Baby Boy or Girl Carlos, Sibling to Clayton and Chloe

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Kimberly writes:

Help! I’m literally losing sleep over a possible baby girl name. We do not know the sex of our third and final child, which will be here in less than 5 weeks! Our twins are 21 months old. Their names are Clayton Joseph and Chloe Grace. Our last name is Carlos. If we have a boy, his name will be Jackson James. I’d like to use Faith as the middle name if it’s a girl, but that’s not an absolute must. Since Clayton and Chloe are older names, I’d like to stick with that theme. Names we’ve considered, but I just can’t seem to commit to are:

Macie Layne (husband loves)
Ashby Faith (we both love, but not sure about the rest of the world!)
Olivia (beautiful, but so popular)
Sadie (very common dog name!)
Violet (I like, husband isn’t a huge fan of)
Harper (I like, husband says it isn’t feminine enough)
Ella
Avery

Please advise…I’m desperate and feeling so unprepared!!

 
I think the rest of the world would likely be fine with Ashby: it’s similar to the well-liked name Ashley but with a fresher sound, and surname names are currently in style. My main hesitation is the vast difference in popularity between the names Chloe and Ashby: according to the Social Security Administration, Chloe was #9 in 2010, but Ashby hasn’t been in the Top 1000 since 1907—and that was as a boy’s name. In 2010, there were 11,656 new baby girls named Chloe (and another 6,771 named Khloe/Kloey/Cloe/Cloey/etc, bringing the ranking from #9 to more like #3), and only 27 baby girls named Ashby.

Another hesitation is that Chloe is completely feminine in the U.S.—-but Ashby is unisex, used in 2010 for 18 boys.

Here’s why neither of these hesitations make me feel like you shouldn’t use the name: because neither of them FEEL true. Because of Ashley, the name Ashby seems more common and feminine than it is. Also, because the name Clayton falls somewhere between Chloe and Ashby (it was #252 for boys in 2010), it isn’t as jarring a feeling as it might be if you had Jacob, Emma, and Ashby—and even THEN, the “Ash” part makes it fit for me. AND you both love it, and I think there are few explanations more suitable for explaining away hesitations.

I do find Ashby a little difficult to say, however. The transition from -sh- to -by requires a mouth adjustment I guess I don’t usually have to make, and I find it sometimes means I say the ending with more of a P sound than a B sound: Ashpy rather than Ashby. Would you like the name Shelby instead? Shelby Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Shelby; Chloe Grace and Shelby Faith.

I have a slight preference for the spelling Macey over the spelling Macie, but I can’t put a finger on WHY. It would also give her a different ending than Chloe’s, which could be a plus or a minus.

If you love the name Olivia, I encourage you to use it. Its popularity is very close Chloe’s when alternate spellings are taken into account, and it really is a beautiful name. Olivia Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Olivia; Chloe Grace and Olivia Faith.

I think Sadie is well-established enough as a human name to be safe to use: it doesn’t fall into the “But that’s a DOG’S name!” category. But I understand if it rules out the name for you: once I’d met two dogs named Bijou, it made it hard for me to think of it as a possible baby girl name. Sadie is a traditional nickname for Sarah, so one possibility would be to use the name Sarah, and then try Sadie as a nickname; then if it DID bother you, you could drop Sadie and use Sarah or Sally instead.

Sadie makes me think of Laney, which can be a stand-alone or a nickname for another name; my favorite long form is Elena. Elena Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Elena; Chloe Grace and Elena Faith. I’m not sure if the repeating “ay” sounds of Clayton and Elena are too similar or if they tie the sibling group together nicely.

Delaney is another long form that would work. Delaney Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Delaney; Chloe Grace and Delaney Faith. Again the issue with the repeating “ay” sounds.

Avery is quite unisex, and I’m not sure that goes as well with the very feminine Chloe. But I don’t think it’s deal-breakingly unisex, especially since although the usage of Chloe is all-girl, the name itself is not particularly frilly.

Ava is more girly and not at all unisex. It’s also more common than Avery, but not a lot more common: #5 to Avery’s #23—and with alternate spellings such as Averie/Averi/Avarie added in, Avery is in the top 10. Ava Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Ava; Chloe Grace and Ava Faith.

I was about to suggest Harlow(e) to make Harper more feminine, and then realized that Harlow Carlos is not the best fit! If you like the -per ending, there’s also Juniper and Piper.

Ella is nice with Chloe, both in femininity and in popularity (it was #13 last year, and is even more common than that because of all the girls using it as a nickname for Elizabeth and Eleanor and so on). This is one of my favorites for you. Ella Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Ella; Chloe Grace and Ella Faith.

Stella would also be nice. Stella Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Stella; Chloe Grace and Stella Faith.

If you wanted to continue the Cl-sound theme, Claudia would work. Claudia Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Claudia; Chloe Grace and Claudia Faith. But I don’t think there’s any need to do so: the first two children being twins makes it even easier than usual to break the pattern for a third.

Georgia came suddenly to my mind when I was re-reading the letter. Georgia Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Georgia; Chloe Grace and Georgia Faith.

Or Molly. Molly Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Molly; Chloe Grace and Molly Faith.

Or Audrey. Audrey Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Audrey; Chloe Grace and Audrey Faith.

Oh, or Aubrey, since it’s more similar to Ashby. Aubrey Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Aubrey; Chloe Grace and Aubrey Faith. I really like that.

Ashby and Olivia make me think of Libby, which can be used as a stand-alone name or as a nickname for Elizabeth.

Your mention of Violet made me think of Charlotte. I like the way she’d have a Ch- start to her name like her sister, without having to repeat the Cl- sound. But do Charlotte and Carlos share too many sounds? Charlotte Carlos; Clayton, Chloe, and Charlotte; Chloe Grace and Charlotte Faith.

