Baby Girl or Boy Garrett-with-a-B

Dear Swistle,

I have been a huge fan for years, and I’m super excited to reach out to you! My husband and I are expecting our first baby in mid-January, gender unknown. Our surname is Garrett-with-a-B, my name is Chelsea-with-a-K, and my husband is called L3wis. We’d like to avoid names beginning with K & L, and names ending in -ee and -s sounds. For a girl, we have a long list of names we like and can see ourselves using: Beatrix, Annabelle, Juliet and Adelaide top the list to name but a few. We like the idea of two middle names as well. However, if we have a boy, we are in trouble! First middle name will 100% be Peter, so that eliminates first names ending in most -r/-a sounds, as the pairings lack flow. The second middle name is not decided yet. I like Wilfred (my favourite of all time! – husband hates it!), Robin, Ernest, Quentin & Ralph. My husband likes Arthur, Julian, Axel, and names with a Roman origin – think Augustus & Aurelian. We can’t use Alfred, Rupert, George, William or Leonard. Our crossover list consists of Felix, Hector & Frank, but none of these feel like the one; my husband isn’t sure if we can carry off some of these names. I would describe our style as classic, vintage, Shakespearan – we aren’t drawn to modern names, nicknames as first names or surnames as first names. I like the idea of a name that is easy to spell, and is familiar, but neither very popular or very rare. Nothing feels perfect; and I’m finding it difficult to create a cohesive sibling set with our girl names, overall I think our boy name style is a bit more conservative than our girl choices. We would like to have at least one, if not two more children in the future. Hopefully you can help us!

 

I wonder if you would like Frederick for a boy. Maybe something like Frederick Peter ______ Garrett-with-a-B.

Hang on. Is Garrett-with-a-B your husband’s surname? Would your surname work as a second middle? Although, I will say that that’s what Paul and I did, and I have been increasingly unhappy over the years with the feeling that I accepted a small handful of dry crumbs. Husband gets his family’s surname for all the children, even though he is not particular close with his family, but I “get to” have my own family name as the SECOND middle name, in the throw-away, often-doesn’t-fit-on-forms position. Cool. I hear it once per school graduation, while his surname is in the open air simply constantly.

Well, what if instead you get to use one of the names your husband hates in the middle-name position? Frederick Peter Wilfred might not work because of the repeated -fred-, but let’s say we were dealing with Felix: Felix Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B.

I’d also like to ask about the origin of Peter. Is that a name from you / your side of the family / your preferences, or is it from your husband / your husband’s side of the family / your husband’s preferences? If it’s another name from your husband’s side, we need to look very seriously at creating balance with the first name and the second middle name. If it’s from your side, it’s a good start. And if, instead, Garrett-with-a-B is YOUR family surname and Peter is from your side/preferences, then we need to make the same effort to include names from your husband and his preferences: maybe his family surname as the second middle, maybe a name from his list that you dislike as the second middle, etc.

I think Franklin/Frank is a pretty great name, and I think a kid could carry it. That’s the one that stands out to me from your shared list. Franklin Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B.

I wouldn’t worry too much about finding a style match between your boy-name choices and girl-name choices: it’s so common for parents to have different styles there; and also, your lists seem compatible to me. I would keep an eye out for names that eliminate other names (for example, using Julian for a boy could rule out using Juliet for a future girl; maybe you wouldn’t want to have a Felix and a Beatrix; etc.), and I would look out for CLASHES—but, for example, a sibling group of Beatrix, Franklin, and Juliet works perfectly well, as does a sibling group of Annabelle, Felix, and Adelaide, so I think you’re starting from a good position.

Your preferences about not repeating either the beginning sounds OR the ending sounds of your own names makes me wonder how you feel about duplicating initials/endings within the sibling group. If you are strongly opposed, it is a good idea to think ahead of time about which name from each group you like best: Juliet or Julian? Annabelle or Adelaide or Arthur or Axel? Beatrix or Felix? It may seem like an obvious thing to consider, but it’s not something I myself thought through sufficiently: I realized that if I chose Robert it would rule out Russell, but I neglected to consider it would also rule out Rose and Ruth and Albert.

I wonder if you would like the name Conrad. I’ve been noticing it cropping up here and there. Conrad Peter Quentin Garrett-with-a-B.

Or Desmond. Desmond Garrett-with-a-B. Desmond Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B.

