For the second time in recent months, a child has had a friend over and the friend has been…not someone I would have chosen. Both times, I got all agitated about it. It really is kind of astonishing, the way we don’t get to choose who our children like. They can bring people we dislike or even DETEST into our lives—can even make them PERMANENT MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY. And they can bring people into our houses, because IT’S THEIR HOUSE TOO. And anything we try to do about it will likely make them even MORE attached to these people. This is something I knew when I was having babies, but it’s not something I KNEW-knew. I didn’t FEEL it the way I do now.
It helps me to remember my own childhood friends. My mom had the same exact dismay I’m feeling now, because I made friends with kids just like the ones my kids are now bringing home. Before saying anything or even THINKING anything, I imagine my mom saying/thinking those things when I was a child, and that shuts me right up. I understand now why those friends of mine would be worrisome to a parent, and yet those kids were good kids. The things that might make a parent nervous were not things that applied in those cases and/or not things that affected me in any negative way, and in fact I ended up with some lifetime positive perspective on a few spheres where it is very tempting and easy to judge unfairly. …Which is helping me now, but only with considerable and deliberate effort.
Still. That doesn’t mean these friends of my children will turn out to be as good and no-need-to-worry as my friends were, and it doesn’t mean I find them pleasant to have around. It’s helpful to remember, however, that I don’t even really like it when the kids’ friends I WOULD have hand-picked are around: I feel weird when there are non-family people in my house, and that part has to be added equally to both sides of the equation.
Another thing that helps me is having read Eleanor & Park. It’s a good reminder that kids don’t have much power over their upbringing, and that there can be a lot of reasons why kids might act/be certain ways. As with Eleanor, a kid might not shower or wear clean clothes, and that could be something related to her personal safety, plus no washing machine and no money to use the laundromat; a kid might want to hang around too much, and it might be related to circumstances at her own house. A kid might act needy because he IS needy, and it shouldn’t be considered in the same light as if an adult I’d just met started acting that way: any adult in a society can help take care of a kid, and that tends to be GOOD for kids. A kid might be over-share-y because she’s very friendly and social and hasn’t yet learned where the line is, or because the other adults in her life are very open about things I might not be open about; and again, it’s not necessary to deal with it the same way I would if a new adult in my life were doing the same. Kids are different.
This whole thing makes me wish I were better with other people’s kids. I’d love to be the mom who makes everyone feel welcomed and safe, but knows where to draw the lines—the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle type. Well, this will give me practice. (Because of Reality is Broken and Chore Wars, my mental draft of that sentence was “Well, this will give my character XP.”)
We had a child over this last weekend and the things we heard him saying! My husband and I kept looking at each other with wide eyes and mouthing “did he really just say that?” but afterward, we talked to our child about the types of things you should say when in another person’s home. So in a way it was good learning experience for him on Manners. We kept the conversation light and not really about the other child but just general on what to do when you are someone’s guest.
It also helped to keep remembering how I was at that age and would say any such nonsense that popped into my mind. I was very outspoken as a child and I’m certain I rubbed people the wrong way a time or three.
YES! And it helps me to think of some of the things my kids have said to other adults, and how grateful I am when those other adults treat it as Kid Talk.
I always dreamed of being what my husband calls a “kool-aid mom” – the kind who welcomes any and all to her house, and is always ready to bring in a tray of snacks, blow kisses, then back away and give them all the room they need. HA. In reality, like you, I just feel generally ill at ease with other kids in the house, and no matter how wonderful they are, there’s always something that, as a parent, you would correct or ask to be done differently. I want my kids to feel like they – and all their friends – are always welcome here…but at the same time, I will grind my teeth at certain behaviours. Is it crossing a line to go from “friendly mom to all” to “actual parent to all”? It’s not a job I’d relish but maybe that’s what other kids are looking for – gentle guidance on what the rules are in *this* house.
I think that when you have kids over to your house it’s especially important to make sure they know that you are still a parent and what the rules are. That doesn’t mean you have to be a hardass and no fun, but if you let them get away with things your kids wouldn’t get away with a) your kids will notice, and b) those kids will keep doing it, not knowing that it bugs you or is against the rules. My kids are really young (4 and 8 months), but our next door neighbors have kids that are 4.5 and 14 months, and they are over a LOT. Sometimes with their parents, sometimes without. But the rules are the same no matter who it is.
All that being said, I think this is in large part related to how you grew up. When I was growing up, whatever adult was at hand was the one in charge, and I was expected to mind them. It could be an aunt or uncle, or one of my parents’ friends. Didn’t matter. My husband and I take the same approach. If we are the adult at hand, we deal with what’s going on. If someone else is closer/looks like they are dealing with it, I let them (I do step in if I can tell they aren’t comfortable with it). I know not everyone is like that, though.
