I was thinking about why it is that maybe 99/100ths of my conflicts with my boss occur entirely in my head. I will give you an example, even though I know it is possible to argue or see the other side with any one example. This is just to give an idea of the SORT of thing I mean, and it should be understood that these examples are CUMULATIVE, so that I didn’t make any assumptions the first many, many times I felt cranky about something, but instead gradually acquired the impressions I currently hold. Nor should it be assumed that ANY time ANYONE says something to me, no matter how casually, I’m meticulously analyzing all the possible meanings it could have. (“The clerk said to have a good day! DOES SHE ASSUME I HAVE NO TROUBLES???”) No: it is that when someone is driving me crazy, I like to try to put my finger on WHY they are driving me so crazy. And I am definitely not saying that if someone ELSE in a different context were doing the same thing, it would drive me crazy. I further realize that the current cultural ideal, successfully achieved by SO MANY, is not to waste a moment thinking about how anyone else thinks or feels, but that is not compatible with my temperament type; and so if you find that frustrating, let me assure you from my lying-awake-agitating position that I HEAR YOU (and yet don’t need to hear it again).
Finally we arrive at the example: if I say I can’t take an extra shift because I have plans, she will respond “Okay, have fun.” Nothing wrong with wishing someone fun! It’s a positive thing! Not only does she not resent me not being able to fill the shift for her, she goes FURTHER and hopes I will have fun!
But what it tells me (again: OVER TIME, with multiple types of examples, not just after one incident and/or with the one example I mentioned here) is something about the way she perceives the situation. When I tell her I have plans and so can’t work, does she imagine that I will be going to the dentist, visiting a terminally-ill relative in the hospital, helping out a parent who has Alzheimer’s, taking a child for medical tests, going to see a lawyer, attending a meeting with a counselor/principal about my teenager in trouble, going to an AA meeting, or working a shift at another job? No, and we know that because we would not say “Have fun” to someone going to any of those things. If I’d said, “Sorry, I can’t—date night with my husband!,” it would be perfectly appropriate for her to say, “Oh, that sounds nice! Have fun!” But instead it’s “I need you to fill a shift” / “I’m sorry, I can’t” / “Okay have fun.”
Paul says, “Well, probably she’s just saying it without thinking.” Yes. I am sure she IS saying it without thinking. I don’t think she’s thinking, “What’s the sickest burn I can do without being called on it?” No. The very POINT is that she’s saying it without thinking—which is what (combined with many other clues) reveals how she IS thinking. This makes Paul roll his eyes, but listen: some of us are interested in how computers work, and some of us are interested in how market economies work, and some of us are interested in how transportation systems work, and some of us are interested in how chemicals work—and some of us are interested in how people work. I am INTERESTED in this.
Anyway, through many hundreds of assorted examples of this type, I have gradually acquired a good picture of the way my boss sees the situation: she sees herself trying so hard to get ANYONE to help her, and NO ONE WILL, because we DON’T CARE. We are all off partying (as opposed to handling other duties and responsibilities), while she scrambles frantically to take care of the elderly, and we WON’T HELP HER because we DON’T WANT TO WORK. It doesn’t matter if we’ve already worked ten hours that day. It doesn’t matter if she’s calling half an hour before the shift starts and very few of us just sit around twiddling our thumbs in case we’re suddenly needed at work. It doesn’t matter if we just got home from filling another shift last-minute. It doesn’t matter if we’ve made it clear we are doing the job ON PURPOSE because we WANT TO, and show up to ALL our scheduled shifts. It doesn’t matter if we’ve in fact worked more hours that week than she has. It doesn’t matter that she never fills a shift HERSELF. The way she seems to see things in her head is that we’re all off having fun while she’s trying to hold everything together all by herself.
I don’t ACTUALLY KNOW this is how she sees things. Her words and behavior are consistent with this theory, but I don’t KNOW. But this theory helps me to understand why I DREAD all interactions with her: deliberately or not, truly or not, she COMES ACROSS as someone who thinks of things this way.
I can see how that would be really annoying! It would be better if she was thinking: I understand that you can’t work today because you have plans, and I hope that whatever you are doing is fun and not something unpleasant like a doctors appointment.
