Baby Naming Issue: Using the Namesake Name of Someone Who Hated Her Name

Beth writes:

My friend Jenny suggested we email you guys because we are having serious naming problems.

The parameters:

*Our last name starts with M and is too short to support an M name.

*We don’t know the gender

*We are small people and while we are great runners and in good shape I’m pretty sure this kid is going to be a bit of a nerd, and small and if it’s like me at all, lack all hand-eye coordination. So if it is a boy we’d like to avoid names that rhyme with jerk or can be made into horrible rhymes.

*We either want the middle name Rae or Ray for my paternal grandmother or something after my mom but here’s the thing – my mom, who died a few years ago, was named Bernice. But she hated her name. She once tried to change it at camp and wandered off when everyone was screaming JUNE! because she forgot she had changed her name.

*For boy names we like names that end in -en or -an and we love old fashioned names that have awesome nicknames (Sebastian, with Baz as the nickname, is a contender)

*We like old fashioned girl names too, and we have a few. Boy names are way harder for some reason

*But here’s the biggest problem. Because of what I do, I can’t actually come “out” to a lot of people – I’m not like in the military or anything. So it is really just me, my husband and my pregnant insomnia working overtime.

Thanks! And in the interim thank you for having the site which is perfect for reading over 3 am peanut butter.

 
The mother-namesake dilemma has seized my attention, so let’s start with that. I know from previous posts on this subject that we as a group have mixed feelings about using a honor name when the person-to-be-honored hated the name. My own opinion is that there’s a difference between hating one’s own name and not wanting it used for a namesake—but that this is why we have to apply such things on a case-by-case basis. There are people who would be indignant and upset if you used their hated name on a baby, and there are people who would be even more deeply honored that you loved them enough to use the name they think would be a challenge to use. (It’s one thing to name a baby after your Grandma Grace when the name Grace is fully in style, and another thing entirely to name a baby after your Grandma Earline when the name Earline is not.) There are people who would say grouchily “I don’t know why you’d want to give a name like mine to a baby!” and continue saying it every time they saw you, and there are people who would find they loved their own name more after seeing it on a sweet little baby.

In the case of your mom’s name, you’ll have to guess. Or since she is not here to care one way or another if her name is used, you could consider what the other people in your family will think about it: will they think, shocked, “But Bernice always HATED her name!!” or will they think “Oh, how nice!” Or you can consider how you personally will think of it: will you wince thinking of how she hated her name, or will it bring to mind only your mother herself?

If you decide not to use her name, there are many interesting options to consider.

1. Would her middle name or her maiden name work?

2. Use June: she WISHED it were her name. Or any other name she repeatedly mentioned as a name she’d rather have had.

3. Are there any names she repeatedly said she wished she’d used on a child, or did she ever mention she’d love to have a grandchild named ____?

4. Did she have a nickname she went by, something that could be used as a name?

5. I see in The Oxford Dictionary of First Names that a nickname for Bernice is Binnie. That’s adorable.

6. I think it’s reaching to use names that “have the same meaning” as the name in question, but it’s a fairly common practice. Bernice means “she who brings victory”; other names with similar meanings (according to Baby Names Made Easy) are Colette, Jaia, Jocelyn, Nicole, Veronica, Victoria. But would any of those bring your mother to your mind?

7. I also think it’s reaching to do “same first initial” namesakes—but again, it’s fairly common practice. Any B name would fit this. But again: would any of those bring your mother to your mind?

8. Now I will REALLY reach, because we’re here anyway: could you use your mom’s birthstone, or birth month, or birth month flower? Would anything special to her (a collection, a favorite saint, a favorite location, a favorite flower) work as a name?

9. Do you have another honor name you’d like to use that could be combined with Bernice? For example, if your husband’s mother was named Jeannine, you might be able to pull off a Jennice sort of thing.

I think if it were me and if it were my mom, I would use her name in the middle name slot as-is. Everyone else would know what I meant by it, even if my mom had always hated her name (it’s not like anyone would think I was intending anything but an affectionate honor), and also I know my own mom would be pleased by the honor even if she didn’t like the name—just as she’d likely be pleased if I kept a framed photo of her, even if she’d never liked the way she looked. And besides, she wouldn’t be here to mind anymore, so I’d be using the name for my own sentimental reasons and to be reminded of her and to let my daughter have something belonging to the grandmother she didn’t get a chance to know. Using Veronica or Bridget wouldn’t give me any of those same things, just as framing a photo of someone else’s mother wouldn’t be a workaround.

I just had one more idea. I’m not sure I can think of any good examples that work, and we might need to make up some names, but I kind of love the concept: we’d HIDE your mom’s name within your daughter’s name. Like this: Ember Nicelle. September Nicelle. Berni Cecile. Aubern Icene. Main problem: pretty much NOTHING ends with -bern or starts with Nice-, and certainly nothing old-fashioned, and I totally had to make up and/or misspell names to get even a few unlikely examples. We could start playing with spelling, but then it’s like all those kids named Naveah and Neveah: it doesn’t make sense if it doesn’t have a hidden word in it anymore. Sigh. Well, I suppose the idea is a bust, but it might work for other people trying to use a name in similar circumstances.

I will tear myself away from this topic and turn my attention to the other issue. An old-fashioned boy name, not starting with M, ideally ending with -n, ideally appropriate for a small-framed nerdy type, with good nicknames. Hm. I came up pretty dry on that, but we will hope the commenters have more success.

Alexander (Alex, Zan, Xander)
Augustus (Gus)
Benjamin (Ben)
Calvin (Cal)
Ezekiel (Zeke)
Judah (Jude)
Leopold (Leo)
Nathaniel (Nate)
Solomon (Sol)
Theodore (Theo)
Wilson (Will)

I think your choice of Sebastian/Baz is best, though I am also partial to Wilson/Will and Augustus/Gus and Calvin/Cal.

Hurry, Hurry, Babies Already Born! Baby Twin Boys Darling, Brothers to Charlie

K. writes:

I really enjoy reading your blog and hope you can help make some good suggestions for us. This February we are expecting twin boys. Total shock for us but super excited about it. My husband and I have a fair amount of names that we like, but can’t seem to agree on a solid pair of names that we just love. I would describe our taste in names as traditional with a strong pull towards names that are Irish/English sounding. We dislike strongly names that sound made up (like your Caydens and Neveahs), nature sounding names (no Willows or Ivys please) and anything super trendy. Our last name rhymes with Darling and we have an older son named Charles (we call him Charlie). Had Charlie been a girl, he would have been Nora, Claire or Mary Kate. Here is a list of what we’re working with so far:

Brendan -like
Thomas -love nn Tommy
Eamon- my personal fav, husband not sold on yet.
Peter-husband hates, I like
Liam-husband likes, I don’t
Andrew-husband likes, too popular for me, but I think Andy is cute nn.
John-like
Quinn-like but worried might be more of a girls name/ gender neutral name
Graham-almost used instead of Charlie, but now my MIL wishes to be called Gram so for me it’s out.