 

Name update! Kimberly writes:

Our sweet little boy is here! We were both surprised to hear the words, “it’s a boy” because we both thought it was a girl. Easton James was born on April 3rd and is just perfect! We love his name, which was inspired by the country music singer, Easton Corbin. His name literally changed days before his arrival. I was so happy my husband agreed to it. His twin siblings, Clayton and Chloe are adjusting well to their new brother! Thanks for your help!!

Baby Girl Cunningham, Sister to Jackson ("Brooks") and Emery

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Mackenzie writes:

Background on the family would include myself Mackenzie Ruth and my husband Jackson Elliot “Jack”. Our last name sounds like Cunningham and this baby girl, our third child together, is due on April 23rd, 2012. We have two older children Jackson Brooks IV “Brooks” and Emery Taylor “Emery”. Long story short, my son goes by his middle name as he is the fourth, his first name was not my first choice, but it is the “Cunningham” family tradition to name the first son Jackson, and Brooks is a more appealing, unique choice of a name. Everyone in our family calls him Brooks, he introduces himself as Brooks to new people and although he knows his name is Jackson, he prefers to be called Brooks and will correct people if they use the wrong name with him.

Then we have our sweet baby girl Emery Taylor. I wanted her to be named Emerson Taylor after my maiden name (Emerson) and a friend who passed away in high school (Taylor). But, there was another “Cunningham” tradition that was in the way. The middle name Marie is typically used for women on that side of the family, but I was very adamant on my name choice. We compromised and gave her the name Emery because it sounds like it incorporates Marie (although my husband did lobby for Emarie/Emerie but I just couldn’t do it).

Now we get on the subject (finally!) of baby girl #2. My husband now insists on using the middle name Marie (as we did not use it with Emery), but it doesn’t feel right to me. We named our son after the Cunningham side of the family and Emery is partially named for the Cunningham’s, although her middle name represents a childhood friend of mine. I feel it is time to honor my part of the family. Possible name that could be used as either a first or middle name would be:
Lillian, Catherine, Ruth, Elizabeth, Caroline, Hadley, Shea, or Addison

Names that we have also looked at have been:
Kennedy, Reagan, Leighton, and Kinley

The pressure has also been put onto us by both sides of the family. My parents are arguing that they is no namesakes after them (William Hayes and Lillian Elizabeth), while my husband’s family is arguing the debate of Marie as a middle name.

Please help us Swistle as it seems you can be the only person of reason in the situation. Please!

My first impulse is to go back in time and pressure the two of you to use Emerson instead of Emery: not only is “mother’s maiden name as child’s first name” one of my favorite family name ideas, but it’s a beautiful balance for the “named for his father” naming tradition of your first child.

If altering the name Emerson to incorporate Marie WASN’T enough to satisfy the tradition, then the name Emerson should have been left alone (otherwise the sacrifice was too great to justify the change); because of this, I decree conclude that that Marie tradition HAS been satisfied. Perhaps this will make more sense to your husband’s family if it is suggested to them that changing your family name from Emerson to Emery was like changing their family name from Jackson to Jacoby. You gave up a great deal for the sake of their tradition—and two must-use (as opposed to fun and optional) traditions from one family is unreasonable to begin with.

Meanwhile, it sounds as if both sides of the family are being pushy and disagreeable. No one may demand a namesake be used, or complain if it isn’t. Namesakes are honors not be expected, but rather to be received with happy, teary-eyed surprise. Both sets of your parents made their own baby-naming decisions for their own babies, and now the decisions are up to you and your husband. You may even need to point this out in a polite and loving way. (It will help even more if your parents didn’t use family names for you and your siblings, or if your husband’s parents felt at all burdened by their own need to follow traditions.)

Now that we have dealt with the grandparents, we need to deal with your husband. The children in this family all carry his family surname, is that right? First and middle names are not also to be chosen based solely on his and his family’s preferences; if anything, the fact that his family is honored in every child’s name already should tip the use of other honor names toward your side of the family, so that each full name represents both sides. The names are to be decided by the two of you together; there is no room here for insisting, or for acting as if traditions are requirements that trump the other parent’s naming rights. He was very fortunate to marry a woman who was willing to let her son be named by tradition; insisting also now on a “typically used” middle name tradition is pushing it.

(Not that these paragraphs of should-ing and shouldn’t-ing will do you much good if the other people involved disagree. But sometimes it is heartening to have others on your side, even if it makes no difference to the reality of the situation.)

With the name Emery, my favorite names from your family list are Hadley, Shea, and Addison. And although I feel outraged on your behalf and it makes me feel stubborn and resistant to this idea, I reluctantly mention that Hadley Marie would be pretty cute, and would be a nice way to give each daughter a name that’s a mix of mother’s and father’s sides.

But I prefer Hadley Elizabeth. Or Addison Hayes would be nice with Emery Taylor. I’m finding Shea harder to work with, and Shea Cunningham sounds a little like Chez Cunningham, so maybe I’d put Shea in the middle name slot instead: Hadley Shea, Addison Shea.

I especially like the idea of using your middle name Ruth, to give each daughter a tie to your name as your son’s name ties to his father’s. Hadley Ruth, Addison Ruth.

The names on your joint list (Kennedy, Reagan, Leighton, Kinley) are all great with Emery, but they don’t seem as good with Cunningham. Maybe Landry would work. Landry Cunningham; Emery and Landry. Because it’s a unisex name, I’d go definite-feminine for the middle name: Landry Ruth, Landry Elizabeth, Landry Catherine.

Or to get rid of the unisex aspect, Laney would work well. Laney Cunningham; Emery and Laney. Laney Shea is fun to say, or Laney Ruth, or Laney Elizabeth.

Or Shelby. Shelby Ruth Cunningham, Shelby Elizabeth Cunningham.

Lila isn’t exactly Lillian, but might please your mother anyway. Lila Cunningham; Emery and Lila.

Or hey, would you want to do another combined name like Emery? Lilabeth would reflect both of your mom’s names, and then if you did Marie in the middle maybe everyone would be happy. Lilabeth Marie Cunningham; Emery and Lilabeth.