This is exactly what I wanted to comment. I am exactly like that in that I truly want my coworkers and employees to have fun. If theyre not working, it makes me happy and makes it easier to do my job knowing they’re enjoying themselves.
Oh, boy, this doesn’t fit AT ALL with what I get from this boss.
Yes, it would be better if she were doing it like this!
I don’t want to be “giving the other side” here, but wondered….are you actually saying you “have plans” when you say no? Because in MY head “I have plans” means “I’m going to do something fun that I would rather be doing than spending my time on what you’re asking me to do instead.” I wonder if you’d get a different response from her if you said, “I’m sorry, I have a conflict” or “an appointment.”
Actually, the former software tester in me would be tempted to come up with a list of different ways to say no and then record the answers I got with them. “Sorry, can’t.” vs. “No, have a family commitment” vs “have other plans” vs “just can’t make that work this time” vs “I can’t arrange childcare on such short notice” vs whatever. These don’t have to be TRUE, either — just to see what makes her say something other than “have fun.” It’s like a GAME!
Or, not. That may just be me. Truthfully, you don’t owe her a reason for refusing an extra shift. But it certainly sounds frustrating to feel like she’s judging your reasons to say no when she doesn’t even know what they are!
Yes, this is what I was thinking. I can’t exactly explain why this is, but “I have plans” would also give me the impression the speaker had something pleasant to do, maybe because household emergencies and family obligations aren’t generally planned out in advance. (Also because I know that I, for example, frequently say “I have plans” when what I mean is I have no plans and don’t want to!)
Of course, you don’t owe her any information you don’t want to give! But I like G’s suggestion–try something even a whisker more neutral and see how it goes. “I have to be somewhere at 6,” for example.
It would be interesting to see if you could eliminate this annoyance from your end!
I have found through experience that giving her reasons makes it worse. If I were to say, for example, “I have to be somewhere at 6,” she would say, “That’s okay—the time is flexible! You can go earlier!” Even ALREADY WORKING ANOTHER SHIFT FOR THIS COMPANY doesn’t exempt me: the other day she asked and I said, “I’m already working then” and she said, “That’s okay—I can get someone else to cover that shift, and you can do this one!”
Oh, FTLOG. This would drive me absolutely bonkers.
I agree-this would drive me so nuts I don’t think I could stick with the job. I really hate the attitude of an employer that your life should be all about work-which is the sense I am getting from this person. No means no, and you shouldn’t have to explain anything to her.
That is my train if thought, too. I have been both a boss and more often an employee and can be inside the mind of both sides. “I have a conflict” or “family obligation” or “no childcare” are much more precise while still being vague.
I was going to comment along these lines as well – that “I have plans” translates subconsciously to me into “I have FUN plans” as opposed to “I have an obligation” – but upon reading your boss’s reaction to “I have plans at 6” I am so infused with rage at her that I would like you to now just reply with “I can’t.” and offer NO INSIGHT WHATSOEVER because YOU DO NOT OWE THIS WOMAN YOUR TIME OR YOUR EXPLANATIONS ::pant pant pant::
She is saying it without thinking, and she probably does feel like she is the one holding it together. I wonder if you could break her habit, at least with you, by instead of saying you have plans (when someone says that I always think fun and good plans, not icky ones) you said, “So sorry, I have a doctor appointment”, or so-and-so has a dentist appointment, or whatever else. Doesn’t even have to be the actual thing, although if she ever saw you at the dentist when you said you were going to the doctor she might wonder abut you.
“Okay have fun” is the comment I say to a friend/acquaintance when I’m trying to be polite but really don’t want to be (when a friend cancels a dinner date, my mom can’t babysit etc) “I totally understand – no problem” is what I say when I, do in fact, understand. So I think you aren’t totally off base here.
Yep. See also, “Have a nice day!” when you say that no, you don’t want to buy any Girl Scout Cookies today. I’m sure many people do mean “ok, have fun” genuinely, and I’m sure many Girl Scouts do want me to have a nice day, but any super polite parting shot has a 50/50 chance of being an indicator of displeasure as far as I’m concerned. For example, I use, “Ok, thanks ” when dealing with customer service people who aren’t being very helpful, vs. “Great, thanks!” when the opposite occurs.
