Baby Boy Grefay, Brother to Jack and Lila

Jennifer writes:

Just discovered your wonderful site in my frantic search for the perfect name for baby #3 (due September 6, but realistically, any day now!!). This pregnancy has flown by and we’ve been putting off the naming decision until now!

So, our son’s name is Jack and our daughter’s name is Lila. Now we’re having another boy and have not fallen in love with any name. Well, I have fallen in love with one: James. BUT, it’s my husband’s name (although he goes by Jim) and he refuses to name our second son James for fear that later in life our firstborn son will grow resentful that he wasn’t given his Dad’s name. I think this is ridiculous thinking…but is he right? Can only the firstborn son carry the father’s name?

So in lieu of James, I/we like Max, Charlie, Benjamin, Bradford, I also like Graham but I feel it clashes with our surname starts with ‘Gre’ and ends sounding like ‘fay’ (similar to the sound of ‘buffet’.I hope that makes sense)…it sounds very French when pronounced correctly (which is rarely!).

If this were a girl, I love the names Georgie (Georgia) and Harper and Maggie…

I hope you can help! Maybe it’s hormones and fatigue but I can’t seem to make a rational decision or even think straight at this point!

Although it’s traditional for the firstborn child to be the namesake, there isn’t anything inherently more worthy or important about the first child; I suspect the only reason is so the honor name is used at the first opportunity. If there’s no reason for the children to believe that this third child would be particularly favored by his parents, I think it’s likely the children won’t much care—or if they do care, the caring could go either way: either “Why didn’t _I_ get dad’s name?” OR “Why didn’t YOU have to get dad’s name?” An honor name is a mixed gift: there aren’t any specific benefits that go along with it (the benefits are more for the one who is honored)—and there are downsides, such as not having a name all of one’s own, and dealing with any confusion that results from sharing.

One of my friends had twin boys, and they gave the father’s name to the secondborn twin, so that each boy would have something: one boy is the firstborn, and the other is the namesake. It seemed like a good idea to me, and a good source of spin for other situations.

In this case, my bigger concern would be that the names Jack and James seem very similar, especially with a father Jim. Jack and Max also seem very similar to me, though a good fit style-wise.

Charlie is my own favorite from your list. Jack and Charlie are highly compatible names, but without being too alike. Benjamin is a very close second, especially if he’ll go by Ben: Jack and Ben is a wonderful pair of brother names.

I also suggest Henry: Jack, Lila, and Henry.

Or Sam: Jack, Lila, and Sam.

I’m finding it a little challenging to find a brother name for a Jack. I think it’s because Jack is a nickname name but also considered a stand-alone choice. So it feels compatible with other nickname names (Max, Sam, Ben, Charlie), but those names are not as often used as given names. So then having, say, a Jack and a Charles, or a Jack and a Benjamin, or a Jack and a Samuel, feels as if one boy has a good nickname and the other doesn’t, or that only the nickname is the same style as Jack.

A name like Leo would be perfectly compatible with Jack—but I’m afraid it’s too close to Lila. Drew might be perfect: it’s short for Andrew but often used as given name. But I’m not sure it works well with the surname. Maybe Cole? It can be a nickname for Nicholas or Colton, but it’s also given on its own. Or Liam—but again, probably too close to Lila.

Other nickname possibilities:

Daniel/Dan
Edward/Ed/Ned/Ted
Camden/Cam
Alexander/Alex
Nicholas/Nick
William/Will

From this list, I think my favorite combination is Jack and Will. (Another post asked if “Jack and Will” would bring “Jack and Jill” to mind. I thought probably it would be a minor issue, and that it would be easy to say “Will and Jack” instead—but it’s the sort of issue I like to mention so that you can think of it beforehand rather than afterward.) I like how all three children would have four-letter names, unless that would make you feel pressured for future children. Jack, Lila, and Will.

Baby Name to Consider: Thames

49 Replies

Nichole writes:

For some reason, my husband has become completely enamored of the name Thames and wants to use if for our next son. I looked up pronunciation and the Thames River in England (and thus the British pronunciation) is “temz”. But the Thames River in Connecticut (and thus the American pronunciation) is said to be “thaymz or taymz”.

My questions: 1) how do you / how does your average N. American reader pronounce Thames when read and spoken?; and 2) is “Thames” a name that is too off-the-wall to consider as a first name?

Thank you!!

Oh, interesting! I immediately pronounced it “temz” in my mind—but if I saw it as a child’s name, I’d wouldn’t assume that was the way it was pronounced. I wasn’t familiar with the Thames River in Connecticut, but I still would have wondered if Thames as a name might be pronounced to rhyme with James, with a soft TH sound; I’m not sure if the river in Connecticut is well-known enough to affect the U.S. pronunciation. I’d also wonder if it might be a creative spelling of Thomas. Or I’d wonder if it might be thay-mus, to rhyme with Seamus/Shamus. I’d be very uncertain, and would feel uncomfortable even taking a stab at it.

