Middle Name Challenge: Arlo Roman _____ Wismar

Tracy writes:

Our son was born at home on May 29th and we named him Arlo. However we are stuck on the middle names.

We have three other children: Isabella Grace, Sophia Pearl, and Soren August Leonard (going both by Soren and Auggie).

We would like to use the middle name of Roman to honor my side of the family. My maiden name is Romano.

Two other family names we have considered are Joseph and Sepp.

We also love the name Theodore and considered it for Arlo’s first name.

So my question is does Arlo Roman Joseph/Theodore/Sepp Wismar work? They all sound off to me.

Any other suggestions for us?

I have two favorites: I like Arlo Roman Theodore Wismar best for the pure sound/flow of it and because you’d get to use one of your almost-his-name choices—except that I like Arlo Roman Joseph Wismar best because I like family names and I like the sound/flow of THAT combination TOO (and it coordinates with the 2-2-2-2 rhythm of your first son’s name). Arlo Roman Sepp Wismar is fine, but I like the other two better.

Let’s have a poll over to the right to see what everyone else thinks! [Poll closed; see results below.]

Poll results for “Which is your favorite combination?” (297 votes total):

Arlo Roman Theodore Wismar – 134 votes (45%)
Arlo Roman Joseph Wismar – 125 votes (42%)
Arlo Roman Sepp Wismar – 25 votes (8%)
I can’t decide – 13 votes (4%)

Baby Girl or Boy Sch____, Sibling to Ava; A Question of Rhythm

9 Replies

Anna writes:

My husband and I are expecting our second (and last) child this fall. So far, the baby name game has been a bit of a disaster. Our last name starts with “sch.” Our first daughter is named Ava, which we love (even though it is common, it suits her perfectly). Her middle name has four syllables, with the stress on the second syllable. That creates a rhythm that my husband adores: dat da da dat da da “sch.”

So, after consulting your post about 4 syllable names with the stress on the second syllable, we have been considering the following for a girl:

Stella Penelope

Stella Alexandra

But we aren’t 100% sold on Stella. We also like Ella and Clara (Clara to a lesser extent). We like names that end in “a” but that aren’t too sweet sounding. I love Fiona, but my husband is less sold on that one… but I figure with a three syllable middle name with the accent on the second syllable he still gets his “rhythm!” Anyway, between looking for a particular rhythm and trying to find a feminine yet strong/fun name – not to mention a last name that is a bit harsh sounding – we are in a pickle.

For boy names, well, we can’t even begin. I LOVE the name Jack, but that is an absolute non-starter for potential teasing reasons. If our first child was a boy, she would have been Ryan David – not because we loved the name, but because we couldn’t come up with anything we liked better. I also like the name Joshua, but we have too many relatives with that name in the area. We tend to like strong, somewhat traditional (but not too traditional) names for boys and rhythm doesn’t matter to my husband on this one. Surprisingly, we both like Finn, but feel like it is too much with our last name.

Here’s hoping you have encountered rhythmic namers before and can help!

The first girl name that comes to mind is Lila. Ava and Lila. I like Lila Penelope.

From your list I like both Stella and Ella (Stella seems to me to better fit the strong and not too sweet preference), but (St)Ella Penelope gives me an “(St)Ella Penella” rhyme, and (St)Ella Alexandra has an (St)Ella-Alla, neither of which are dealbreakers (and in fact may tie the names together nicely), but I think I’d go back to the name list for something like (St)Ella Magnolia or (St)Ella Victoria.

I’d also suggest Ruby. It doesn’t end in the A sound, but I think it hits a similar style mark as Ava: more sass than sweet. Ava and Ruby.

Eliza is one of my favorite sass names. Ava and Eliza.

If you like Finn for a boy but it’s not quite right with your surname, would Griffin work better?

If you like Joshua but there are too many in your family already, I wonder if Jonathan would work. It has a similar sound and rhythm.

If what you like about Jack is the snappy sound of it, I wonder if you’d like Declan? It takes away the teasing, and I think Dec Sch___ is far enough away in sound that it doesn’t bring it to mind.

Or Eric might work. Or Alec.

Or maybe something more like Sam or Joe? Joseph would be a nice alternative to Joshua.

Or instead of Ryan, Owen or Liam or Ian or Gavin? I like how Ian is another three-letter-two-vowel name like Ava, and I like how Gavin repeats Ava’s V-sound.

Baby Girl or Boy Randall, Sibling to Lola Vaughn

6 Replies

Jessica writes:

I am 38 weeks pregnant with our second child, which we do not know the sex of. Our first child, my lovely daughter, is named Lola Vaughn Randall. I absolutely love her name. She is named after my husbands maternal grandmother, a holocaust survivor and strong matriarch–unfortunately I did not have to pleasure of meeting her before her death.

