Wow we are getting so much election-related mail. There’s one organization that sends repeated reminders that they can see whether we voted or not in previous elections, and gives us a score based on that attendance, and reminds us that this is public information that can also be seen by our neighbors. It’s super creepy and menacing. We’re also getting stacks of glossy oversized postcards that make me not want to donate any money to any candidate ever again.
We are back from a college open house for which we had two goals: show Elizabeth that this college had a really good art program despite having a non-artsy-sounding name, and help Edward decide between this school and another school that are his top two. Elizabeth did come away with a better feeling for the art program; also, we attended a presentation by the professor in charge of the illustration program (Elizabeth’s current frontrunner major), and we both felt like we came away with a much better idea of what that major would be like, both as a degree and as a future career. Edward was put off by a speaker for his program, an older guy who kept saying things like “You want an example of new tech? Two words: Tik Tok.” So now the other school is his top choice, which is too bad (because I don’t think this one speaker was a good representative of the school) but there it is. And Elizabeth would rather not go to the same college as Edward, so maybe this is for the best (Edward’s current top choice does not have an art program).
Elizabeth is getting increasingly stressed about choosing which colleges to apply to, which in turn is making me increasingly stressed. Her original goal was to go to the art college of a university: she wants non-art-program fellow students, plus the option of taking non-art-program classes, plus the ability to combine art with something else if she finds something else. But both of her high school art teachers are murmuring about this. “The art world is so competitive, and a well-known art school really helps”—that kind of thing. One of the teachers went to an inexpensive small local college and regrets not going to a bigger/better art school; the other teacher went to perhaps THE most well-known art-only college, and is colleagues with the first teacher at our middling small-town high school, so I don’t know if that gives any evidence for the idea that an art-only school is better.
But of course it’s making Elizabeth feel like she’s on the verge of making the wrong decision. And it’s not as if I know anything about it, so I can’t even advise her—but I’d thought her reasons for wanting a university sounded solid. What we’re going with now is something more like “Welp! We don’t know! So we’ll do the best we can here to make this very-hard-to-even-guess-what’s-right choice, and then you can transfer if you need to / get a further degree elsewhere / whatever needs to happen!”
This reminds me of my college thesis advisor being VERY worried that I only applied to one film school. I kept telling him, “eh, if I don’t get in I’ll go to law school,” which made the French accent muttering go into HIGHER gear. (I got in, I am now a TV producer.) all this to say, there is a lot of muttering that art people do, and if it helps, none of it REALLY matters.
My ex went to what is one of the very best art schools in the country, and while he has made great connections and done great work over the years, it was in my opinion absolutely not worth the massive expense (which I cosigned for, because I really didn’t have a choice, yay debt forever) and he would have done just as well at an art program at a regular university, just as many of the artist friends he’s made since did. I am team Regular University. Please let Elizabeth know so she can be persuaded. Hah.
the political mailers and the charity ones are the same thing and really only seem to enrich big paper. WHY????? (I get the informational ones and I get the single piece of outreach to voters but the level and the expense.)
I know a few people who went to Mass Art – I don’t think any are working as artists. One was an art teacher but has given that up recently to become a Postal worker because it at least comes with more benefits than teaching children. So.I’m trying to think if I know anyone with an art degree from a non-art school. I must but can’t think of it. I was almost one. I don’t think it matters. Another random thing: artists need patrons. those patrons are not likely to be other artists. Going to a “normal” school lets her be the roommate of/share a class with/know from the dining hall the next great philanthropist/company owner/idk what that would need her services and will have the money to pay her. Just a thought.
YES. Do not underestimate the power of networking with normal people as well as art school people. (both for a, uh, less dramatic approach to life in general which is a boon to have within your friendship circle, and for this future networking opportunity thing, because they will go and work places, and they may be able to remember when an art job comes up at their company “oh, hey, I know someone!”)(and yes, also, if someone’s super-rich and wants to be a direct patron, great!)
My daughter went to our state’s big public university as an art major. She had wanted to go to an Art School, but was waitlisted at the big one, and accepted at another which we declined to pay for. She never was really very happy at big state school, but did enjoy taking lots of non-art classes. She eventually graduated with a BFA and had some success but being a working artist is HARD and definitely not for everybody. She worked in the art field for a while and is now happily working in tech at an art-adjacent job (she realized that she enjoys having a steady paycheck and benefits, and can pursue art on the side). I think, like most any major, you will thrive if you are willing to put in the work. There are plenty of contacts at any school, and lots of opportunities for internships, residencies, workshops, etc., etc. no matter where you go. I realize this is not at all helpful.