According to the Social Security Administration, the name is unused or nearly unused in the United States: Thames is not in the data base, which means it was used for fewer than 5 boy or 5 girl babies in 2011.

My own opinion is that it would be a hassle to carry that name in the United States, with more confusion over spelling and pronunciation than would be worth it. I think, however, that it would make a terrific and distinctive middle name.

What does everyone else think? Let’s have a poll over to the right. [Poll closed; see results below.]

And in the comments section, say how you would have thought Thames was pronounced if you encountered it as a child’s name.

Thames

What Are Your Favorite Unisex Baby Names?

70 Replies

Reader Melissa had a really good idea: We should do a series of posts called things like “What’s your favorite unisex name?” or “What’s your favorite uncommon name?,” and then have a list of links to that series in the sidebar. It might make a good reference section for people to browse when they’re looking for inspiration.

So let’s try it, and let’s start with “What are some of your favorite unisex baby names?”

If you’re like me, you might be suddenly nervous about your choices. Let’s agree NOT to be: we’ll just list any that come to mind, and it doesn’t matter if they’re our actual top favorites because we can always come back and add more later, and of course our answers don’t have to correspond with names we’d use OURSELVES, and duplicates in the list are fine and expected and even helpful for showing group preferences. We’re just creating an inspiration/idea list for others to look through.

I’ll go first:

Carson
Ellis
Emory
Grey
Hollis
Joe/Jo
Lane
Lee/Leigh
Merritt
Reese/Rhys
Rory
Teagan

Now it is your turn. You can list one or many, whatever you like. Think of it like someone says to you “I’d like to find a good unisex baby name,” and you say “Ooo, how about…?”

Baby Naming Issue: Can a Baby Choose Its Own Name?

24 Replies

Sasha writes:

Just saw your site and I really love the in depth name discussions. I have a situation so I thought I would ask your advice.

My husband and I are expecting a baby girl in January. The name we have chosen is Victoria, namely because it has always been my favorite name. We are both Anglophiles, we love the regal sound and I like the fact that it is not in the top ten. Our last name is Marks, so Victoria Marks has a good British feel about it, even though we live in California.

Now the other night my husband had a dream that the baby was born and looked up at him and said “Hi my name is Zoe.” He now feels that she is more of a person to him as Zoe than as Victoria. We are thinking of naming her Victoria Zoe and he has started to refer to her as Zoe.

I still want to call her Victoria, as that is the name I love in my heart, but I am also open if Zoe is indeed the better name for her. This is my first and will be my only child. So my questions are: has anyone had a name shake up and how did you feel about it afterwards, and, is it possible for a baby to “choose” her own name, so to speak, in a situation like this?

I am looking forward to your thoughts on this.

The question is not whether I believe it’s possible for a baby to choose its own name, but whether YOU believe it. Do you believe that each fetus has its own inherent name even before birth (as opposed to the name chosen according to the parents’ tastes), and that the fetus can broadcast that name telepathically into its father’s dream?

If you do believe this, then the child’s first name should be Zoe: she has specifically chosen it (or, depending on which belief we’d be going with, has come to understand that it is hers), and has specifically and clearly told you. Ignoring those wishes and giving her a name you KNEW wasn’t hers would be a serious decision.

If you instead believe that people have many dreams about their babies-to-be, and that those dreams are dreams rather than prophesies or truth-revealing communications, then you can continue to do what parents generally do, which is to choose the name themselves.

My own dream experience has not been one of truths revealed. During my pregnancies I sometimes dreamed a baby boy was a boy, and sometimes dreamed he was a girl. Sometimes I dreamed he was born way too early, or that he was something other than a baby, or that he died, or that I gave birth to him at home, or that he was blonde, or that I wasn’t pregnant at all. Sometimes the dreams happened to correspond to reality, and most of the time they didn’t.

So in your shoes, I would see a husband’s dream as a fun story that we might want to incorporate into the naming process if we happened to agree on the name anyway. I’d go with your plan: sticking with your original agreed-upon name choice rather than dramatically switching styles, and using the dream name as a fun middle name as well as a nickname for her daddy to call her. Victoria Zoe Marks is a wonderful name, and Z. is a very fun initial, and the naming story is a highly enjoyable one.

Twin Baby Boys Squelch-with-a-W, Brothers to Lila Grace

13 Replies

Kristin writes:

I am pregnant with twin boys and in my 36th week. I had a pre-term labor scare a few weeks ago and have been on bed rest ever since, so these boys could arrive at any moment. The one thing left on our to-do list is to come up with names.

