Baby Girl Bailey, Sister to Oswald and Reuben

I feel bad sending this email as I know you must be busy, however I’m so clueless after months of fighting it I’ve given in and decided to ask for help with our little girls name.

We’re expecting our first little girl in April, and as exited as we are about her she has been the hardest to name so far. Our other two are Oswald Jude ‘Ozzy’ and Reuben Hugh ‘Reu’, their names were so easy to decide but now we can’t even settle on something while I’m 8 months pregnant!

The List I liked, but he vetoed…

Hermione
Sarah-Kate
Caroline
Scarlett
Matilda

The Names he liked, I said no to…

Alice
Clara
Mercedes
Simone
Story

The only name we both can agree of right now is Liliana, but neither of us truly love it to the point we want to use it! As we’re both quite firm in her middle name being Lavender!
We had a boys name all set out (William Atlas Bailey) but we’re expecting a girl so it’s no use. We’re saying this is our last, but we’ve said that after every baby so it’s not guaranteed!

Thank you so much for your consideration!
Em x

 

I notice the repeated sounds in the other two children’s names: oswalD juDe and then reUben hUgh. I wonder if it would be at all fun, just as a little game or exercise, to see if we can find a first name for your daughter that repeats one or more of the sounds from her middle name Lavender.

Ada Lavender
Adelaide Lavender
Aveline Lavender
Belinda Lavender
Claudia Lavender
Cordelia Lavender
Danica Lavender
Eleanor Lavender
Eliza Lavender
Elodie Lavender
Eve Lavender
Even Lavender
Evelina Lavender
Esther Lavender
Flannery Lavender
Florence Lavender
Geneva Lavender
Genevieve Lavender
Gwendolyn Lavender
Landry Lavender
Larissa Lavender
Linnea Lavender
Lois Lavender
Louisa Lavender
Lydia Lavender
Maeve Lavender
Marilla Lavender
Melody Lavender
Minerva Lavender
Miranda Lavender
Nadia Lavender
Sylvia Lavender
Valentina Lavender
Vera Lavender
Verity Lavender
Veronica Lavender
Victoria Lavender
Vivian Lavender

 

If I could ask each of you to reconsider a veto, I’d ask you to reconsider Clara, and I’d ask your husband to reconsider Matilda. Clara Lavender! Matilda Lavender!

Baby Girl Keegan-without-the-K

Swistle,

I’m a big fan of your blog. I’ve always loved baby names. My mom had a baby when I was 13 and I did so much research and reading. Lots of lists and suggestions. An obsession with baby names was born!

But now that I’m pregnant with my first child, due in July, I’m quite overwhelmed. We just found out we’re having a girl, and my husband and I simply can’t agree on THE ONE. We were totally aligned on boy names and had one picked out: Thomas, with my maiden name as the middle. It’s a classic with fun nickname options, sounds good with our surname, and is also a special honor name on my side of the family that hasn’t been used despite my many siblings and cousins. For a girl, we’re lost. We need your help!

Here’s where we’re at. We’re American, and our last name sounds like Keegan without the “K” (I took my husband’s surname and our children will take it as well). We’re drawn to a mix of traditional, vintage, preppy, and “new classic” names. We’re Catholic but not super religious; both pretty Irish, especially my family.

My husband has a one syllable name and didn’t like growing up without nickname options. For that reason, he’s very drawn to more formal, longer names with vintage and/or cute nicknames, and the nickname is a very important part of the conversation to him. I do like that style as well, but we can’t come up with a combo we agree on or that feels right. I’m also very drawn to classic/simple one syllable names, and even with longer names, needing nickname options doesn’t feel as much a “must” for me like it does for him. In fact, my name is almost always shortened, but I never took a nickname.

Names on my list:
Jane
Margaret (but no clear nn winner – will explain)
Frances
Eleanor nn Nora
Anne nn Annie
Georgia
Caroline
Paige

On his list:
Margaret nn Maisie (he LOVES Maisie)
Susannah nn Susie
Patricia nn Piper or Poppy
Hazel
Penelope nn Penny
Jane (but no nn winner in his mind – maybe Junie among family but would still go by Jane)
Frances (maybe if nn Fran or Frannie)
Beatrice nn Birdie
Caroline

Of the above, Margaret, Patricia and Anne would be meaningful honor names. Caroline would be also, but our relative with that name is currently childless and has expressed preference on saving it for their child — if we had her blessing that would be a strong contender. Oddly, it’s one name my husband likes the full name for. She would go by the full “Caroline.”

So, names we like but can’t use: Caroline, Elizabeth, Ellie, Emma, Claire, Charlotte, Catherine, Molly.

Names we’ve talked about for middle names: Celine, Cecilia, Caroline. (All meaningful. Celine and Caroline on my side, Cecilia for both of us.) Also Frances or Patricia.

Margaret feels like it should be the top contender. We’ve talked about Margaret Celine Keegan-no-K, a name that would honor three women on my side of the family that I love and respect very much, but we can’t agree on a nickname. I don’t know if I can get behind Maisie, my husband’s strong preference. It’s a very sweet name, and I like its Scottish/English roots given my heritage, but there’s a bit of a “dog name” association for me. It leans a little too cutesy for my taste, and I don’t know if I could use it for my firstborn daughter, especially if she truly went by that all of the time. Maybe? But I don’t know.