Or Crispin. It has the merry sound of Robin. Crispin Peter Earnest Garrett-with-a-B. (I’m deliberately using a different spelling of Earnest here, just for playing around.)

Aidric. I’m not sure if it’s too many snappy sounds with the surname. Aidric Garrett-with-a-B. Aidric Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B.

Edmund. Edmund Garrett-with-a-B. Edmund Peter Quentin Garrett-with-a-B.

Hugo. Hugo Garrett-with-a-B. Hugo Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B.

Warren. Warren Garrett-with-a-B. Warren Peter Ernest Garrett-with-a-B.

Victor. Victor Garrett-with-a-B. Victor Peter Quentin Garrett-with-a-B. I know you mentioned avoiding names ending in R, but I’m not sure the flow with middle names will be that much of an issue. Do you come from a family that uses them often? That is, do you have reason to think people will frequently call your child “Victor Peter”? Or will the middle names show up in the birth announcements and then not again until high school graduation?

Marcus. Marcus Garrett-with-a-B. Marcus Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B. I know we’re avoiding -s endings, but I’m slightly ignoring that preference, especially in favor of one of the few ancient-Roman names I think works beautifully today.

I’m a little surprised your husband isn’t on board with Quentin. That seems almost more like it should be on his list rather than yours. Let me just put in a word for it to see if he’ll reconsider it, because I think it hits a lot of the preferences. Quentin Garrett-with-a-B. Quentin Peter Wilfred Garrett-with-a-B. Quentin, Beatrix, and Juliet. Quentin, Annabelle, and Felix. Quentin, Adelaide, and Beatrix.

Baby Girl Beach: Finding Balance in a Name

Dear Swistle,

I love your column and your commitment to balance between parents in naming! My partner and I feel similarly, and that’s an area where we could really use your help.

We are due with our first and almost certainly only child, a girl, in March. We were trying to conceive for a while and have developed a relatively stable shortlist, though now that this is actually happening, we’re wondering if we should open it up to new possibilities and conversely, how we will ever narrow it down. Any ideas for names to add or cut would be appreciated!

We are using my partner’s surname, which is Beach (but spelled like the tree). We decided to go with it for a variety of reasons, and I have 51% say in the first name as part of the deal. We’d also like to use a middle name from my family to help balance things out. But that’s where it gets tricky – there are “dynamics” in my family that mean many potential choices could result in hurt feelings/drama/guilt. The fact that this will be our only child increases the pressure. My last name doesn’t work well as a middle, and I never liked my middle name much. Any ideas on ways to balance the name without using a family name? Is that even possible?

One other note on honour names – a couple of names on our shortlist are family names, and if we use one of those, we’ll probably give our daughter a middle name that is hers alone.

On to the shortlist:

Mary: a family name on both sides (non-contentious). We love that it’s so recognizable but not very common, at least for babies. Only concern is that it might be too plain? We get a lot of underwhelmed reactions.

Alice: my maternal grandmother – another non-contentious honour name. So versatile. By far the most common (#11 nationwide, #44 in our province) which is the main drawback. Also, I think the name is very nice and checks a lot of boxes, but it doesn’t grab me the way some of the others do.

Bernice: this was my favourite, and my partner wasn’t that keen, and I more or less talked myself out of it. But now suddenly it’s become my partner’s top choice and I’m not sure if I can get back on board! I love the nickname options (Bernie, Bebe). I can’t decide if it’s great or too much with the last name. And is it unpopular for a reason? Too clunky?

Sylvia: the forest is meaningful to us, and it’s a pretty name. My partner has cooled on it, feeling it might be too much in grandma (rather than great-grandma) territory.

Linnea: lovely name, and meaningful to us for the botanical connection. Concerns: might be mispronounced, is just a little outside our usual name style, and might be too pretty?

Cecily: We like that it’s light but also serious-sounding. Concerns: a little hard to say, and the meaning “blind” is not super appealing.

Agnes: one of my partner’s favourites. I like it, but I dislike the nickname Aggie, and I don’t love “chaste” as a meaning.

Considered but rejected: Dorothy, Veronica, Helena, Cora, Estelle.

Boy names we liked: Laurence nn Laurie, Alistair, Ansel, James, Norbert, Jasper.

We are in Canada, which I hope is close enough to the US in naming climate that you will feel able to help. The only significant difference I can see, for our purposes, is the higher popularity of the name Alice here. Oh, and also that Bernie probably has a milder Sanders connotation in Canada!

Thank you so much for considering this (long) letter! We promise to write with an update if chosen.