Names we can not use because friends and family have used them recently: Henry, Jack, Connor, Colin, William, Michael, Kevin.

We are not so worried about middle names for now.

We want the pair to sound nice together and flow well with Charlie. I am not sure if I love or hate the idea of twin names that are matchy-matchy. For example Timmy and Tommy are cute together for a minute, but I fear after awhile it would sound a little too sugary sweet. I feel like we are on the right track but just kind of stuck on ideas. Interested in your suggestions, Swistle. Thanks for your help!

and

My boys were born yesterday, very early, and are twin a and twin b for now.

Congratulations on your two new sons.

I am in favor of slight extra-coordination for twin names. With my own twins, I was hoping for a small connection such as same first initial, or reverse first-middle initials (for example, one J.E. and the other E.J.), or same number of letters, or repeating sounds (Emily and Liane was one of my favorite girl-twin combinations, for the same number of letters and the repeating “lee” sound), or similar endings, or initials A and B for twins A and B, or anything like that. It happened that the two names we liked best had nothing in common at all, and I am still a little sorry about that.

Working with your list, here are my favorite combinations:

Peter and Thomas; Pete and Tom
Eamon and Liam
Thomas and Andrew; Tommy and Andy (same number letters/syllables for 1st names)
Liam and John (same number of letters)
Andrew and Brendan (share the -an-, and also are A and B initials)

Along with John, James is one of my favorite classic/traditional names. James would go nicely with some of the other names on your list. Thomas and James would give you Tommy and Jimmy, which is significantly less matchy than Tommy and Timmy, while still giving a pleasing additional level of coordination.

It seems to me that Daniel would fit in well with the rest of your list. I think the nickname Dan sounds like such a nice guy.

Daniel and Thomas; Dan and Tom
Daniel and Andrew; Dan and Andy (repeating sounds/letters)
Daniel and Brendan (both have “dan”)
Daniel and Benjamin; Dan and Ben

If Andrew is too common, would you like Anderson? You’d still have the nickname Andy.

To go completely off-list, I like the idea of combining two of the boy names in the longer-names-with-short-nicknames category (and I love it extra when the nicknames also have the same number of letters!) (I know, but I just DO love that kind of thing. I also love Christmassy names at Christmastime):

Benjamin and Jonathan; Ben and Jon
Nathanial and Nicholas; Nate and Nick
Nicholas and Christopher; Nick and Chris (subtle Christmas theme)
Anderson and Harrison; Andy and Harry
Alexander and Nicholas; Alex and Nick
Theodore and Alexander; Theo and Alex
Alexander and Benjamin; Alex and Ben (twins A and B)
Anderson and Benjamin; Andy and Ben (twins A and B)

Malcolm and Callum are names that are similar to Liam, and may have too MANY sounds in common—but maybe not. Mal and Cal are probably too cute—but maybe not.

Callum and Liam also share many sounds, without having possibly-overly-coordinated nicknames.

Davis and Harris would make a nice set: matching endings, and yet the names are so different.

Elliot and Miles go together nicely without matching.

Miles and James share the same number of letters and the same ending. Is that too many -es boys for your family, or is it an additional plus?

If your husband is not quite sold on Eamon, I wonder if he would prefer Ian or Owen or Evan or Ethan?

I love Owen with Liam.

Ian is one of my favorites, but I’m not sure what to pair it with. Ian and James? Ian and Eli? Ooo, that’s kind of fun, to be three letters together! Charles, Eli, and Ian?

Ian and Leo might be better because they have the 3-letter thing but they don’t share as many sounds. Charles, Ian, and Leo. I love that.

Ian and Isaac would give you matching initials but with non-matchy sounds.

John and Isaac are nice together without being matchy.

Simon and Isaac share the same number of letters, and also that nice strong I-sound.

Simon and Oliver are nice together without being matchy.

Elliot and Oliver share the same number of letters and syllables, as well as the L-sound, and I love how they also tie in to the L-sound of Charles.

Oliver and Jasper share the same number of letters and also the -er ending.

Asher and Felix don’t quite seem like they’d fit in with your style, but both of them mean lucky.

Isaac mans “she laughed,” and I think the implication of surprised delight (the meaning comes from the Bible, where a woman barren and now also post-menopausal finds out she’s pregnant at last) makes it a particularly good name for an unexpected child: it would make a good name for the second twin, since he was the surprise.

Felix and Isaac share the same number of letters and mean, respectively, luck and surprised delight. It’s a nice combination for twins.

Asher and Bennett have good meanings (lucky and blessed), and also work nicely for twins A and B. (Plus, as with all the other A&B combinations, your children’s initials would be A, B, and C. But I don’t recommend this if it would make you feel pressured to continue it with the next child.)

Two of my favorite Celtic names are Declan and Cormac. Dec and Mac are adorable nicknames.

Some of these pairings might also make a nice first-middle combinations: Isaac Simon. Asher Bennett. Oliver Simon. Miles Elliot. Oliver Elliot. Ian James. Etc.

Since you don’t have particular middle names in mind, I love the idea of using one twin’s first initial as the other twin’s middle initial. So for example, if you went with Andrew and Brendan, it would be fun to name them Andrew Bennett and Brendan Asher (if those initials don’t spell anything awkward with the surname). Or Nicholas and Christopher could be Nicholas Cormac and Christopher Nathan. Or Ian and Leo could be Ian Lachlan and Leo Isaac.

Baby Girl You-dell

Erin writes:

I have been following and commenting on your blog for many years now (before I was married even), and here I am finally writing to you and your readers for help with an actual baby! (a book, sorry about that, feel free to edit)! I am Erin, my husband is Brian, and our last name sounds like you-dell (accent on the dell). We chose our last name together as a mixture of our surnames but didn’t realize how it would limit us from almost all french baby names ending in L, many of which I love (ie Noelle). This is our first baby, due in March, but we don’t know what we are having yet. We anticipate having two children, possibly three, but for naming purposes I am thinking of the sibling set in terms of two, as I’m fairly confident we can come up with a third we love if need be. Here are our lists:

Boy names we both agree on:
Griffin (he loves)
Everett (I love)
Owen (friends just named their son this, its extremely popular where we live but we both love)
Josiah (too old testament? The other three are pulling away from this candidate)

Girl names we both agree on:
Audrey (we both love and is current front runner, but I always wanted to stay away from girls names ending in y or ie for various freakonomics reasons – namely that those names give the impression of “least smart” according to the studies. Also, sometimes I have trouble with the Odd and the “DR” sound rolling off my tongue. Wondering if there will be confusion with all the Aubreys out there. Stylistically though, this is exactly what we are looking for).