Rule-enforcing isn’t really the issue here, though. This is more like, if a child is following me around wanting attention, or if a high school kid is telling me personal details the first time I meet her.
So far it’s not so much rule-breaking as unexpected neediness/sharing. Like, a high school girl telling me a whole bunch of Quite Personal stories. Or a younger child (mid-gradeschool) following me around wanting attention, which seems odd.
My daughter has a friend who I do not like much at all. I really struggled with it for a while because I always felt like, since she’s a kid, I should like her. But one day I realized that a-hole behavior is a-hole behavior, no matter who’s doing it, and that made me feel better–deciding it’s fine to just not like her. I talk with my daughter about the girl’s behavior and how I would want my daughter to handle the same things, and then I try to let it go. I decided that I would rather be the house that everyone comes to than have my kids out at other people’s houses all the time doing who knows what, so that helps me keep my mouth shut too.
I agree! As tiresome as it can be to constantly being exposed to Other People’s Children, I prefer they be HERE rather than at some other house. I have noticed that other parents are more than happy to have this happen.
That helps me, too! I think, “I wish they WEREN’T HERE!”—and then I think, “Would I rather my child was over at this child’s house?” and I think, “Er, no.”
Hmm, this is really interesting to me because I’m part of a group of parent friends where we just throw all our kids together depending on whose house we’re gathering at, & then we’re all village parents while we’re all together. And no one seems to mind any of this. I certainly don’t. I’ve managed a gaggle of kids (only one mine) at my house several times, and I find it fascinating to see how they play and interact and whatnot. Maybe it’s because I know their parents so well, I guess? And I know we all have similar values and similar rules? Also, I only have one child, so having more than that in the house is like a sociological experiment to me that I’m all too eager to watch. With five kids in the house at all times already, I’m sure that’s a very different experience.
I think it’s mostly a matter of different personality types: my mom LOVED when our friends were over and liked having lots of people in the house milling around and flopping on the furniture and making snacks in the kitchen, while that same set-up makes me feel like People Are In My Private Space.
Oh, Swistle, sometimes I wonder why I read “mommie blogs” even though my child rearing days are long gone and now I realize it’s to resolve issues about which I still have feelings of guilt/regret.
Case on point: my boys too would bring the weirdest kids home from school. Always the weird kid. (Thank god by high school they did not any more.) Despite feeling like you do when non family members are in my home, I gritted my teeth and tried to let them be.
Except with one kid. This kid would come right after school and stay for dinner and way past the kids’ bedtime. Way past, like 10 or 11 at night.
I was a single mom, trying to support my kids, going to law school and living in student housing (read TINY apartment). I was exhausted and sleep deprived all the time so I did not handle this issue rationally and with compassion. I made the kid go home every nightm spoke crossly to him, and after a while forbade my kids from bringing their friend home. (Yes, I am ashamed.)
Later I found out that the boy lived with his single mom who worked as a nurse until 11 pm and the boy was scared out of his mind to be left alone in their house.
This is 30 years later and I still think about this boy often and hope he is OK. I hope he does not have lasting psychological damage.
I wish so much that I had behaved differently.
SOB… if only we could know these things at the time instead of after the fact.
I am upset to think of you feeling guilty over such an impossible situation. I wouldn’t keep someone else’s child at my house until 11:00 at night (or even ONE MINUTE past my own children’s getting-ready-for-bed time) without extensive discussion/arrangement with the other child’s parent (and probably payment). You and the other mother were both single mothers with harsh schedules; it sounds like the only possible solution here would be for you to have taken on her child as well as your own, in addition to your job and schooling—which no one could expect. And considering he never confided in you what the issue was, and considering his own mother didn’t figure it out and/or wasn’t able to provide a solution, it definitely can’t be that the rational, compassionate solution here was to read the child’s mind and then provide free childcare until 11:00 at night every night his mother worked.
Ahhh!! Eleanor & Park! SO GOOD. I was thrilled when it won a Printz Honor earlier this week. :-)
I haven’t had this experience yet, but I remember when I was a kid that my mom loved it when I had friends over (particularly when I reached middle school and up) because it proved that I actually HAD friends. Also, she liked keeping an eye on us, which she couldn’t do if we were at someone else’s house.
Not sure what I’ll do when this happens. Hopefully I’ll be able to restrain myself from saying anything negative about the friend and just turn it into a conversation about what’s appropriate. Who knows, though!