R0semarie (R0sie) and Patr1ck

 

Well, let’s see, you’ve already considered some of my favorite ideas for bringing more balance to a name: using your own surname, using your own middle name, using family names from your side of the family. And you have already agreed that you will have more say in the first name; 1% more of the say seems…slim, considering the 100% sacrifice of your surname and 100% use of his, but I am just going to take 51% to mean it’s up to you, and that you will actually use that edge instead of choosing the name the two of you would have agreed on anyway even without the deal, and that way we’re all happy.

I will mention some ideas that you have likely already considered, but maybe you haven’t! And even if you have, perhaps they will be useful to someone else who is going through the same situation. One idea is to use your own first name. Men do this absolutely constantly; women, much less often. And your first name gives a lot of options to fit with a variety of first names, depending on to what extent each option feels like Your Name: R0se, R0sie, R0semarie, maybe variations such as R0salie and R0semary. My favorite would be to use R0semarie, but not if that doesn’t feel like Your Name—like, if that’s your Only When I’m in Trouble name. In that case I’d be more inclined to use R0sie. But I’ll note that men named James who have always gone by Jim or Jamie still tend to name their sons James, not Jim or Jamie.

Another idea is to use names that are meaningful to you in other ways than family names. Did you love Anne of Green Gables as a child (Anne, Cordelia, Marilla)? Little Women (Josephine, Margaret, Elizabeth, Amy)? Five Children and It (Anthea, Jane)? All of a Kind Family (Ella, Henrietta, Sarah, Charlotte, Gertrude)? The Five Little Peppers (Mary/Polly, Sophronia/Phronsie)? Are there books and movies you consider your all-time favorites? Do you have favorite scientists, politicians, actors, authors, poets?

Let’s look now at the first names. The three that align most with my OWN tastes (which is not the question here) are Sylvia, Linnea, and Cecily. I went to school with a Linnea (the lynn-NAY-ah pronunciation), and found her name endlessly pleasing to say; it was on my own baby-name list for each pregnancy. I don’t think Sylvia is too grandma; I think it’s well ready to come back into style—and considering how similar it is to the very popular Olivia, I’m surprised it isn’t more common already. I think it has a lovely sound: light/silvery but grounded/solid. I agree with your assessment of Cecily, and I don’t find the meaning to be an issue.

In fact, let’s do a little side-paragraph on the meaning of Cecily. I’m looking in The Oxford Dictionary of First Names, which says nothing about that meaning under Cecily. But under Cecil, it says that Cecil is a surname name, and that the Cecils were Welsh; it then adds: “In the Middle Ages Cecil was occasionally used as an English form of Latin Caecilius (an old Roman family name derived from the byname Caecus ‘blind’).” Are you following this? I had to re-read it like a dozen times, and I had to look up the word byname, which apparently means nickname and/or early surname (like from when surnames were used to distinguish between two people with the same name, like Isaac the Baker and Isaac the Bearded). But what I’m getting here is that the name Cecil is a Welsh surname that does not mean blind or have anything to do with blindness. But “in the Middle Ages,” people “occasionally” said they were using Cecil or Cecilia as a form of the Latin name Caecilius. And that Caecilius is a surname that came from some ancestor being called Isaac the blind, and the word for blind was caecus. This feels like a lot of big leaps to get to the idea that the name Cecily means blind. Nevertheless, Saint Cecilia in the Catholic tradition is considered the saint of the blind, so that perhaps locks it in for many. [Edited to add: This tidbit about Saint Cecilia is apparently not true. This is where I got the (mis)information: https://stmatthewmonroe.org/st-cecilia.]

Well. I wonder if you would like Celeste?

I’m not going to go on a similar journey for Agnes, because it’s a name your partner is more in favor of than you are, and I am glad to see those names but am not considering them strong contenders. I will say that other books list the meaning of Agnes as more like pure/holy/lamb (agnus is Latin for lamb).

I think the name Mary is similar to the name John, in that it seems so very ordinary and plain on paper, but springs to life with freshness on an actual child. There was one single Mary in school with my kids, and when I first heard her name I thought “MARY!!” with amazement, hearing it as if for the first time as a name rather than as almost a name stand-in. It feels saturated because of its many previous generations of popularity—but in this current generation of babies, it is rare and surprising. It is much higher in the Social Security Administration‘s rankings than I’d expect (#136 in 2022), and I have wondered if that is regional (i.e., in some areas of the U.S., there is a Mary per household), or if it is due to a large number of children being given the name but then going by a different name. I would be interested to hear other people’s experiences with the name in their region.