IN defense of Girl Scouts!!! The girls are required to say “thank you – have a nice day” when someone declines to buy cookies.
Elizabeth is a Girl Scout, but has not been told to do this. Perhaps it varies by troop?
Perhaps it varies by council. It is in our council’s training, which we are told to use to train our girls.
This is the kind of flippant, thoughtless kind of response that DRIVES ME CRAZY. I can totally see why you have come to the conclusion you have – imagining the cumulative OTHER factors that have built up this picture of her personality – and it makes me grind my teeth together just thinking about it. BLARGH.
There is a person in my life who says something that drives ME nuts – something like, “Did you have a productive day?” or “Did you get a lot done today?” – because it is a reflection of this person’s view of ME as a person and my (clearly questionable) choices of a) working and b) working, sometimes, from home. And while on the surface they seem innocuous or even semi-interested, context clues from my other interactions with/knowledge of this person lead me to believe those questions are part incredulous (how could anyone REALLY be doing work from home?) and part accusatory (sheesh, she seems to put a stupidly hefty value on “work” over IMPORTANT things like her family).
UGH. I am getting VERY TEETH GRINDY over here, thinking about your boss and the person in my life and their – possibly unintentional! – martyr-y/passive aggressive/judgmental comments.
Obviously you don’t owe anyone an explanation but if we are formulating potential imaginary alternatives, you could always respond with a tired sigh and say something like “I wish they were those kinds of plans. Okay bye!”
This is the kind of thing I think of to say well after the fact.
Oh, this is GOOD STUFF
excellent!
I just want to say that I love how your mind works. I need to start writing out the reasons WHY someone’s behavior is bothering me instead of just having angry conversations in the car or shower which I am far too chicken to ever have.
I said it to Kelly on Hello Korio and I’ll say it here too:
I would pay cash money (through a Patreon {https://www.patreon.com/}, say) if you and she had podcast where you talked about just about anything, but you ESPECIALLY seem to have some specific employment issues in common that I suspect plague many people-pleasing women.
JUST SAYING.
I would love to see this happen. Yes, both Swistle and Kelly. It would be superb.
One thing don’t get from typing is what her tone is like—is she super chipper in her “okay; have fun!” Or is it said with a sigh and an audible eye roll? I’m guessing the latter from your assessment of her meaning, but at first I wasn’t entirely sure.
I was all prepared to say she sees your attempt at privacy and positivity (“I have plans”) to mean you plan leisure or fun. That is, until I got to the parts about trying to get you to work UNTIL the appointment or INSTEAD of taking care of another client. Now I am simply convinced that all she wants to do is make her scheduling problem into yours. She is never apologetic for imposing on you, I’m sure. Some may call it poor management, but I call it poor manners.
I think Miss Manners would completely back you on hinting that you don’t have fun plans. You could also say, “I am not available at all today/that day.”. It implies busy, but not having fun.
Good luck; she is not my favorite person, for what it’s worth.
“very few of us just sit around twiddling our thumbs in case we’re suddenly needed at work”
I actually started my post-college career working for a temp agency and this was my life. And I STILL didn’t answer the phone after a certain time, because after, say, 10 a.m., I’d already decided they weren’t going to call and locked into doing nothing that day. I was so happy to get a long-term gig because it meant no more having to say no or ignore calls I wasn’t prepared to take. So I feel you very much, and am sorry she’s giving you the passive-aggressive sign-off.
I would be incredibly interested to read an experiment where you try out different types of replies and record her reactions.
I also would have assumed a tone of resentment/exasperation from that response.
When I was in college I worked as a fill in receptionist at a funeral home. Basically they didn’t want to pay the secretary over time, but needed someone manning the desk on evenings they had visitations. It was awful and I hated it and I started giving excuses until the last time they called…I was taking a nap and just said “I have to…do something else”. They never called me again!
I feel like that response can come off as pleasant and friendly (“That’s fine! Don’t feel bad about not being able to come in! I hope you enjoy your time off!”) or SUPER passive-aggressive (“Alright, you just run along and have fun while I sit here and do ALL THE WORK!”). From the way you described it, it sounds like the latter. That would annoy me too!