I’m one of three siblings, my brother is Ian and sister is Briana. Growing up, there names were unique. I remember it being many years before I’d met another Ian or Briana. As for us, we’re happy with the idea of two children. So this will be my final pregnancy.

So here are our considerations:

Girl: 1. Harlow 2. Harper

Boy: 1. Greyson 2. Reed 3. Cole 4. Mason (This was a big contender, but now I’m not crazy about the association with Khloe Kardashian’s son.)

These are all first name considerations, I haven’t been able to come up with middle names at all. I really love my daughters first and middle combination, but I’m having a hard time coming up with any middle names.

Any help will greatly be appreciated! Thank you.

From your girl name list, I prefer Harper. Lola and Harlow is a little difficult for me to say, with the repeated “low” sound.

I’d add to the list:

Anya
Audra
Aurora
Bianca
Bridget
Colette (maybe too much “ole”)
Dahlia
Geneva
Georgia (Georgie or Gigi)
Gianna
Iris
Jade
Jolie (maybe too much “ole”)
Margo
Maxine
Nadia
Olive
Ruby
Scarlett
Silvie
Simone
Thea

My favorite from that list is Bianca. Bianca Randall; Lola and Bianca. Maybe Bianca Sloane or Bianca Grey.

From your boy name list, I’d eliminate Cole for a similar reason as Harlow, but this time for too much “ole” sound (Lola and Cole starts to make me think of cola).

I think I’d also eliminate Mason, not because of the Kardashians but because according to the Social Security Administration it’s now the #2 most popular boy name in the United States, while Lola is significantly less common.

I hesitate slightly with Greyson. I think it coordinates well with Lola, but Grayson/Gracen/Graycen is used often enough for girls that it’s starting to make me a little nervous. It’s not a big deal (I’m about to suggest Grey, after all, and that has the same issue), but it’s something I’d want to think about ahead of time. I also think that just as people currently say they don’t want any of the “ayden” names (Aidan, Jaden, Hayden, Caden, etc.), they may soon be saying the same of the “ayson” names. I think I might go straight to Grey. Grey Randall; Lola and Grey. Or maybe to Grady. Grady Randall; Lola and Grady.

So that makes Reed my top choice from your boy name list, if that’s not too much R and D with the surname. Reed Randall; Lola and Reed.

I’d add to the list:

Cade
Cason
Dean
Edmund
Ezra
Flynn
Gage
George
Grady
Grey
Hayes
Hugh
Hugo (might be too hard to say with Lola)
Jude
Malcolm
Rhys
Thompson
Truman
Wilson

Hayes seems like it would make a particularly good middle name. Something like Malcolm Hayes Randall, maybe, or Cason Hayes Randall. You could also use Mason as a middle if you decide not to use it as a first: Flynn Mason Randall, or Dean Mason Randall.

Name update! Jessica writes:

Boy, you got the post up just in time. Our son was born at 12:53pm on Saturday, June 2.

The input was a lot of help, as well as the comments. We decided on Greyson Miles and will call him Grey.

I did love the suggestion Harlow Grey for a girl & will always be a little sad we didn’t get to use that, but now it’s out there.

Lola Vaughn loves being big sister to Greyson Miles and there is nothing sweeter than hearing her say his full name.

Thank you again.

Baby Naming Issue: Will the Rising Popularity of Mila Make Milo Seem Too Girly?

29 Replies

Katie writes:

I LOVE your blog and we need some major baby-naming help! My husband and I are 2 weeks away from having our first child, a boy – due June 5th – and are completely stuck on names! I have been thinking about names for a while now and did not think I’d be in this situation. We just can’t make a decision!

My name is Katie and my husband is Daniel, but goes almost exclusively by Danny (and has since he was very young). Our last name sounds like “Lawson”. Our original criteria for names was…

1. Not super popular (Our last name is relatively common and I don’t want my child to have a common first and last name.)
2. Not girly at all (I would prefer not to have a name that could crossover and ‘go girl’. I know this is hard to predict, but would like to avoid if possible.)

Our current front-runner is Milo. We both really like it, but are worried now since all the buzz about the rising girl’s name Mila. Will the popularity of Mila make Milo seem more girly and/or more like an afterthought? Do you think Milo is too soft? We like that it is uncommon, but not ‘made-up’ or new, but can’t decide if it is just right for our baby.

Other names in consideration are…
– Henry (I love, but husband does not… thinks it sounds too ‘rich’ or ‘fancy’, also it may be too common)
– Silas (I’m not sold on this one)
– Lucas/Luke (too common?)
– Walter/Walt (I love, but husband thinks it is too much of a potential tease-magnet..)
– Everett (will it cross-over to the girls?)
– Hayes

Names that we like but can’t use due to friends/family/etc: Evan, Owen, Cole, Elias, Arlo, Jack (due to the Titanic association with our last name), Leo (slight Titanic association…), Chase

For the middle name, we are hoping to use a family name. Options are Michael, Charles, Robert, David, Walter, or Matthew (We would consider these for first names, as we’d love to have even more family connections in the name, but most of them are too common for us.)