Maisie aside, we don’t want to use Meg, Meggie or Maggie for various reasons related to people we know, and I grew up with a dog named Daisy, so that’s out. I really like Margot and think it sounds great with our surname, but my husband isn’t a big fan and thinks it could be megapopular in the wake of Barbie. I could also be in favor of Mae but my husband vetoed that as well — he just doesn’t like it. Molly would almost definitely be our top choice if it weren’t my husband’s ex’s name; they dated many years and we don’t think it’s worth the eyebrow raising.

Beyond Margaret, I’ve also mulled over Susannah/Susie, another top contender for him, but I feel like it has a Country/Western/Southern vibe that doesn’t feel quite true to our northeast roots. I could see it for a second child, but for some reason it feels random for the first. Sigh. I wish there was a clear winner but I truly don’t know where we’ll land — our taste is close but not quite aligned, and my husband is pretty opinionated and set in his opinions. He doesn’t understand why I can’t get on board with the Maisie idea. And maybe I could? I want to love it — it would make things so much easier for us — but I just don’t. And in general, I have a tendency to be a people pleaser, and I’m worried I’m going to lose sight of what I like and want out of desperation for compromise and a solution.

I think we need to meet in the middle somehow, or move on from the “Margaret” mayhem altogether and consider different options from our lists or beyond, but I’m not sure what that looks like. I would appreciate any and all ideas or thoughts, from you and your readers!

Many thanks

 

In spite of my love for the name Margaret, I am going to advise putting it on the Wait list for now. It sounds as if you’re hoping to have more children, so there will likely be time to revisit it—but right now it feels as if it’s getting in your way: it seems as if it OUGHT to be perfect, when it’s not quite, and that’s causing some looping. Additionally, your husband is having some trouble understanding other points of view on the nickname, and it makes me nervous that Meg and Maggie and Daisy all have to be ruled out as nicknames, so how about we make things easier by thinking of Margaret the way we think of Susannah: as a good name to consider for the NEXT daughter.

Or, and I think this would be better by far: another option is to use Margaret, and agree that you can each use whatever nicknames you like best for her, without choosing one official nickname. Then your husband can call her Maisie to his heart’s content, and you can call her whatever you would like to call her, including Margot and Mae and Margaret, and when she’s old enough to write her name on her homework she can choose for herself. I particularly like the idea of you calling her Mae and your husband calling her Maisie, since those seem like they could just be shorter/longer versions of the same nickname.

And here I’d like to make sure all of us–but I am only actually wondering about your husband–realize that eventually the child WILL choose for herself. It’s perfectly reasonable for the parents to choose a preferred nickname and introduce it early to increase the odds of that being the choice—but it’s important to realize that, just as you never used the common shortening of your given name, and just as my coworker Liz overturned her parents’ decision to call her only-Beth-and-NEVER-Liz, a Birdie may chose Bea or Beatrice instead, a Maisie may choose Meg or Margaret instead, a Susie may choose Anna or Susannah instead, and so on. Once the child has been given the name, it’s up to them how to wear it.

I wonder if you two would like Josephine. Nicknames: Josie, Joey, Jo, Posey.

Or Cordelia. I like the nickname Delia, but Cory or Rory or Lia or Cordy would be options.

Georgia, with the nickname Georgie or Gigi.

Winifred, with nicknames Winnie and Freddie.

Matilda, with nicknames such as Mattie and Tilda and Tillie.

Meredith/Merrie.

Minerva/Minnie.

Rosemary, with nicknames Rosie and Romy, or she could go by Mary if she preferred.

Veronica, with nicknames Nica or Vinnie or Ronnie or Vera.

Anneliese, with nicknames Annie or Anna.

 

I see that you both like Jane, but the nickname issue stops him. I wonder if the two of you would also like the name June, and you could call her Junie, Junebug, Juniper, etc.

Another method is to use the first and middle initials: if, for example, you named her Jane Patricia Keegan-without-the-K, you could call her J.P. as a nickname. I went to college with a girl who went by K.C., and that seemed pretty cool and snappy.

Piper and Poppy are not typically used as nicknames for Patricia, and I think they might be a tough sell. That is, in theory they’re no further a leap than Maisie for Margaret or Jack for John, but in practice there is an enormous difference between “what the public has already become accustomed to” and “what the public has not.” I’ll note that Poppy could be a nickname for Penelope. I think of Piper as a standalone name, but the somewhat similar Pippa can be short for Philippa.

Baby Boy Weary-with-an-L

I am expecting a baby boy in June as a solo mom by choice and I live in the US. This puts me in the (potentially) enviable position of having full control over the baby’s name but all of the pressure, as well.

The most complicated factor is that I find my last name a bit tricky. It rhymes with Weary but begins with an L, not a W. I tend to find that rules out most, if not all, names beginning with an L and/or containing an L. Alliteration can be commanding, but a double L just feels hard to say.