Baby Naming Issue: Is an Altered Honor Name Too Much of a Stretch?

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C. writes:

Children are not anywhere close in the future for me right now, but I have been thinking of names and ways to honor my family members. My grandmother’s name is Irma, and I would like to use that name somehow. The problem is she strongly dislikes her name, and I am not a huge fan of it myself. The way I went around this was trying to find names that are similar. I thought of “Marie” and figured it could honor her since the letters to form “Irma” are included with an extra “e’.

Long story short, my question to you is do you think that Marie is too much of a stretch to honor my grandmother, Irma? I appreciate your help, thank you very much.

You’re asking a specific question, but I’m going to broaden the topic and answer more generally: it’s the sort of question that comes up frequently, and I’ve been meaning to write a post about it for the reference section.

I have two tests for whether an altered honor name is too much of a stretch—one test for each of the two reasons I’d use an honor name.

1. The first reason I’d use an honor name is to remind me of the person. I think of my grandfather every time I think of or tell the story of Rob’s middle name, which is my grandfather’s name. The test for this one, then, is “Will the altered name make you think of the person being honored?” It very well might: maybe every time you think of the name Marie, or every time you talk about the name with your future daughter, you’ll think of the clever solution to your grandmother disliking her name, which will of course make you think of your grandmother. Or maybe it won’t: maybe the name Irma would bring your grandmother instantly to your mind, but the name Marie has completely different associations for you, or you’d feel funny giving the explanation for it. The answer to this test will completely vary from situation to situation, because there are so many different variables: the person thinking about it, the person being honored, the particular name being used, the particular reasons for not using the actual name, etc.

2. The second reason I’d use an honor name is to please the person being honored, and to show them how highly I think of them. (Or to please/show other family members, if the honoree has died.) The test for this one, then, is “Will the person being honored get this message from the altered name?” That is, will your grandmother Irma feel honored by having a namesake Marie? (Mira would be another possibility.) Maybe so, especially if she wouldn’t want her own name used, and if you explained it to her as a workaround for this problem. You could test things out by bringing up the topic with her now, before there’s the pressure of an actual pregnancy—just a nice chat about all the family names you might want to use someday. She may even have a suggestion: her maiden name, her middle name, her mother’s name, her sister’s name, a name she always wished had been hers, her birthstone, her favorite flower, etc.

As part of this test I do an exercise where I turn the question around so it’s me and my name. It doesn’t work perfectly in this particular case (because I can’t think of a name that could be made out of all the same letters as my name), but for example I’d ask myself if, as a Kristen, I’d be honored by a great-granddaughter named something other than Kristen—and how far away from my name could it get before it didn’t feel like an honor anymore. Would I be honored by a little baby Kristin? How about by a little baby Christine? Kiersten? Kirsty? Krystal? How about by a baby Tristen or Trista or Christian? A baby Kira? Karys? How about by a Katelyn? A Tessie? An Eirlis? And so on. At which point do I stop feeling any personal connection to the name being used?

And because we’re on the topic of avoiding using a name someone has always disliked: If it seems important not to try to honor someone by using a name they dislike, it seems important to make sure the substitute name is not also one they dislike.

In general, my opinion is that every step away from the original name (either given name or always-used nickname) decreases the honor considerably—but that this can still be okay as long as everyone realizes that and treats it as such. The only time I get bad feelings about such things are when someone uses a name that’s way off (“We named the baby Amelia after you, Grandma Mildred!”) and wants the honoree to respond at exactly the same level of sentimental joy as if the actual name had been used. If I were Grandma Mildred, I think I’d be more pleased if someone instead said to me, “I was looking at a name book and noticed that both Amelia and Mildred were listed as long forms of Milly. So now your names are connected in my mind, and her name always makes me think of you!”

I also find it reassuring to keep in mind that even though an honor name is a great way to remind us of the person and show the person how highly we think of them, it’s not the only way to accomplish those things. Sometimes a name just doesn’t work out as a baby’s name, but there are many other ways to honor and remember someone you love.

Middle Name Challenge: Ellery ____ Montgomery

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A. writes:

My husband and I are expecting our firstborn Oct 2 2012 and while we already have a boy name picked out, we think we have a girl name picked out but cannot come up with a good middle name. We are 99% sure that if we have a girl, we will name her Ellery and call her “Elle” at times. We like the middle name Gray because we both love that color and thought that a middle name ending in the long “A” sound would flow the best. However, several people have told us that Gray sounds too gloomy to go with Ellery. We can’t use Mae as that is our niece’s middle name is Mae and we don’t like Rae. We would like a shorter middle name because our last name is Montgomery. My twin sister’s name is Skye and while I like that for a middle name, my husband doesn’t want to have any part of the name named after someone we know or are related to. Can you please suggest middle names to go with Ellery Montgomery?!

P.S., if our baby is a boy, we will name him Stellan Ford Montgomery as Ford is my maiden name.

Thank you!

 
I can see how the name Grey/Gray could sound gloomy, but it doesn’t ring that way for me. I think more of handsome grey business suits, sweet grey mares, pretty grey skies (which I like, but I know not everyone does), unusual/attractive grey eyes, dove grey gloves, and the fashionable wall color. And I think “We both love that color” is enough to reassure anyone who might wonder about gloominess. My mind immediately turns to the fun of finding pretty grey things for her nursery and wardrobe, and to maybe sometimes using the nickname Ella Grey.

My own personal preference is for the spelling Grey. For me it evokes all those more positive feelings about the word, while Gray makes me think of Gary.

I also think the sound of Ellery Grey is wonderful. My only hesitation is that Ellery Grey Montgomery has a lot of ery/rey endings for one name.