We get the political mailings, but what’s really driving me batty lately is all the TEXTS. I did not sign up for texts or consent to texts. I dutifully block each number that texts me about political things but these organizations have an endless supply of numbers they use and it seems like I get several daily. That’s TOO MANY.
I feel so much empathy for you and Elizabeth. It all sounds so stressful. WHY, before we are fully adult, do we have to make this huge, momentous decision based on NEXT TO NOTHING that supposedly will have lifelong consequences?!?! It’s dumb and I hate it for you and pre-hate it for me and my kid. Hoping Elizabeth’s choice becomes clear and that once applications are in you can both rest easy for awhile (until acceptances come out, which I’m sure brings its own stress).
I just have to comment on this – I wondered why they send all the texts, but my FIL sends donations via texts! Just to like random text messages! And he said to my husband that he thinks he’s been scammed. You think?! Please, don’t send donations to randos texting you!
Also, re: Elizabeth. The best choice, I think, is the one that gives you the most options when you are done. No debt is fantastic. Smaller debt better than a bunch. Non-art class options better than only art options. Everyone changes all the time, it seems a shame to limit yourself at 18.
Very sorry about the stress contagion. If she does go to an art school, pick one with a *really solid* track record of people getting jobs and starting businesses out of it, but also realize that being able to, say, minor in business would help a lot with future art degree, unless the art school has that kind of classes as well, which some might. (freelance contracts! small business! etc.)
My aunt went to FIT. She then remained bitter for the next 40+ years because her father wouldn’t sponsor her for *more* than the additional year she spent in NYC trying to get a job in the fashion industry (he then sponsored her different-career next-degree; he just wanted to make sure she was able to have a job eventually and did not have confidence that this would happen after a year of no results). Not every talented, motivated, professionally-trained person is going to find a good job in the arts, and this sucks, frankly. I would strongly veer towards good art program at regular school so that there is job backup (and for the networking with people who are not art people), but that is me and 1. hedging my bets and also 2. a lot of art schools don’t have a better graduate placement rate than the non-art school art departments do. So. I guess. Graduate placement as well as a good fit for her interests would be something I’d be interested in among art schools? (and specifically, if it can be gotten at, placement of people *with her interests* because some fields within art have more demand than others)
But! If she goes somewhere and goes “… this is not it” then she can transfer! It really is fine.
I am also getting TONS of political mail and the only good thing about it, according to my husband, is that somewhere a printing company is making money (he works for a printing company. They are all struggling). And I don’t get texts, Suzanne, but I get one THOUSAND emails daily. It definitely makes me want to never donate to a political campaign, ever.
As for the college decisions, one piece of advice I go back to constantly is that Whatever Decision you make will be the right one. (It’s hard to explain this without some kind of “everything happens for a reason” logic, which some people don’t go for – but it can be helpful in moments of panic.)
Co-sign on the “whatever decision you make will be the right one” + not wanting to get to everything happens for a reason but it does.
I know people who went to art schools and people who went to regular colleges and they ended up in careers that range from arty to not-at-all-arty-but-still-helped-by-art-training, and the main thing I would worry about is taking on too much debt to be able to follow a good path (<– deliberately vague descriptor because it varies so much).
Tons of political mail AND college mail here in NH with a senior. My daughter has her heart set on a particular historic liberal arts college. I hope she doesn’t get her heart broken. Senior year is hard.
That said, I am a high school teacher and I would say that all students who want college do find places to go to college and most of them end up very happy with their choices. And of course, there are plenty of options if not happy.
More or less consistent with @Ann’s comment right above mine, I tell high-school kids applying to college that what they do when they get to wherever they go is way, way more important than which school they go to. I’m sure there are a few counter-examples, but I’m convinced that’s largely true.
That said, I’m also a big fan of the thought that most of us do not know what we want to do (even if we think we do), nor have we been exposed to many of the options for things we might do / fields we might study, when we are in high school. So, consistent with Elizabeth’s original thinking, I am a fan of universities (or possibly liberal-arts colleges, for those who benefit from a smaller/more guided environment) with good, broad offerings rather than specialized places. OTOH, if you can afford it, perhaps she can apply to a couple of the more specialized places and kick the (decision) can down the road a bit?
