Melody writes:

I’ve been reading your blog for a while now, anxiously awaiting the time when I would actually need your help! I’m exited to say that I’m expecting my first child, so the time has finally come! my name is Melody and my husband is Brendon. Our last name is Farris with an H. We are expecting a son in 3 1/2 weeks and are almost set on a name. Luckily, my husband and I have very similar naming styles and a couple of names that we love and sound perfect with our surname. So what is the problem you may ask? Well, most 5 of our top choices are extremely common and well established girls names. While most of them had strong roots as boys names years ago, they are now considered as completely “girly”. While these are the names that we absolutely love, we don’t want our son to grow up being constantly teased. We could really use some advice on what you, as a mother and an expert, think is usable!

The name that we had picked out for a girl was Amelia Bianca called Mila or Bianca Mila called Bebe.

Here are the 5 names in order from least to most favorite:

Our least favorite right now is Shay. It doesn’t really fit with our usual style but I love the sound! However, we are constantly tortured by the fact that our neighbor has a little girl Shea… and I hear this as a girls name quit often around where we live.

After Shay, we really like Morgan. This seems so boyish to me I can’t even picture it on a girl. However we have gotten many comments that it is “unusable” for a boy, and he’ll be tormented and teased… While I do kind of agree it breaks my heart because I love the name so much!

Also love the name Robin. This also seems so masculine because of Robin Hood of course, Robin Williams, and singer Robin Thicke… We were thinking of naming him Robert and calling him Robin, but I just don’t love Robert like I love Robin. My husband suggested Robinson, but my best friend just told me that that is what she is going to be naming her son! Now I feel like that rules out Robin for me too so maybe this isn’t an issue anymore…

But our most favorite right now is Kay. Me and my husband both love it and already see it as our sons name… yet its probably the most girly name of the bunch! When I hear it, I think of Sir Kay (from the King Arthur stories, he was his brother), and it was originally an english boys name. However, it is now probably most known as a nickname for the girls name Katherine.

I’ve come to realize that I can’t name my son Kay without worrying about him getting teased later, so we decided to just use it (if we do end up using it) as a nickname. We really love the name Zachary, which is obviously a strongly established boys name, and were thinking of naming him Zachary Hugo (middle name will be Hugh or Hugo no matter what), and calling him Kay, even though they are 2 completely different names.

Along with that, some other options we thought of were, Mackay/McKay called Kay, Cassius/Caspian called Cay, Clayton called Cay (we really like this one). (Sidenote: we like the spelling Kay better, but feel that Cay is more masculine.)

What do you and your readers think?

On a different note, I was watching the old Bravo tv show 9 By Design the other day, and learned that one of the boys on the show is named Holleder. I forget who he was named after, but I’ve really started to love the name! Hollister is an old family name on my side, so we could just say that Holleder was a family name to anyone who asked. But then again, I wouldn’t want it to seem like I named my son after those people!

I just feel like whichever way we go we are setting our son up for years of nasty remarks! Should we just name him Zachary Hugo and call him Zach?

Ahhh I’m literally tearing my hair out! Swistle, we need your help! What do you think about Kay? Holleder? Morgan? Are they too girly? Please let me know!

Thanks so much!! We appreciate your help.

My own opinion is that Kay is too feminine for a boy. However, I think the initial K. is not too feminine, and I’ve noticed initial-nicknames seem to be coming into style: several people recently have mentioned using, for example, E. as a nickname for Elliot, or J. as a nickname for James. I think you could name him any name starting with a K (Keane, Keaton, Keegan, Kent, Kian, Kieran, Kyle, Kyler…), and then use K. as his nickname. There may be a couple of auditory double-takes, but probably not a huge deal.

Or would you like the name Kai? The pronunciation is a little different, but it’s solidly a boy name. It can be a stand-alone name, or it can be short for Caius.

Or I wonder if you’d like the nickname Kip. I think it’s adorable, and that its appeal is similar to Kay’s. It’s used as a nickname for Christopher.

McKay seems like it might be a very good solution, but I worry that it’s too similar to Makayla. It’s common to have very similar boy/girl versions of a name (Kyle and Kylie, for example), but the name McKay is very uncommon and the name Makayla is very common, so I worry more about confusion.

I know one boy named Shea. It does seem like a very soft and gentle name, but it strikes me as unisex rather than girl. According to the Social Security Administration, in 2011 there were 232 new baby boys and 298 new baby girls named Shea/Shay/Shaye. One option would be use Shane; you could even still call him Shay.