Lilah (he loves more than me, we also have a dog named Lola – is it a little frilly to yell at her soccer game?)

Clara (he loves more than me, I find a bit frumpy in feel but love the acoustic value of it)

Eliza (I love more than him)

Genevieve (he loves, I have trouble with all the nn possibilities – and would hate if her name was shortened to Gen. I took Madeline off the list because of the Maddie nn, but I am hoping for an Eve or Evie/Eva nn out of Genevieve)

Claire (I love, this is my mothers middle name who I would like to honor and together with our last name Claire reminds me of my favorite classical piece, Clair De Lune – but he finds a bit plain so I am definitely willing to move to middle name spot)

Elizabeth (mostly because we both love Liz/Lizzie. My middle name is Elizabeth though, so it feels a bit narcissistic to use this as a first).

Sienna and Annika are also high on the list, but don’t match the others in style (they do seem to fit alright with eachother, though, I think).

To give you an idea of names we don’t agree on, here are a few of his:

boys:
Jameson
Evan
Holden

Girls:
Eva
Naomi
Alexandria
Teagan
Mackenzie

and mine:
boys:
Grant

girls:
Mia
Colette (LOVE, but he does not care for)

Names that are OUT (but we like):
Oliver
David
Timothy
John
Eric
Madeline
Leah
Lydia
Brianna
Catherine
Greta
Megan
Lauren
any elle names (adele, noelle, etc. because of our last name)
any names beginning with F (because the initials would be horrid)
any names ending in a ya sound, including names like Amelia and Cecilia (because when said fast, you get a ya-ya effect with our last name).

For middles we would like to honor family. for girls the middle will be Claire if the first is not Clara or Claire after my mom, and for boys we are working with Curtis, Gerard, Emory, and a host of other kind of blech names. Curtis or Gerard would be for my father however, and since we are closest to him, would be the best ones to use. My dad is a pretty laid back guy though, and wouldn’t care too much if he werent honored and my mom was.

Ready for a weird restriction? I can’t stand long A sounds, so names like Amy, Katie, Jane, Rachel etc. don’t really work. Same with boys (no Ames or Aiden or any of that). I truly get a bad taste in my mouth when I say long As, so I don’t want to have that every time I say my child’s name. I don’t even love short A sounds like Abigail or Alexandria but Ah sounds (like Annika and Audrey) are just fine. Have you ever heard of that before?

I would prefer shorter, one or no nickname names, but husband likes nn’s more. In a perfect world, the name would be of Irish, French or German origin, but we haven’t found a lot of those that we love that aren’t already on the list. I am tempted to name all my potential children (two boys, boy and girl, two girls) now and have it set going forward, but my mind has already changed so much since I’ve gotten pregnant, who knows where I will be in a few years. I do know that from our lists, we have a lot in the same categories that would work as sibling sets, so I am not as worried about that (if I have Sienna, I will probably opt for an Annika next, and if I have a Lilah, I will opt for a Clara or Audrey next – Elizabeth and Genevieve (Liz and Eve). Eliza works with almost all of them). Griffin and Owen or Everett and Audrey, there are combos that work. I am having a hard time imagining cradling my baby and calling him or her things, but I have been trying. My problem is I love all the names I will have to discard, and I can find something wrong with all of the names I have chosen after I say them over and over again. Will I ever be satisfied or know which one is THE ONE? Please help us narrow down our choices! New suggestions I am open to too, but I am sure I have already considered all the options, as I am a true name nerd! Sometimes,
though, it takes having someone else re-suggest it for you to really feel it, so I’d definitely reconsider other names!

In terms of popularity, I’d like to stay out of the top 10 or so, but if a name is classic and pretty popular (like Elizabeth) I am ok with that. I am a little afraid Lilah or Clara will be the next Emma, though, given the trajectories of the names. For whatever reason, I don’t have the same panic about picking boys names as I do girls names, and I can’t explain why. The girl name has to be perfect, whereas the boy name I just have to like well enough. I will be finding out what I am having in November and will update you then! Sorry for the book, I just really care about this! Thank you so much!

and

We are having a girl! Now that we know we can get down to business, although as excited as I am to get to name a daughter, I also feared it! She is our first baby, we may have 2-3 kids, but we can find things in similar styles that we like for a sibset. We thought we were settled on a name (Audrey Claire) but found out a cousin of my husband’s who neither of us like just named her daughter that, which has soured us a bit. I think we were both looking for a reason out of the name too, if that makes sense – I didn’t love that people would confuse it with Aubrey, and that it didn’t have any nicknames, and the weight of the “OddR” sound, though I loved the style of the name.

Our current choice is Eliza Claire. A couple of questions about it – my middle name is Elizabeth, and my mother’s middle name is Claire, so is Eliza Claire family name overkill? I don’t want to seem narcissistic and name the baby after me, and while we considered Elizabeth for awhile, I think we’ve come down on the side that Elizabeth is too much mine and feels overused. On the other hand we like the spunk and freshness of Eliza, still feel connected to it, and feel as though it takes on a different style and personality than Elizabeth.

What I’d like to know is if you or your readers agree? One thing I still hear from people is that Eliza is not its own stand alone name, but a nickname for Elizabeth. Thoughts? Also, DH loves the nn Lizzie for when she is little and Liz or Liza Claire for later, do you think it will be difficult to get people to call her Lizzie when the vowel sounds are different from Eliza? Obviously, many Katherines go by Kate, but in this instance I wonder if its a bit weird. Last question, if I use all my favorite family girl names on this girl and have a future daughter, then what? Should I save one of the names just in case?

Our short list for girls is below, we will very likely choose something from this list if it is not Eliza or Audrey as we have been through every other name in the book a million times over, but feel free to suggest something else too. I have some odd restrictions in that I don’t like long A sounds as in Ava or Kaylee, names that start
with a short A as in Abigail, names that end in “elle” sounds as in Adele and names that end with a “ya” sound, as in Cecilia for purposes of going with our last name. You have my names we cannot use list from the previous email too.

Top tier

Eliza Claire
Sienna Claire
Annika _____ (I’m reading that there are pronunciation issues with this one, I would pronounce it Ahn-i-ka, accent on the first syllable. Is that how you would?)
Lilah Claire
Genevieve Claire (Eve or Evie, possibly Genna)
Claire Alexandria

Still being considered:
Audrey Claire
Eva Claire
Clara ____

If this baby had been a boy, we were considering Grant, Everett, Griffin (top choice) and Owen.

This may be a request for reassurance more than a question, but hopefully you and/or your readers can help me feel confident in a name!

Thanks for your help!

 
I am first going to do a sweep through this whole thing, giving my answers to questions and commenting on major issues; this will help sort them for other opinions in the comments section as well.