Yes! Inflection of the wordseries “have fun” varies tremendously . I’m imagining there is a exasperated, passive aggressive ring to it, sort of like how some people say “I’m fine” in a way that makes you want to step off the sidewalk to avoid them. An ironic tone…the last refuge of emotional martyrs.
Of course, I sometimes do this when I’m flustered.
I have to make a disclaimer before my comment: I love my mother-in-law, and she is a kind an extremely generous person.
That being said; she is a “comment maker.” And it is exactly the kind of thing you are talking about. The words themselves don’t sound horrible, and someone who isn’t attuned to this stuff would probably think I’m way too sensitive if I explained what she said and how I felt about it. But people (as previously mentioned above, they tend to be people-pleasing women) who do understand this sort of thing get it right away. “Oh; poor Becky, boys create so much laundry…” This is not sympathetic. You are judging my pile of unfolded clean laundry (and it is judging me; not her son! Gah!).
Maybe I’m projecting my insecurities, but I don’t think so.
Anyway, all that to say, I have a title for these kinds of people (comment-makers), and I sympathize with you. She’s forcing you into that kind of vague language. I do like the suggested response of “*sigh* I wish they were those types of plans. Ok, bye!”
Good luck!
“Comment-maker”—I like it! My late MIL was a comment-maker as well. It was hard to explain to other people why she drove me so crazy. Each individual example seemed so innocuous.
My actual mother does stuff like that. Last year she said (about my holiday card): “Your card this year was one of your better ones” – which totally means, “your other cards sucked and this is close but not quite suckage”
there are more that are escaping me right now but URGH.
Becky, do we have the same MIL?
“Oh, this rug looks so NICE when it’s vacuumed!”
My MIL is the Queen of Comment-Makers. And it makes me feel crazy, because I am SO not the person easily irritated by random comments, and in fact I think most people are Way Too Sensitive. (For instance, the influx of bloggers and articles that moms write, where they express how annoyed they are when someone says, “Oh, you have your hands full!” when they are out with their kids, or “Are you going to go for a girl?” when someone has their third son, etc. etc., when truly I think most people are well-intentioned and just say things without thinking of any deeper meaning that could be taken from their comment.
But my MIL knows EXACTLY what she is doing. And so I feel crazy. Because her comments SEEM very innocuous, but I know…I KNOW…what she is thinking. If she says, “I took the boys outside…they didn’t have their coats, so I found some extras at my house”, she is saying, “You are neglectful.” When she says, “I gave the baby a sippy cup…it looked dirty, so I washed it”, she is saying, “You are a terrible housekeeper.” My husband will say, “Oh, I think she was just telling us…she’s not making a comment on our parenting.” (No, you’re right…she’s making a comment on MY parenting.) But then I say, “No–because otherwise, she just WOULDN’T TELL US!” Why would you need to tell me that they wore extra coats or you cleaned the sippy cup? You would just do it and NOT say anything. Or just, “Oh, yeah, we went outside.” “Oh, yes, gave the baby a sippy cup while you were gone.”
Whew! Vent over! What’s amazing is that 15 years of those types of comments (we’ve been dating since we were teenagers) have made me come to despise her. (There are other reasons, too.) This is sad to me. But passive-aggressiveness makes my skin crawl! So sorry, Swistle, and everyone with these types of mother-in-laws!!!
OH! (Sorry, I’ve worked myself into a rage.)
ALSO. Her other thing that she ALWAYS does.
Husband (on phone): “Okay, gotta go, I’m going to give baby a bath.”
MIL (speakerphone, ha): “Oh! YOU’RE giving the baby a bath?” (Absolutely SHOCKED that HE is doing it and I am not.)
Husband mentions I have something going on.
MIL: “Oh! You have to babysit?” (DO NOT CALL PARENTING BABYSITTING. DO NOT.)
In every card she has ever given him: “You are such an amazing husband and father! We are so proud of the provider, husband, and awesome dad that you are!” + six more lines gushing about how hard-working, kind, and handsome he is. VOMIT. Also…Excuse me? Are YOU married to him?
Meanwhile, my card: ‘Happy birthday! Enjoy your special day!” Mmm hmm…
OKAY. NOW I’m done. Whew!!! Clearly that needed to come out.