I am intrigued by the name Bernice. It has been off my radar. I remember a Bernice on the TV show Designing Women. (That used to be one of my favorite shows. I wonder if it holds up to modern re-watching?) Other than that, I’m not sure I’ve encountered any. I think Bernie or Birdy would be adorable nicknames. Bernice makes me think of the names Beatrice and Beatrix and Bernadette.

Alice, Bernice, and Agnes all merge a bit with the surname, creating a “speech” sound. This is not any sort of deal-breaker, but it’s the kind of thing I like to think about ahead of time.

Because you like Alice and Cecily, and because you like name meanings, I suggest the name Felicity. It means happy/lucky.

Because you like Laurence for a boy, I wonder if you would like Florence?

And because it came to mind while I was writing the post, I suggest the name Harriet. I feel it shares vibes with Agnes and Alice and Bernice and Sylvia.

If it were up to me, this is the list I’d be working with:

Celeste R0semarie Beach
Felicity R0semarie Beach
Florence R0semarie Beach
Harriet R0semarie Beach
Linnea R0semarie Beach
Sylvia R0semarie Beach

And the one that is currently my own frontrunner is Sylvia R0semarie Beach. It’s a first name that is on your shared shortlist and has meaning to both of you but you like it a little more than your partner does, which feels like it puts your 1% to good use; and it uses your own first name as the middle name, which gives her a uncontestable family honor name that goes a fair way to balance the weight of your partner’s family surname.

 

 

 

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

Thanks so much to you and your readers for the thoughts and suggestions! It gave us a lot to consider. A funny thing happened as we were testing out the names on our shortlist (we used each for a week): Alice wore so well! It went from unexciting to the top of my list. Once baby arrived on March 21, it still felt right. With my maternal grandmother’s name as first the name was satisfyingly balanced, and we chose a middle we liked for its style and meaning. Alice Esme Beach is now 3 weeks old and a true delight! Thanks again for your help.

R0sie and Patr1ck

Triplet Baby Girls Hayes, Sisters to Madrigal and Clementine

Hi Swistle! My wife, Shannon, and I just discovered your blog looking around for baby names and we’re really hoping you can help us. My name is Lauren, our last name is Hayes, and we have two older daughters, Madrigal Kathryn (often goes by Mads) and Clementine Vivian (often goes by Clem). Their middle names are our moms names. Neither of us have other family names we feel strongly about using, but a few we are kicking around honoring various family/friends are

Margaret
Paloma
Noelle
Cassidy
Julia
Rory
Hannah
Louise

But those are just middle names we are considering! The big problem is first names. And oh yeah, we need THREE first names- I am pregnant with triplet girls, due in eight weeks (yikes!) basically the only decision we’ve made is that we want all their names to start with a vowel- this seems like the level of matchiness we want. (And different letters, we def want each kid to have their own letter). As for style….well, looking at Madrigal and Clementine, I’m not totally sure how to pin it down…..eclectic, quirky, vaguely nature-ish? Here is what we have come up with so far:

Everly
Ariadne
Ottilie
Acacia
Arwen
Elowen
Azalea
Elysande
Ione
Indigo
Idabel

Can you (and your commenters!) maybe pick this bunch of disparate info into three coherent names that somehow fit together with each other and with Mads and Clem? We would love other name suggestions too!

Thank you so so so much!

 

Three different vowels is perhaps a bigger challenge than you want when dealing with the already enormous challenge of naming triplets. I wonder if you’d consider, at least to begin with, ditching ALL preferences for matchiness, and waiting to see if matchiness occurs naturally? That is, perhaps if you look at names starting with any letter, you’ll find that your three favorites all have six letters, or all have a double letter, or all have a long-O sound. That is where I would begin, if I were you: eliminate all unnecessary restrictions, and give yourselves a much longer and more flexible list to work with.

I will also suggest a technique I found useful when naming twins: I pretended they were arriving individually. That is, I imagined Baby A, and pretended that she was my third baby and a singleton; then I imagined Baby B born two or three years later, another singleton; what would I name them THEN?

Well. Working from the lists you’ve provided, and working within your current preferences because that does make a fun game, I will make a triplet set, and we will see what triplet sets the commenters make!