1. I don’t think Lilah seems too frilly to yell at a soccer game. I think one reason the name is getting so popular is that it seems right for many types of girls.

2. Yes, I’ve heard of people disliking certain sounds right across the board: short-A endings, K sounds, J sounds, B sounds, -den endings that are more like d’n, that sort of thing.

3. I think it’s a little annoying of our culture to consider it perfectly natural to name a child after the father but not after the mother. But when it’s the mother’s middle name, and especially a variation on the mother’s middle name, I think it’s nearly a non-issue: most people won’t even know.

4. Eliza is definitely a name in its own right.

5. I don’t think Eliza Claire is family-name overkill. I think it’s great.

6. A general warning about the middle name Claire is that it can change to “éclair” with some first names.

7. I don’t think of Liz as a nickname for Eliza: the changed vowel sound is also what makes me feel like Eliza is not a natural nickname for Elizabeth, so that shows you how much weight you should give the opinion (especially since I am fine with Kate for Katherine and Meg for Margaret, Because It’s Traditional). I’m sure you can use Liz or Lizzie if you want to; most people are not as conservative about nicknames as I am.

8. I definitely think of Eliza as a different style from Elizabeth, same as you do.

9. Saving names is a difficult issue. Because it’s a gamble, it has to be treated that way: weighing on one side how disappointed you’d be if you didn’t get a chance to use a favorite name, and on the other side how stressed you’d be to have used up the names and need to come up with a different plan. In this case, I’d be in favor of using both names, because you don’t want to miss the chance to honor your mother. I’d feel differently if you were cramming in a ton of honor names, but this sounds more like you happen to want to use a name similar to your own middle name, and then you want to honor your mother. Since you’re even a little uneasy about seeming as if you’re honoring yourself, it seems more like one honor name and one sweet connection name.

10. Yes, I pronounce Annika ON-nicka. I have heard from other people that that they’ve encountered Annikas who pronounced it ANN-nicka, so both pronunciations are in use.

I think Eliza Claire is the best option. It gives you what you want, and it sounds as if you like it best. It also gives you the most flexibility with future sibling names, since you’ve mentioned you like it with almost all the other options. Eliza You-dell is a great name, and it’s one I’d want for myself.

I also think you have a lot of other nice possibilities, if Eliza doesn’t sit right. You’ve been reading me long enough to have heard me preaching against the concept of The One Perfect Name, but I do like to feel a sort of CLICK as a name settles into place. You may find that several names click nicely, and this can make it harder to decide—but it also means you have a nice group of names that would ALL work well. And if you regret letting a certain name go, perhaps you will have a chance to use it on a future child.

It IS hard to choose a name: the “forsaking all others” aspect is daunting, and I think it’s inevitable that a baby name hobbyist will have some names she’ll always regret not having been able to use. I find it helps to realize that EVERY name means letting go of all the others: there will be some sadness with EVERY name, and the task is to find the one you’d be saddest not to use. You might also find it useful to revisit Choosing Between Two Finalists (which also works for more than two finalists).

Baby Girl Math-E, Sister to Isla Juliet

Jacquelyn writes:

We need your help! Our second daughter, and most-likely last child, is set to arrive this March, and we are going in circles trying to name her. Our first daughter is Isla Juliet, last name sounds like Math-E. Although we didn’t foresee Isla becoming as popular as it has, we continue to adore it. It falls in the short and sweet category that we prefer, and feels feminine and spunky at the same time. We would like to give this baby a moniker with similar qualities, yet not projected to skyrocket the charts as her sister’s did. We are confident that the perfect name is waiting to be unearthed…and you can help us do that!

There are several names that have been on and off of our list, including Lucia, Eva, Cora, and my husband’s all time favorite, Alba. We may be willing to reconsider these, but for some reason or another, they just aren’t feeling “right.”

As it stands, two names – and two names only – continue to be in the running:

Thea
Eleanor

We like both names well enough, but have found problems with each. With Thea, we worry that that the repeating “thee” sound in our first and last names is too much. And while Eleanor is our top contender at this point, we only like the name as a whole. Is the ever-popular Ellie inevitable? Is Eleanor destined to be uber-popular? When it comes down to it, we feel that there could be a better choice out there that we just haven’t come across.

I should also mention that we have yet to choose a middle name, but will be keeping with family tradition and giving our daughter a “J” name like my husband and his brothers’, mine and my sisters’, and our daughter’s middle. So any suggestions there, while certainly not expected, would be of great help.

Thank you for taking the time to read our naming dilemma. We are grateful for your insight, and your opinions are highly valued and so very appreciated.

I do think Thea Math-ee is too much ee and th.

Eleanor is rising steadily. In the 1980s, it was in the 600s. In the 1990s, it was in the 500s and 400s. In the first decade, it was in the 300s and 200s. And in 2010, it was #165. It’s not racing up the charts, but it’s going at a nice brisk walk.

But I wouldn’t necessarily let popularity rule out the name. For one thing, it’s hard to know how many little Eleanors will be called Eleanor. Many parents are choosing it as a way to get the nickname Ellie, and others are choosing it as a way to get the nickname Nora (which I’d be recommending to you because of its similarity to Thea/Isla/Cora, except it’s rising even faster than Eleanor). I do think it’s easier now to prevent people from using nicknames you don’t want them to use—but of course she might get older and choose a nickname for herself.

I wonder if a name like Linnea would appeal? Linnea and Eleanor share similar sounds, but Linnea ends up with a lighter touch—more like Isla. Isla and Linnea.

Linnea makes me think of Fiona. Isla and Fiona.

Fiona reminds me of Bianca, a name that’s approximately the same popularity but falling instead of rising.

I see that one of my mom’s favorite names is in The Baby Name Wizard as a sister name for Isla: Esme.

I think Audra has some of the rich sounds of Thea and Eleanor. Isla and Audra.

Instead of Thea, would you like Bria or Cleo or Delia or Freya or Gia or Mira or Opal?

You’ve probably spent a good deal of time in the J names already, but a few of my favorites are:

Jane
Jean
Jillian
Jo
Jolie
Josephine
Joy
June
Junia
Juniper

Baby Girl Garnet, Sister to Brendan and Bridget

B. writes:

I never thought I’d need baby name advice, but here I am. I have a 4 year old son, and a less than one year old daughter and I am unexpectedly pregnant with baby #3 (definitely the last) due in April 2012. Our last name rhymes with Garnet (emphasis on first syllable). My son is named Brendan and my daughter is Bridget. We didn’t necessarily plan on two names with Br- but we didn’t see it as problematic either. They were names we both loved and had family connections.

Middle name: Probably going to be Maria in honor of my mother-in-law. Less concerned with it working with middle as I am with last.