Because you like both Shay and Kay, I suggest Jay. According to the Social Security Administration, the name Jay was given to 700 boys and 0-4 girls in 2011. My mom and I both love the name; she’s said that if she had another baby boy to name, she’d like to call him Jay.

I’d also like to suggest Hayes, and I think the HHH initials would be fun, but I’m not sure it works with the surname.

Wade would work well.

The “ay” sound is also prominent in a number of currently popular boy names: Aiden, Brayden, Cayden, Hayden, Jaden, Leyton, Mason, Peyton, Rayden, Zayden, etc.

I haven’t encountered the name Holleder before, and had to look up how to pronounce it. I didn’t find a clear answer, but one site said something that made me think it might be pronounced like Hollander but without the N sound: Hah-leh-der. Or is it like Holder? In fact, Holder might be a good one to add to the list of options. It seems dicey to say Holleder is a family name if it isn’t, and the spelling/pronunciation issues seem significant. It’s too bad Hollister doesn’t really work with the surname; I love family surnames as first names.

Morgan does seem to have crossed to girl, though not entirely: the Social Security Administration reports 469 boys and 3640 girls named Morgan born in 2011. Notice that although there are many more girl Morgans than boy Morgans, there still are quite a few boy Morgans. Other options: Keegan, Logan, Finnegan, Morrison, Rohan, Riordan, Malcolm.

If you decide Robin isn’t out for you (is your best friend expecting a baby boy right now, or is she just talking about some possible boy in the future?), it could also be short for Robertson—though I like it best in its traditional role as a nickname for Robert. I think it’s okay if you don’t like the name Robert as much as the name Robin; it’s common to accept a name to get a nickname or to accept a nickname to get a name, and rarer to love both name and nickname equally. The Social Security Administration shows 301 baby girls and 99 baby boys named Robin/Robyn in 2011, and I think any “girl name” protest could be put down pretty quickly with that list of famous male Robins.

Update—Melody writes:

Hi Swistle! Thanks to you and your readers for all your help and suggestions! You’ve helped so much.
I just wanted your opinion on one more thing. We recently heard of the name Cayman/Caymen, and think it is really cute (and masculine:)! We would of course call him Cay. However, my husband feels like we’d be “making up” the name… I’ve never really met another Cayman, so I’m not sure if he’s right or not… However, this has become a frontrunner for us, so I wanted to know what you and your readers thought of it.
Again, thanks for all the help!

Name update! Melody writes:

Hi Swistle!
I feel horrible that I haven’t updated you sooner, our little boy is 9 months old now(!), but things have been so hectic lately. But I thought, hey better late than never:) I wrote you all the way back in August, scared that the names we loved for our son we all too feminine, and your response really helped us pick a wonderful name.
Kaleb Hugo (H)arris was born at the end of August and we have been calling him Kay ever since (with no resistance whatsoever I might add). We had narrowed it down to
Kaleb “Kay” Hugo
Christopher “Kay” Hugh
Christopher “Kit” Hugh
and loved Kaleb the best.
(we also loved Robin, but my best friend, who was pregnant at the time and has had twins since, ended up naming one of her boys Robinson, and it fits him perfectly:)

So… thank you so so much, your help is greatly appreciated!!

(On a side note, I recently found out that I am pregnant again (hooray!), so we might be emailing you again soon!)

Stephanie writes:

I need your help….again!  You and your readers gave me the push I needed to name our last baby, and you addressed a naming quandary I was worried about early in a previous pregnancy [naming a second son after someone when the first son already had a name honoring the same relative].  Sadly, that pregnancy ended in a loss.  Ecstatically, we are finally expecting our third child, due December 15, but expected to be early.  We just found out that this baby is a girl, so that eliminates the previous honor name quandary, but introduces a different one!

We have a son Thomas (family surname) M. and a daughter, Audrey Kathryn M.  Both middle names are our middle names, with my son’s middle name going back several generations as a middle name. Our naming style is traditional (that less common spelling of Katherine is my mother’s fault :) ), and we have a short list of candidates from before. We are not in love with them, but DH hates most female names. I can live with this though.  The issue now, is the middle name.  I desperately want (need) to honor my grandmother here.  The reasons are highly emotionally tied to her death shortly after my daughter’s birth and the two losses we suffered last year.  So, what’s the issue?  Her name was, well, not our style.  D0nna Je@n Lew1s.