Oh and we do hope to have more kids. For a girl, our top pick is Blythe which is pretty rare, so I am not sure how some of these names would match up with that…

So, as you can tell, we are kind of all over the place… Any advice?!? What do you think of Milo??

Thank you for reading.

Milo is one of my own favorite boy names, and was on the Final Three list for my youngest, so it is safe to say I am greatly in favor.

Some of the warning signs for a name “going girl” include: a gentle sound to the name (Noah, for example); having an easy feminine nickname (Ellie for Elliot, for example); the boys being done with it for now (Sydney, for example). Milo has the first but not the second or third.

I think sometimes having a feminine version of a name can encourage people to use the boyish version for girls—but other times it protects the boyish version. To use dated examples, having Paul and Paula seems to make people less likely to use Paul for a girl, not more. Same with Carl/Carla, and Robert/Roberta, and Eric/Erica: it makes it additionally confusing to use the masculine version for a girl, since a feminine version already exists. Instead of the masculine version seeming androgynous, it seems fully boy. [An anonymous commenter brings up a great current example: Oliver and Olivia.]

But does this apply with more modern versions? There’s Kyle and Kylie/Kylee/Kyleigh—and Kylie is rising as Kyle falls. As Kylie is used more and Kyle is used less, what happens to Kyle for girls?

2000: 53 female Kyles; 11,964 male Kyles
2001: 56 female Kyles; 10,566 male Kyles
2002: 45 female Kyles; 10,059 male Kyles
2003: 61 female Kyles; 8,646 male Kyles
2004: 74 female Kyles; 7,818 male Kyles
2005: 38 female Kyles; 6,680 male Kyles
2006: 47 female Kyles; 6,147 male Kyles
2007: 41 female Kyles; 5,346 male Kyles
2008: 30 female Kyles; 4,694 male Kyles
2009: 34 female Kyles; 4,162 male Kyles
2010: 33 female Kyles; 3,560 male Kyles
2011: 57 female Kyles; 3,233 male Kyles

It’s kind of hard to see a big obvious pattern, isn’t it? The name Kyle is going steadily and obviously down for boys, but it’s hopping all over the place for girls.

So how does all this apply for Milo/Mila? Well…that’s why I’m just sort of talking around it, without seeming to make any clear points: I can’t tell. Maybe the increasing popularity of Mila for girls will increase in a parallel way with Milo as the sounds come into style together. Maybe the increasing popularity of Mila will make some parents think of Milo for girls. Maybe the increasing popularity of Mila will make Milo even more solidly a boy name.

If you want my personal guess, it’s that some people will always use “boy names” for girls—but that Milo is not likely to become “a girl name.” There were fewer female babies named Milo in 2011 than there were female babies named Jonathan (12 vs. 20).

And we’ve already had a test period for this as the name Miley/Mylee/Myleigh came into style without causing Milo to become popular for girls.

But the rising popularity of a similar name for girls may make some parents wary of the name, making it less common for boys. Every time a name comes up, someone will mention that they know a baby girl (or three) with that name. There might be hardly any female babies with the name compared to the number of male babies with the name, but the impression sticks: people say “Watch out!”—and parents do. And other parents think, “It’s going girl? I didn’t like it for a boy, but I do like it for a girl!” [Thanks, Nedra, for pointing out a major data fail: something was amiss with my files, and the number of female names in the example I originally used here was significantly different than I wrote. I’ve fixed the error here by taking out the specific example, and I’m looking into finding out what went wrong.]

So far there’s no indication that Everett is going to turn into a girl name, either. The Social Security database shows 14 female babies named Everett in 2011, and another 6 named Everette. That’s nothing, relatively speaking: even Henry was given to 7 girls, and 22 were named Matthew. The similar name Evan was given to 99 baby girls. (Hayes was given to 286 boys and 16 girls.)

If it were me, I’d consider Milo and Everett both safe choices, and I think both go well with Blythe. If you want to play it extra safe, your traditional middle name options are great for that: if the unexpected occurs and the first name becomes popular for girls, there’s a good completely masculine middle name to go by instead. (Or maybe not: 9 baby girls were named Charles in 2011! And another 9 baby girls named Robert! And 18 named David, and 36 named Michael!)

Other names that sprang to mind while writing the post: Simon, Isaac, Oliver, Warren, Emmett, Felix, Malcolm.

Baby Boy or Girl Ritchie, Sibling to Alexander and Genevieve

31 Replies

C. writes:

We are expecting baby #3 (the last baby) on June 8 (scheduled C, so no later than that) and we do not know the sex. We are having issues deciding on names – there are a few contenders for a girl and no standouts for a boy. Our last name is Ritchie.