Names we’ve considered:

Brynn (I like, husband doesn’t, and is it too cute to have three names have Br- starts?)
Fiona (husband loves, not sure I do. Shrek association?)
Bevin (I like, husband doesn’t)
Ellen (I don’t love, maybe variations? Kind of like Ellie as a NN)
Nora (probably out because of negative family association)
Maeve (probably out because of negative family association)

Names that are out (due to use by family): Claire, Kayleigh, most anything ending in -een (Maureen, Eileen, Kathleen, etc.), Meaghan, Catherine. I generally don’t love the idea of a hugely popular / trendy girl name (there goes Ava, Olivia, Emma, etc.) Husband likes Isabella. Feels far too popular/trendy for me. As you can see, we (generally) like Irish sounding names, but my husband balks at the more traditional names with spellings that don’t “match” the pronunciation (see, e.g, Aisling, Aoife, Niamh) — though I’ve advocated a phonetic variation like Neve.

I could really use some fresh suggestions and a new perspective.

Thanks!

 
I think I might not do a third Br- name in a row (I wouldn’t rule it out, either, but it’s a very distinctive theme so I’d want to be sure it was what I wanted), but I think I WOULD be hoping to find a B name I liked: a B name would keep the third child from standing out, but would also keep the theme from seeming too forced/cute. Some possibilities:

Brendan, Bridget, and Beatrix
Brendan, Bridget, and Bethany
Brendan, Bridget, and Bianca (similar to Fiona, but no ogre)

The trouble is, a LOT of good girl B names are Br. If you do go that route, I’d look for ones that have a distinctively different sound (i.e., not Brenna because it’s so close to the Bren of Brendan; not Brecken because it shares not only the Br but also the short-E and the N-ending of Brendan). I’ve put Brinley on the list because the -ley adds such a different sound—but the short-I and the N might make it too close to the Bren of Brendan and the Brih of Bridget. (Spelling it Brynley might remove some of the visual similarity, and also give you the Brynn you liked.)

Brendan, Bridget, and Braelyn
Brendan, Bridget, and Bria
Brendan, Bridget, and Briar
Brendan, Bridget, and Briarley
Brendan, Bridget, and Brielle
Brendan, Bridget, and Briley
Brendan, Bridget, and Brinley
Brendan, Bridget, and Briony
Brendan, Bridget, and Britton (Britten? Brittyn?)
Brendan, Bridget, and Bronwyn
Brendan, Bridget, and Brooklyn

If I weren’t going to use B/Br, I might look for a name with a strong B/Br sound in the middle (Gabrielle, for example), or I might find some other tie-in: Margaret, for example, to echo the ending sound of Bridget, or a strong D sound to tie it to the D sound in each of the other names. Some of these might not work with the surname, depending how close it is to Garnet.

Brendan, Bridget, and Aubrey
Brendan, Bridget, and Cambria
Brendan, Bridget, and Danica
Brendan, Bridget, and Gabrielle
Brendan, Bridget, and Greta
Brendan, Bridget, and Gretchen
Brendan, Bridget, and Gwendolyn (too rhymey with Brendan?)
Brendan, Bridget, and Juliette
Brendan, Bridget, and Keelin
Brendan, Bridget, and Kendall
Brendan, Bridget, and Madigan
Brendan, Bridget, and Margaret
Brendan, Bridget, and Meredith
Brendan, Bridget, and Sabrina
Brendan, Bridget, and Violet

Since you like both Ellen and Nora, Eleanor would be a nice way to get the sounds of both while diluting the negative family association. I’m also reminded of Lauren.

Ellen and Bevin and Brynn and Maeve make me think of Evelyn.

Fiona makes me think of Bianca, and also of Ione, and also of Catriona (I’m thinking of the four-syllable cat-tree-OH-nah pronunciation, rather than the Celtic three-syllable cat-TREE-nah pronunciation).

Oh, or Rowan! It’s similar to Fiona, Ellen, and Bevin.

 

 

Name update! B. writes:

Maeve Teresa was born on 4/18.

We decided it was silly to choose a name we didn’t love just to keep the B “thing” going (Bonnie, though, was a strong contender for a while). Though I loved a few of Swistle’s suggestions for the ‘br’ sound elsewhere, husband wasn’t on board with any. One of the commenters generated a nice list of strong Irish girl names, but I had difficulty selling husband on most of them (Deirdre, Aislinn, Caitlin each was a contender at one point, as was Maura). We went into delivery pretty set on another name (Fiona), but neither of us thrilled with the choice. Then she was born, and she just looked like a Maeve, and we haven’t had one moment of naming regret since. Thanks for everyone’s suggestions and help!
maeve1

Baby Girl Northcutt, Sister to Reid and Jace

Meredith writes:

I enlisted your help a couple years ago in coming up with a name for our second boy. We are now pregnant again, and with a GIRL!!! But, we are once again having a hard time agreeing on a name. The middle name will be named after my husband’s grandmother, Jo. The name we like is Collyn Jo, but I’m thinking that after having 2 boys, I want a pretty, girly, feminine name and Collyn has a “boyish” ring to it. Our boys names are Reid Michael and Jace Ryan. Another name I like is Charlotte. Our last name is Northcutt, so something that flows well with that. Even though the boys both have one syllable names, I think our girl will need to have a 2 or 3 syllable name in order to go with Jo. Thoughts?

Thanks so much! I love how you put so much thought into the names!!!!

 
If you want to tweak Collyn to make it a little more feminine (though changing the i to a y already does a good job of making it clear to the eye if not to the ear), I suggest Calyn (rhymes with Alan), nickname Callie if you want it (an improvement on Collie). Calyn Jo Northcutt; Reid, Jace, and Calyn.

Another option, even more feminine, is Calla. Calla Jo Northcutt; Reid, Jace, and Calla.

Jo would also make a wonderful first name. Jo ______ Northcutt; Reid, Jace, and Jo.

Was Jo short for Josephine? That would be lovely, too: Josephine Northcutt is a wonderful name.

Collyn reminds me of Marin. Marin Jo Northcutt; Reid, Jace, and Marin.

Just sitting here mulling the brother names, I suddenly thought of Piper. Piper Jo Northcutt. Reid, Jace, and Piper.

I think Kiley would work wonderfully, too. Kiley Jo Northcutt; Reid, Jace, and Kiley.

I agree that the middle name Jo works best with a longer-than-1-syllable first name. If you would otherwise have liked the coordination of three 1-syllable names, a similar idea would be to give all three children 4-letter names. Some possibilities:

Ayla
Eden
Ella
Iris
Isla
Kaya
Kira
Lila
Lily
Maya
Mila
Ruby

Or you could choose a longer name to go with the middle name, but one that has a 1-syllable nickname. Laney Jo Northcutt—but Reid, Jace, and Lane. Rosalie Jo Northcutt—but Reid, Jace, and Rose. Caitlyn Jo Northcutt—but Reid, Jace, and Cait. Teagan Jo Northcutt—but Reid, Jace, and Teag. Skylar Jo Northcutt—but Reid, Jace, and Sky.