If you like the color aspect of Grey/Gray, you could go with Blue or Rose or Jade. Blue would give you a sneaky secret wink to Skye. So would Grey, for that matter, but Blue is a more positive-sounding wink—which is odd, now that I think of it, since “blue” is a synonym for sad. Well, there it is, though: blue skies mean cheeriness and grey skies don’t.

I think it would be fine to re-use a niece’s middle name if you love it, and could even be a sweet tie between the girls. But if you’d rather not or you suspect it wouldn’t fly with your niece’s parents, and if Rae is out, there’s also the vintage charm of Faye and Kay. Day would also be cute: Ellery Day. Or Ellery Eve is pretty, or Ellery Joy. Or Ellery June/Jane/Jean/Joan/Jo. Or Ellery Paige/Sage/Raine/Laine/Faith.

I think I like a 2-syllable middle name even better, rhythm-wise, especially if the emphasis is on the first syllable: Ellery LA-la Montgomery instead of Ellery la Montgomery. Other two-syllable examples: Ellery Eva, Ellery Iris, Ellery Nina, Ellery Hannah, Ellery Briar, Ellery Violet, Ellery Meadow.

Would you like Ellery Sterling Montgomery, or is that too much? Sterling evokes some of the same feelings as Grey for me, but with less potential perceived gloominess. On the other hand, that’s three names in a row with -er-, and Sterling’s traditional use for boys may tip the boyishness of Ellery further than you’d like. Ellery Silver Montgomery tones down the name a bit, but still has the -er- issue.

I hesitate to call a 99% favorite into question, but I think part of the challenge here is that Ellery and Montgomery have matching -ery endings and almost rhyme. As with all repeating name-sounds, this can be a positive or a negative: it can tie the name together pleasingly, or it can give it a stuttery or singsongy sound.

A name like Elena would eliminate the rhyminess while still leaving you with Elle. Elena Montgomery.

Or for something a little lacier, Eliana Montgomery.

Or for something a little less lacy, Ellis Montgomery. I’d go very feminine with the middle name, then; I probably wouldn’t use Grey. I like Joy or Jane: Ellis Joy Montgomery; Ellis Jane Montgomery.

Even less lacy: Ellison Montgomery. Again, I’d use a distinctively feminine middle name.

Or Elsa Montgomery. Very similar to Ella, but much less common.

I’m not sure Eliza would be your style, but it’s my style so it springs to my mind. Eliza Montgomery. That’s a name I’d like to have myself.

Reading over your letter again, I notice Stellan is your boy-name pick. Is this a name you would still like to use if you have a girl now and a boy later, or is it a matter of first-come-first-serve for the -ella- sound? If you’d like to use it later, that might affect which girl names I’d suggest: Elena and Stellan seem fine for sibling names, but Ella and Stellan would not work as well.

And since this is your first child, I’ll include a link to a more general post: Baby naming advice for first-time parents.

 

Name update! A. writes:

Just writing to update you that our daughter was born weighing 7 lbs 3 ounces, 19 inches long! The night before we found out the gender we had changed the boy’s name from Stellan to Lawson and at that point were up in the air about a girls name even though we were 99% sure beforehand that we would name her Ellery. We had received some mixed feedback about her name so we had been looking for other options and were considering the name Ayla. As soon as we found out we were having a girl we walked out of the sonogram knowing her name would absolutely be Ellery! We took your suggestion and spelled the middle name Grey vs Gray. Thanks for the help, we’ll be coming back when it’s time for our second child!! P.S. I still enjoy reading your blog and have referred several friends who are expecting!

Here’s a picture of our sweet Ellery and her beautiful lips!

Elle

Baby Naming Issue: Going By a Middle Name

39 Replies

Allison writes:

I may be imagining this, but it seems like I recall you writing once on your baby name blog about naming a baby with the intention of the baby going by his/her middle name. My husband and I are expecting a baby boy and are considering doing this–my only hesitation is the “pain in the butt” factor of having to correct people. Am I imagining that this has been a topic before? I searched the archives, but couldn’t find it. If it hasn’t been a topic, I’d be interested to get your readers’ thoughts on this as it is a hard decision (and one I certainly don’t want to regret if we wind up going for it and having to correct people daily).

Thanks for your help!

 
I know we’ve discussed it before, but darned if I can find it! Searching “middle name” gives me…pretty much every single post. And it might be one of those topics we’ve repeatedly discussed within a post, without it ever featuring as the main topic. So let’s discuss it as the main topic now.

I think going by a middle name works fine, but that to justify the hassle there should ideally be a good reason behind it. Sample good reasons:

1. You absolutely must use a family name you hate. You use it, but use the name you actually wanted to use as the middle name, and have the child go by that.

2. All juniors, thirds, fourths, etc.

3. Compromises, when nothing else works. I went to school with a boy whose parents couldn’t agree on the order of his names, not even at the very last second. So they flipped a coin, named him Adam Jason, and called him Jason. This made a good story on the first day of every school year.

3a. I can picture this also as a solution to a namesake issue, where the parents would like to honor both grandfathers but they want to make it as fair as possible, so they give the first-name slot to one grandfather, but the daily namesake use to the other.

Here’s an example of a reason I consider not worth it, but of course it will depend on each family and how they feel about it: reversing the names to improve the rhythm of the whole name. I worked with a woman whose parents wanted to name her Joy and give her the middle name Linda, but thought Linda Joy sounded better. So they named her Linda Joy, and called her Joy her whole life. She thought this was a huge pain in the buns, and wished her parents had just named her Joy Linda: the upside of having a better name rhythm was minor compared to the downside of corrections and forms and confusion and explaining. (She said she’d planned to change it after they died, but by that time she was well into her 60s and the hassle of changing every single legal document seemed overwhelming.)

I’ve also seen people do it because they thought the honor name had to go in the first-name slot, but didn’t want to call the child by that name. In which case I think it makes more sense to put the honor name in the middle-name slot, which is an excellent honor-name position and also removes the awkwardness about why exactly no one wants the child called that name.