Our son is Alexander Maxwell and our daughter is Genevieve Olivia and I absolutely love both names. Alexander is the only boy’s name my husband and I agreed on and it is my husband’s middle name, so it was a no brainer. Genevieve is always what I wanted to name a daughter and thankfully my husband loved it also. It is also a namesake for my grandfather (Gene). Both middle names were last minute choices that we thought fit well; there are no namesakes or other meanings associated. Both children go by their full first names and we hope that will continue. As we are Catholic, we also like that both are names of Saints.

For a boy… when we were discussing names for our first child, my husband was focused on mythology names (Nike, Mercury, Hercules) and now admits he is glad I put my foot down with an emphatic “no”! He is now on the trend of surname as first name (Lincoln, Freeman, Hamilton) and I think it would be similar to his fleeting love affair with the mythology names. I do not like surname as first name unless it is a family name (it would not be in our case). I also do not think fits in with the more traditional (and Saint) names we have for Alexander and Genevieve. I am fine with these as a middle name. Husband also likes Joseph; I’m not crazy about it but would be ok for a middle name. The problem is that there are absolutely no boys names that I love. The few possibilities we are both ok with are: Gabriel, Julian, Matthew, Nicholas. He prefers Julian, but for some reason, it feels too feminine to me. I could be convinced otherwise. We also cannot think of a middle name that goes with it. … I love Nicholas, but it is the name of a cousin who passed away as a young adult and was kind of a wild child.

For a girl… Calliope and Penelope have always been on our girl name list. We have recently decided we also like Josephine and Caroline. I also like Imogen, but husband does not. My husband’s first choice is Calliope (he wanted to name Genevieve that, but the namesake won out), but I am less sure – it makes me think of a cacophony and the very loud carnival musical instrument by the same name. I also can’t think of a good middle name to go with any of the girls names. Mei is a contender – Mei means beautiful in Mandarin, our children are 1/4 chinese, we currently live in Hong Kong, and my Grandmother’s middle name was “May”. Problem is part of our family is from the deep south and we envision them calling her “Callie May” or “Penny May” which would be a nightmare since we don’t like nicknames. It would also be the only single syllable middle name of the kids. Penelope Caroline? Josephine Calliope?

As I typed this, I googled Calliope and it turns out she is a Saint and her feast day is June 8 (the day this baby will be born). Fate? If so, then help with a middle name!

So, husband prefers Julian or Calliope with middle names unknown. I am not convinced but do not have a better suggestion and they are growing on me (Julian Ritchie does have a good ring to it). What are your thoughts?

Name update! C. writes:

Thank you so much for posting our request; we very much appreciated the input from your readers.

Penelope Grace Ritchie was born on June 8. Even for a few hours after she was born, we still could not decide between Penelope and Calliope (reader comments were split between the two!). Ultimately, we chose Penelope because we thought it was ageless, whereas Calliope was little girl cute.

Since we did not know the sex, if anyone is curious, we had decided on Julian Matthew for a boy – this was by far the clear winner from the comments!

Thank you so much for your help!

Baby Boy Nolan, Brother to Evan

20 Replies

Marie writes:

My husband and I are expecting our second son in early July and have yet to find a name for the kid. With our first son it seems like we just happened across a name and loved it from the beginning whereas this time he loves one name and I love none. Our first sons name is Evan; our last name sounds like Nolan, but with an R instead of an N. He loves the name Bennett and I have mixed feelings about it. Some days I like the name (and almost commit!) but other days I think it sounds a little soft or something. Also, I don’t like nicknames and would never call him Ben and wouldn’t want others to either – I don’t think I want that battle.

Names that I like are Owen (but I think it doesn’t go well with our last name), Henry and Emmett (but I’m not sure how I feel about the double E sibling name). My husband likes Emmett but doesn’t like Owen or Henry as much as Bennett. The middle name will be either Thierry (pronounced TYAIR ee), honoring both my husbands grandmother Terry who passed away and my French heritage or Cruz (we got married in Santa Cruz). Girl names that we considered before we found out the baby was a boy were Emerson (surprisingly I had no problem with that double E sibling pair) and Aislinn. Evan decided to arrive 3 weeks early so I’m starting to panic that the new baby will be born and we still won’t have a name for him. I just keep waiting for something to hit me and to just know that we have found his name but I haven’t had that kind of “yes, this is it!” moment yet. Should I just commit to the name my husband loves (Bennett) but I only like (most of the time)?

I do think that if one parent can’t think of any other name he or she likes better, and the deadline of The Baby Is Here has arrived and there is no more time to keep looking, it can work out well to go with a name that’s “fine” with one parent and “TRULUV4EVA!!” for the other.