Ottilie, Elowen, and Ione

Ottilie Margaret Hayes
Elowen Louise Hayes
Ione Noelle Hayes

Madrigal, Clementine, Ottilie, Elowen, and Ione

Baby Boy Foreign, Brother to Charlie and Eamon

Hi Swistle!

My husband and I are expecting our third boy this winter, and due to the two big brothers, Charlie & Eamon, our list of boy names has dwindled, and we’re struggling to find a name we both agree on. The act of suggesting names has always been paralyzing for my husband, so it’s basically on me to provide a list of names, which we then narrow down. We (I) need your help!!

One big issue: he initially gravitates toward more traditional names – his one attempt at a name list was essentially the top 10 names from 1985. I do not. My only real restrictions are no rhyming or alliterative names. Our last name sounds like the word “foreign,” so that rules out names that start with the letter F or names such as Soren.

My top contender is Arlo, but unsurprisingly given his tendencies, my husband’s initial reaction was lukewarm, and I’m not sure I’ll be able to win him over. That said, we do have an Eamon, so there is hope. Also on my list are Reid and Miles. If I didn’t have a nephew Cal, the name Callum would also be on my list. Before we found out about the baby’s sex, our top girl’s name was Edie, followed by Louisa, and Eliza. We haven’t decided if we’re done building our family, but I’d like to leave Edie as an option and am tending to avoid names that begin with E.

Do you have ideas for names I could add to my currently very short list? I really don’t want to go into labor still deciding what we will name this child! Thanks so much for your consideration and advice.

Thank you!

 

I think Arlo seems too similar to Charlie with those matched -arl- sounds.

I think Reid and Miles are both great in this group, though for me Reid would rule out a future Edie. Can you say Miles over and over to your husband until he comes around? I had pretty good success with that technique when naming babies with a similar partner. Or I wonder if either of you would like Milo, which is like a combination of Miles and Arlo. Milo Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Milo.

I started to make a list of more candidates to consider, and this is how far I’d gotten when I stopped, discouraged, feeling like I was on the wrong track and was making a list of names NEITHER of you would like:

Anderson
Brody
Casey
Keegan
Oliver
Patrick
Spencer

The names Charlie and Eamon together had given me a very appealing mental image of two merry little vintage boys playing hoops on the cobblestones, tweed knickers and snap-brim caps, very Charles Dickens, and so I’d been looking for more names like that in the English and Celtic and Vintage Charm sections of The Baby Name Wizard, but nothing seemed right. I found more what I was looking for in the Timeless section: Timeless for your husband’s traditional leanings, but there are lots of fresher and more interesting choices than the Top Ten 1985.

Bennett: it has the Ben of the classic/traditional Benjamin, but it’s more contemporary and less common. Bennett Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Bennett.

Or Davis. It’s like David, which is very Top Ten 1985, but updated/fresher. Davis Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Davis.

Wilson, similarly, takes William from the Top Ten and makes it something a little more interesting. Wilson Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Wilson.

Or Clark. Snappy, but has a traditional, familiar feeling. Clark Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Clark.

Still snappy but with the confidence of thousands of years of usage: Isaac. Nicknames Ike or Zack, if you want them. Isaac Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Isaac.

Grant, which I have filed with Reid in my mind. Grant Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Grant.

Wesley, nickname Wes available. Wesley Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Wesley. The matched -lie/-ley endings might be too much or might be just fine.

Mitchell is a name I think you should say to yourself again and again until it loses its familiarity and you hear the interesting bouncy sounds of it. Mitchell Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Mitchell.

Russell, similarly: say it again and again until you hear it as an interesting sound. Russell Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Russell.

Malcolm, which sounds a little like Callum but without running into the nephew’s name. Malcolm Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Malcolm.

Paul, which I have ruined for myself by using it as my husband’s blog pseudonym, but it is a wonderful name really: warm and nice to say, and unexpected in this generation. Paul Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Paul. I think people in the grocery store would ask the baby’s name, and you would say Paul, and they would say “Oh!!”—suddenly realizing that they had forgotten about that name, and had missed it.

Louis, another warm and gentle and forgotten choice, but it would rule out Louisa. Louis Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Louis.

I wanted badly to suggest George, which would be high on my list if I had another boy to name—but I think George Foreign sounds too much like George Foreman. The man himself is not a negative association for me, but the relentless George Foreman grill commercials are. Maybe Gage instead? Gage Foreign; Charlie, Eamon, and Gage.

Baby Boy Berns, Brother to Brighton, Rockwell, and Sundance

Dear Swistle, Please help!