This is so timely!! I HATE having kids over – mine are 12 (she turned 12 just yesterday!) and 14. I let the 12 year old have a sleepover last weekend for her birthday. I get completely stressed out about it – even if the kids they bring over are nice/fine. I don’t like non-family members in my space – and I cannot relax. I wish I was the cool mom – and I try to remain laid back seeming when they are around – not overreacting to…oh, I don’t know…a hyperactive 11 year old deciding nothing is more fun than chasing the cat and running up and down the stairs a 100 times in 10 minutes… But I’m not the cool mom. All I do the whole time they are here is pray for it to be over soon. On the other hand, I don’t want my kids going off to someone’s house when I don’t know what their home life is like. I’m paranoid. While I understand the idea of letting whatever adult is around be the authority figure – I think that can be misused and the wrong kind of adult might abuse (literally) that power, so I tell my kids to use their best judgment. Not wildly ignore other adults, but they aren’t to comply absolutely because honestly: some adults are asshats. I once let my daughter go over for a sleepover where the dad was in charge and the mom was in the basement “sleeping” (?) and every time the kids made too much noise she would pound the ceiling with a broom or something and the dad would worriedly try to keep everyone quiet. After the 3rd phone call from my daughter in 2 hours about how things were going, I picked her up. People can seem normal at a school function and be batshit insane at home.
My mom is one of those Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle types.
Personally, I hate having people at my house. I think of my home as my special Solitude Cave and if I want to socialize, I LEAVE my home to do so. This is a totally bizarre and possibly dysfunctional way to think of home, but home is my comforting alone space and I don’t like intruders. Gabriel is allowed because he lives there. I guess. Whatever.
Ahhh …. this is me!
I too socialize outside of the home only. No one, I mean nobody gets it. And the folks in my lfe are highly social creatures. Guess that’ll change with parenthood?
My daughter has a friend (who is also our neighbor) who is frequently trying to diminish anything positive my daughter says. She acts like a person with low self esteem who needs to put others down to make herself feel better. For example, My daughter might say, “Guess what! We got a new kitten!” and this friend would reply “Yeah, that’s not a big deal. Lots of people get new pets. Do you think you need more attention because you have a kitten?” Both my daughter and her friend are 7. She is also very bossy during play and my daughter is the type to try and suggest ideas, but doesn’t keep fighting when she is shot down (but eventually loses it and starts crying so SHE looks like the one with the problem). But for some reason, my daughter keeps wanting to play with her anyway. I feel like she just wants to please this friend and the friend will never let my daughter feel the “satisfaction” so to speak of sharing something she is excited about and she will never let her feel good about herself. My daughter seems to have the skill where you act happy for someone even if it’s something that doesn’t interest you, or at least you don’t put it down. It drives me crazy. I intervene whenever I hear all of this happening, but I am not always hovering over them. This girl comes from a lovely family. Her parents are SO nice and her older brother, who is 11, is a GREAT kid! He plays with my 4 year old son and makes my son feel so important! It just doesn’t make sense. I don’t feel like I can talk to her parents about it because I picture myself in their shoes and it would be awful to have another parent come and point out my child’s flaws. I guess in the end, I have to let my daughter deal with it because there will always be people like this, right?
I would probably limit the amount of time they spend together. I know my daughter has had friends like this and I see it sometimes eroding her own self-confidence. She recently had to go to a school function where they did speeches and this girl kept acting like my daughter was doing a terrible job, undermining her confidence at every step – my daughter ended up so nervous and shaky and unsure of herself – she did do poorly. The very next day she had a similar event with completely different friends around her – and she also had to do a presentation and she did fantastic. The people we allow ourselves to be surrounded by does make a difference.
I told my daughter it’s like a sponge that is dried out. A drop of water on it makes no difference. But that tiny drop of water, when it is constantly dripping, will eventually completely saturate the sponge. Sure a comment here or there seems like it doesn’t matter, but over time, can build up to be overwhelming.
First of all, so many great book suggestions in one post! Love ’em.
And secondly, I am already dismal at playdates (my kids are 4 and 2). I try really hard, but it just doesn’t occur to me that often! Looking back, I wonder if that was a problem for my own mom (I think it was) and so I just haven’t seen it modeled. Which is so funny to me, because I am super social, and I actually like most kids. I’m very likely to plan something with my friends who have kids but not as likely to think about my child’s neighborhood friends or preschool friends and facilitating those friendships for him. It’s actually one of my goals for the year!
Hm.. I debated writing this because it might be “over sharing.” But I was definitely the kid that parents didn’t want around *their* kid. I was poor. An only child. My parents are both blue collar workers. My dad wasn’t around. My mom worked two jobs. I loved to be at my friends – my closest two friends had stay at home moms and I thought this was the MOST wonderful thing in the world. I cannot remember an exact time I got VERY personal with a friends parents.. but I’m sure I did. Mainly because they were an adult I trusted that was AROUND and had time to listen…
One of my friends and her family made a huge difference in my life. Really and truly – they were one of the best examples I have of a true wholesome family.