But I also think two strikes against a name is a problem, and the Ben battle is a second strike: people now are much less likely to go by nicknames, but if you’re very opposed to them I think it makes for a happier life to find a name without such a natural one.

(A possible third strike is that when I say “Evan and Bennett” aloud, there is something that seems odd about it to me. I can’t put a finger on it. Maybe the four similar vowel sounds in a row, combined with the repeating N-sound and the matching rhythms of the names?)

If you do decide Bennett isn’t going to work, it’s important for your husband to shift mindsets: the hunt can’t be “You trying to find him a name he likes better than Bennett,” but instead needs to be “Both of you looking for the name you like best out of the names that are not Bennett.”

Emmett seems like an excellent alternative. It has a very similar sound, but no natural nickname. My one hesitation is that it seems very similar in sound to Evan. I don’t think it’s too similar to use, but it’s getting close. (I’d also suggest Everett, but that one does seem too similar to me.)

Elliot seems great to me. It does repeat the E, but it doesn’t have a natural nickname. Evan and Elliot. I like that a lot.

Other possibilities that sound similar to Bennett:
Barrett
Beckett
Bryant
Corbett
Garrett
Jared/Jarret
Merritt
Wyatt

Some of these don’t work very well in style with Evan, but I like Evan and Garrett, and I like Evan and Jared.

Departing from the sound of Bennett and focusing more on sibling names for an Evan, I suggest Keegan. I am freshly pleased with this name because I met a Keegan at a child’s birthday party last weekend, and he was adorable. Evan and Keegan.

I also mention Derek, because it was the name agreed on by another couple I know who had a similar situation. Evan and Derek.

More possibilities:

Adam
Alec
Brendan
Colin
Eric
Grady
Jeremy
Jonathan (nickname)
Kyle
Liam
Mark
Mason
Milo
Nathan (nickname)
Parker
Ryan
Simon

Name update! Marie writes:

Well, better late than never right? Bennett Thierry was born one day after his due date on July 12. He was nameless for awhile after he was born but then I started to see how maybe he actually kind of did look like a Ben. For now, while we can control it he’ll go by Bennett and then when he’s older my heart won’t break if he decides to go by Ben. Interestingly, after we finally told everyone his name my dad told us that since the baby was born he kept thinking that his name was Ben (but for Benedict) so that was pretty cool. And then we also found out that my mother-in-laws husband had a grandfather whose name was Bennett. So after all that crazy stress the name Bennett actually ended up being pretty special. Everybody loves the name and we get compliments on it all the time. Now after all is said and done we love the name Bennett for our little guy and couldn’t imagine anything else for him. And bonus I have a favorite name for a potential third kid (Leo) which of course guarantees that if we actually have a third kid it will definitely be a girl. A huge thanks to you and all your readers who weighed in!

Baby Girl Townman or Balls

38 Replies

R. writes:

I have been reading your blog for a while now, and didn’t expect to be writing to you so soon. I am expecting my first baby this summer. I am having a girl. The baby’s last name will be either mine (similar to Townman) or my boyfriends (Balls). I am only seventeen (unfortunately not planned) but I am trying to be the best mom my baby could have. My boyfriend and I have a few problems. 1. We can’t agree on any names 2. I want the baby to have my last name.

My list:
Rose (I like more classy, less common names)
Violet
Leilani
Annelise

Boyfriend’s List:
Ava (Likes trendy, popular names)
Sophia
Isabelle
Olivia

What we agree(kinda) on:
Charlotte(both like but is getting a little popular)
Grace(I like but too common)
Amelia(same as above)

Names we can’t use:
Cora(this is the only one I would have considered)
Lily
Faith
Lauren

That’s just the start of our issues. I really want my girl to have my last name. I love my boyfriend but I’m worried that we might split after the baby is born. Plus, his last name is Balls. He and his family always get teased about it. (unfortunately he has an uncle Harry Balls) He thinks that the baby should have his last name because that is usually what happens. It seems like we can’t agree on anything!

Thank you!

It sounds to me as if it would be better for the baby to have your surname. While it’s true that it’s common for children to have their father’s surname, it gets less common all the time—and in many cases, I think it makes more sense for the baby to have the mother’s surname. If your boyfriend’s surname weren’t such a challenging one, I might suggest using his family name as the baby’s second middle name, or hyphenating it with yours. As it is, perhaps it speaks poorly of my character to say that I might use the various reasonable concerns inherent in the situation as my excuse to get out of having to use his surname for the baby.

I am encouraged, looking at the lists of names: the two of you have similar styles, and the differences are mostly a matter of commonness. If he already likes Olivia and Sophia, I can see leading him gently to something more like Violet—as opposed to what we’d be facing if his favorite girl names were Ryder and Storm.

Let’s start with his choice of Ava and see if we can work outward to something more to your tastes. Eva would be beautiful, as would Eve. Or Audrey, or Ivy, or Genevieve.