As my own first name is rather long and formal, I’ve gone by a nickname almost my entire life. This actually steers me away from repeating the same pattern. I’d prefer a short and classic (but not overly popular) name. This baby will most likely be my only child, so I am not concerned with how the name could potentially go with a sibling’s name.

Girl Names I love:
Jane
Joan
Maya
Hannah
Maeve
Nora

Boy Names I like, but am not 100% sold on:
Finn
Max
Dylan (but does it work with my last name?)
Nolan (same as above)
Everett
Barrett (but I despise Barry)

Boy names I like, but can’t use:
Daniel
Jack
John
James
Jude
Mateo/Matthew
Luke/Luca/Luka

Thank you so much for your consideration!

Meg

 

I think Dylan and Nolan both work with the surname; I find Nolan a little harder to say with the surname, but not in a way that would rule it out.

I don’t think people will be inclined to use the nickname Barry for a Barrett, though it will depend on things such as your own particular circle, and on how naming trends develop: I have been seeing what looks like a return to Old School Nicknames (Marty and Mickey, to use two examples from my own circle), and it will be interesting to see if that grows/spreads or not.

On another post, commenter R mentioned that the name Barrett has been ruined by politics, and it took me a beat to remember the connection to the Supreme Court Justice—but, once I did, it was hard to forget. It is not the sort of connection I think has to ruin the name overall (that is, if I encountered the name Barrett on a baby, I would not think the name had been given as a political statement), but it definitely falls into the category of being the sort of thing I like to think of ahead of time.

My own hands-down favorite from your list is Everett. I think it’s great with the surname. And although I don’t normally put the child’s name with the parent’s name, and in fact discourage parents from doing so, I am breaking my own rule to say I like it with YOUR name, both with what I presume to be the full name and also with the nickname. Not as if it were a sibling set, which is what I object to when parents seem to be doing that, but just as a family. Margaret and Everett! Meg and Everett! Very pleasing combinations, both of them.

When I look at the names you like but are not 100% sold on, I see surname names and short snappy names. But when I look at the list of names you like but can’t use, I see more classic/traditional names, plus the short snappy names. I’m going to make a list that includes all three of those those categories, but also I’m going to include names that DO have nicknames, but to less of a degree than your own name: it feels to me like there’s a difference between Margaret/Meg and, say, Calvin-with-the-possibility-of-Cal.

Adam
Beckett
Bennett
Calvin
Dane
Dean
Declan
Drew
Elliot
Ezra
George
Grant
Griffin
Ian
Kellan
Malcolm
Merritt
Micah
Oliver
Quinn
Reid
Simon
Warren
Wilson

I went back and forth on possibilities such as Dean and Reid: are those smashing with the surname, or is the repeated vowel sound Too Much?

Especially since this will be your only child and you have full naming control, I wondered if you might like to look at your family tree for a name or surname to use as the first name; I’d look especially at the side of the family that didn’t contribute your own surname. Or this would be the perfect opportunity for any other honor name: an artist, a poet, an author, a scientist, or, yes, a politician.

Baby Boy Lynch, Brother to Natalie and Thomas

Hi there!

My name is Alexa! I am due in March with baby boy #2. My last name is Lynch. We had (and lost) a micropreemie in 2021 named Natalie Marlena. It was still so early, and we didn’t know what we were having—so we had both boy and girl names brainstormed. When I woke up in the SICU, I told my husband this name with 100% conviction. Just one of those weird gut things, I guess? I can’t say for sure this baby will be our last child, but based on my high-risk pregnancies, it is likely.

Our first son was born in 2022 and his name, Thomas (Alexander), floated around on our lists for a while—first as a middle name, but we committed to the name about a month before he was born. We call him Thomas, and my approach to nicknames is that they must be OK’d by the bearer and/or develop naturally. (Also, how hard is it to say ‘Thomas’ instead of Tom or Tommy?!) Alexander is homage to me, Alexa. My husband’s name is Donovan. Neither of us go by nicknames, and my husband has grown out of his childhood family nickname.

Our main challenge is that my husband is one of nine children, and I have three sisters with six children of their own. We both come from large families beyond that. I tell folks that I’ve probably heard all the names before, or we know someone, etc. I tend to dislike the most popular or trendy names. I guess Thomas is “old-school popular” to me. (Side note, husband has two siblings that are “juniors” of dad AND mom already!)

I was stuck on Alden for our first son before switching to Thomas. I liked how it was a sort-of mashup with Alexa and Donovan, but my husband has been repeatedly “meh” on it. Desmond was our first frontrunner with this baby—my husband has always loved the name and after a friend used it in 2017, we tabled it for our first son. I like how uncommon it is, but I can’t get over the fact that it was already used by a former friend. It passes the vibe check, but I don’t love it.

Right now the leading name is Tristan, but I think it’s weirdly alliterative with Thomas already. We like Matthias as a middle name, similar to husband’s middle name (Matthew). There are 25+ names on the veto list, and I think I’m getting overwhelmed.

As I read back through your blog, I’m interested in your perspective! Each post I read has names with merits, or that I can reconsider in the right light. Either way, I think I need a fresh take. Thank you so much!