I guess all I can say is to keep an open mind… you might be making a bigger difference than you realize.
yup. if i had had a friend’s parent take an active interest in me when i was a child (admittedly i didn’t have a ton of friends) i might have survived a lot less unscathed.
This is so helpful, you guys, and exactly the sort of thing I was wondering if it could be the case. Like, if an adult I barely know acts needy or clingy, it’s weird and so the natural result is that I put some distance between us. But I was thinking that with a kid, it’s just DIFFERENT. KIDS are different, and so the RESPONSE can be different. And that it’s a good thing for adults in a society to take a general interest in the well-being of the children in a society, and it can do good in ways the adult might not realize at the time. I think this is what I wanted to hear, without realizing it was what I wanted to hear.
I often have a hard time with my three year old getting into my space and stuff, so I am sure that having other people over will be rough. I’m also not a person who generally likes hanging out with kids much , unless they are mine, so now I’m really not looking forward to this. However, by the time I am dealing with gaggles of sleepover girls I won’t have the screaming baby at the breast issue that I’ve had all day, so at least there’s that.
Huh, that’s a fairly cranky reply. I’m sorry, it has been a heckuva day here.
Oh, ladies! I’m so glad I’m not the only one!
*quietly sobs with relief*
Mine are still little enough that this isn’t an issue, but I’ll be interested to see where my feelings fall. I’m fairly introverted and prefer my privacy and space, but after I got married and the option became having my in-laws over or going to their houses? Suddenly, I WAY prefer to host. I know this is a bit different than dealing with other people’s kids, but after I started having people show up to gatherings 2 hours early when I hadn’t even showered or finished getting the house ready, I started putting any awkwardness I felt back on the imposers. It’s almost like a bubble goes up and I’m able to put myself inside it while other people temporarily take over my home and my MIL does really weird and sometimes intrusive things. Maybe having strange kids over won’t be that different and I’ll do okay with it – and I sort of hope so, because like others, I feel the best way to know what my kids are up to is to become the neighborhood den mother.
I’ll also say that even well-adjusted children from very loving and stable homes might not be up on every societal norm. One of my most mortifying moments as a child was having my mom lecture me for monopolizing the conversation when one of her friends had come (from relatively far away) to see our new house. She didn’t say anything until the friend had gone, but it’s still one of my worst memories, because I literally had no idea that I had done anything wrong. The woman was asking me questions (“How is school” type stuff), and I talked to her just like I might have my mom – I was at a very chatty age, and I genuinely thought she wanted to talk to me. Now, of course, I realize that sometimes adults ask those questions because they’re being polite, but what they want to hear is “Fine, thanks,” and for you to go away so they can get back to their adult conversation. But my mom rarely had friends over who didn’t also have kids my age for me to play with, and at the time, I wasn’t yet socially savvy enough to know better.
I have one of these memories from when I was in high school and a friend’s parent asked “How are you?” and I didn’t know I was supposed to ANSWER that, so I said nothing and stood there smiling, until my friend said, “You can TELL him!” I was/am so MORTIFIED.
If it helps, I would love it if I asked the child of a friend some “How is school?” stuff and she TOLD me. I’d feel very flattered, that she would want to talk to me / confide in me. I think sometimes parents have their own issues/concerns/anxieties, which they then accidentally impose on their children’s behavior. I was recently all in a knot because my teenaged son was talking a lot (and sort of showing off to) to his aunt/uncle—and then I thought about how I’d feel if my niece talked to me (showed off to me) like that, and I realized I’d be really happy/flattered she wanted to! So I’m glad I didn’t accidentally squelch my son (I would have, if I hadn’t first thought about my niece), because it would have been so easy to accidentally do so.
Ugh I remember when I was in elementary school going with my mom to pick up my little sister from a birthday party. We were waiting outside with a few other moms (whom I knew because they were my friends’ moms) and one of them casually mentioned being absolutely exhausted. Wanting her to feel validated and listened to, I piped in “I can tell, because you have bags under your eyes.” All of the moms were horrified, and my mom said “Monica, that was very rude. Please apologize to Mrs. So-and-so.” I did, but I had no understanding of WHY such a thing was a rude thing to say. I was only agreeing with her!!
So far, most of my kids’ friends are MY friends’ kids, so this hasn’t come up too much. However, I know it will when they start branching out more and I’m pretty much dreading it. I don’t really like having strangers at my house but I really, REALLY don’t like having my kids at stranger’s houses, so… dilemma.
Oh yes, this was one of the hardest parts of parenting for me.
Have you read the fault in our stars? I can’t remember if you’ve mentioned it here before. If you liked park, you’ll like it too.
Yes, and I did like it!