We have an older daughter whose name we absolutely love, Lila. Lila is classic, elegant, easy to say and spell, old fashioned, yet contemporary and it suits her to a tee. Grace is her middle name – it’s a family name that was coincidentally present on both my husband’s and my side of the family. So it was a no brainer that our daughter would take that as her middle name. Our last name sounds like Squelch but with a “W”. Therefore, we want boys names that aren’t too harsh sounding. My husband’s name is Evan and mine is Kristin.

Requirements are that the first name be two or more syllables, doesn’t start with W and isn’t be in the top 100 names. I also don’t want matchy, rhymey names or names that start with the same letter for our twin boys. Unfortunately, we can’t seem to agree on any names and neither of us loves the options we’ve come up with either. We feel like we’ll never love any boy’s names as much as we love Lila’s.

My first name ideas: Bryson, Everett, Bennett, Emmett, Emerson, Avery and Grayson

My middle name ideas: Owen, Miles and Alexander

My husband’s first and middle name ideas: Miles, Max, Jason and Earl

My husband like Miles and Max as first names. But Max paired with our last name sounds like a single first name. Also, I don’t like the M and M theme or the fact that they are monosyllabic. I’d like a better flow with our last name. I really like Everett Miles but the fact that my husband wants to use Miles as a first name and Everett is so close to my husband’s name Evan, makes me question it. “Hi, I’m Evan and this is my son Everett.” Sounds odd, right? My husband doesn’t like Bennett because he worries about him being nicknamed Benny. But I love the meaning – blessed. Emerson reminds him of the band Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Does anybody have that association these days? He also dislikes Owen but I like that it is a variation of the name Evan. So, in essence, it’s a tribute to my husband. He has also mentioned Jason which is his first name and his father’s name. I don’t love the name but I’m willing to consider it probably more as a middle name because I’d like to stick with classic old timey names as a theme for our kids and don’t really think it goes with Lila. Another one of his suggestions is Earl, his father’s middle name. Certainly better as a middle name than first but kind of old sounding. Any ideas for us?

I will start by suggesting that your goal not be to find names you love as much as Lila’s name. The name Lila has already become synonymous with your much-loved daughter; any new names are unlikely to measure up until they’ve had time to become your sons. It’s also possible that boy names you love as much as Lila’s name don’t exist—and yet you would nevertheless need to choose names. So instead, I suggest the more attainable goal of finding your favorite two boy names.

And in fact, I might start by finding ONE favorite boy name. An exercise that can be useful when naming twins (especially if you don’t want any twin-name gimmick) is to pretend you are expecting just one baby boy, and find a name for him; then pretend it is some time later and you are expecting another single baby boy, and find a name for HIM.

Looking at your lists, the pairing that stands out to me is Miles and Everett. Like the name Lila, both are old-fashioned yet contemporary names. They’re coordinated but not matchy in any way. You’ve got Miles down as a one-syllable name, but I say it with two syllables: my-yuls. Evan and Everett seem too similar for brothers, but not for a father/son; I think the mild connection is nice, and that the frequency of it seeming strange in an introduction is likely to be very low. I do wonder if Lila and Miles are too similar, though; they do share a lot of sounds.

If Everett continues to seem too close to your husband’s name, and if Miles doesn’t seem too close to Lila, my next choice is Miles and Bennett. I think as long as your son doesn’t himself choose to go by Benny later on, you can avoid the nickname.

My concern with Emerson isn’t the band but the usage: currently it’s used more often for girls. The name Avery, too, is currently used much more often for girls. If you use either name, I suggest using both: Emerson and Avery are very compatible names. I’d use them with boyish middle names, for clarity; perhaps Emerson Miles and Avery Bennett, or Emerson Earl and Avery Jason if you’d like to use the family names. Lila, Emerson, and Avery.

I see a lot of -ett and -son on your list, so I think I’d explore that for more possibilities. I’ll avoid very common names, but I’m ignoring the arbitrary Top-100 cut-off: since some of the names on your list are Top 100, I’ll assume you mean “not very common” (i.e., not Mason) as opposed to “#101 is fine, but #100 is not.”

Elliot is one of my own favorites, though maybe it’s too much L with a sister Lila. I might pair it with Oliver, and then perhaps the L sound is unifying rather than duplicating: Lila, Elliot, and Oliver.

Or perhaps I’d pair it with Simon, so that one boy shares the L sound and the other shares the long-I: Lila, Elliot, and Simon.