From his Sophia, I suggest Fiona, Josephine, Phoebe, Phillipa, Simone, Stella.

From his Isabelle, I suggest Isadora, Annabel, Maribel, Rosabel, Clarissa. Annabel especially seems like a good compromise between your Annelise and his Isabelle.

From his Olivia, I suggest Liviana, Eliza, Molly, Lydia, Linnea.

If you like Cora but can’t use it, is Clara too close to be considered? That’s one of my favorites for classy sweetness, along with Eliza and Jane.

Or Nora? Too close to Cora, or okay?

I wonder if Emmeline would work. My guess is that he’d like Emma, but the longer variation is much less common and has more the flavor of Annelise from your list.

Name update! R. writes:

Hi everyone! Thank you to everyone who commented and for all the ideas! Im sending this right now so I don’t forget later.

So in the end, we decided give our baby my last name. My boyfriend has had teasing in the past, and he decided she didn’t need to get teased about her last name. We then tried to encorperate Balls into her middle name, by choosing Annbel.(Bel is close enough to Balls for us, and there are Anns on both my side and his side)

Her first name took a while. He actually like alot of the suggestions, but thought they were a little too “out there”(I’m not sure why, I guess names outside the top ten are out there for him!) But there was one name that he really liked- Josephine. I loved it alot because it honored my dad, Joseph, who goes by his middle name most of the time. It just so happened that she was born on my dad’s birthday! Josephine Annabel Townman was born July 1 at 7 lbs 9 oz. Our little girl is so sweet! Thanks again everyone!

Baby Naming Issue: Cohen

87 Replies

Jaime writes:

I’m really hoping you can help us. This is my second email to you, my first was simply a cry for help in finding a boys name but now I really need help.

Please keep in mind that we live in Canada so some of our baby name choices and their popularity are different than the US.

My husband and I like names that can be said easily, that aren’t too trendy but that are not too different. We tend to like names that are on popular lists. Our daughter, Addison, was born 4 years ago and in Canada at the time it was less popular. Now it has gained popularity and I’m ok with that. So names that are perhaps number 48 on the top 100 is fine by US.

Here are some that have been on the list:
Carter
Carson
Landon
Emmett
Rylan

So here’s the problem. We like the name Cohen a lot it seems to be the best fit for us so far. It has taken us a long time to get to a name we both like. When I googled the name and it’s meaning it sounded fine, “priest” in Hebrew. Then I read a little further and read that it can be controversial in some ways because it can be seen as disrespectful among the Jewish community. In Canada it is currently number 35 on the Baby Centre website. So it is clearly used often enough and it is apparently on the rise. If I look the name up on US websites some lists don’t even have Cohen in their top100.

I’ve read forums of people who don’t think it’s big deal while others are appalled at the disrespect and ignorance that people have shown in naming their babies Cohen. I am certainly not in the business of offending members of any Jewish community nor do I want to set my son up to offend others simply by his name.

Please help.

The Cohen issue is not one I was familiar with, and I cringe at the thought of wading through all the angry-toned search results I’d have to read to get a grasp on the issue—but I have a general policy about all such things: if there is some risk of offense or other ickiness involved in using a name, and if you are not yet bound to that name by blood and tears, it is usually better to keep looking.

So in this case, if your maiden name were Cohen, and if since childhood you’d wanted to use the name for a son, and if coincidentally you and your husband were huge David X. Cohen fans, and if you’d gone the whole pregnancy assuming you’d name your son Cohen and then in the delivery room a nurse pointed out the issue, then I would be like, “Meh! There seems to be some sort of issue with this name, but it looks to me as if no one is actually using it with the intent to offend, and it’s coming into style because of all the Rowans and Owens and surname names, and pretty soon it’s going to be popular enough that there won’t be any offensive connotation anymore at all, and especially with religious/cultural issues (i.e., where it’s an issue in one religion/culture but not an issue in others) it’s really hard to know at what level of someone else’s being-offended we need to take the responsibility of avoiding it, and it sounds as if it Means Something as a surname but not as a first name, so just go ahead and use it, and if anyone remarks on it you can explain your reasons.”

Instead I will say that if it’s just the first name you’ve found that you can agree on, maybe that’s not enough reason to take a risk with something like this. It’s hard to evaluate the disrespect/offense in something unless it affects oneself: it always seems like other people’s touchy areas are “touchy areas,” whereas one’s own touchy areas are Big Outrageous Serious Things, Symbolic of Deeper Problems. For myself, I don’t think I’d find it worth it: if I’d used the name Cohen oblivious to the controversy, I wouldn’t go out and change it, but if I knew about it ahead of time I’d steer clear just to avoid the headache/fretting.