Or if Jo was short for another name, you could use that other name as the middle name instead, and then be free to choose a 1-syllable first name.

 

 

Name update! Meredith writes:

I really enjoyed all the thoughts, opinions, and suggestions I received from you and your blog readers on the naming of our baby girl! We’ve decided to go with Brynn Kathryn. Reid, Jace and Brynn. :)

Thanks again!!!

Baby Girl James, Sister to Max Oliver

Elena writes:

My name is Elena and my husband Oliver and I are expecting our second baby – a girl – who is due on the 5th of January. We have a son named Max Oliver, and we absolutely adore his name. Fortunately we do not have the problem of being unable to agree on any names. We have three girls names that we would be happy to use in a heartbeat, but they have some issues that may make them unsuable. Middle name will be either Elena or May after me (family tradition).

Our top name is Alaia, uh-LIE-uh. There is the obvious problem of “a liar”. Infact when I told my mum that we loved Alaia her response was “Alaia? Like a liar? That could cause some problems.” Although the next day she told me that she actually really liked it, after she thought more about it. It sounds sooooo pretty when you don’t think of “a liar”. But I would hate to give my daughter a name that gives her grief. Another problem is that Elena and Alaia are kinda similar sounding, though I do go by Elle 80% of the time. So what do you think? Is Alaia usable? If we used Alaia she would be Alaia May.

Our second name is Ruby. Max and Ruby. Like the childrens TV show. Does that make Ruby unusable for us? We LOVE it, and we love how Max and Ruby sound together, but does it seem tacky? Like we were trying to copy the TV show? She would be Ruby Elena. Max Oliver and Ruby Elena. Oh it’s so cute! We are hoping to have one more baby, so if we had Max, Ruby and Theo (our favourite boy name) does that make it better?

Our third name is Mia. It comes with little problems, such as the repeating ‘M’ initial. Max and Mia. I think it sounds cute, but I don’t know if it’s too cutesy and tacky. We also know a few little girls named Mia, so I don’t know if it’s a bit popular (I know Ruby is popular too (at least in Aus), but we don’t know any). Also the middle name is an issue, Mia May sounds way too cutesy, but Mia Elena doesn’t sound right either because of them both ending in ‘a’. So yeah, I’m just not sure.

Our last name is James, so we really want a girls name that is clearly feminine. Some other names we have considered, but aren’t using are:
Scarlett
Amaia
Raina
Amelia

And like I said before, our favourite boy name is Theo, so if we have another boy this will most likely be his name!

So what do you think Swistle and readers? Are these names usable or unusable? Maybe a poll could be helpful. Suggestions for other names would be great too!

Another issue with Alaia is pronunciation: I wouldn’t have known how it was pronounced, and probably would have tried “ah-LAY-yah” first (I’d be thinking, “Maybe it’s like Alaina, but without the N”). After finding out the actual pronunciation, I noticed I immediately started using “a liar” as a mnemonic to help me remember how to pronounce it—unfortunately reinforcing that connection.

Names similar to Alaia that might avoid the issues:

Eliza
Isla
Lila
Linnea
Maya/Mya (same middle name problems as Mia)

My favorite is Eliza: to me it sounds almost exactly like Alaia, but without the liar-sound and spelling/pronunciation issues. Eliza May James; Max and Eliza.

My kids watched Max and Ruby, so for me it’s an instant and deal-breaking connection. I think if you had another child in between a Max and a Ruby it would improve things somewhat—but still not enough for me to take it out of the category of “Names that were unfortunately eliminated by other names used.”

Names similar to Ruby that might avoid the issues:

Abby
Alice
Daisy
Darby
Embry
Ivy
Libby
Lucy
Pearl
Phoebe
Prudence
Sadie
Shelby
Silvie
Zoe

My favorite is Ivy: the sassiness of Ruby without a children’s television theme song springing to mind. Ivy Elena James; Max and Ivy.

I also like Phoebe. It has the sassiness and also the -bee ending of Ruby. Phoebe Elena James; Max and Phoebe.

Max and Mia are definitely very, very cute, but not in a way that makes me think Mia should be ruled out (i.e., just cute, not tacky). One concern is whether having two 3-letter, M-initial names will make you feel backed into a corner when choosing a name for a possible third child.

Names similar to Mia that might avoid the issues:

Calla
Cleo (but would rule out Theo for a future child)
Gia (maybe not with James)
Isla
Lia
Willa

My favorite is Willa. It’s sweet like Mia, without crossing the possible Too Cute line, or backing you into a corner later. Willa May James; Max and Willa.

I also like Isla, especially since it appears on two of the lists: it’s like a cross between Alaia and Mia. Isla May James; Max and Isla.

 

 

Name update! Elena writes:

Our little girl arrived a whole week early on the 29th of December. Oliver and I could not decide which name was our favourite, but we managed to narrow it down to Isla May and Lucy Elena. We had decided to wait until she was born to decide. When we met her, neither of us knew what name she ‘felt’ like. When Max came to meet her we asked him if we should name her Isla or Lucy, and he said Isla. So she became Isla May. We are all in LOVE with our Isla, and couldn’t be happier with her name. I also love that Max got to choose her name…he tells everyone that he “choosed Isla”!

Thank you Swistle and to all who commented!

Baby Girl Wice, Sister to Natalie and Noelle

M. writes:

I am hoping that you can help me with our baby girl name conundrum. My husband and I have two little girls and are due to expect our third (and final) child in January. Since all reports seem to show that this child is a girl, we are looking at the girl name list for a third time! Our other daughters are Natalie Sage and Noelle Juniper. While Natalie and Noelle both are Christmas names, we named them those names because we liked the sound of the names and not because they had to do with Christmas. We are not looking for another N name, nor are we particularly interested in continuing the Christmas trend, although it would have been Nicholas if the child was a boy. We also are fond of nature middle names since we love hiking and the great outdoors. Our last name is very similar to Wice (rhymes with mice). Our short list for first names includes Alaina (Lainey), Victoria (Tori), Amelia, Avery, and Rachel. Our short list for middle names includes Wren and Acacia. I am a little concerned about some of these names becoming too popular. I don’t mind a trendy name but don’t want my daughter being one of three with the same name in kindergarten! We are not necessarily locked into our short lists and are open to new ideas. What name do you think we should choose for our last little girl?