 

I am inclined to look for another old-school popular name, like Thomas: a name that FEELS common, and yet there aren’t many in the classrooms. A name that, the last time it was common, every single person with that name went by the standard nicknames, leaving the full name feeling fresh and unexpected.

Andrew
Daniel
James
Joseph
Joshua
Martin
Matthew
Nathan
Patrick
Peter
Philip
Stephen

I am particularly drawn to Daniel and Stephen: I have known numerous of each, all of whom went by Dan and Steve, none of whom went by Daniel and Stephen. I don’t know if the -l/L- of Daniel is an issue at all; I didn’t notice it until I started to make my usual little sounding-it-out arrangement: Daniel Lynch; Thomas and Daniel. Stephen Lynch; Thomas and Stephen. Other possible sound issues: if Andrew DID go by Drew, does Drew Lynch sound like drool inch? if Philip DID go by Phil, do we have an -l/L- issue?

These don’t fall into my “old-school popular, all of them went by a nickname last time around” category, but I also suggest:

Adam
Calvin
Elliot
Emmett
Ethan
George
Gideon
Jeremy
Owen
Simon

I realize I may have just listed 20+ names straight from the veto list. And certainly none of these will be new to you. But for a sibling group including Natalie and Thomas, I am looking for something more along the lines of “SURPRISINGLY fresh” (i.e., the name John doesn’t seem as if it would have any freshness left after generations of use—until you encounter it on a kindergartner) as opposed to something new and exciting that would be a jolting change of style. I suspect what is needed is not for a name to stand up and slap you, but rather for a name to grow on you sneakily, until you realize you have been thinking of the name warmly and affectionately and now wish to squeeze a baby with that name.

How did the name Thomas change from a name knocking around as a possible middle name to a name you wanted to squeeze on a baby? Do you remember how it went from “Sure, pretty good name” to being THE NAME? I think it’s very likely something similar will happen this time around.

Finding the right middle name may help: sometimes hearing the full three-name combination brings a name from “Sure, pretty good name” to “YES.” (Watch the initials: one wouldn’t want to accidentally name a Franklin Matthias Lynch.)

Calvin Matthias Lynch
Daniel Alden Lynch
Elliot Alden Lynch
George Matthias Lynch
James Alden Lynch
Joseph Tristan Lynch
Martin Matthias Lynch
Peter Tristan Lynch
Philip Desmond Lynch
Stephen Desmond Lynch

Baby Girl Carrot-with-an-M, Sister to Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, and Cl@ire

Hi Swistle!

It’s crazy to think that I started reading this blog when I was expecting my first, and now I’m catching up to you with five kids. How time flies! We are due in April and our last name sounds like Carrot with an M.

Our daughters are Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, and Cl@ire. And baby 5 is a girl!

I think somewhere half-spoken in my mind, I had been thinking that it would be fun to mix it up this time: daydreaming about learning how to do a cute little boy haircut and… Well, anyway, I could still totally learn how to give cute haircuts.

I think what I need to get excited about little girl 5 is a great name. But it’s a catch-22, Swistle; I need a great name to help me get jazzed about twenty more weeks of pregnancy and a new baby, but I’m just so blah about naming this time around. Every name on our list has already been rejected before. What I really need is for someone else to help me look at names afresh, (which, isn’t that what so many of us write in to ask?)

In the early days of baby naming, I had a lot of angst about naming because my husband and I both cared about names, but our styles seemed very different, (see previous letters here and here). In the end, we’ve settled on a naming compromise: we take turns naming the baby with full veto/suggestion power from the other person. This has worked pretty well for us!

He loves saint names out of the top 1000, and he chose Avil@ (sounds like Avalon) and Ze1ie (rhymes with Ellie). I like what I jokingly call Hollywood Pirate names: Will, Rose, Theo, Jack, Hope, Kate. Short, familiar, and snappy. I also like names like Anneliese, Vivian, Genevieve. I chose R0se and Cl@ire for my names.

We love nicknames, and use them interchangeably with our daughter’s names: Avi, Rosie, Ze1ie-Lou (from middle name Louise), Clara/Coco.

It’s his turn to choose a name, but he also seems surprisingly uninterested in the task this time around and he keeps asking me for suggestions. The only part I’m excited about is using my name Gabrielle as the middle name. We used my husband’s name Michael for Cl@ire’s middle name, (at my insistence because I just loved it and wanted to honor him,) and I am feeling that same excitement for using my name this time.

His suggestions:

Hildegard (vetoed. Hildie is a cute nickname, but the name seems harsh to me.)

Anastasia (but we both like the nickname Ah-na, which honors my Grandma. So far everyone we’ve tested it on says Annastasia and Anna; it feels like an uphill battle. The full name seems very long to me.)

Blaise (This has been our boy name for 9 years, but I just don’t know for a girl)

 

My suggestions he vetoed:

Vivian

Sylvie

Anneliese (name of his cousin)

Hope (name of his mom’s cat)

 

Our list so far:

Genevieve (He said maybe and likes the nickname Evie. Not great with middle Gabrielle.)