On the other hand, if time goes by and the end of the pregnancy is nigh and you still can’t agree on anything else, return to the first point and maybe just go ahead and use it. You’d be using it as a rapidly-rising surname name, not as an attempt to offend.

Does anyone know if there are the same issues with other spellings? For example, could you use Coen like The Coen Brothers, or is that just as potentially offensive? It’s too bad Cowen looks so bovine.

If you like Cohen, maybe you’d like:

Bowen
Callum
Camden
Calvin
Cason
Colin
Conan
Nolan
Owen
Rohan
Rowan
Soren

And let’s have a poll over to the right to see if we can gauge how serious/well-known this issue is. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Poll results for “The Cohen Issue” (476 votes total):

I knew; it’s a deal-breaker – 134 votes (28%)
I knew; it’s not a deal-breaker – 36 votes (8%)
I didn’t know; it’s a deal-breaker – 113 votes (24%)
I didn’t know; it’s not a deal-breaker – 171 votes (36%)
I can’t decide – 22 votes (5%)

Name update! Jaime writes:

Remember me…the Cohen issue? That sparked quite the conversation. After reading all 84 comments, we couldn’t even fathom sticking with the name. So we went back to the drawing board. In fact I went back to a name I liked right away, and one that you suggested, and gave my husband some time to explore the meaning. In the end we agreed! Callum was born last week. I can’t imagine him having any other name. Thank you for helping us and thank you to everyone who commented.

Baby Girl K., Sister to Owen Grant and Olivia

22 Replies

K. writes:

Our second baby girl and third child is due any time and we can not decide on her name. My doctor was ready for me to go to the hospital today, but I am worried that I havent decided on her name!

Our 4 year old son’s name is Owen Grant (he goes by both names) Jakob and our 2 year old daughter is Olivia Katharine Grace. Grant is a family name as are all three of Olivia’s names. They are actually my mother’s name, my grandmother’s and my great grandmother’s so I always knew I what I wanted to name a daughter and it helped when she was born looking just like my grandmother.

While we were deciding though, I was really torn that Olivia was a top 10 name, but I decided that it was a family name and I had always wanted to use it so I went with it anyway. I love her name and do not regret it, but because Sophia is not a family name, I worry that it will just seem like I picked a really common name. (I certainly dont want to have the Jennifer of her generation) BUT, I think that Sophia has a similar feel to Olivia (elegant, classic, regal) and I do like that it has the O that both of the other kids have.

The fact that both of their names began with O was simply chance. I always knew I wanted to name a baby girl Olivia and I just loved Owen. I always knew I would use Grant. So, I am definitely not looking for a name that starts with an O. I do want a name that ties to their names though. Olivia also goes by Livi, Liv and Livia- we use all the variations and love them. Owen Grant loves his name and will correct people who dont use both.

So, our finalists are:
Sophia Elizabeth Kate (my Great Grandmother was Katharine Olivia and she went by Kate)
Sophia Elizabeth Blair (Blair was my the middle name of my maternal grandfather but my husband doesnt totally love it)
Vivienne Elizabeth Kate (Elizabeth was the name my mother had wanted to use for my middle name and I always remember knowing that growing up- she definitely had naming remorse even asking if i wanted to change it as an adult)
Vivienne Elizabeth Blair

I think my husband doesnt care nearly as much if Sophia is ultra popular so he has a slight preference for it, but he is open to either name.

The last two eliminated from our short list were Lila and Corinne. My husband’s last name starts with K so I felt like Corinne K_____ was too much of a mouthful and the Corinne kind of got swallowed. Also I really dont care for Cora or Cory as nicknames. (Also I realized that our children speak spanish with our nanny and our nanny couldnt pronounce Corinne easily at all while all the other names seemed fine in spanish).
Livi and Lila are sweet together, but where we live I know as many or more Lila’s as I do Sophia’s so I decided between the two, Sophia was my preference.

I like that Vivienne is not as common but I wonder if its a little too much to have Livi and Vivi for nicknames. I thought we might also be able to use Evie for a nickname for Vivienne.

I also like Leighton and Ashton but I worry that because they are general neutral, they just dont have the same feel or elegance as Olivia’s name.

My husband does not like any of the nicknames for Elizabeth which is why it isnt a first name contender.

I notice that other people mention their heritage, ethnicity, etc. We are basically of European heritage and both of us and both of our kids are blonde. We are hoping this little girl might have red hair which also runs in the family.

Any help you have would be great!! Then I would feel like I was ready to go to the hospital.

Thank you!

Sophia is a masterful choice: well-coordinated with Owen and Olivia in both popularity and style, and with the additional satisfying touch you mention of not starting with an O but still having a strong O sound. Olivia and Vivienne have so many short-I and V and long-E sounds in common, they almost seem like scrambled-letter versions of each other; and I agree that Livi and Vivi is too much. Sophia is indeed a popular name, but it would take three to four times the current number of Sophias to match the popularity of Jennifer at its peak.