I think, though, that regardless of the reason for doing it, the practice is common enough that the hassle, though steady and persistent, will stay at a minor and not particularly confusing level. “He goes by his middle name” is so short and easy to understand, and both you and he will get accustomed to responding to his first name at doctor appointments, on envelopes, at roll call, etc. It’s something you’ll have to say over and over again throughout your lives, but most of us have to say something over and over again about our names: “That’s with an -en,” “It’s an EES sound, like in Lisa,” “Yes, it’s French,” “No, I kept my own name,” “The K is silent,” and so on.

One more thing it’s good to keep in mind is that the child himself may choose to go by his unused first name later. This particularly applies if the parents are using a first name they dislike: it’s good to think out ahead of time that if the child prefers that name and chooses to go by it later on, it would be a tough argument to say that he shouldn’t use his own first name.

There! Have we covered all the situations? Does anyone have firsthand or secondhand experience with this, and can report on the level of hassle involved?

Baby Girl Marley, Sister to Joseph (Jed)

35 Replies

Nikki writes:

I love reading your blog and hope that you could be of assistance in naming our new little girl due in early April 2012.

We have a beautiful 22 month old boy named Joseph Edward – called Jed. I am Nikki (actually named Nicole) and Hubby is Joey (Joseph III… our son is a fourth!) Last name starts with an M and sounds like Marley. We are planning to have more children after this girl as well.

We had a horrible time choosing our sons name as I am a bit more out of the box on naming boys and my husband is more traditional. Our son was born at 35 weeks and we knew that he would be the 4th but did not decide on Jed until he was almost 3 days old! I really loved the idea of calling him Ford to play on the fourth or even Ward as a nickname from Edward… in the end Jed fits him perfectly and I am so glad that we chose it! I love that his nn is unique yet he has a classic name too if he ever wants to go by that when he gets older.

We are very excited about having a girl and I really want to get her name settled on early so we aren’t at the hospital unsure of what to call her! We both love the name Sloane but 2 friends have just used that name for their little girl. We both gravitate towards the more masculine sounding names for girls. We also really loved Hayes but I worry that it is too masculine and also not sure how I feel about it for when she gets older. That had me thinking of names that we might use to get Hayes as a nn and thought of Hazel. It doesn’t seem to jump out at me as the one though. This led me to Quinn which I love but can’t seem to get a middle name that works with it as I feel it needs a longer middle name. What do you think about the names we have on our list (really just Quinn and Hazel) and also any suggestions for names that are similar to them or Sloane that we might have missed?

Thanks so much for your help!

and

Well here we are at 33 and a half weeks and still nameless! I am starting to get really nervous as my son came at 35 weeks! Please help and I promise for an update from the hospital bed!

We do now have a top 5 list that we review nightly and are trying to slowly get down to our little girls name. So here it is in the order of our preferences… We are both happy using the middle name of Quinn with most of these names but open on that too!

1. Seraphina (nickname Phina) – like that it feels classic but still unique. Is it becoming trendy? Do people think of the Afflecks every time they hear this?

2. Fiona (nn Fia) – love the meaning and have never met anyone with this name! Will we be setting our daughter up for the Shrek teasing?

3. Karalina (nn Lina) – we like the Kara leena pronunciation? Would you pronounce this way?

4. Lilyana (n Lana) – love the name since I am due at Easter time. Not a fan of the Lily nn with our last name. Think that could be avoided?

5. Sophia (nn Phia) -love the name hate the popularity. Think that this will be a deal breaker.

We really want a unique name that is also not going to feel dated or weird with a fun nickname like our son has. Are we missing a name that fits this?

Thanks so much!

 
1. Seraphina. I immediately think of the Afflecks, but I think that will change with time as the name becomes more widely-used and the associations therefore become more diluted. I think of it more as the Afflecks making the name usable. But the celebrity connection can definitely give a name a “trendy” feel, even if the name isn’t very common.

2. Fiona. I’ve seen Shrek, and I’ve heard the connection mentioned periodically when the name is mentioned in a post, but it’s not one that comes to my own mind. I don’t know if children would tease about it or not. I’m hoping someone here has an elementary-school-aged Fiona and can report.

3. Karalina. I’m glad I pronounced it in my mind before reading the rest of the section, so that I can report that I first pronounced it with a LEE sound. If I encountered it out in the world, I would probably ask if it were LEE or LIE. Two similar possibilities: Karenna, Linnea.

4. Lilyana. I’m not sure if Lily could be avoided. Certainly this is a good generation for avoiding a nickname, and maybe if you set up the Lana thing early on? But Lana is not a natural nickname for Lilyana, and Lily is, so you may meet with resistance. Spelling it Lilliana could help a little: Lilyana visually suggests the nickname Lily. But if popularity bothers you, I suggest crossing this one off the list: the spellings and variations (Lilliana, Lilianna, Lilyanna, Liliana, plus all the Lillians and Lilys) add up to a very popular name. Would you consider going straight for Lana? That’s a name in its own right, and significantly less common.

5. Sophia. I think you can cross this off the list if popularity bothers you. It also seems like Joseph and Sophia might have too many sounds in common. (Even closer: I’d nearly suggested Josephina because of its similarity to Seraphina and Sophia, before remembering that your Jed is actually Joseph, as is your husband. Oops.)

A name that kept coming to my mind as I read the possibilities was Philomena. It has sounds in common with every name on your list, it’s not in any current danger of trendiness, and it’s unusual without being weird.

Another possibility is Willemina/Wilhelmina. I prefer the first spelling: it’s the one from my own Dutch family tree, but I also think it fits better with current styles and is easier to spell. This gives you the nickname Willa as well as Mina.

Both Philomena and Willemina also bring us around to the more boyish sound you were looking for in your first letter: Phil and Will/Wills are other possible nicknames.

A name similar to Sloane is Lane. Lane Marley; Jed and Lane. She’d also have the nickname Laney if she wanted something more feminine.