Popularity is such a tricky thing. Going by statistics alone (which is dicey, since the statistics are national and might not be played out in as small a sample as a classroom), Amelia is #41 and rising. Alaina is #207, but combining it with spellings Alayna, Elena, Elayna, Alena, and Elaina (most of which are rising, but not rapidly) brings it to #36—and adding in Lainey and Laney (which I wouldn’t normally recommend because it’s misleading, but just to give the idea for classroom-duplication-likelihood purposes) would bring it to #23. Victoria is #32 and gradually falling in popularity. Avery is #23 for girls and rising rapidly, but it’s also used for boys, which increases even further the likelihood of another Avery in a classroom. Rachel is least common at #100 and falling briskly—though my mother taught in Christian schools and it’s much more popular there, so it depends on your own circle. For comparison, Natalie is #14 and Noelle is #366.

With Natalie and Noelle, my favorite is Alaina (visually I think I like it even better as Elena, but that does make the nickname harder to spell; Elaina, maybe? but then the initials are EW, so never mind this whole parenthetical). But neither middle name seems quite right with it (I like it with Wren, but then Wren Wice seems choppy and difficult to say—although middle/last flow is not typically a big deal).

I think Ivy and Holly would both be sweet nature-theme middle names: not TOO Christmassy, more like “botanical names that just happen to be cool with the Christmas theme in case that appeals to anyone to keep that going.” Alaina Ivy Wice, or Alaina Holly Wice.

I also think the name Laurel works beautifully: Alaina Laurel Wice. Or Hazel: Alaina Hazel Wice. For something more whimsical, I have a soft spot for the name Clover: Alaina Clover Wice. For the sweet birdness of Wren without the choppiness with the surname, I like Starling: Alaina Starling Wice. (And the “star” part makes it just a little Christmassy. I know you said you’re not looking for that, but I’m finding it such an appealing theme!)

I thought I might look for a few more first name candidates, and I started by looking up Natalie in The Baby Name Wizard to see what categories she put it in—and she has Noelle for a suggested sister name! Since she seems to have your number, I wonder if you’d like any of the other suggested sister names: Gabrielle, Brooke, Jacqueline, Bethany. Or for Noelle: Simone, Lea, Eden, and Giselle. I like Bethany and Simone best. Bethany Acacia Wice; Natalie, Noelle, and Bethany. Simone Acacia Wice; Natalie, Noelle, and Simone.

I love Clara with the sister names and with your surname, and the very subtle Christmas tie-in (I can’t stop!) is that that’s the name of the little girl in The Nutcracker. Clara Starling Wice; Natalie, Noelle, and Clara.

Or Eva (slight Christmas Eve tie-in, if you want it). Eva Wice; Natalie, Noelle, and Eva.

If you decided to go with a third N name after all, I think both Naomi and Nora are wonderful. Naomi Wice; Natalie, Noelle, and Naomi. Nora Wice; Natalie, Noelle, and Nora.

Baby Boy Faith, Brother to Cade and Colin

Candice writes:

Help please!
I am due in about 10 weeks with our third boy. We have Cade Bryan, who is 5, and Colin David Franklin, who is 3. Colin’s middle names are his 2 grandpa’s names, so we are set on honoring family. I am Candice and my husband is Bryan, and our last name is Faith. So obviously ‘Christian’ is not an option. We are having a hard time naming this last child! We are mainly looking at B or C names, but not exclusively. We like names that are somewhat unusual. Being a teacher, my goal is to not have my children be in class with someone of their same name. (although Cade has gotten quite popular since we picked it.) Here is the list we are considering, but by no means are we only going to use one of these. We are open to any and all suggestions! The top 7 are marked, the others are in no particular order. If this baby were a girl, she would have been Brinley or Lucy.

–Bryson
–Chase
–Owen
–Carson
–Max
–Cayson
–Cameron
Colter
Calum
Cyler
Camden
Casey
Coleman
Blake
Bryden
Brecken
Cole
Carlin
Kai
Brennan
Cruz
Andy

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! thank you!

 
The name Cade had a peak in 2001 at #201, but since then has been steadily getting less common:

(screenshot from SSA.gov)

(screenshot from SSA.gov)

The name Colin is significantly more common than Cade, but has also been much steadier in its popularity ranking, which makes its popularity less noticeable. (Combining it with the spelling Collin, the name would be #70 in 2010.)

(screenshot from SSA.gov)

(screenshot from SSA.gov)

If your primary goal is to try to avoid classroom duplicates, I’d cross Owen off the list: it was #47 in 2010 and it’s still climbing. Max is trickier to figure out: it was #98 in 2010, but combined with Maxwell and Maximus (two of the more common long-forms) it’s already up to #46 so I’d cross that one off too. Brycen/Bryson together are #95; that’s getting more comparable to the popularity of the name Colin. Chase is #66 (and sounds like a command when paired with the surname); Carson/Karson is #71. I’d scratch off Cameron: Cameron/Camron/Kameron/Kamron was #40 in 2010, but it’s also used commonly for girls so that increases the chances of a classroom duplicate.

So from your list of favorites, I’d say Cayson is the best choice for avoiding classroom duplication. Even combining it with Cason, Kason, and Caysen, it was still only #253 in 2010: about as common as Cade/Kade, but still much less common than Colin and all the other candidates.

But the statistics are national so can be misleading: certain areas tend to have more of certain sorts of names. And statistics don’t take into account how similar the names Cade and Cayson sound: I think there might be some trouble with people getting the sounds confused and ending up with Case and Cayden.

So I think if I were you I might go with a riskier-but-still-not-TOO-risky name from the finalists: Brycen or Carson, I think. Either of those is uncommon enough to be statistically unlikely to have two in a classroom, but quite different in sound from Cade and Colin. If you might have more children later on, I’d choose Brycen to introduce the second possible initial early on. If three is it, I’d lean more toward Carson.

Or, I might move down into the list of alternates. Is Cyler pronounced with a soft C like Cyrus and Cyril, or is it the same as Kyler? If it’s a respelling of Kyler, I think I wouldn’t use it because of mispronunciation hassles. Colin and Callum are hard for me to say together, and Cole seems like a blend of Cade and Colin, but I think Colter or Coleman would work great: they LOOK like they’d sound too similar to Colin, but they don’t. Camden also seems like it would work very well.

 

 

Name update! Candice writes:

Thank you for your input and the advice of your readers! We have decided to go with Bryson Benjamin Faith. We have had some negative comments from family and friends that thought we should go with another ‘C’ name because we have Cade and Colin, but we think Bryson fits well with our family, especially considering my husband is Bryan. Thanks again for your help! Bryson should be joining us soon, and I’ll be sure to send a picture when he gets here!

Baby Naming Issue: A Grandmother Insisting on a Naming Tradition

Kristen writes:

I am pregnant with my second baby due in April, and not only are we having trouble choosing the name of this little angel, but it seems that our 1 1/2 year old daughter’s name is also again a subject of the name game… First of all, my name is Kristen and my husband’s name is Angelo- I’m surprised our names are not up to debate. Our last name sounds like Scorus, my husband comes from Greece. Our daughter’s name is Seraphina Madelyn Scorus – we just loved Seraphina and Madelyn was my Gramma’s middle name. We call her Phina most times. I also have a 16 year old stepson traditionally named after my husband and his father- Angelo Jorge. Anyway… we do not know the sex of this baby although if he is a little boy we have settled on Atticus Maximilian. All the aforementioned drama occurs around a little girl’s namesake.