Garrett is another possibility. Perhaps we could pair one -ett name and one -son name! Garrett and Harrison. Garrett and Anderson. Garrett and Davison. Or replace Garrett with Beckett—there was a character named Lyla Garrity on the television show Friday Night Lights; I’m not sure how many people would think of it with a Lila and a Garrett. Anderson and Beckett for Baby A and Baby B, if you like a leeeeeetle twin-name gimmick. Or Beckett and Harrison, or Beckett and Davison, or Beckett and Thompson.

I love the name Henry with Lila. Henry works well with Simon, Oliver, Everett, Emmett, Elliot, Miles, Grady, Isaac, Frederick—lots of names.

We recently did another question about twin boys, and I got caught up in the fantasy of naming twin boys and made a bit of a list; perhaps that might be of some use. Some of those pairs are a little matchier than you’re looking for, but individual names might stand out. Henry and Malcolm. Harris and Calvin. Emmett and Louis. Ian and Leo. Davis and Simon. Gideon and Ruben.

Will the Name Marigold Become a Huge Hit?

21 Replies

Kym writes:

Hubby and I are expecting our sixth child, a girl, sometime this October. We are calling her Marigold – a name I’ve loved since the sixth grade and a name that hubby has grown to love, too. It has take me (not hubby) a good while to grow brave enough to use this name, because I’m sure there will be raised eyebrows and chatter behind our backs, but the name has finally solidified for me and to us, our daughter is already Marigold. There is no other name I love (except for the names we’ve already given our other daughters.) Now, my only concern is that I was told there is a new NBC show premiering in September in which there is a girl named….you guessed it….Marigold. I’ve confirmed this; it is true. I am a tad worried that there will be a huge influx of Marigolds being born in the next few years, not to mention how many will think we named our October daughter after the girl in the September show. It’s rather bumming me and I need some input. Will this very uncommon name become a huge hit?

No.

…I suppose I shouldn’t be so definite. Violet, after all, has done quite a journey up the ranks recently. But I still say no for Marigold: I think it’s a charming name, it’s on my own list, and I think it’s more likely to stay unusual—if not QUITE as unusual as before.

I think there will be at least a little jump from the show, because many people who have never even heard of the name Marigold will now suddenly have it brought to their attention—but I think there will be a lot of people who HAVE heard of it who will say “Oh, shoot; well, now that it’s in a show I don’t want to use it anymore.” I also think that if the show is a success, you will have to deal with the occasional or even frequent “Oh, like the show?” But you will say, “No, we chose the name before the show came out,” and that will be the end of it. And maybe the show will tank and it won’t even be an issue at all.

Keep in mind, of course, that many a person has made many a prediction that looks very, very silly later on. “Oh, computers will never take off!” “Television is just a fad!” “Madison? That’s the perfect ha-ha name for the crazy mermaid to choose, since no one would ever ACTUALLY use it!” There IS the risk that the time is absolutely ripe for a name like Marigold (books and TV shows often tap into incoming trends, rather than being the cause of them), and that the show will rocket it to the top. I’d put my money on a small spike that works in your favor by giving the name a pleasing normality/familiarity that keeps people from acting like you named your daughter Tulip or Hydrangea—but I could easily be absolutely wrong.

It sounds like it doesn’t really matter, though, if your daughter is already Marigold to both of you. It’s too bad about the show, but it doesn’t seem like you’d want to change her name on the off-chance that it will be a serious problem.

Let’s have a poll over to the right to collect others’ predictions. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Marigoldpoll

Name update! Kym writes:

Well, here she is…our little flower, Marigold! Not one person has made any association with “that” TV series yet, and I’d say a good 98% of the people who hear her name absolutely LOVE it. So that makes for a happy momma (though I’d be happy regardless). Marigold was born in October and after choosing her name, we learned that the flower for the month of October is….the marigold! Fancy that. :)

Thanks all for your comments!

Baby Boy Wylie, Brother to Violet and Scott

28 Replies

K. writes:

I am 4 weeks from having a beautiful baby boy in my arms and I don’t feel settled on any name. I still probably spend 5 hours a day thinking about it.

Our last name is Wylie, and we’re considering Robert, Cooper, or Zachary as middle names (all significant family names.)

My daughter is Violet Noelle Wylie. And my son is Scott Brian Wylie. I love how Violet and Scott sound together, though I know they’re stylistically different. Violet had long been my favorite girls name and Scott is my husband’s middle name. I’m so glad I took a bit of a risk on Scott. I’m sure some people think it stale and tired. But for the most part it gets good reaction and actually feels fresh on the under 5 crowd!

So my dilemma:

We’re leaning towards Oliver. But I just can’t stand how popular it is. It is particularly popular in my state even though I don’t know a single Oliver. The other problem is that Oliver sounds like Violet’s brother but not really like Scotty’s brother!

