Emily writes:

I am looking for some inspiration and help in naming our third child, who will also be our 3rd daughter.  This will be our last child.  Our baby isn’t due until October so i know there is a lot of time left, but my husband and i are just not able to come up with a short list. (well not really).

My older daughters (who are 10 and 8 yrs old) are named Olivia Margot (middle name is my middle name) and Lila Grace (middle name is an aunt’s name).

My name is Emily and i like my name but wouldn’t give it to my kid (no juniors for us). I use my maiden last name.  Our kids are basically Irish, Swedish & Italian. Olivia has strawberry blonde hair, fair skin and green eyes;  Lila is golden blond haired, has tan skin, and green eyes.  my hubby and I are green eyed too  – obviously we don’t know what this new kid will look like but you get the picture.  I don’t think we want anything that [at least in our area] is very Italian themed (Gabriella, Adrianna, Carmela  Lucianna etc.).

We came up with Lila because we loved the name Leilani in Hawaii and were inspired. We decided we couldn’t pull of Leilani (neither of us have any ties to Hawaii) so we considered Lily and arrived at Lila (still love it!) (we pronounce it L-I-la (long I sound like ICE). Olivia always sounded lovely and had a nice sound to it with Margot (we picked this name more easily than we did Lila).

We LOVE our daughters’ names and would like something similar for daughter #3 – feminine, somewhat traditional, not too trendy (not interested in Taylor, Tyler, Skyler, Cameron etc – no offense to those who like those, just not my cup of tea).  I don’t think i’d ever be brave/bold enough to name my daughter anything like Piper even though it’s cute on other people’s kids.

Some names that have peaked my interest are Valentina, Sophia, Lena, Julia (hubby doesn’t like this), daisy (he doesn’t like that either), Katie. We rejected Valentina b/c we don’t like “Val” or “Tina” as nick names.  And probably that is a lot of name for a kid. it’s also similar to our favorite pizza place so we crossed it off (Valentina’s! pick up or delivery?) :)  My husband’s current name that he is tolerant of is Sophia.  I am less tolerant of it due to its popularity, but it’s a nice name. I say tolerant b/c neither of us are willing to say we’d actually give that name to our daughter.  I don’t want something too old either like Hazel or Mathilda (i do like Victoria and Elizabethe and Emma (hubby doesn’t like those but especially doesn’t like Emma).  These still aren’t making it to a short list or anything, but maybe will give you an idea.

We do like the way these names sound – i think we like the ‘A’ sound at the end. not a requirement though.  I like what both my kids’ names mean, but that is not how we picked them.  We also considered Scarlett and Charlotte.  eh… we just aren’t feeling anything. i don’t want Isabella, b/c i simply know too many of them.

I like the idea of glamorous hollywood names like Sophia Loren & Ava etc. but don’t want to be so trendy. I also like the feeling of a Southern name (at least i think I do – not as in Bobby Jo though).

If we were having a boy, the names I like are (in no particular order) Christian, Jake (my dad’s name, but i also really like it), Mark, Max and Sean.

As you can tell i am all over the map. :(

Many thanks and I like your blog!

A. writes:

I’m wondering about the etiquette around a certain naming issue that I’m having.

I am a teacher and one of my students (a girl) goes by an “old man” type of nickname. It’s kind of like she goes by “Elliot” — a name that is identifiably masculine, but that doesn’t sound ridiculous on a girl. Unlike “Elliot,” however, this name is not popular for boys or girls — in fact, it’s never been very popular. The most popular that it was was #273 and that was back in the 1800s. It hasn’t even been in the top 1000 since 1968. The long-form of the name (as opposed to the nickname) was given out more often, but even it barely ever broke into the top 100 (and this girl is definitely not going by the long-form of the name). This student has a common and feminine name, but she’s gone by this unusual male nickname for as long as I have known her and everyone (students, teachers, even her mom) calls her by it.

In addition to this girl being a student of mine, her mom is also a teacher at the school — so her mom is a colleague of mine. And our staff is small and all the babies that have been born to staff members are welcomed with a big announcement to the whole school community.