Elizabeth is a great middle name: the family story, but also being beautifully coordinated with Olivia’s middle name Katharine.

I could go either way on the second middle name: it’s not quite balanced to have a second daughter named for the same namesake (especially for a great-grandparent)—but on the other hand, Kate is so perfect as the coordinating name for Grace, and your husband prefers the name Kate to the name Blair. If you didn’t mind changing the rhythm, I wonder if you’d like something like Sophia Elizabeth Lila or Sophia Elizabeth Corinne. Or you could use Sophia Elizabeth Vivienne and get both name options in there. Or are there any other female family names, maybe on your husband’s side?

There might not be time for this, but it may also be helpful to have a poll over to the right with your four candidates, so let’s do that. [Poll closed; see results below.]

SophiaVivienne

Baby Naming Issue: Duplication Used to be Fine With a Friend, But Now Isn’t

30 Replies

M. writes:

So this is my story…its long and full of drama!

I have a 20 month old little girl. When I was pregnant with her, my sister in law and close friend were both pregnant as well. Of course, we all had our list of names. When we started coming out with our names, we noticed we had a few of the same we liked. My top choices were: Gianna, Lola, and Isabella. Well, now all the babies are born. My daughter is Gianna, my sister in law named her daughter Marybella, and my friend named hers Lola. My friend has since moved to Miami, we see them about once a year.

I have a long history with loving the name Isabella and anything Bella. My sister in law knew that and from the beginning, she told me they were going with Cecilia. Then, all of a sudden, it changed to Marybella. I was a little upset because the whole time she told me something else, and if I had another girl, she would be Isabella or Bella.

Here we are, and I am pregnant with twin girls and my sister in law is pregnant with a little girl as well, we are 2 days apart in our due dates. I was stoked as I thought I would get to use all my favorite names when I pregnant the first time! I was going with Lola and Isobel (nn Bella). I am 27 weeks pregnant BTW. I was set on those names. My sister in law didn’t care, because she knew when she named Marybella, that if I had another girl, Bella would be in the name. BUT my friend who lives in Miami, cares, I live in Texas. I decided to go ahead and talk to her about us choosing the name Lola for one of the twins and she wasn’t happy. She said she didn’t own the name, but that she wanted something unique and put a lot of thought into that name. When I was pregnant with Gianna and we were thinking about using Lola and they were too, they didn’t care. Now it’s an issue. I don’t know what to do because I was set on that name to go with Isobel. From the first kick I felt, I called her Lola. Am I wrong to use that name? I’ve tried to think of variations where we could use the nn Lola, but I’m so torn! HELP!!

Hm. It is hard to know what to advise here, because it seems to me that it should be fine for you to use Lola (your friend knew it was one of your top choices even before she named her daughter; your friend now lives far away; the name Lola was #221 in 2009 and #211 in 2010, so not an ideal choice for uniqueness; you guys had agreed you didn’t mind if you both used the name), but it is not clear in this way to your friend, and that’s the important person for it to be clear to here. And she’s said she doesn’t want you to use it and, depending on how you brought the topic up with her (did it sound at all like asking if it were okay to use it?), may now feel even more upset if you go ahead and use it despite her feelings. Tricky situation.

It’s possible and understandable that she may have changed her feelings about sharing names in the last year or two, and/or since having a child with the actual name (as opposed to just considering candidates). And there could be other things we don’t know: maybe your daughter was born first, and although she knew the name Lola was on both your lists and she wasn’t going to fight you for it, she had decided not to use Lola after all if you ended up using it. Or maybe her daughter was born first, and she’d thought she was okay with name duplication until she found herself holding her breath hoping you didn’t use the name as well. Or maybe she would have thought it was kind of fun if you’d both had daughters named Lola the first time around, but is less keen on it with a 2-year spacing.

These things can get kind of complicated, is where I guess I’m going with this. And it’s easy for an outsider to say “Psh, you should use it! It’s fine! She shouldn’t be upset!”—but of course much harder when you’re on the inside and it’s your actual friend and actual relationship and “should” doesn’t seem to be applying as expected.

So in the meantime, I’d be looking at other similar names to see if there were any I liked as much; there are so many good ones with similar sounds/styles:

Cleo
Delilah
Elodie
Ione
Isla
Leila
Lila
Lyra
Marlo
Mila
Nola
Paloma
Rose
Selah
Stella
Thea
Viola
Willa
Willow

If you don’t like any other name as much as you like the name Lola, you may need to make the decision to go ahead with the name despite your friend’s feelings about it. In which case I think I would be understanding of her feelings, but would gently persist in saying that the name had been on my list since the first pregnancy, and that I was so pleased to get a chance to use all three of my favorites, and that I hoped it would be fun for us to each have our own little Lola.