I just had to chime in here. I love my mil but she can drive me crazy. She isn’t a comment maker but she is a question-asker…. Leading questions on topics we have discussed before or things I know she doesn’t like etc. “what kinds of protein does grandchild eat?” “No bath tonight for the kids?” SO. MUCH. WORSE. Because not only are you still getting the negative comment but you also have to answer and explain.
Oh man, I completely relate. Especially that my (future) MIL knows my fiance’s work schedule before I do and corrects me when I mention if he’ll be working. I’m sure I don’t measure up to the perfect caretaking skills her son requires. She’s also discovered dieting and “praises” me when I am choosing to be good at a restaurant. I usually give her Murder Eyes (which for me means staring blankly and not responding to her rudeness).
Ooh, this bugs me, too.
I used to work retail, and I always felt like I had to justify not taking extra shifts, etc. I had to quit working at a grocery store when I was informed we weren’t allowed to turn down shifts – even though they scheduled me during exams. And the manager kept being all, ‘you aren’t taking this seriously, this is my career!’ and I kept saying, ‘I can’t come in if I have class!’
They acted like you weren’t coming in because you were personally trying to ruin their day. My dad told me that it didn’t matter why I didn’t take the shift, I’m entitled to other commitments, even the ones that seem silly to adults (I was a teenager at the time).
Fortunately, my current employers accept, “I’m sorry, that doesn’t work for me”. And they text instead of calling, so it’s easy for me to think.
Ugh, the “this is my career” line made me angry just reading it!
I’d be inclined to try something similar and say, “Unfortunately, I’m [visiting a relative in the hospital/taking my kid to a specialist] but thanks for the thought.” You certainly don’t owe her any details, but I wonder if it would correct her assumptions and make her a little more empathetic.
Of course, people of her ilk often can’t see beyond themselves and their own needs, anyway. ARGH!
On the other hand, if you started giving a rationale, she may start assuming you ARE having fun on the occasions you don’t give an excuse, so it could all backfire!
Super frustrating/annoying!
As a manager myself I think that phrasing is passive aggressive. All managers are highly aware their team members have reaponsibilities outside of work and personal/family needs that impact their availability. It’s a major part of being a manager – finding a way to put fair policies in place that enable responsible staff to step away as needed without enabling or accidentally rewarding slacking. So my vote is passive aggressive.
My husband has a bad habit of telling me to have fun anytime I leave the house by myself, as if I’m getting a special treat by not having to bring a 4 year old and a 1 year old to my pap smear or oil change. THANKS!
I’m seething.
“No, I have other obligations at that time. Have fun filling the shift! ” LOL.
“Have fun!”
“You too!”
“Trying to fill these shifts isn’t much fun.”
“Neither are my plans, actually.”
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but is it an option to just let her calls go to voicemail from now on? That way if it’s actually important you can call her back but if it’s just her calling to bug you about taking a shift you can delete the message and neatly sidestep her fake-nice “have fun.”
It IS an interesting topic! I got very interested thinking about what be going on. I am thinking there could be a combination of things going on with your boss:
1. To be a person who schedules people in shifts, you have to be a sort of salesperson type. You are trying to sell a product (shift) to a consumer (worker). So she’s gotta be the type who always keeps pushing, calling, sticking her virtual foot in the virtual door getting shut in her face. So when you give specific reasons it’s like the used car salesman. “Oh, don’t worry about financing! Oh, you don’t need the rust-proofing!” Etc etc.
2. She probably does have somewhat of a martyr complex. I mean if you are scheduling care workers for the elderly, trying to fill shifts, I bet that would develop really fast.
3. Related to the martyr complex, I bet there are LOTS of flaky workers. Obviously you are not, which is probably one reason she keeps calling you. But shift work where you don’t need a lot of special education/qualifications? I bet people just flake or don’t show up or cancel or quit ALL THE TIME. She probably is used to people flaking to go to the movies, sleep in, etc. So she throws in the “have fun” which obviously she doesn’t MEAN but it’s a passive aggressive dig.
4. Honestly, if it were me I would probably start letting her calls go to voicemail all the time. Can you text a refusal? Can you figure out a way to call her back and get HER voicemail? Bc I could not deal with constantly having to tell her no, it would stress me out.
“The very POINT is that she’s saying it without thinking—which is what (combined with many other clues) reveals how she IS thinking.”