My brother went to a very good music conservatory for 1 year, realized he didn’t want to have a career in music, and transferred to a big state school. He turned out fine.
Whether you voted is public information?? Is this a state by state thing? That is creepy and threatening. Expecially to them, if they think you won’t vote for them.
I will say one thing for the election mailings- they dissuaded me from voting for someone I did not previously realize was associated with the Nutters also running for school board. Sorry not sorry, Nutters.
I too get many texts, both for local candidates and non local (I have a non local area code). Wires got crossed and I get texts intended for my mother. Siri thinks she is so smart, she suggests that I add Bernie Sanders’ number to my contacts. I already voted and I wish I could opt out of receiving these texts altogether. Can I also now opt out of seeing the same signs by the side of the road every day? Please.
So I went to a no-name school for my bachelor’s degree and an Ivy league for my PhD (not in art) and I 200% think the going to a university not an art school is the right choice. Most if not all top schools are WAY overpriced especially for the quality of the education. At my no-nane undergrad all of my classes were taught by PhD profs who had limited duties beyond teaching which meant they put a lot of effort and time into their classes and mentoring us. At the Ivy League school i went to for grad school most of the profs are there to do research and teaching is 2nd or 3rd or 4th priority for them. Plus, an awful lot gets outsourced to TAs.
I’m not going to claim knowledge of art school but given my experience I’d always recommend aplan like Elizabeth’s. There’s also always the option for grad school at an art school, presumably.
Came here to tie your two topics together – why do colleges still need to send so much snail mail? Expensive glossy brochures sent to kids who frankly don’t care about mail! And even once my son was accepted they still sent all kinds of things by mail that was duplicates of the emails he was getting. Drove me crazy! But prepped me for political season where every week my recycling bin is full of things I don’t even look at. I wish we could stop the madness!
My daughter is a 2022 BFA recipient at a ONLY-ART COLLEGE within a larger university. It was the best option for her. She had access to non-art students, non-art classes and the facilities that a larger school can offer. We looked at every permutation possible but this was the right choice for her.
Of course, she got into 6 schools and the one she went to was the ONLY ONE that didn’t offer her a scholarship……[shrug]
Wendy Robinson has a sub stack, Open Water. She recently did a series on college admissions and how there is no perfect college ect. It was all very calming. It might not help your kids feel less stressed but might help you.
My parents weren’t very involved in the college search and I ended up choosing the college I had applied to that was farthest away from home and one that I had never visited in person, and had pretty much applied to on a whim. I loved it and had a great four years. I do have some adult regret that we have to choose majors as tiny immature children because after 10 years working in the engineering field as a women I noped out of that. But now I’ve been a stay at home parent for 10 years, don’t want to go back to my chosen field, realize some other fields would be more to my liking, but I’m not willing to do more school and where do I go from here?!
1) When I was in college, I had two friends who were twin youngest of 5 at that college. At once. So they got a hefty sibling discount but still the bill must have been staggering. They had not choice and had to go to this college if they wanted any parent help. This college did not have an art program/major, but they found out it had a partnership with (well known) art school. They got degrees in communication, but some sort of dual degree with the art school. One runs were own very successful mural company. One has had a very interesting career path leading to her running communications for a large university and overseeing the art featured in their publications. Maybe a larger university that interests her would have a partnership? Just an idea (that I had never even though of).
2) Echoing above – whatever choice she makes will be the right one. She will figure it out.
It is public information in every state, though some states only release the information to campaigns and organizations whose purpose is voter registration and participation. Direct political donations to candidates is public information.
Mailers are particularly useful in down-ballot races. Canvassing is MORE useful, but harder to do in rural areas.
I ran for office twice and have canvassed over 60K doors for candidates other than myself.
Lots of food for thought here! Glad Elizabeth got some info on her career options post-college for illustration (good wishes to ya’ll for the upcoming decisions & applications!). That’s such a big piece of info missing from many high school & college experiences unless you have a a specific type of career path in mind at an early age. I’m just starting to navigate this with my early high school student. One thought is to look up the careers/credentials of artists she aspires to be like and see what kinds of educations they have (assuming that’s public information). Also one could look at job listings for some jobs of interest and the experiences needed (again assuming that info can be found).
I, too, strongly believe your first degree should be obtained somewhere with broad offerings. Even if you aren’t the student who changes paths, you are enriched by everything around you. Your second – or sometimes third – degree, should you need one, is when you choose the best school for your particular specialty. I could write a book here of lived and observed experiences, but I will spare you.