Or another idea would be to give your daughter a traditional name and unusual nickname, to coordinate with your son’s name and also to help avoid datedness and trendiness. Elizabeth, for example, with the nickname Beck. Joseph and Elizabeth; Jed and Beck.

Or I wish I could suggest Margaret with the nickname Daisy, but that probably won’t work with your surname.

If you decide to go back to Quinn as the first name, we did a Middle Name Challenge for that awhile back.

 

Name update! Nikki writes:

We are so very excited to announce that our beautiful daughter, Fiona Quinn was born on 3/29 weighing in at 6lbs 13 oz and nearly 2 weeks early. Thanks so very much for all of the feedback and comments! They really helped us to choose the perfect name!

Baby Girl Butler, Sister to Caroline and Naomi

50 Replies

Katherine writes:

Like many parents, I never thought I would be so stuck. We are expecting our third and final girl on April 1st 2012. (wouldn’t that be a fun birthday?) My two older children were both named months before the first ultrasound and here’s the thing: I LOVE their names. Caroline and Naomi. Aren’t they perfect? (Their middle names are family names, Mary and Julia. Our last name is Butler. This baby will have the middle name of Susan. I don’t care one bit about middle name flow) I love saying their names out loud and I even love hearing them on other people. Although I might be a little sad if they skyrocketed to the top ten, I have never once doubted their names. As soon as I considered their names, I knew them to be right. (And thankfully my husband agreed) Now I need a third perfect name. There’s a little bit of awkwardness I think bc I feel like some people assume that this pregnancy was an accident (it definitely was not) or that we were “trying for a boy” (insanely ridiculous, I can’t believe people even ask that) But I really don’t want this little girl to feel like an afterthought, especially bc she’s been part of my plan for over ten years! Right now it feels like we haven’t done much to prepare for her.

Here’s our list of names we like but aren’t quite right:
Eliza
Margot (Husband not a fan of how “French” it sounds)
Josephine (Not sure about nickname options)
Louise (this would be at the top of the list except its a family name that would be really awkward to use)
Lucia/Lucy (Its very popular here, also I ruined it for myself by seeing it on top name lists for dogs and cats)
Sophie (It is crazy popular here. With a fairly common last name, I am especially concerned about using a top ten name)
June

What’s still in the running?
Opal

One name doesn’t really make a list. Especially bc I just don’t think that’s her name. I’m not sure if this is immediately obvious, but I like names with like vowels sounds. Clearly my Baby Name Wizard style is Timeless with a touch of Charms and Graces. I have read the book cover to cover, hoping that I’ve overlooked something.

I read with much interest your column about preferences vs requirements and I’ve decided I have very few requirements which is not making things any easier. I want a name that fits in with our girls so that they sound like a sibling group of 3, not two plus one. Does that make sense? Every name we try sounds just not quite right and I don’t want to settle.

I’d prefer a name that does not start with C or N. (and perhaps K or B. Our names are Katherine and Ben)
I’d prefer a name with no automatic nickname. I know kids today are more likely to go by long versions of names, but I really don’t want to fight that fight with my extended family.
I’d prefer names that do not evoke a specific culture too strongly.
I like girl names to have no more than three syllables. I don’t like two syllable names ending in the “ee” sound.(bell tone names generally sound dated to me)

Swistle can you please help? Do I need to let go of having that “aha” moment that I had with my first two daughters? In all fairness, I’m generally not an “aha” type of person when it comes to making big decisions.

 
With a non-negotiable time-limit such as birth, it is definitely possible to cruise all the way there with no lightning bolt of “YES. THAT IS THE NAME.” Among my own children, there are two lightning bolt names, one gradual-warming name, one “this was the only name we agreed on” name, and one “chosen almost disappointingly easily/early” name. It does seem particularly disappointing to have two lightning bolts and then one of the other sort, though, so I’m eager for you to find another bolt. I will feel a little silly mentioning name after name you’ve certainly encountered many times in your perusals—but on the other hand, both of my own kids’ lightning-bolt names hit me out of the blue even though I’d seen them hundreds of times in baby name books.

Margaret is probably out because of the endless nickname options, but I think of it because of Josephine (Little Women) and also because it’s like Margot with the French removed. Margaret Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Margaret.

Greta removes the nickname problem. Greta Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Greta.

Another possibility is Miriam. It’s a sweet and underused name; it gives you a new initial; and I like the way the sounds of adjoining names connect (-ne of Caroline to the N- of Naomi; -mi of Naomi to the Mi- of Miriam). Downside: maybe too well-matched with Naomi in both sound and style, possibly leaving Caroline out. Miriam Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Miriam.

Meredith is more balanced between the two styles, perhaps. I love the sound of Meredith Butler. I would want that name myself. Caroline, Naomi, and Meredith.

Sophie and Josephine make me think of Fiona, because of the distinctive shared “fee” sound. Fiona Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Fiona.

The name Elsa recently caught my attention when a friend’s niece was given the name. Elsa Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Elsa.

The name Simone might be too French, but I mention it anyway for how well I think the sounds of the three names tie together. Simone Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Simone.

Harriet is a name I remember startling me back in the early 1990s when someone I knew used it for their baby. Now it seems like a very sassy and likely option. Harriet Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Harriet.

If Eliza isn’t quite right and Louise would be the top choice except for an awkward association, would Eloise work or would it be too close to the awkwardness? It’s one of my own favorites, and I think it’s great with the surname and with the siblings. Eloise Butler; Caroline, Naomi, and Eloise.