Other’s on the list:

Heath

Rhett

Reid

Penn

Simon

Sam (sooo popular!)

Peter

James (nn Jamie)

I feel like its slightly odd to use Simon, Peter, and James since they’re so biblical? Am I over thinking that? The other small problem with Rhett, Reid, Heath, and Penn is that they lack nickname potential. I used to love one syllable boy names (hence choosing Scott) but the name pretty much got hijacked and we call him Scotty 99% of the time. So now I fear the one syllables a bit! What should I choose? Of course, I’m open to other suggestions from you and your readers. This is our last baby and I so want to love his name as much as I love Violet’s!!

I think names like James, Peter, and Simon have all been fully mainstreamed by now: someone certainly COULD use them because of their biblical status, but they’re just standard names at this point—as are Matthew, Andrew, Joshua, David, Michael, Benjamin, Daniel, Ethan, Mark, Caleb, Luke, Jonathan, etc.; practically the whole classic/traditional/timeless list are names that also appear in the Bible. Even Noah, Ezra, Ezekiel, Moses, Abraham, and Isaac are mainstreamed at this point, due to a recent trend of Quirky Biblical names. Perhaps if I encountered a family with ALL biblical names, I might WONDER—but encountering just one name from the list, it wouldn’t even come to my mind. In a family with a Violet and a Scott, it certainly wouldn’t seem biblical.

Although I do like to avoid style clashes within a sibling group, I think there are many styles that are different yet perfectly fine together. Scott and Oliver is an example of this: they’re definitely not the same style, but they’re fine: at most they provoke a small, interested, surprised feeling—but no “What happened THERE?” feeling as there might be with, say, Maverick and Jason, or Sunshine and Jessica. Scotty and Ollie is pretty cute!

I think if you’ve found you nicknamed Scott to Scotty against your original plan, I would avoid Penn.

Simon and Sam have an initial working in their favor: when two names are of somewhat different styles, a matching starting initial can make them seem more similar. Scotty and Sammy, Scotty and Simon.

Rhett has a similar situation but with its ending: the three names become linked through their ending T-sounds. Violet, Scott, and Rhett. I can see how you might want OR not want that; I think if I encountered it in the wild, I’d find it appealing. I even like how both boys have double T’s.

Scott and Peter seem like a very good combination to me, and the T sound in Peter ties his name to his siblings.

I think my favorite from your list is James/Jamie: it gives you the same “one-syllable name, two-syllable nickname” pattern as with Scott. James Cooper Wylie; Violet, Scott, and James; Scotty and Jamie.

I suggest not trying to compare your feelings for a new name to your love of a name you loved for years and that has now fully become your daughter to you. The new name is almost always going to feel a little funny at first, while the established name can feel as if it’s been perfect from the beginning. Instead, the goal can be the easier one of just finding the name you like best of the possibilities: not “As much as I love Violet” but “The one I like best from this list.”

Since you’ve had the experience of finding that a name off its style peak can sound fresh on a small child, I suggest the name John. Like Scott, it’s one-syllable and not currently on-trend. Like Scott, it sounds fresh and surprising in a kindergarten class full of Cadens and Masons. (In fact, that’s how the name first caught my riveted attention: I saw it written in a child’s hand on a cute drawing up on the kindergarten wall.) John Robert Wylie; Violet, Scott, and John; Scotty and Johnny.

I’d also add Grant. It has the T-ending, and I think it goes well enough with both Violet and Scott. Though Scott is more familiar to me at this point as a first name, Scott and Grant are both surnames.

Name update! K. writes:

Our beautiful boy was born on September 14th via repeat c-section. It took me about 2 days to settle on his name, though my husband was certain from his birth. Now, I am so in love with his name, I really can’t believe it. I was so worried I couldn’t be satisfied this time around. We chose Simon Cooper Wylie as his name. It’s thanks to you and your readers! First, I was hesitant to have the name start with an ‘s’ but once I removed that restriction knew I had a winner. Secondly, when only a few people liked Simon the best off my list, I realized I was routing for it! That made it easy! Thanks so much!

Baby Boy Gabriel, Brother to Elizabeth Rose and Luke; And Middle Name Challenge for Luke _____ Gabriel

63 Replies

Jen writes:

So, I am getting rather pregnant now and will be having this baby around September 26th. (And that is a pretty solid date, as I am being induced for all sorts of medical reasons.) Once upon a time, when I was first pregnant years and years ago, my husband and I struck a bargain. If the baby was a girl, I got 51% of the naming decision and if it was a boy, he got 51%. And then the next baby, the “loser” got 51% regardless of sex. Well, the first named baby ended up being a girl, so I chose the name Elizabeth Rose. (Our last name is Gabriel, by the way. I am Jen and he is Matt. And yes, we were both born in 1981, how did you guess?) Elizabeth is my sister’s middle name and Rose was Matt’s grandmother’s first name. So Elizabeth’s name is two honor names but (ahem, don’t tell my sister this), those are mainly just names we liked and then we were like “oh, isn’t that convenient!”