I am due with my fourth boy in just two weeks, and we still haven’t found a name that we completely love. Our last name is Berns, spelled differently. Our current boys’ names are Brighton, Rockwell, and Sundance. All three of these names are names that we thought of before each of my respective pregnancies with the older boys, and loved them so much that we just knew that they would be our next boy’s name. We haven’t had a similar name or feeling about this one. We’ve gone around and around, and now we’re really running out of time. We tend to like nature names, Western/cowboy names, and surnames as first names. Also, our first three boys coincidentally ended up with names that have 8 letters, so I would love to continue that tie, if we can. Popularity is also very important to us – we tend to like very uncommon names, preferably out of the top 1000. I would also prefer to not repeat sibling initials (no B, R, or S names). The only name we both like is Jasper. However, I don’t know that that fits, stylistically, with our other boys’ names. It’s a lot more popular than our other names, as well. It also doesn’t have eight letters, which isn’t essential, but I do think it would help me feel like a name was *the one*. There’s also the Twilight association, which My husband really feels like Jasper is the name, and I like it, but I remain unconvinced. Also, we both like Lachlan, but feel like it sounds too similar to Rockwell. Names that I love that my husband has turned down: – Riggins – Finnegan – Sullivan – Calloway – Ledger – Hartford – Woodward We would love your help, if you’re able! I really think that I’m going to have this baby early, and am panicking on what we are going to name him.

Thank you!

 

If I had access and consent to tamper benevolently with your mind, I would start by removing the feeling that the fourth boy’s name ought to have eight letters—even though I would have felt the same as you about it at this stage of pregnancy/naming. I remember learning in Psych 101 that the human brain can easily count…was it seven items, or was it five? Anyway, if we see a little group of, say, candies, and the group is a certain number of items or less, we can count them without counting them: we can just SEE that it is five pieces of candy, without going one-two-three-four-five. If it is MORE than five (seven?), we can’t: we have to count, or else visually separate it into groups of five or fewer (for example, I am verifying eight letters by splitting each name into two groups of four letters).

Even if your first three children’s names all had only five letters, I doubt anyone would notice (or consider it significant); with eight letters, we are almost incapable of noticing. When I briefly wondered if Twilight would be a good name possibility, I had to sit there counting the letters—and I had to do it twice to be sure.

I see the list of candidates you’ve suggested and your husband has shot down, and don’t see a parallel list of names he’s suggested and you’ve shot down. This could easily be narrative choice (if I were you, I would not want the group to latch onto one of my husband’s suggestions that I didn’t like), but we have had so many experiences here of husbands who slip into the lazy “You bring names to me, and I will give my ruling on each one” mode (or, even worse: “I have decided on a favorite name, and now it is your job to find me a name I like better than my favorite or else we have to use my favorite”), that I want to make sure that’s not the case here. This is a difficult and complicated task you have set yourselves, and you should both be putting in effort to complete it.

The trouble with the task of looking for names outside the Top 1000 is that this likely means you don’t want any of the names in the baby-name books most of us have stacked on our desks. Let me start by reminding everyone How To Find Baby Name Data Outside the Top 1000. My plan is to pull open the list for 2022, scroll wayyyyy to the bottom, and see what catches my eye.

I see what you mean about the similarity of Lachlan and Rockwell, but my own opinion is that the sound is not close enough to be a problem, especially in a sibling group of four or more.

For me, the Twilight association of Jasper has faded completely; I no longer think of it at all. But the name Jasper was #130 in 2022, and that does seem much too popular for this sibling group.

The name I would like your husband to reconsider is Calloway. It meets all the preferences AND has the available nickname Cal. Calloway Berns; Brighton, Rockwell, Sundance, and Calloway.

More options to consider:

Barnaby
Broderick (probably too close to Brighton/Rockwell but I can’t make myself delete it)
Callahan
Canyon
Casper
Channing
Clifford
Connery
Conway
Cormac
Crawford
Crockett (probably too close to Rockwell but I can’t make myself delete it)
Crosby
Cypress
Decker
Fielding
Gibson
Granger
Harrison
Haven
Holland
Hollis
Huxley
Langston
Malone
Merritt
Mordecai
Morrison
Nicholson
Noble
Oakland
Percival
Ranger
Ridley
Robinson
Roscoe (probably too close to Rockwell)
Shepherd
Sherwood
Slater
Stellan
Thompson
Truman
Warner
Winslow
Zealand

Baby Girl Jenny, Sister to Ryan

Hello Swistle!