 

Hmm, well, I don’t know. Can I admit to you? Secretly, I feel like you may not choose this letter because the names are too “boring”. Recently the Swistle name posts that got me excited were for names far outside my usual naming style: this one was awesome, and I thought about possible names for ages! This recent one was fun too. Am I having a midlife naming-style crisis and need to name this kid Oak or Maverick? Or should we name her Genevieve and that is still exciting? Help me, Swistle, before I go crazy overthinking this.

Thank you!!

Gabrielle

 

I suggest Mathilda, which includes the nickname Hildie as well as Tilda, Tilly, Mattie, etc. It’s a saint name, and it’s alliterative with the surname in a way I find it pleasing to say. Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, Cl@ire, and Mathilda.

Belina. I found it in the Saints section of The Baby Name Wizard, so I am suggesting it without knowing the story of this or any of the other saints; I don’t know if that part matters to the selection. Belina strikes me as distinctive and unusual but accessible; my one hesitation is about whether it could be too similar to Ze1ie, but for myself I come down on the side of no. Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, Cl@ire, and Belina. Nicknames and pet names absolutely abound: Bella, Belle/Bel, Lina, Lee, Bee, Bina, just so many fun sound combinations to make.

I wanted to suggest Annika (I have an Annika in my circle, and although people will sometimes GUESS ANN-nika, once they HEAR ON-nika it seems to click into place for them), but it seems too similar to Avil@.

Blaise, for me, does not pass the “Would I want this name for myself?” test—especially if I had four sisters all with highly feminine names. I think it would accidentally communicate that you were hoping for a boy. I find, in fact, that even seeing it on the list is giving me a surprisingly strong feeling of indignation. It makes me want to pointedly offer counter-suggestions such as Felicity (lucky) and Evangeline (good news) and Beatrix (blessed).

Bonus: Felicity and Beatrix are both saint names, so I do suggest them, earnestly as well as pointedly; I love them both, and will give them their own spaces below so they don’t get lost in the “Swistle says no to Blaise” section:

Felicity. Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, Cl@ire, and Felicity.

Beatrix. Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, Cl@ire, and Beatrix.

Oh, WINIFRED is a saint name?? You know I am not going to miss the opportunity to suggest that favorite! Avil@, R0se, Ze1ie, Cl@ire, and Winifred!! …I see I also discovered this while answering a previous letter, and then forgot. This is one of the glories of aging: fun fresh surprises, again and again!

I like Genevieve a lot, and this is subjective but I really like it with the middle name Gabrielle. I think it’s intriguing the way the G initials match but are pronounced differently, and it gives you the nickname G.G./Gigi, which is especially nice if Evie seems too close to Avi. There’s also Ginny.

Baby Boy Mouslie-with-an-H, Brother to M@ry Gr@ce (Gr@ce)

So hopeful to get your thoughts on our naming roundabout! I love reading your posts so much and know that you would provide some much needed insight for us.

We are expecting a little boy in the spring! We are so excited to welcome him, but fear he will leave the hospital nameless and be known as “baby boy Mouslie” (with an H) forever. We have one little girl named M@ry Gr@ce, but we primarily call her Gr@ce. M@ry is an honor name, and we love both the combo and the nickname and just everything about it. Boys names are proving to be so much harder! Which is confusing for me since I am a self-proclaimed naming guru since childhood. I guess it is different with your own child?? Either that or I’ve lost my touch. Or, it is the fact that I actually have to agree with another person on a name instead of coming up with one on my own. That does make a decision a bit more difficult!

My husband has two and only two names that he loves: Sawyer and Sh3pherd. I quite like Sh3pherd too actually but I’m not brave enough to use it as a first name. We are religious but it feels like it could be almost sacrilegious to me if that makes sense?? I think I might be thinking too much about it. We love the nickname “Sh3p” as well. Here are a few names I love that he doesn’t: Jude, Curren, Ansel, Graham, James, Abel, Samuel. We both say we like softer sounding names. I think we should be going with something more classical to match our daughter’s name. Hmm… soft and classic, sounds easy, but we are just so picky! We’ve come down to two final contenders (for this week anyway…ha). The0dore Sh3pherd and Augu$t Ev3rett. We both like them enough to use either of them I think. Augu$t has always been top of our lists, but just not sure we like it as much as we used to anymore. Don’t like any nicknames for it- but not sure we can force it to be the name he is called by forever. Same with The0dore- I love the full name so much and would call baby boy by that exclusively, but he only likes this combo if he’s called Teddy or Sh3p. Neither of us are very fond of Th3o. I would be ok with using the full name and primarily calling him Sh3p, but I feel like we already did the middle name nickname thing with one kid and it would be confusing to do it again. Or would it??

We would love love love advice! We are also not closed to suggestions though I’m pretty sure we have combed through every name in the universe by now. But I am all about seeing something in a new light if there’s something that hits you like a bolt that you think would work here!

Thank you thank you thank you and I promise to update once a decision has been made.

 

Oh, I FULLY agree: the secondary problem is applying the name hobby to an actual child, and the PRIMARY problem FOR SURE is having to cooperate on the name with another entire human—sometimes a human who has not put in ANYWHERE NEAR the years of time and effort. Well, and also: having to work with the particular surname. All of these things factor in. It’s  a wonder any of us manage to choose a name at all, but PARTICULARLY those of us who CARE about names! My mother-in-law, whose baby-naming technique was to use for each baby the first name that came to her mind, plus a middle name that made a pleasant mild bridge between first and last, was probably overall a happier and more content baby-namer than those of us who struggle. (Nevertheless I firmly believe our way is superior.)