Anyway, this time it is Matt’s turn to put in 51% of the vote. (The 51% can sound misleading, it’s just kind of that person’s job to come up with a name to which the 49% stakeholder says “oh, I love that name too!”) This baby is a boy. And we are stuck. We could name a girl in about fifteen minutes but we have been working on this boy’s name since MARCH and aren’t really much further. (I’m high risk, so I’ve been ultrasounded about a million times and have known it is a boy since twelve weeks. There is no doubt that it is a boy since this has been confirmed a good dozen times.)

Matt’s first choice for a name is John. And I love the name John. (Also, it is Matt’s middle name, which I think makes it extra great.) Except for one thing…the way it sounds when it is said out loud. Which is a pretty big thing for a name. It just sounds too short to me. And I’ve felt this way for a long time, as we have an acquaintance with a baby named John and every time she calls him, my brain says “and where is the rest of your name, kid?” So my feelings on this aren’t likely to change. Matt does not like Jonathan as a second option, mainly based on spelling. And his feelings haven’t changed since I first suggested that months ago.

Probably my front runner name right now is Andrew John. Neither of us like the nickname Andy (AT ALL), but one thing I have learned with having an Elizabeth is that we have pretty good control over nicknames, at least so far. She’s never called Beth or Liz or anything like that, mainly because Matt and I don’t use any of those. My dad had a short spell of calling her Lizzie, but since no one else used it or really encouraged it, Elizabeth it is. (She’s actually called Dibits a lot of the time because that is how she first pronounced Elizabeth herself as she was learning to talk and it stuck.) So if we went with Andrew, he would be called Andrew or Drew. Matt actually likes Drew quite a lot. But he’s not totally sold on Andrew and also feels like he wants to hold John in reserve in case we have another boy at any point.

Other names we have considered, in no particular order:

Kevin (we actually named our marriage project babies Kevin and Nicole, back in high school economics class. Matt and Jen: Naming Pretend Babies since 1998 and Can’t Do It For Real)

Steven (we like it but we both hate the nickname Steve and there’s not a lot you can do about that one)

Joseph (again, hate the nickname Joe or Joey)

Henry

Ryan

Charles

Peter

Walter

Tyler

We also love the name Michael and would probably use that without even thinking about it…but that is Matt’s youngest brother’s name and we already have a Michael. I’m totally anti juniors and I would never use a repeat name of a close family member. I would use a middle name (obviously, as we did) or a distant relative that we never see, but we see Mike quite a lot. (Also, Robert, but we have a very close friend Rob that lives near us that Matt sees on a daily basis. So no.)

Now, for my second naming dilemma. Last year, we had a late term loss of a little boy we named Luke. We discovered that he was dead before we discovered that he was a boy (I wasn’t high risk yet, so no ultrasounds every week), so we literally named him in a few minutes, in tears, after he was delivered. I’ve felt bad ever since that he never got a middle name. I would like to give him one now, but it would be just for us. We wouldn’t be going back and changing his official name on anything. I don’t really have any ideas for his middle name (and it hurts to think about it too hard). I’d like something that sounds good with Luke and maybe has some kind of meaning. So if you have any good ideas here, I would be grateful.

Now, go forth and name my baby!

I am gnashing my teeth, GNASHING THEM, over the John situation. John is one of my top favorite boy names, and you are SO CLOSE to using it, and “Elizabeth and John” is wonderful, and so I WANT to tell you that you DO NOT feel the way you do about the spoken-aloud version—but you have seen it happen on an in-person John, and so I agree with you (reluctantly, SULLENLY, agree with you) that it sounds like that’s not going to work out. (Gnash gnash.) (Would it help if you could call him Jonty as a nickname? Or is that the same spelling issue as Jonathan?) (And you could call him Baby John until John didn’t seem so short anymore!) (GNASH.)

Another John option is to give him a double name—either by actually giving him two first names or by calling him by first and middle. It gives you John, while also giving you a longer name to say.

May I suggest the pseudonym I’ve grown very fond of with the name Elizabeth? I call my twins Elizabeth and Edward as their blog names, and my mom and I have over the years found that now we almost wish I HAD named them Elizabeth and Edward: we find the names so appealing together and separately. Edward Gabriel.

If Edward is close-but-not-quite, I love the name Edmund.