When naming my first, your way of thinking about baby naming was so helpful! Yet here I am with baby girl #2 due in April, and I’m totally stuck.

Our last name is Jenny. It’s Swiss. So that’s cool. It’s also impossibly hard to name for.

For our first, we went with Ryan. We loved how Ryan balanced the femininity of our last name and was on the more unique side of girls’ names without being too obscure. My family heritage is Irish, so I liked that connection too.

For this next one, we have a few challenges:

1. We want something that fits with Ryan, so we can’t go too feminine, which wouldn’t work great with Jenny anyway. But I do worry about another “unisex” name. Will people think they’re both boys? They’d figure it out, but still, it feels like it’d be too much of the same.

2. We aren’t actually that adventurous with names; even though Ryan is less popular for girls (like in the 400s?), it’s still a very familiar name.

3. Both my husband and I have names that start with “Al” so A names are vetoed. Also avoid -y ending sounds if possible, to avoid a sing-song name (Jenny as a last name is silly enough).

Names I like (he doesn’t love):
– Margot (husband thinks it’s an old lady name)
– Mara
– Emory (nn Emmie)
– Noa

Names he likes (I don’t love):
– Laila
– Maya
– Emma (feels too popular for me)
– Tatum

No names are vetoed just yet. But we just aren’t on the same page! Is there any middle ground between our two styles? Perhaps neutral girl names that fall slightly more feminine?

I appreciate your help!

 

I had two immediate reactions: first “Oh, Jenny is a DARLING surname!!” followed two seconds later by “Oh I see what you mean.” It’s charming and challenging. I don’t think there’s any need to balance the femininity of it (she says, far too late to be of any use): I’m trying and failing to imagine someone with the surname James or Henry saying they had to give their sons feminine names to balance the masculinity of the surname.

I think if you go with another unisex-leaning-heavily-boy name for a second daughter, that yes, some people will assume at first they’re both boys. But if you go for a a name that is NOT unisex-leaning-heavily-boy, then people will be CERTAIN that only Ryan is a boy, and in my opinion that would be much worse. If you have, say, Ryan and Elliott, people may first guess boys, but will quickly and easily understand that you liked unisex/boyish names for girls; if you have, say, Ryan and Margot, people are not going to understand what happened with the naming style. Which is fine! They don’t have to understand! there’s no rule about coordinating names! and, as you say, they WILL figure it out! Don’t choose a name you don’t like just to make things coordinate! But if my name were Ryan in this situation, I would prefer the “my sister and I both have unisex/boyish names” scenario to the “people keep thinking I’m a boy but they never think that about my sister” scenario.

And so from your lists, my favorites are Emory, Noa, Tatum. Emory is unisex leaning girl, but still makes sense to me with Ryan; the spelling Noa leans heavily girl but the familiarity/popularity of Noah helps it seem more boy; Tatum is roughly evenly split in usage. I would absolutely not choose Emma here: not only has it been in the Top Three Girl Names in the U.S. for over two decades now according to the Social Security Administration, it’s used exclusively for girls. Margot, Mara, Laila, and Maya—also used exclusively for girls.

Let’s see if we can find more options to consider. Normally with a surname that seems like a first name, I might steer away from names that seemed like surnames; in this particular case, I doubt there is even the smallest chance of avoiding that particular confusion no matter WHAT first name we choose (even Jennifer Jenny would be unclear), so I am not even going to bother trying; also, many unisex names are surname names, including Ryan, so I’m just going to lean into it.

I used Elliott as my example name, and that’s one of my top suggestions. It’s unisex leaning boy, but familiar for girls, as Ryan is. And I think it’s fun to say with your surname. Elliott Jenny; Ryan and Elliott.

Callan. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but I have personally encountered a little girl with that name and it seemed perfectly appropriate on her. Nicknames Callie and Cal if she wants either of them: Callie to go more feminine; Cal to really lean into the cool. Callan Jenny; Ryan and Callan.

Ellis. Unisex leaning boy, but with the familiar El- of many girl names, and Ellie as an available nickname. Ellis Jenny; Ryan and Ellis.

Kellen. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but with Ellen right in there it doesn’t seem surprising as a girl name. Kellen Jenny; Ryan and Kellen.

Morgan. Unisex leaning girl, but I recently encountered a little boy with the name. A little bit similar to Margot and Mara and Emory. Morgan Jenny; Ryan and Morgan.