Baby Girl or Boy Kenny, Sibling to Aura Rose

22 Replies

Grace writes:

Here is our dilemma. When we had our daughter three years ago, we didn’t know if she was going to be a boy or a girl. We had our list of boy names and our list of girl names. I abandoned names left and right because of their popularity- including Isabella which was once top of our list but was nearly number 1 that year. We were named her a few minutes after her birth. Somehow, we have never regretted this momentary decision and feel her name fits her. Her name is Aura Rose (Rose was fixed from the beginning because of my husband’s love of roses, maybe not my first choice since everyone’s middle name is Rose, but he really does have a deep love of roses). I like that few people have ever heard the name Aura and everywhere we go, people comment how lovely her name is. We also like that it means “wind,” “breath,” or “goddess of wind.” We think that fits her too.

So, we are expecting again and need a new girl name and boy name. We had loved “Luca” for a boy in my pregnancy with her and have long held it as a possible name for her future sibling. We even thought- we could make that name work for a boy or a girl! However, a friend recently named her son that and I just don’t want to anymore. She is a very course person and the name (for them) is all about the strong Italian sound, which I never even noted before (I’m part Italian but we’re not really about being traditional or having our kid sound manly). I’m turned off mostly because I learned (somehow for the first time?) that it means “man from Lucania.” Our name doesn’t have to mean anything particularly profound, but it would be nice if it meant something.

We would really love something that is short and succinct to match “Aura.” We liked Luca because it was the same length and had the “a” sound at the end. Are there any similar names? I can’t really search for “4 letters with an a sound at the end” on most of the baby name engines I have found. We aren’t totally stuck on the names matching to that degree but it would be nice if they had some fluidity together.

 
In the United States, most names that end in an A-sound are girl names. The main exception to this rule is biblical names, and now that most biblical names have gone mainstream (that is, they can still be used as expressions of religious affiliation, but they’re no longer assumed to do so), that’s the direction I’d steer you to start. Some four-letters-with-an-A-sound-at-the-end possibilities:

Ezra
Joah
Noah

Joah would be the least common of those: according to the Social Security Administration, in 2010 the name Noah was #7, the name Ezra was #243, and the name Joah was not in the top 1000 at all (nor was the name Aura). I think you might run into more trouble with Joah than with Aura, however, since aura is a familiar word even though it’s an uncommon name, while most people won’t have heard of Joah in any context. It meets my preference for an unusual name, however, which is that it has a quick and easy help for both spelling and pronouncing: “It’s like Noah, but with a J instead of an N.”

Or if we expand the search beyond four letters and an A-ending, Jonah and Judah and Elijah and Micah would be more familiar than Joah, and Eli and Elias and Milo and Silas and Jonas and Levi and Asher and Leo and Abel have a gentle sound without ending in an a/ah.

Since Aura is a noun and supernatural/deity name, another possible route would be to find another noun or supernatural/deity name for this child. Those are harder to find for boys, but some possibilities are:

Able
Ares (probably too similar to Aura)
Arrow (probably too similar to Aura)
Atlas
Hart
Heath (which I think carries some of the romantic sound of Aura)
Forest
Jupiter
Justice
Merit
River

A name from my friend Mairzy’s list is Sterling. I think that might work very well: Sterling Kenny; Aura and Sterling. It was #754 in 2010, and according to my dictionary it means thoroughly excellent, noble, worthy, honorable. Furthermore, I think it works well for a boy or for a girl: for a boy I think it sounds gentlemanly and courteous and British; for a girl I think it has a fresh modern sound that might go very nicely with Aura.

Or Nico is similar to Luca.

I think it’s unsurprising for a family to have a different naming style for boys than for girls, but in general I’m in favor of coordinating sister names, or brother names, to avoid implying different expectations for each child: sisters named Aura and Margaret, for example, might feel as if one is expected to be a free spirit and the other is expected to be sensible and traditional. Some possible sister names for Aura:

Briar
Calla
Carys
Clarity
Cleo
Echo
Eden
Fable
Freya (another goddess name)
Haven
Ione
Isis (goddess)
Junia
Juno (goddess)
Lyric
Morning
Raine
Sage
Silver
Skye
Talia
True
Wren

Or if you want four letters ending in an A-sound, there are lots of options but many of them don’t seem like good style fits (Anna, for example, or Sara, or Nina), or might be too similar (Aria or Nora). Some that might fit better:

Deja
Gaia (goddess)
Hera (goddess)
Isla
Jada
Leda
Luna (goddess)
Lyra
Maya (goddess)
Sela
Thea
Zara

I’m not sure about the names ending in -ra. They might be too similar to Aura. I left them in, though, because I couldn’t decide.

I haven’t spent much time on name meanings: it’s a long list to look up, especially since I like to look at several sources to see if there’s consensus. But if you narrow it down first to the ones you’d consider using if the meanings were okay, that will cut down the task considerably.

I also suggest looking up the goddess names (I probably missed a few on the list, too) to make sure they’re goddesses whose stories are acceptable to you; some of those deities got up to quite a bit of trouble.

 

 

Name update! Grace writes:

We ended up naming our second daughter Shyla Hope. Shyla means “daughter of the mountain” and is one of the incarnations of the Hindu Goddess Parvati. So, it’s a goddess name that refers to another element in nature. We thought it went well with Aura for that reason. It’s more popular than Aura but not hugely popular or rising fast. Rose was important in meaning/symbolism to my husband and the same is true of Hope for me. She didn’t have a name until the day after her birth and several of the names from you and your readers were on our short list. Thank you for your help!

I think Aura and Shyla/ Aura Rose and Shyla Hope flow well together but others might find them too close in style/sound. I think we are all happy with it which is a miracle since we didn’t feel sure about names on our short list up through the end.

I really do appreciate the time you spent helping us!

Baby Boy Rhymes-With-Vogue, Brother to Rhett Ezekiel

15 Replies

Jennifer writes:

My husband and I are expecting a baby boy February 24th. Our last name starts with an L and rhymes with Vogue. Our first son’s name is Rhett Ezekiel, we chose his name within a week or two of finding out his gender. This second guy is giving us a little more trouble!