So here’s my problem. I LOVE this girl’s nickname and would love to use it as a middle name for a future daughter. But I don’t know whether it would be TOTALLY awkward. It would be obvious to everyone involved that I’d never thought of the name (or even heard of it, really) before meeting this student. Would that be embarrassing? Like I’m naming my kid after a student? Would the colleague/mom of the girl feel weird about it? She’s not my best friend at work and she can be kind of critical, so I don’t know how she’d react.

And I would feel weird for the student as well. The student is well-known and popular, but also pretty shy. I’m pretty sure I’m not her favorite teacher, so it’s not like she’d feel super-honored or anything. It’s already pretty awkward for her to be the kid of a teacher and have friends in her mom’s classes. I’d hate for her to feel even more awkward when a teacher names her kid after her!

Just as a reminder, I’m only thinking of using this name as a middle name — not as a first. But it would be impossible to hide the middle name from the staff and students at the school — and awkward to try! What would be the best way to go about this? Should I just give up on the name? Talk to the mom in advance? Talk to the girl in advance? What would make the most sense?

Thanks!

I have two different answers. One is for if you’re right now pregnant with a baby girl, and the other is for if you’re not.

If you’re not, I think what makes the most sense is waiting to see if it will be an issue at all. Maybe by the time you’re naming a baby girl, neither the student nor her mother will be at your school, or maybe you’ll be at a different school where no one has ever heard of the student. Or maybe by then you won’t still want to use the name, or maybe the other parent won’t want to, or maybe you’ll have changed surnames and there will be a clash, or maybe your favorite first name will sound bad with it. Or maybe you’ll only have sons. Or maybe by then the student’s mother will have said wistfully in the staff room, “I just wish there were OTHER girls with that name! She loves her nickname but hates being the only one!” Or maybe you’ll have a boy first, and this student will end up babysitting for him and become so special to your family that it will make perfect sense to give your next baby her name as a middle name.

If on the other hand you’re currently pregnant with a baby girl (or you’re pregnant and not finding out the sex until the birth), and if the other parent also wants to use the name and it’s great with the first name and last name, then let’s see if we can figure out a way for you to do it.

I agree it seems like the awkwardness/weirdness of it is not avoidable. Our goal, I think, is to see if we can reduce it to usable levels. I’d start by scouring your family tree and the other parent’s family tree. I mean, SCOUR it. Go back as far as you’ve got, and search every twig. Let’s say this student’s name were Clementine, and she were going by Clem. Search to see if you have ANYTHING like that in your tree, either first names or surnames. Clement? Clemence? Clemmie? Clemens? Clemmons? VanderClem? ANYTHING. If you find anything, you can now say breezily “It’s a family name.” And as everyone looks at you a little incredulously, you can add casually, as if suddenly realizing there could be offense taken if it sounds like you’re NOT naming after your colleague’s daughter: “And of course, Clem Johnson is such a nice girl, it definitely helped the name catch my eye!”

If there’s nothing in the family tree, I think I would take an intermission and consider again whether the awkwardness/weirdness is worth it. We all have these names, I think, where we really really want to use them, but there’s some reason we just CAN’T: name of husband’s ex-wife, name of our daughter’s half-sister or step-sister at her father’s house, name of a celebrity, name the other parent hates, name that is hilarious/embarrassing with the surname, etc. I mean, it’s not that we literally CAN’T use the name, but at some point the issues overwhelm it and we reluctantly cross it off. These names become excellent conversation material later, especially with other name enthusiasts: “I wanted to name a son after my dad James SO BADLY! So of course I end up marrying someone with the last name Bond.” or “I’m STILL mad at Alan for hating the name ____! That’s been my favorite name since I was a CHILD!” And it can be fascinating to the child to hear what other names were considered.

Are there any names very similar to the nickname, that you might like just as much? This is where my stand-in name isn’t going to help with making a list—but I’d look for names that rhyme with the nickname, or have similar sounds, or are from that same style category. I might browse the 1800s name lists for similar guy nicknames, or see if there were any similar guy nicknames in the family tree.