I grew up very religious, so I will weigh in on the Sh3pherd issue with my one data point. I would say that on its own, or with a sibling name such as Hadley or Morgan, the name Sh3pherd does not make me think of anything religious: it feels like a surname/occupational name, and I too love the nickname Sh3p. But: as soon as the name is combined with the name of any other cast member from a Nativity play, I’m afraid the association is rather strong for me. M@ry and Sh3pherd doesn’t sound so much sacrilegious as imbalanced: why is one child a lead, and the other generic supporting cast? Even combined with Gr@ce, Sh3pherd gives me the feeling of a THEME, though perhaps only when I’m primed by thinking of M@ry and Sh3pherd first. I do think it’s fine as a middle name.

While I am dishing out opinions, I will say that I think once you’ve done one “kid going primarily by middle name,” it’s easier to do a second one: you’ve already gone through the training process with your entire extended circle, and now they are familiar with the concept. But “kid going by nickname of middle name” feels a little harder to sell: at that point, I start to wonder if the name shouldn’t be sent back for more workshopping.

You don’t have another classic/traditional honor name you’d like to use, similar to M@ry? A dear Thomas or Peter or Stephen in the family tree? And then perhaps with a classic-yet-contemporary one-syllable-and/or-low-nickname-possibility middle name, which you’d call him? I’m wondering if leaning into a more fully parallel name would help here.

Andrew George Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and Andrew George; Gr@ce and George
James Louis Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and James Louis; Gr@ce and Louis
John Nolan Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and John Nolan; Gr@ce and Nolan
Paul Emmett Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and Paul Emmett; Gr@ce and Emmett
Simon Henry Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and Simon Henry; Gr@ce and Henry
Stephen Miles Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and Stephen Miles; Gr@ce and Miles
Thomas Elliot Mouslie-with-an-H; M@ry Gr@ce and Thomas Elliot; Gr@ce and Elliot

Or of course I would suggest any of those middles as firsts instead, if you don’t have (or decide not to use) another honor first-name. I’m going to go ahead and put them in their own list:

Elliot
Emmett
George
Henry
Louis
Miles
Nolan

Paul in particular stands out to me. Soft but solid/strong, classic, warm. Paul Mouslie-with-an-H; Gr@ce and Paul. Paul Sh3pherd, Paul Ev3rett.

I agree that it can be risky to use names if you dislike the nicknames. It’s definitely easier to go by the full name than it used to be, but it’s impossible to know what the child themselves will prefer. I don’t know if it helps, but we’ve had a number of commenters mention that they were very opposed to a nickname until their child started going by that nickname, at which point they did a complete 180 on the issue and can hardly remember what they didn’t like about the nickname. On the other hand, I had a co-worker Liz whose parents had wanted her to be Elizabeth/Beth and truly disliked the nickname Liz, and it had been ten years since the nickname change and Liz said her parents still weren’t happy about it. So I suppose it depends on the particular parents/child/nickname, and I suppose most of the time it’s not knowable in advance.

I think an Augu$t might end up going by Gus, and so it would be good to contemplate ahead of time how you feel about Gr@ce and Gus; it’s a lot of one-syllable G- and S-sounds.

I like Ev3rett as a first name here. It goes nicely with M@ry, M@ry Gr@ce, and Gr@ce.

Baby Girl V.

Hello Swistle! I’ve read your blog for a long time and am so excited to finally be able to write. We’re expecting a baby girl in spring, our first, and all the possibilities have me feeling somewhat deer-in-the-headlights. Our last name starts with a V and is Greek. My taste runs towards simple, classic girl names, generally on the shorter side.

I adore the name Lucy, called Lulu, but my 4-year-old niece is frequently called Lulu, among other nicknames. The actual name is very different (think, like, Niloufar nn Lulu) but we live close to my SIL and plan for the cousins to spend a lot of time together. Would it be cute to have two Lulus? Or would it be confusing, or will SIL feel like I’m stealing an aspect of her name?

Here are the other names on our shortlist:
Molly (feels a teensy bit more nickname than name, but husband doesn’t like Mary and other long forms seem too contrived.)
Iris (initials would be IV so we could call her Ivy. Or are IV initials a problem? I don’t feel like there’s much potential for teasing there: ha ha, you’re named after a…universal medical device…? Wow, your parents must really like the number four?)
Frances (nn Frankie/Cissy)
Adela (husband’s frontrunner. I like it but am not jazzed by any of the nicknames.)
Virginia (nn Ginny)

Names I like but can’t use:

Vera (sounds a bit like Mila Miller with the surname. I actually sort of like the combo, but wouldn’t want to do it to a child)
Anne/Annie (husband thinks it’s too plain)
Esme (pronounced es-may. I love it but don’t like the Twilight connection, and can’t quite bring myself to hand her a lifetime of correcting spelling/pronunciation)
Faye (husband thinks it’s too short)
Charlotte (adore the nickname Lottie, and it’s a total “I liked them before they were famous!” situation, but now that the name is so popular it’s a definite turn-off)
Blythe (husband thinks it sounds too religious, despite that…not really being a thing? I guess he associates it with virtue names like Faith and Mercy)

If we had a boy, his name would probably be Benjamin (Benji) or Miles.