I like more unusual names, but my husband is much more traditional. I prefer names that are longer than one syllable since we have a one syllable last name. I don’t mind nicknames. He does not like nicknames and prefers shorter names. Obviously, I am not dead set, because our first son has a one syllable name. I made up for it with a long middle name. I do NOT want a name that is used as a girl’s name.

His father passed away last year, so my husband would like us to use either his first name David, or his middle name Warren somewhere in the name. I have agreed. I’m not overly fond of the name David, but will use it as a middle name (especially if the name we choose ends in the letter N). I would prefer our son to have his own first name (our first son does and so do all of the nieces and nephews on both sides). However, I am willing to use the name Warren as a first name if we don’t find something we both love. If we use Warren, his name will be Warren Elias.

Names that I like, but hubby doesn’t:

Elias (this would be my name of choice)
Thatcher (was the name I liked for the first baby)
Oliver
Ezra

Names he likes, but I don’t:
Walter
Henry
George
Harry

Names we both like (really, the entire list is about 10 deep)
Tyson
Owen (seems so popular to me as does Tyson)
Sawyer (starting to be used as a girl’s name)
Coleman
Conrad
Roy
Oakley
Wilson (but we might as well use Warren, they are so close)

We are leaning towards Conrad, Coleman, or Warren. I think that I am preferring Coleman, but then will have to use David as a middle name, and I would rather use Warren, but not sure I like the two N endings. I think he is preferring Warren at the moment, but he has gone back and forth on Warren.

Can you help?!?

Thank you!

 

Name update! Jennifer writes:

Thanks all! Eli Warren was born today 9 lbs .09 oz 21.75″

Baby Boy or Girl Marcin, Sibling to Mackenzie and Jake

20 Replies

K. writes:

We are due with our third child in May.
Currently we have a 4 year old daughter, Mackenzie and a 2 year old son, Jake.
If this baby is a boy, we have finally narrowed down boy names to either Callen or Calvin.
I thought I was set with Liam (although DH was not a big fan), but our last name starts with an M and sounds like Marcin. I kept saying Liam Marcin over and over, it began to sound like Lia Marcin, and that just ruined it for me!
DH is super picky with names. But one we could agree on is Calvin.
My maiden name began with Cal, so it would mean something to me to use a boy name starting with Cal :)
I am just not big on the VIN ending… I’ve had a poor association with a Vinny I knew.
I stumbled upon Callen, pronounced like Allen with a C (Cal-len). I really like this name, and it is a name of a character from TV show, NCIS Los Angeles, which DH is a huge fan of.
I began googling the name more and most sites are showing it as a Gaelic girl name, but pronounced like Caylin. I’m wondering if I name my son this, would it get mispronounced all the time?
I saw Callum, but I don’t like the M ending with my last name, it just disappears.
I’ve thought about Caleb, but I am not liking the -LEB ending, I don’t know why. Just isn’t sitting well with me.
I’ve tried looking up other names starting with Cal, but not really liking any.
Can you think of any others I may be missing? Do you think Callen is ok as a boy name and would most people understand how to pronounce it? I could go with Calvin, DH does like it better than Callen, but I feel we need to compromise and Callen would be the way to go.

Thanks!

 
There is a girl named Callin in my son’s preschool class, and it strikes me as an almost perfect unisex name: similar to Calla and Kaylin (and with the very feminine nickname Callie), and also to Callum and Calvin and Alan (and with the masculine nickname Cal). It can be made more feminine with spellings such as Callyn, but Callan and Callen can go either way. The Baby Name Wizard has it listed as a boy’s Celtic name spelled Callan, and her site Namipedia shows it pronounced as you mention, like Alan with a C. Think Baby Names lists the pronunciation the same way, as does Baby Names World.

For now the name is used mostly for boys: in 2010, there were 676 boys named Callen/Callan/Calen/Calan/Calin/Callin, and 101 girls named Callan/Calyn/Calynn/Callen/Callyn/Calin. Many of the girl names could be spellings of Kaylin rather than of Callan, which would make Callan even more weighted toward the boys. Spelling it with a double L should keep the A short.

It’s possible that even if you spell it with two L’s, people will occasionally pronounce it like Kaylin. But my much more common name Kristen, which ends in the familiar -ten just like the number ten, is often pronounced Kristine—or pronounced Kiersten or Kirsten, even though it’s spelled with a Kri-. I do think it’s wise to avoid pronunciation issues when possible (that is, I wouldn’t suggest spelling it Calin), but I think if you’ve spelled it traditionally and phonetically, you’ll be as much in the clear as any of us. And the name Callan has something very important for a name that might have pronunciation issues: an easy way to explain it. “It’s like Alan, with a C.”

A few more Cal- options you’ve probably already discovered:

Calder
Cale
Calix
Callahan
Callaway

Callahan has most of the sounds of Callan, but I think adding the extra syllable makes the pronunciation way clearer, and also increases the boyishness. I particularly like the way Callahan’s surnamey sound goes with Mackenzie, while the nickname Cal goes well with Jake.

If the Cal doesn’t need to be in the beginning of the name, there’s also Pascal—but that seems like a style mismatch with the sibling names.

Edited to add! K. writes:

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this!
After reading everyone’s comments, someone asked why I couldn’t just use my maiden name. So, it got me thinking….
My maiden name is Calabrese. And I just kept thinking how Caleb would really be the closest name possible. The more I thought about it, the more it grew on me.
Then, I thought about using Reese as the middle name. Calabrese = Caleb Reese.
(also considering using the spelling of Rhys, but not sure yet).

My only dilemma is really considering the middle name.
My daughters middle name is Helen, after my grandmother and my sons middle name is William, after Daddy.

My other middle name option is to use Gage. It is my MILs maiden name and SILs middle name.
DH prefers this way, he thinks that Gage has more meaning than Reese, but he understands what I am trying to do and said I can do as I please.

I could also use Peter, after my Father.

I am so torn! Do I break up my maiden name into two names or give him half my maiden name with another maiden name?

Thank you all so much!!