If you come through this intermission strengthened in your resolve to use the name, I think my own strategy would be to start talking about baby names with colleagues (you don’t have to give away the first name you’re actually going to use, if you want to keep it a secret—just mention other names you’ve considered), and start mentioning that you’re “thinking of using” the middle name Clem. This would give everyone a heads-up, which I think would go a long way to reduce the anticipated awkwardness after the birth. (I wouldn’t ask the mother or the student if it were okay to use the name, unless you’re prepared/willing to abandon the name if they say no.) I’d come up with some responses ahead of time to things I thought others might say. Them: “You mean…after Clem Johnson?” You: “Oh, not really—but of course that’s where I first heard the name, and she’s a great girl so it certainly didn’t HURT the name. I just found it really grew on me.” Or “I’d liked the name already for a boy, but having Clem Johnson in my class is how it occurred to me I could use it even if I had a girl.”

Does anyone have any other ideas of how to pull this off with the least awkwardness possible? And let’s have a poll over to the right to collect general reactions to the idea. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Name update! A. writes:

You and your readers helped us tremendously with our naming decision for our baby, who was born March 18. I had written to you last May to ask about the etiquette around using a middle name inspired by one of my students’ nicknames. I then wrote to you in November (after I was actually pregnant) to ask about some concerns I had with our finalist boy names. The advice we got from these requests was really helpful. We were going to decide between Margaret Linne@ and Ele@nor Verne for a girl — depending on what seemed to suit her best — and had settled on  some undecided combination of Charles, Arthur, Gregory or “something else” if it was a boy (most likely going with Ch@rles Arthur).

We had a girl and it actually took awhile to name her. Within a few minutes of her birth, my husband had formed an opinion and asked me if I’d formed one yet. I’d barely gotten a look at her face yet and so I hadn’t! Besides, when he got back from the warming area where they weighed her, he said he was already leaning in the other direction.

It was a VERY difficult decision, but we eventually decided that she looked more like a Margaret than an Eleanor. And even though we brought her home on the vernal equinox and I still feel some residual “but it   would have been so perfect!” feelings about Ele@nor Verne, we went with the name that seemed to fit her best.

Many thanks! I am hoping that I may someday have another daughter who will feel more like an Eleanor. They’d make a great sister pair!

SECOND name update!

Dear Swistle,

This may be a first for your site, but I have a second update to a letter that I wrote to you three years ago. I had written to you about using a student’s nickname as a middle name for a potential future child. As it turned out, when we had our daughter the following spring, we ended up going with a different name.

I’m pleased to announce that our second daughter, Lydi@ Vern, was born at the end of June and we have no reservations about her name. As you predicted, there were several factors that made the middle name more usable now than it was with our first daughter.

First, the student graduated.

Second, the mom of the student left the school and took another position elsewhere.

Third, I left the school and took another position elsewhere, so my current students aren’t aware that the name has a connection to a former student.

Fourth, when I was around 12 weeks pregnant with this baby, I went out with some of my former colleagues, including the mom of the student.  While we were out, I confessed how much I loved her daughter’s nickname and how we’d almost used it for our first daughter’s middle name. She thought this was wonderful and funny and gave me her full blessing to use it if we still wanted to and didn’t think it would bother her daughter at all.

Thank you so much to you and your readers for encouraging us! I think her name is perfectly balanced for her.

K. writes:

I know you’ve tackled this one before, but I’m at complete loss. Early on we decided we liked the name Alexander (our first baby). His middle name will be Thomas after my husband’s late father. But we made the mistake of telling people about it. It didn’t help that the husband wanted to call him Alex and I wanted to call him Xander. Not only that, but the mother-in-law’s boyfriend (whom I hate, deeply) decided it was fun to call the baby Alex. But I digress. We decided the name was dead and after much research came up with Zachary. Which is OK I guess. My husband still feels that Alexander is the best name. That it just “feels right,” but still refuses to call him Xander (which is too popular to be unique anymore anyway).

I guess I’m just frustrated that a perfectly good name has been destroyed for me and we can’t seem to find any other names that we both like. The only girl’s name we ever agreed on was Amelia.

Any advice you could give me on coming up with a similar but more awesome name would be much appreciated!