Can your readers brainstorm for me?  A great classic first name and a middle name honoring my grandmother?  Candidate first names are:  Anne or Anna, Mary or Marie or some other variant.  I like Elizabeth and Margaret, but DH does not.  My favorite idea for a middle name is Lew1s or Anna Je@n but DH isn’t sold.  Naming our son was so easy! Girls are just hard for us.  Flow with the last name isn’t a big issue.

Here is what it is going to come down to: on one side of the scale is your desperate need to honor your grandmother by using her name, and on the other side of the scale is the fact that her name is not the style you’d normally choose. Which seems like a more important side of the scale? It would be completely reasonable for you to decide you’d rather choose a name you like better, and to find other ways to honor your grandmother.

It’s true the name Donna isn’t in style for today’s babies, but that’s also true of most of the names of adults we’d like to honor: each new generation kicks out of fashion most of the previous generation’s names. (Exceptions to this may find themselves with an unexpectedly high number of namesakes.) I think it’s even part of the reason namesakes are considered such an honor: it means something to sacrifice fashion for significance. If you were intent on using the name as a first name, I might reluctantly agree that it was not going to work—but in the middle name position, style seems like a very minor matter. Many of your baby’s peers will also have out-of-fashion middle names, and for similar reasons.

You could play around with names that aren’t your grandmother’s, trying to make those names honor her, but all of them will be a significant step down in honor. You could use the same initials, use a name with similar sounds or letters, use a name with a similar meaning, use one of her nicknames, combine names to make a different name, use an updated version of the name, use the name of one of your grandmother’s relatives, etc. For each possible solution, think to yourself, “Does this name bring my grandmother immediately to my mind? Would my grandmother recognize this as a tribute to her?” If yes, then they are good options.

If you called your grandmother “Grandma Lewis,” you might find that the name Lewis brings her to your mind more quickly even than her first name—though if you’re like me, it brings to mind the entire side of the family and not just one person. You could use her middle name; it’s done commonly enough. But for me, my grandparents’ middle names don’t bring my grandparents to my mind, whereas their first names do.

Each time I re-read your letter (as well as the additional part not for publication), what stands out to me is that you are not just doing this because you loved your grandmother and feel warmly about the idea of using her name, but because you NEED your daughter to have her name. So in your case, I don’t recommend any compromise names or fixes; I strongly urge you to go directly for the name Donna. I recommend saying it over and over in your mind until it does that thing where words/names turn into combinations of sounds, and see if that helps you hear the sound that caused so many parents to choose the name for their daughters to begin with. You could also see if you preferred it as a double middle name: Donna Jean, or Donna Lewis. This has the additional benefit of dramatically strengthening the connection to your grandmother.

In time, whether your daughter’s middle name is to your tastes or not will, I hope, pale in comparison to the comfort and satisfaction it will bring you to be able to say to her “You were named for my grandmother,” and tell her the stories you want to tell her. And the good news is that names tend to come around again: by the time your daughter is grown, she may be like one of the current lucky women who have suddenly found that their previously-disliked middle names of Emma or Abigail are now considered wonderful.

The other comforting thought is that middle names are rarely used or thought of after the birth announcements go out. When you do think of her middle name, it will almost always be because of your grandmother—so, with feelings of love and happiness. All the rest of the time, you will be thinking of her first name, which can be something more in your style.

Anna Donna has some appeal to me, as do Maria Donna and Mary Donna, or maybe Marianne Donna or Annemarie Donna. People tend to be split on whether they like two names in a row with -a endings; I tend to be in favor. And because the honor name is so important here, I would only barely consider flow anyway.

I wish I could suggest one of my own favorite names, Eliza, but the movie My Fair Lady has forever connected Audrey Hepburn and Eliza Doolittle in my mind. Maybe Eloise would work? Eloise Donna.

I was also thinking Ella Donna sounded so beautiful to me—and then realized it was certainly because of Belladonna.