Instead of Kevin or Steven, perhaps Evan or Ian.

I love Henry from your list. We almost used it for our youngest boy, but then another name took the lead so I contented myself by using it as his blog name. Henry Gabriel. Maybe Henry Michael or Henry Robert or Henry Tyler? Or, the middle name position is the perfect place for a love-the-name-but-hate-the-nickname name: a Henry Joseph or a Henry Steven completely avoids Joe/Steve.

Now. Brace yourself, because I want to push you to use a name on my “Why Won’t People OBEY Me?” list (also on that list: John, Karl, Louise). It’s a bit of a hard-sell name, but it goes beautifully with the names on your list. It’s George. GEORGE. Let it sink in. Think of George Clooney, perhaps.

George Gabriel. It’s one syllable like John, but it takes longer to say. Possible downside: would it bother you that the initial sounds were two different pronunciations of the letter G? Another possible downside: a little tricky to find a middle name. George Michael is out. George John is choppy. George Robert, George Steven, George Joseph—nothing clicks into place, quite. I looked up George Clooney’s middle name, and it’s Timothy; that does work well! Maybe something else with more than two syllables: George Nathaniel, George Everett, George Oliver, George Zachary—yes, I think the key might be to go for more syllables.

I like Everett and Oliver as first name options, too. Everett Gabriel, Oliver Gabriel.

James is another “one-syllable but may feel longer” option. James Tyler Gabriel, James Henry Gabriel, James Michael Gabriel.

I think a Benjamin would make an adorable little brother for an Elizabeth. Benjamin Gabriel; Elizabeth and Benjamin. Nickname issues to consider, though.

Or Nicholas. Again with nickname issues.

Or Owen would be sweet, and no natural nicknames.

For Luke, I suggest the middle name Matthew, after his father. Luke Matthew Gabriel.

Or if your maiden name would work, then he would have his own name, then a name from his mother, then a name from his father.

Or I might use the opportunity to honor an important male family member. It might be too painful for a living family member to be honored in this way (my first suggestion may be too painful for your husband), but perhaps a grandfather or great-grandfather or great-uncle.

For a meaning name, some baby name books say Geoffrey/Jeffrey means “peace” or “God’s peace.” The Oxford Dictionary of First Names says the name Noah means “rest” or “to comfort”; the name Solomon means “peace”; and the name Wilfred means “a hope for peace.”

Name update! Jen writes:

Greetings, Swistle and Baby Namers!

Our baby was born on September 26, with me arriving at the hospital in strong labor ten minutes before my scheduled check-in time for my induction. So the induction became a moot point and Ryan Matthew was born safely and alive, two hours later, at exactly 6:00pm!

Thank you for all your naming advice. A few weeks before he was born, I demanded three finalist names from my husband. Then we both said “Ryan? Hmm. Yes. Ryan.” And after lots of jokes about giving him the middle name Brian, we chose Matthew since Matt likes namesakes and would like to have one, if it weren’t a deal breaker for me. One of item of note- many of them names suggested both by you and by the commenters were names we either considered and dropped (close friends or similar reasons) or names of close family members. (Both Matt’s brothers’ first and middle names were suggested.) So obviously you are very good at matching our naming style!

Here is Ryan’s birth announcement!

Baby Girl Ferreira, Sister to Nicolas Vi

15 Replies

Jennifer writes:

I really love your blog and have been following it since I was pregnant with my son. My husband and I are expecting our second child, a girl, at the end of Oct. this year. We’re having a difficult time coming up with a name. My husband’s name Michael Ferreira and my name is Jennifer Dai-Ferreira. We’ve decided on a Vietnamese middle name to pay tribute to my heritage. The middle name will be “An” pronounced like the name “Ann”. It means peace in Vietnamese. We have a 3 year old son named Nicolas Vi Ferreira. His middle name is also Vietnamese and means vitality or strength. It was also the name of my great grandfather.

My husband and I are considering the following names for our baby girl:

Madeleine

Penelope

Giselle

Sophie

My favourite is Giselle but I don’t think it works with the middle name ‘An’. I’m considering adding another middle name before An but I’m afraid it may be too cumbersome.

As for the name Madeleine, I’m afraid it may sound too old fashion and I don’t like the nickname ‘Maddy’. I would prefer ‘Leni’.

I like the name Penelope but I’m not in love with it.

I also like the name Sophie but I’m not sure it’s a name that could carry her from childhood into adulthood.

Since both my name and my husband’s name are so common, we would like to give our daughter a less common name. There were always at least two other Jennifer‘s in my class growning up.

Lastly, I want to give her a name that will withstand the test of time and will serve her well wherever her life and career takes her.

Any suggestions would be welcomed!