Amy writes:

My name is Amy, and my husband’s name is Dallaway, but he goes by his middle name, Jacob. We have 5 sons (!). Twins: Jones Milo and Dallaway Miller who are 8, Foster Henry, 6, Maguire Thomas, 4, and Lanham Grant, 3. We’ve gotten pretty good at naming boys, and assumed we’d probably be having a 6th boy and decided on Harrison Jonah. But to our surprise, we’re having a girl! And we’re completely lost! We are due in June, so we have some time, but it is really stressing me out that we have no where to begin! My husband’s family naming tradition kind of started our own thing. The Renyold tradition is that the first born son (who is my husband) name his first child his mother’s maiden name. Many people in his family go  by middle names, such as my husband. So when we discovered we were pregnant the first time, we knew our child would be Jones Milo or Jones (Joannie) Katherine. At the discovery of twin boys, we had some issues. Baby A would be Jones…but what do we do with Baby B? We decided to continue the maiden name theme so the names were similar. It just kind of kept going through the 5 boys.. We’ve used Jacob’s mother’s and both grandmother’s middle names (Jones, Dallaway, and Foster). Then moved to my mother and paternal grandmother for Maguire and Lanham.
Now, we can’t decide if we should try to continue the last name theme with our little girl or just pick a name we like. She is likely to be our last (but we said that with the last 2. ; ) ) I would want her to have a family name in there somewhere.

Useable family (not last names) names:
Katherine
Allison

Hazel

Molly

Susannah

Last names that could be used:
Harrison (not for my daughter, ever)
Keeton

Baily (our best bet for a girl with last name. This is my great grandmother’s maiden name).

Names I like: (husband hates the first 3, but is open to use as a middle name. He isn’t particularly fond of any)
Jane
Milly

Rose/Rosie (not with Renyold, though)

Audrey

Clara

Julia

Names he likes:

Sterling (I’m afraid it’s a bit too masculine seeing as we do have 5 boys. I don’t want her to get lost in the testosterone. But I like it.)
Felicity
Ella (too popular for me, but would consider Eleanor)
Amaryllis

Hyacinth

Zippora
(he’s kind of all over the place)

We can’t seem to agree on anything! Right now, we have considered:

Clara Allison (my favorite)

Hazel Felicity

Amaryllis Katherine

Susannah Eleanor

Clara Jane

Baily Sterling

Amaryllis Keeton (husband’s favorite)

Please help us!!

Name update! Amy writes:

Our little girl surprised us all by making an early appearance 2 weeks early. Our beautiful red headed blue eyed little gal came into the world May 18th at 6:43 p.m. weighing in at 6 lbs 3 ounces, 19 inches long. We had a few naming choices in hand at the hospital, and after seeing her, we knew she was our Felicity Keeton “Renyold”. We love her and her name, and her brothers are all smitten with their “Lissie”. Thank you and your readers for your help!!

Lena writes:

Swistle, I am due with a boy in 9 days, and having last minute doubts about our name choice!
My name is Elena Maeve (EH-LEEN-AH), always called Lena, and my husband is Bert Adam. The baby’s last name will be Reiser (REE-SIR). My husband has been pushing so hard for a junior, and after being skeptical at first, I am now in love with the idea. Our son will most likely be Bert Adam Reiser Junior. The problem is what to call him on a day-to-day basis. We have vetoed Bert, because it is just too confusing, and I dislike the idea of calling him two names, like Bert Adam. To make things more complicated, my father, brother, and 2 year old nephew are also named Adam. My father is Adam Nolan E_______ who goes by Adam, my brother is Adam Nolan E________ II who goes by AJ (Adam Junior), and my nephew is Adam Nolan E__________ III who goes by Tripp. So my son cannot be called Bert, Bert Adam, or Adam. We thought about BJ (Bert Junior), but I refuse to give my son those initials. So then Bert came up with just calling him Junior, and surprisingly, I LOVE it. It sounds so cute to me, perfect when he’s a child, and as he grows older we will let him decide if he wants to be Bert, Bert Adam, or some other nickname. So, we were all set to name our son Bert Adam Reiser, and call him Junior, when my mother visited and I made the mistake of telling her his name. She told me that she thinks Junior is a hideous name for a dog, and while it is our decision, we should definitely NOT use it. UGH!!! Then I started to ask some of my friends, and they all told me the same thing (much politer of course!!). So now we are totally rethinking this with only 9 days left, and have no clue what to do. The other option is to name him Tobias Bert, called Toby, which is our runner up name (We both love this too, just not as much). We don’t think that we want more than one child, although you never know. If this baby was a girl she would have been Lucille Greta, called Lucy, or Louise Greta, called Louie.