Yep. This. Exactly this. Humans are not that complicated when you know how to read them.
xox
I’m angry on your behalf (and that of quite a few others in this thread, I found I was clenching my jaw at many of the examples written here – you’re saints to not have strangled someone [yet]). And that situation sounds familiar to me, too. I’m working as a sort of independent contractor for a small firm, meaning they don’t need to pay insurance or any costs for us, like driving while doing the job or the gear we use,, but still expect the people doing the jobs to be available as though they were full-time staff personnel. We have to enter our times of availability on a calendar, and then, late the evening before, we’re given our schedule for the next day. Which may mean getting no jobs at all, or one at 8am and one at 7pm, but nothing in between, for example (sometimes the days are filled, but it’s become rarer and rarer). On days like that, I naturally fill that time in between with other stuff, and may leave the town altogether. Yet when they call because something popped up at 1pm, they get irate when I say I can’t do it – „but you said on the calendar that you’re available“. Yes, I was, until you had picked the times you wanted me for, and you’re not paying me for any of the time in between, so what did you think I’d do? It’s maddening.
The comment your boss gives is something I’d react badly to as well, because I sense the same sub-text to that that you get. It rings with the insinuation that whatever you have planned can’t actually as be as important as whatever she wants you to do, but if you insist on slacking off then she won’t comment on it, can’t you see how she’s not commenting? I really liked Mary’s suggestion for an answer. Letting that comment stand as-is is VERY unsatisfying.
Maybe one way to avoid that have-fun comment would be an answer like „I’m sorry, I can’t fit in anything else that day/today“ (amended as needed with „really can’t fit“ and „definitely can’t fit“). It would both say „nope, full day“ and also not give any impression it’s full of fun stuff, while also not expanding on what exactly it’s filled with. It sounds overstuffed and already slightly stressful, and should at least head off her trying the „It’s flexible!“, since rearranging a full day still won’t make it any less full. At least „have fun!“ won’t fit as an answer anymore.
That scheduling system would make me insane. INSANE. And OF COURSE you’d then fill the available time after they gave you the schedule!! HOW COULD THAT SURPRISE THEM??? AIEEEEEEEE THEY ARE THE WORST
Ooo, I like the “can’t fit in anything else that day”! That’s a good script!
Ahhh these things… in my early twenties I worked in a hotel-restaurant which would get a HUGE number of day-guests on warm summer days. My boss would usually schedule 4 people on a day where he’d need AT LEAST 8, then put 6 more on the ‘stand-by list’. Being on stand-by meant having to call at 8am to hear if you had to come in that day. At 8am he’d usually tell two people to come in at 10, and the other four to call back at 10am. At 10am, those who were still on stand-by would call, and usually two of them would hear to come in at noon (which means work until 8 or 9pm), and the last two were told to call again at noon. At noon, the last two would call, usually to be told to either come in at 2pm (and work until 10 or 11pm) or that they have to call back at 2pm. At 2pm, they’d be told to come in at 4pm (and work until midnight) or they he’d tell them he didn’t need them and they should ‘enjoy their day off!’
Yeah, thanks.
I learned one thing from him though: the smartest thing you can do as a boss it to make sure the people on your team REALLY like each other, because it means they’ll fulfill your insane requests just because they don’t want to let each other down.
Maybe if you said, “I’m sorry, but I can’t. I have plans.” Or, “I wish I could, but I’m already committed elsewhere.” It might be something. But I’m from the Midwes, Home of the Passive-Agressive. I’m pretty used to this stuff.
My initial reaction, as the person who used to have to call people in to work extra shifts, sometimes at ungodly hours, was that I used to say stuff like that because I was overcompensating- I didnt’ want to come across as angry that someone wasn’t willing to come in to work at 7 when I was calling them at 5am. I understood! Okay!! great!!
but the more you describe her, it doesn’t sound like that is the case. so never mind.
I really like the “I wish they were those kinds of plans” and “I really can’t fit in anything else today” and want to add, “Oh, geez! I wish I had known earlier! My day is just BOOKED.” (throw it back on her for her poor planning)
Seriously, in her line of work, she should have folks on standby at quarter or half pay so that she has people SHE KNOWS can fill a shift.