For the middle name, we were thinking either his mother’s name (Eirini) or my mother’s name (Colleen). Since the Greek tradition is to name babies after their grandparents, I like the little tie-in to his heritage. But I also love the name May and think it would make a cute middle if she ends up being born in May (due date is right on the borderline). Or Bellamy? It was my great-grandmother’s maiden name, and I will shamelessly admit to having zero attachment to this great-grandmother (or even, you know, ever having seen a photo of her) but loving the name. Iris Bellamy. Lucy Bellamy. I’m also tempted to go fully self-indulgent and give her something totally out there like Odyssey or Snow, since middle names come up so infrequently anyway.

I’ve thought about names for so long, but now that I’m faced with naming an actual baby, nothing seems to just click! I’d love some suggestions and input from you and your readers.

Thanks so much,
Sam

 

It is hard to know how your sister-in-law would feel about you duplicating the nickname. Some people have an attitude of “The more the merrier!” when it comes to their children’s names, and others use words such as “copying” and “stealing.” If your sister-in-law is married to one of your siblings, I would start by consulting with that sibling; if instead she is your husband’s sister, I would start by consulting with him, and perhaps asking him to consult with her. Well, but with this caveat: if you ask, then I think you should go with what the sister-in-law says. That is, one possible route is to NOT consult with her, and to go ahead and use Lucy/Lulu, and chance the consequences; but if you go the route of asking her ahead of time, and she says it would bother her, then I think using the name anyway would cause a huge issue.

Another option, if you plan to have more children, is to save the name Lucy/Lulu for a future child: a bigger age gap can make it a lesser issue. Also, it gives you another, less-pressurey way to ask: you can say, after the first baby is born and named, “One of the names we were considering was Lucy/Lulu,” and see how the sister-in-law reacts. Relief? Disappointment? Give her some time to get used to the idea, and then perhaps bring it up again and see what she says.

I think at this point Molly is a stand-alone non-nickname given name: we have done posts here where we have discovered that even among name enthusiasts, a large number of people are unaware of the Mary/Molly/Polly connection—or they are aware of it, but they don’t expect to encounter it anymore. I am in that latter group: I know Molly and Polly were once nicknames for Mary, but if I encounter a Molly or a Polly, I assume it’s the given name and not a nickname for Mary. Because it appeals to you to do something alliterative such as Vera V., but you don’t necessarily want to assume a child would find it as appealing, I wonder if you would like to alliterate the first and middle? Something like Molly May V., or Molly Bellamy V.

You have seen me mention this many times before, and now it is your turn to have it mentioned to you: I suggest thinking ahead to future sibling-name combinations. Molly and Lulu would be a lot of L sounds. Cissy and Lucy would be a lot of C/S/Y sounds. Iris and Frances both end in -s; would that be okay, or would you want to choose only one or the other? Would using Ginny rule out a later Benji? Adela is quite a different style than Lucy and Molly and Ginny, though I think it goes nicely with Iris. Which seems more like your kids: Adela and Iris, or Lucy and Molly? I see a fair number of nickname options in your list; would it bother you to have some kids with names/nicknames and some with only names, or is that a non-issue? How do you feel about repeated initials? Would using Molly rule out using Miles later?

From context I am making the assumption that the children will be receiving their father’s family surname. If that is the case, and if you decide to also follow the Greek tradition of using grandparent names (in this case, as middles), I strongly urge you to use YOUR parents’ names, to help balance the name a little. Father’s surname + father’s cultural naming traditions + father’s parents’ names is severely weighted toward the father’s side. If you DID decide to use husband’s surname + husband’s cultural naming traditions + husband’s parents’ names, I would expect nothing less than for you to get 100% full say on the first name, up to and including choosing a name your husband was meh about—and even then, it would not be anything like a fair division.

Another option would be to use various family surnames from your side as middle names: Bellamy, yes, and your own family surname if that would work nicely, and any other family surnames you like. FILL the birth certificates of all your children with representatives from your family tree! Make it so the one repeated family surname from your husband’s side feels SKIMPY!

Okay, let’s look at first names! I like Molly, especially if you are thinking Lucy and Ginny and Frankie. That’s a spirited bunch. I would add Polly as another to consider. If the name I see in your email address is your own family name, I lovvvvvvvve the idea of it as the middle name with Polly. Absolutely smashing. But it would also work nicely as a middle for a future Miles or Benjamin.

I also like Amalia with the nickname Molly, and wonder if Amalia would be similar to Adela for your husband. Though I think for me, having to keep explaining that it’s Amalia not Amelia would be more than I would want to take on.

I think I.V. initials are fine; it does seem difficult to find an inroad for teasing. I am in fact drawn to the idea of naming her Ivy and her initials would be I.V.; that has a charming little flair to it. I think I would enjoy the fun of that, if it were my name; it gives me a fizzy happy feeling. The name Iris is already so similar to Ivy (long-I, two syllables, blatantly botanical) that it feels confusing to use the nickname Ivy with it.