Teagan. Unisex leaning girl, but I’m drawn to this -gan ending and I think it’s cute with the surname. The G also makes it less of a repeated ending with Ryan: it turns it into -yan and -gan instead of both -an. Teagan Jenny; Ryan and Teagan.

Logan. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but not so heavily as to make it surprising on a girl. Logan Jenny; Ryan and Logan.

Beckett. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but with Becky and Bex and even Etta as available nicknames. Fun to say with the surname. Beckett Jenny; Ryan and Beckett.

Campbell. Evenly split in usage. Cammie and Cam and even Bella as available nicknames. Campbell Jenny; Ryan and Campbell.

Cameron. Fairly evenly split when considering all spellings, but this spelling leans pretty heavily boy. Cammie and Cam and even Ronnie as available nicknames. Cameron Jenny; Ryan and Cameron.

Gracen. This spelling is unusual and fairly evenly split in usage; however, the much more common Grayson/Greyson are used almost exclusively for boys. Gracen Jenny; Ryan and Gracen.

Hollis. Unisex leaning boy, but with the available nickname Holly. Hollis Jenny; Ryan and Hollis.

Keaton. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but I feel like Diane Keaton gives it a familiar feminine sound. Also, my mom has a childhood friend who goes by Keatsie, which is adorable and fun to say. Keaton Jenny; Ryan and Keaton.

Miller. Unisex leaning boy, but with the available nickname Millie/Milly. Miller Jenny; Ryan and Miller.

Sawyer. Unisex leaning boy. Sawyer Jenny; Ryan and Sawyer.

Spencer. Unisex leaning boy. Spencer Jenny; Ryan and Spencer.

Mason. Unisex leaning heavily boy, but my kids went to school with a girl Mason so it feels normal to me. Available nicknames May and Macy and Maisy. Mason Jenny; Ryan and Mason.

Parker. Unisex leaning boy, but familiar for girls. Parker Jenny; Ryan and Parker.

Baby Boy or Girl M@njg@fic, Sibling to Cecilia, Vera, and Helena

Hi Swistle,

I first wrote to you in 2018 when my husband I were expecting twin girls. I loved reading your advice and all the suggestions from your readers. We ended up naming them Vera and Helena. We also have a older daughter named Cecilia. We are now expecting baby #4 in early 2024! If the baby is a boy, we are almost 100 percent certain that his name will be Leo. The problem we are having is that we have almost no ideas for a girl name. When I think of my daughters names all that comes to mind is Cecilia Vera and Helena. I genuinely can’t picture a name for another little girl to add to our family.

Our last name is M@njg@fic (Main-ga-fitch) and we like names that are pronounceable in my husbands native Bosnian, but are more pan European and clearly familiar in America as well. I prefer names that are a little longer and romantic, while my husband prefers names that are shorter and easier to pronounce. We want her name to end in an A. I also love that the second letter is E in all three girls names so far, and Leo would fit that pattern as well. The second letter is not a deal breaker though. If we loved a name that second letter wasn’t E, we wouldn’t hesitate to use it.

So far we have tossed around

Julia (husband likes seems a little simple for me)
Sienna (I like but feels a little too modern compared to our other girls)
Georgiana nn Gigi (I like husband thinks is too long and complicated)
Liliana (husband likes but can’t use due to very close family already used similar name)

Our list is short so far and we really just feel out of ideas. Im sorry I don’t have a longer list to work with! Any suggestions for this baby that feels like we will never find a name for?

All the best,
T&D

 

Cecilia, Vera, Helena, and:

Ada
Alma
Althea
Annika
Audra
Belinda
Bettina
Bianca
Claudia
Estella
Etta
Eva
Flora
Frieda
Gemma
Geneva
Georgia
Gianna
Gloria
Greta
Isla
Louisa
Matilda
Nadia
Rosa
Stella
Sylvia
Thea
Zola

I have some strong favorites on this list, but when I started listing them it seemed like too many favorites to call strong favorites. If it’s half the list, is it helpful? Well, my favorites are Ada, Belinda, Bettina, Bianca, Flora, Frieda, Louisa, Nadia, Rosa, Stella, Sylvia, and Thea. I like the B names so much, I hesitate to point out that they would create initials some prefer to avoid.

I suggest modifying the E-as-second-letter preference to be an E-in-first-syllable preference: for examples, Stella and Greta and Thea would then be included.