With siblings named Thomas and Audrey, I would lean heavily on the Timeless section of The Baby Name Wizard. Here are some of my favorites:

Abigail Donna
Caroline Donna
Cecily Donna
Charlotte Donna
Clara Donna
Cora Donna
Eleanor Donna
Elsa DonnaEmily Donna
Eva Donna
Eve Donna Jean
Grace Donna Jean
Greta Donna
Hope Donna Jean
Ivy Donna
Jane Donna Lewis
Josephine Donna
Julia Donna
Laura Donna
Leah Donna
Miriam Donna
Naomi Donna
Nora Donna
Rose Donna Jean
Sarah Donna

Name update! Stephanie writes:

I am certain neither of us expected this update to come so soon, but baby girl M had other plans.  She arrived two weeks ago at just 25 weeks, while we were on a vacation!  So far, Mary Lewis M. Is proving to be a tough little fighter with the feisty spunk of her namesake. We were caught off guard with having to name her before we had settled on a name.  It felt strange to use her name for at least the first week, but I’m used to it now, and we love the simplicity of her very traditional first name.  I will send a picture once she is bigger and stronger.  For now, know that we appreciated the input from you and your readers!

Katie writes:

My name is Katie and my husband Paul and I are expecting our first baby. We are having a girl and she is due on the 28th of August. Our surname is Jenkins, and the middle name will be a family name which we will most likely decide after we choose the first name. If it helps we like names such as Max, Callum and Finn for boys.

The name we like the most is Lyric. Is that too weird though? Can you imagine a lawyer named Lyric? Also if we name the baby Lyric does that mean we have cornered ourselves into a certain naming style for future siblings? We would like to have at least two more babies, although that could change once our daughter arrives ;-)

Other names we like are:
Selah (probably our second favorite, we like it pronounced as SAY-luh, but is that how it is normally pronounced?)
Amelia ‘Mila’
Luna
Brynn
Astoria ‘Story’
Eleanor

We also really like Glory, but feel as though it should be a nickname for Gloria which neither of us really like.

So I guess you could say we like names of all different styles. We are pretty much open to any suggestions, we would love to find a less common name but overall we aren’t too fussed.

Thanks a heap!

I was mentally composing my reply while getting breakfast for the kids, and what I was planning to say is that Lyric is not too weird, that there were nearly a thousand new baby girls named Lyric born in 2011, and that although I do think it would rule out names such as Amelia and Eleanor for future girls, it looks like you have plenty of good sister names in Selah, Luna, and Astoria.

But then I got to my computer and re-read the part about a lawyer named Lyric, and it’s true it’s hard to imagine. Part of this, though, is just my generation: I’m having trouble picturing lawyers named Caden and Madison, too, but that’s because I think of those as “kid names.” Just as Jennifer and Jessica don’t seem like old lady names but soon will, the current kid names will soon seem natural as grown-up names—including lawyers.

On the other hand, Lyric does have a certain nounish style that may always sound a little funny with certain professions. Crystal and Brandy were popular names that have had a chance to fully grow up now, and yet they still don’t have as serious a sound as peers like Amanda and Kimberly. It’s very hard to know which names will grow up to have which connotations, though: Heather and April and Brooke are also noun names, but grew up to easily fit lawyers.

Luckily, there is a common naming solution to this: different styles for first and middle names, to hedge your bets. This solution is particularly applicable in your case, since your list is split right down the middle between riskier and more conservative choices. If you choose your favorite style for the first name, you can use the other style as a middle name. A woman named Lyric Eleanor or Eleanor Lyric can go by whichever name seems more appropriate for her personality and job choice.

Another possible solution is to find names that have similar sounds to the ones you like, but are of a different style. Instead of Lyric: Lyra, Mira, or Lyla. If you like Story and Glory and Eleanor, maybe you would like Aurora, Cora, Corinne, Dorothy (Dory), Ellery, Emory, Flora, Florence (Florrie), Jory, Georgia, Lorelei, Maura, Morgan, Mallory, Nora, Orianna, Rory, Victoria. If you like Callum for a boy, maybe you’d like Calla for a girl.

Yet another possible solution is to choose a name with flexible nicknames. An Eleanor can be an Ellie, a Nora, a Linny, or of course an Eleanor. An Astoria can go by Story or Ree or Ria, and also has the full Astoria to fall back on. Luna and Lyric have fewer options.

Yes, according to The Baby Name Wizard, Selah is pronounced SAY-lah and Sela is SEE-lah. It’s hard to know, though, what actual usage is. If I encountered a Selah, I’d be prepared to find that her name could be pronounced SEE-lah.

Name update! Katie writes:

My husband and I ended up narrowing the names down to Lyric and Eleanor and decided to wait until she was born to decide. As soon as we saw her we both knew she was a Lyric. Our little Lyric Helena was born on the 1st of September, and we both love her name! Thanks to all who gave input, it definitely helped :-)