunciation.
Avett Jay Kiner
Avett Logan Kiner
I think I prefer Avett Jay but either would work.
I reaaaaaally like Brooks for you. For what it’s worth I also like Avery and to me it’s very gender neutral, but I’m not in the US and naming trends tend to lean more fixedly towards traditional feminine and masculine names anyway, so there are far fewer names that are super popular for both genders.
Avery + Beckett = Everett
I love the name Davis! My daughter had Beckett on her list for her middle son, he ended up Nolan. She had some of the same comments by relatives with the Bucket. Her youngest is Davis ( she wrote to you 4 years ago ) well everyone she meets loves his name and a friend even said if she had thought of it she would have used it for her son who is a few months older. Avery reads girl to me. I do love Wesley and Logan as a first name. I have 5 grandson’s from 2 yrs- 10 yrs. and with all their classmates and sports I have only met 1 Logan. I think Beckett is becoming more well known and I know of one that does go by Beck, he is so cute! Brooks feels more formal to me, but I think it’s a nice strong name.
From the names you’ve listed
1. Brooks Logan
2. Beckett Jay
3. Avery Frederick
I feel like Avery Logan is a perfectly nice name but you may resent the fact that both names were your husband’s favorites. Our first born son is named exactly what my husband wanted and although the names are classics used on both sides of our families- it still irks me 6 years later that I didn’t hold my ground.
I would rank your top three:
Brooks (love!)
Beckett (really like although he’ll certainly be called Beck from time to time)
Avery (like but prefer on a girl)
And I def think you should get to choose the middle as the babe will have your husband’s family name as the surname. I would go with Jay or Jace or push back for Fredrick or Hugh. Or use your maiden name?
I like the suggestions of Davis and Calvin. Also Hayes. A few others that I like for you:
Landon
Sullivan, nn Sully
Truman
Reid
Graham
Lewis
Milo
Everett
My vote goes to Wesley:)
Wesley Jay Kiner sounds great.
And one reader’s suggestion of the name Everett is nice too.
Hugo Logan!
I think of Avery as a unisex name, possibly because of Jackson Avery from Greys anatomy (I know it’s his last name but it still reminds me of that character). Also if Aubrey is unisex, certainly Avery is.
Also I think in a sibling set of Nora, Ruby and Avery, that I would be able to ascertain the brother in the group is Avery.
But I think Brooks is my favorite with siblings Nora and Ruby.
I love Swistle’s suggestions of Wesley (!!!) and Davis, and I wanted to suggest Graham and I see someone already has. Graham is lovely. Or maybe Quinn?
I really don’t want to see Avery fall away to the girls completely!
As for other suggestions, Jordy was also a contender for my nephew’s name. He ended up being Toby.
Avery is my favorite of your options because I enjoy the flow. I am sending more love for Wesley and I think Elliot is great with your surname as well.
Just pipin’ in to say that I don’t automatically assume that an Avery is a girl when I hear of one. So while it leans heavily Female, I think most people may be aware that Avery is used for both male and female. My only concern with Avery is that if you have future daughters named Nora and Ruby, I THINK i would intuitively assume that Avery is a girl. I’m not really sure why that is? I seem to recall a diagram that Swistle drew on a post a while back about a spectrum of female and male sounding names that might explain this.
Agreed with other posters that Beckett seems a little harsh with your last name, but of course no one will be going around saying “Becket Kiner” to him casually, so that would be a big deal to me. However, if your hubby is dead set against Beck as a nn, I don’t know if Beckett would be a good choice. It seems like you guys will be fighting that battle for the rest of your lives to stop people from saying “Beck.”
How about Parker? Hudson? Graham?
Yikes, just saw that you already ruled out Parker! Sorry about that! I see what you mean about it not going well with your last name.
Out of your top 3 I like Beckett Jay the most and Brooks next. Wanted to suggest Beckham. Beckham Jay is adorable and takes care of “bucket.” Have fun choosing! You have some great choices :)
I like Beckett best and I’m afraid Thomas Beckett makes this very clearly a well known historical name – sorry Grandma.
Do you like Brady?
It’d be especially weird on a Jewish boy, considering Thomas was a Catholic archbishop and saint.
Avery feels gender-neutral too me, despite the skyrocketing of Ava for girls. For whatever it’s worth, I have met girls and women named Logan. I agree that it doesn’t feel all that fair to have your husbands top 2 with his surname as well.
I never thought of Beckett as sounding like “Bucket” before, but now that I’ve seen it I can’t unsee it. If picking between those 3 I’d probably go with Brooks. I also think Brooks sounds best with Nora and Ruby.
I’m also Jewish and my grandmother’s middle name was F (also just the letter). I’ve never heard of this before but now I’m really curious about the history of it! Her parents were Yiddish-speaking immigrants and I think her Yiddish name was Fagerazel (fay-guy-ray-zul, meaning “bird rose”). She told me that as a kid she would alternate between different F English middle names for herself.
My favorite suggestions:
Wesley
Elliot (or Emmett or Everett, yes!)
Alden (love this name and it’s very underused, but would probably be also read as “Aiden”)
I’ll also suggest:
Julian (Jules as a nickname)
Ezra