Frances/Frankie is adorable, I think, and I like that she has good nickname options depending on what sort of person she feels herself to be: she can go with Frannie, Frankie, Frank, Cissy, or she could even punch it up and go by Francesca.

I have loved the name Ginny ever since reading a book in elementary school with a protagonist named Ginny. I wonder if the given name Virginia would still lead to teasing at this point in the timeline. DO people still go tee-hee over the word virgin, or are we past that? And then there is that silly catchy Billy Joel song that still plays pretty regularly on the radio. I wonder if you would like Genevieve or Geneva or Imogen.

Adela stops me in part because I am unsure of the pronunciation/emphasis. Is it like the singer Adele, but with an -ah added to the end, like ah-DELL-ah? I suppose it must be: it’s not likely to be, say, ADDLE-ah or addle-LAH. Okay, I can picture it now: sort of the rhythm of Isabella, but without the Is-, and with a D instead of the B. Yes, that’s nice. I think my main concern is the absolute mountain of Addies currently on the market. This is going to vary regionally, of course, so it may not pertain to your area, but in our school system we have so many Addies and Maddies that they can’t even use surname initials (too many repeats) and are instead known as, for example, Art Maddie, Green Addie, Maddie-who-dates-Ellie, Maddie-who-dates-Aidan, Theater Addie, my-friend-Melissa’s-Maddie, etc. Would it work to use the nickname Della, or is that too large a percentage of the original name?

This makes me think of Delia and Dahlia as possible options. I encountered a Delia in the wild and it made a very pleasing impression. Her mom at one point called her “Deels,” which isn’t the kind of nickname you’d write on a homework paper, but sounded very cute when said aloud.

If you enjoy some alliteration but Vera is too much of it with the surname, I wonder if you would like other V names. Violet/Lettie (similar to the Lottie you liked with Charlotte), Vivian/Vivi. Verity probably isn’t going to fly if your husband doesn’t like virtue names; I love Victoria and Veronica but I’m not keen on the nicknames.

If you like Anne/Annie but they’re too plain for your husband, there are SO MANY delightful longer forms that can then be nicknamed Anne/Annie. Annabel, of course—that’s one of my own top favorites; for awhile it looked as if it were going to gets super common, but then it backed off. I wonder if Annabel would be a nice combination of Adela and Anne/Annie? Or Annika. Annalise/Anneliese. Gianna. Liana. Lillian/Lilianne/Lilyanna. Hey: what about Lilianne, nicknames Lili and Annie? Lili is similar to Lulu but doesn’t step on toes.

I wonder if you would like other names with the -oo- sound of Lucy/Lulu. Julia/Jules. Juliet/Jules. Ruth/Ruthie/Rudy. At some point, Gertrude/Trudy is going to come back; is it getting to be time? Same with Judith, maybe with the nickname Jude instead of Judy this time around. Susanna/Annie. June/Junie. Juniper/Junie. Ruby, but no nicknames come to mind; maybe it would work to combine it with the middle name to make a nickname, like Ruby Bell.

While looking for more like Lucy/Lulu, I found Mabel. It feels like it combines May and Adela, and has some of the feel of Lulu.

I do sometimes wish I’d gone more Odyssey/Snow for my kids’ middle names. I didn’t have the nerve at the time. When I reconsider it now, I still prefer the names we chose, so I guess what I slightly regret is that I didn’t prefer the more whimsical/fun options. When my kids were younger, we were friends with a family whose kids had middle names that were very similar to Sparkle, Galaxy, and Flower, and I spent some time wishing I’d had more FUN with our kids’ names.

Baby Names that Got Away

Every so often, I like to revisit the topic of baby names that got away. In the time since we last talked about it, some of us will have moved from the baby-naming stage of life to the stage after that; some of us will have changed our lists; some of us will have had a fresh experience of trying to name a baby and finding we couldn’t use a name we wanted to use.

I find I don’t PINE the way I used to. I remember folding laundry and actually weeping because I’d missed the chance to name a baby Anastasia. That sort of thing doesn’t happen anymore. Now it’s more as if I am rooting for my favorites to succeed elsewhere: someone PLEASE name a baby Millicent! Winifred! George! Frederick! Alfred!

I do have secret hopes that some of my favorites will be used for grandchildren—and I hasten to say that I will not be PUSHING or even SUGGESTING the names, I just mean it would be fun if it happened to work out that way. But I know from long observed experience that in general the grandparents DO NOT see their favorites used on the grandchildren, and in fact grandchild-names tend to offer the grandparents an opportunity to practice mindful acceptance: the generation gap is difficult for names to transcend. My parents winced a little (though with awareness and acceptance) at the name Henry, a name that to them was not only elderly but nerdy, everyone’s scrawny great-uncle Henry with the liver spots and ear hair. I remember my mother-in-law suggesting names such as Dawn and Cherish: absolutely appropriate for the time when she herself was having babies, but no longer the right thing for the next generation.

Well. What are the names you are currently weeping into the laundry about / rooting for others to use?