We recently learned via a random, and very loud might I add, 2am phone call from Greece that my huband’s very lovely, and very traditionally Greek, mother has used the 1 1/2 years following Seraphina’s birth to stew on the fact that we did not name her Hericklia after her. Ok I went the unique, religious, traditional route with Seraphina and I am willing to push the name envelope, but I wouldn’t even be sure what font to choose for the name Haricklia on baby announcements. And if you’re wondering, yes we tried to satisfy this request with Lillian or Lili as a variation, even Harriet, but it’s a no-go on the moniker route. I really don’t think it’s even our middle name style unless Swistle creates a miracle here. Which is entirely possible I’ve read.

So here I am, listening to advice ranging from “follow tradition” to “it’s your baby, don’t listen to anyone else.” Whatever. Over it. My little girl can have two middle names and my mother (Ginger by the way, oh my goodness) at least understands my predicament and isn’t insisting on including her name. Either that or the love of her future granddaughter has caused her to understand the possible effects of the name Haricklia Ginger or, Ginger Haricklia for that matter, stamped on her report card. So all I can think of is adding a third name, but my first daughter has only two. And this only semi-solves one problem- we still can’t think of a female sibling name for Seraphina Madelyn, regardless! We’ve liked Scarlet (but Scarlet Scorus probably not), Charlotte (but we neither live in the city nor the web) and Genevieve (Umm it’s okay we guess and Ginger appeared on it’s nickname list- proof that I am not entirely an undutiful daughter). Oh, and the whole situation is compounded because due to medical complications, this baby blessing is most likely our last. Oh mighty Swistle, OH MIGHTY SWISTLE, help! Please? Or maybe I can just place an order for a little boy;)

Thank you very much!

If I’m following along correctly, the Greek tradition is to name the firstborn son after his father, and the firstborn daughter after the father’s mother? So the tradition was followed for your husband’s first child, but then was broken for his second. Is it possible that your mother-in-law isn’t even asking to have her name used for the possible second daughter, but is just letting you know she’s still mad about the first one?

It seems to me that if your mother-in-law is accepting no compromises on the name, it’s unlikely she’d be satisfied by a compromise of the entire tradition (by using the name on a secondborn daughter instead of the first). Nor does it sound as if she’d settle for the second middle name slot. I think at this point it is up to your husband to say to his mother that the first daughter has already been named without following traditions, and that it wouldn’t be right to give the firstborn daughter’s naming tradition to the secondborn daughter.

However: I am aware that it is one thing to talk about how other people should handle things in our imaginations (where every such confrontation leaves the problematic person speechless in the face of our logic and eloquence), and another thing entirely to implement such plans with real people in real families—especially if the people and families love each other and want to get along and want not to hurt each other’s feelings. It’s easy for me to say that both your mother-in-law’s name and her demands are unworkable; it’s another thing entirely for you to have to deal with the fallout while I sit over here and don’t have to take any phone calls about it. I do think firmness/resistance is justified here—but when dealing with someone who is already being unreasonable, I don’t think it will necessarily help, or work, or bring her to the point of seeing reason and understanding the decision. (Except in my imagination, where she is not only embarrassed about her demands, but also very sorry for waking up a pregnant woman.)

So. That brings us to what WILL work. WILL your mother-in-law accept her name being used as a second middle name, or will she interpret that as a slap? If she will accept it, I think that’s what you should do. It would bother me, too, that the sisters would have a different number of names, but it’s an easy thing to explain to them with an affectionate roll of the eyes. Your younger daughter can drop the name entirely later on in life, or perhaps she’ll like having her grandmother’s name and enjoy surprising people with it and then telling the story.

It would also bother me to be giving in to an unreasonable demand (I’m imagining if my late mother-in-law had been making baby-name demands, and I’m not sure that would have ended well for anyone)—but again, sometimes it’s the way these things go. A middle-name slot is probably worth it to avoid feuding and hard feelings. And I have some sympathy for her, if for example she winced while following these traditions with her own babies, and was thinking that the upside would be getting a dear granddaughter named after her. (DID she follow the traditions herself? If not, there’s your out! If so, it makes it harder.)

If only first-name status will please her, you’re stuck and you’ll have to make your decision: let your mother-in-law name your babies as well as her own using traditions that are hers but not yours, or prepare wearily to handle the consequences. It’s encouraging, though, that the consequence of not doing things her way with Seraphina’s name led only to one single 2:00 a.m. phone call a year and a half later.

I know you said your mother-in-law rejects Lillian and Harriet, but I wonder if everyone could come to an agreement on Ariclia. (I’m pronouncing it ah-RICK-lee-ah or air-RICK-lee-ah or air-reh-CLEE-ah in my mind, but perhaps all of these are too different from the pronunciation of Haricklia.) This removes the unfortunate “hair” issue of your mother-in-law’s name, while preserving much more of the essence of the name than Lillian/Harriet would. Ariclia seems exotic and usable to me (the names Erica and Leah make the sounds familiar), and a good sister name for Seraphina. I would suggest pitching it as “translating the name into English,” instead of as “removing the unfortunate/unusable parts.”

Another possibility is to see if she would be satisfied with ANYTHING ELSE. Would she accept a name with the same meaning as hers? Or her mother’s name? Is there a traditional nickname for her name that would be usable? Or could you use your husband’s grandmother’s middle name, to parallel the choice for your first daughter, and explain that THAT’S the naming tradition you’re using?

If the decision is made to use Haricklia as the second middle name, I like Felicity for the first name. I like Philomena even better, but I wonder if it’s too rhymey with Seraphina. Or Victoria? Seraphina and Victoria. Phina and Tori.

Ooo, or Anastasia! Seraphina and Anastasia! I love that so much.

Kalliopi is a Greek name that looks like a creative spelling but isn’t. I might use Calliope instead. Phina and Callie.

That makes me think of Penelope. Seraphina and Penelope. I love that too.

I know all these make for a very long name, but (1) my tastes run to long names for girls and (2) in this case, I’m inclined to think that when you’re stuck with two middle names and one is long, AND your first daughter has a long name, you might as well GO FOR IT, length-wise. Anastasia Charlotte Haricklia Scorus. Penelope Charlotte Haricklia Scorus. Genevieve Charlotte Haricklia Scorus. WORK that alphabet. Or, of course, use a shorter middle name for the first of the two: Anastasia Jane Haricklia Scorus, Penelope Kate Haricklia Scorus, etc.