Some names that we loved but eliminated for various reasons were: (to give you a sense of our taste):

Louis
Tobin
Archie
Holden
Elijah
Edison

(We’ve been told we like Grandpa names☺)

Our final questions are, should we just go with Junior if we love it, or does it sound too doggy, is Tobias Bert a better choice, what are some other nickname options for Bert Adam Reiser Junior???

Thanks!

Nicknames come into and go out of style, just like names do. For awhile, most of the Elizabeths are called Bess or Betsy; then most of them are called Liz; then most of them are called Beth. Then Libby, then Elizabeth-no-nickname-just-Elizabeth, then Ellie—and then Betsy and Bess come around and start sounding fresh and pleasing again.

I think what is done when a father and son share the same name is similarly a matter of current styles. For awhile it was Junior/Chip/Trip, but that gave way to using Bob and Bobby, or Big Bob and Little Bob. Then that seemed to cause problems as well, so we started calling the child by his middle name, or even by a nickname of the middle name. And now I think we’re coming back to Junior and Trip.

It’s always an issue when two people in the same house have the same name—but then it’s different when the child grows up and has a home of his own. When the child is older, he can help choose his own nickname if he doesn’t like the one you’ve chosen; and when he grows up, it’ll no longer be an issue: he can continue to use his nickname, or he can use his given names. So all that is needed here is a Temporary Childhood Solution (Junior, Bobby, Little Bob, going by a middle name, etc.).

In my opinion, you’ve found it. Junior is a little startling because it’s gone out of usage, but I found that after a moment or so it struck me as very pleasingly retro. As with names such as Sally and Hank (and Archie and Bert!), I think it’s ready for reuse.

Because you’ll be on the cutting edge, I suspect you’ll encounter a little resistance—but I also suspect the resistance will fade quickly. It will be harder for the older generations: just as we’re more resistant than current teens to the re-emergence of shag haircuts and leg warmers, so the older generations are not quite as ready to hear Junior brought back. I’d be gentle and jokey about it: “It’s hip, mom! It’s like orange and owls and daisies: it’s HAPPENIN’!” (And maybe let her use her own nickname for him, if you’re willing and if she really can’t get used to it.)

The dog-name aspect, however, does not seem like an issue; I’m not familiar with Junior as a common dog name, and even if it IS common as a dog name, it is much better-established as a nickname for your exact situation. And you love it: you love the idea of a junior, and you love the idea of a Junior—so it seems like you should go with both, instead of changing things around because of an initially unfavorable or tepid reception (which, again, I think is likely to improve with time). And it’s just a nickname, so it can easily be changed if you’re not happy with it. Perhaps after he is born, a different nickname will naturally emerge.

If you decide against Junior, though, I suggest Barry. It’s a bit of a reach (it comes from the initials BAR; it could also come from the first three letters of Bert, but I think Berry may look too feminine), but I think it would work. Or Bertie, of course, which I’m fond of because of the P. G. Wodehouse books (that Bertie is a bit dim, but also good-natured and likeable and kind and generous). Or you could call him B: this is a nickname style I’ve been seeing more and more, and I like it.

Or you could call him B.A. for his first and middle initials, or B.R. for his first and last. Over the years I’ve known a few people who went by unusual initials (i.e., not the more common ones such as T.J. or R.J.), and what I’ve found is that it seems a little awkward at first but soon becomes natural. (B.A. sounds natural to me already, because I used to babysit for one.)

He could go by Reis, as a short form of your surname. Or, was your husband named Bert after another Bert, maybe a Bert whose legal name was something longer, like Robert or Herbert? That might be another place to look for nicknames.

Name update! Lena writes:

I’d just like to thank you and your readers so much for helping me and Bert find a name we love for our son! Bert Adam Reiser Junior was born May 23, and is gorgeous and healthy! We decided that we really did love the name Bert, and the idea of having a junior, especially since we don’t think we want any more children. After reading what you and your readers said, I decided that I wasn’t so sure about calling him Junior anymore. We loved the suggestion of Berry and Bear, and had planned to call him Junior just inside the family, and Berry on a day-to-day basis. However, from the day he was born the name, Bo just fit, and we’ve been calling him Bo ever since. When he gets a bit older we might call him Junior or Berry, but for now we love Bo, and it fits him perfectly!

Thanks for everything,
Lena, Bert and Bo!