If it’s important to avoid common names, Madeleine and Sophie are both probably out. The Social Security Administration lists Sophie as the 51st most popular girl name in the United States—but Sofia is the 19th, and Sophia is number one. And adding up the various spellings of Madeleine, Madeline, Madalyn, Madelyn, Madilyn, etc., brings that right into the Top Ten.

Madeleine, furthermore, can feel like it’s in a group with the other Maddy/Addy names (Madison, Addison, Adelyn, etc.), which may make it feel even more common than Sophie/Sophia/Sofia: a classroom with only one Madeleine but also a Madison, and Addison, and an Adelyn may feel similar to a classroom with two or three Jennifers. This feeling could be significantly reduced if she goes by Leni—but I think that nickname might be a hard-sell for a public so accustomed to the Madeleine/Maddy combination, a bit like trying to get a Jennifer called anything but Jen or Jenny: possible, but challenging.

The good news about the names’ popularity means that Madeleine definitely doesn’t sound old-fashioned right now, and Sophie will definitely be considered a childhood-to-adulthood name (though you could also use Sophia and nickname her Sophie). And since the current #1 most popular girl name in the United States is only used about 1/3rd or 1/4th as much as the name Jennifer was in its #1-status prime, perhaps neither one is so common it needs to be ruled out.

Penelope is less common but is currently doing a bit of a race up in popularity; it’s hard to know where that will end up. Penelope An is adorable, however, and Penelope is currently only the 169th most popular girl name. For perspective, the Social Security Administration reports than in 2011 there were 28,980 baby girls named Sophia/Sofia, and another 4,690 named Sophie, but only 1,847 named Penelope.

I think your favorite is also great, and that Giselle An Ferreira works just fine. The name Giselle is slightly more common than the name Penelope (there were 2,030 new baby girls named Giselle in 2011), but it feels LESS common because it’s been doing less leaping-and-bounding up the charts. It has been rising, perhaps because of the currently popular -elle ending, but seems to have tapered off for now.

If you had a back-up choice for the middle name, Gillian/Jillian or Gianna would be similar options. Ooo, or Geneva or Genevieve or Georgia or Josephine or Annabel! Or Gemma or Noelle or Lena. And I always think of Fiona when I’m considering Sophia, but I’m not sure how well that goes with the surname.

Baby Name to Consider: Grover

29 Replies

Jenn writes:

I am (unfortunately) not yet pregnant, but in a trivia quiz today my husband and I came across the name Grover (the question was about Grover Cleveland). We both decided that we like the name, and are considering it for our ever-growing-and-changing-shortlist. However, we are aware of the very strong association with Sesame Street. So I’m wondering what everyone thinks. I know that the association will be strong for most, but does it make it unusable? Would it be better in the middle name slot? What makes it different to Oscar, also from Sesame St, but now on so many cute wee boys?

Hope you and your fabulous readers can help us out.

PS – Before you say it’s no good – how cute would little Grover in a Super Grover shirt be?

PRETTY CUTE, that’s how cute. I have three associations with the name Grover:

1. Loveable furry Sesame Street Grover.

2. Former U.S. president Grover Cleveland.

3. A former hippie co-worker of mine, who used to ask me in dreamy tones how many birds I’d seen today. (Bird-counting is how you show you’re tuned in to nature around you.) (Apparently.)

The comparison to Oscar is a good one: without it, I’d be tempted to say I was afraid the name Grover was too tied to Sesame Street—but you’re absolutely right, the name Oscar is managing to overcome that. In 2011, the Social Security Administration reports 2,359 new baby boys named Oscar—but only 9 named Grover. WHY?

Even more mystifying, Oscar isn’t the recent “finally overcoming the television show” success I’d been thinking of it as: it was in the Top 100 until 1925, and it’s stayed steadily in the 100s and 200s rankings ever since. I’d have thought it would have gone down in popularity after Sesame Street aired, but in fact it got MORE common.

The name Grover had a remarkable surge in popularity around the time Grover Cleveland was president in the late 1800s, and then dropped to mostly the 200s and 300s for about 50 years, then dropped even further (400s, 500s, 600s, 700s) in the next 25 years, and then disappeared from the Top 1000 altogether in 1974 and hasn’t been back.

WHY? Theories welcome! And in the meantime, let’s have a poll over to the right, with reasons for our voting choices in the comments section. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Poll results for “What do you think of the name Grover?” (468 votes total):

I love it! I’d want to use it! – 34 votes (7%)
I like it! I’d want to consider it! – 62 votes (13%)
I like it for someone else’s baby – 161 votes (34%)
No particular opinion – 14 votes (3%)
Slight dislike – 99 votes (21%)
Strong dislike – 98 votes (21%)