Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl or Boy S., Sibling to Patrick, Lila, and Joel; Good C Names for Girls!

We watched The Sound of Music this past week, and a surprising number of the names sounded good to me. Liesl is a name Paul and I briefly considered for Elizabeth, but we didn’t like the way it rhymed with diesel, and the spelling/pronunciation issues were past our preference threshold. Still, I like the name. Louisa, another sister, has similar sounds but seems easier to use.

Georg (GAY-org) and Friedrich (FREE-drick) work very well when translated to George and Frederick.

Brigitta, Marta, and Gretl all appealed to me, though I’d spell Gretl as Gretel instead. I’m not sure I can get past the Hansel and Gretel association, but I did for the duration of the movie. One of the nuns is named Margaretta, which I also like.

Max was Max before that name sounded good again. And the Baroness’s name is Elsa!

Update on Baby Girl!

Dear Swistle,

I’m hoping you can help be get an unbiased opinion on some naming issues we are having.

We are expecting our second child in March and do not know the gender. Our son is Deacon and IF this baby is a boy, his name will be Charlie. We don’t love Charles, & I’m okay with a “nickname” as a first name (my full name is Nicki and it never bothered me) so I think we’ll leave it at that, plus I don’t really think Charles goes as well with Deacon.

Anyway, it’s the girl name we are soooo stuck on. We have a long list of “okay” choices, and a few that I like and a few that my husband likes. But nothing we agree on and definitely nothing that stands out to us as a strong candidate or even “the” name! Which is hard because I am so set on Charlie, I want to feel something for a girls name.

Right now my top name is Mercy, if I could name her myself, it would be done. But my husband isn’t fond of it. Other names I’ve suggested are: Blaire, Olive, Georgia, Tae (which I’m not sure sounds okay with our one-syllable last name) and Maren.

My husband loves Daisy (the name we were going to use if our first child would have been a girl) but I don’t want my kids to have the same letter, people would think we were going for a Duggar theme. My husband says that doesn’t matter, because we will have more kids but I think it would bother me until we did. Is that silly? To further compound this aversion is that our last name starts with a “D”. So adding Daisy just feels singsongy.

My husband also likes Nora (which I think is too popular) and Caroline (which is pretty but it’s how my Mother spells her name, but hers has always been pronounced Carolyn. Which I feel would cause a lot of confusion with any family/friends who know my Mom.)

For a middle name, I’ve thought about using mine (Tyler, which was my grandmothers maiden name). I’m not totally set on it, but a girl name that goes well with Tyler as a middle would be a plus. We feel strongly that middle names should honor family members or someone influential in either of our lives. The short list of middle names is Tyler & Lou.

So if you could help, I would really appreciate some insight. My goal is to find a name that is timeless, classic and feminine yet not overused and not a name that falls into the old-fashioned turned trendy category.

Thanks so much,
Nicki Dunn

I think the first thing I’d do if we were having this consultation over coffee is to find out what the various words mean to you, because usage varies so much: timeless, classic, trendy, overused, old-fashioned, feminine. I’d want to ask you a lot of questions to see if I could narrow in on the definitions: i.e., at what point for you does “in style” turn into “trendy”? Are Henry and Molly old-fashioned-turned-trendy, or are they classic/timeless? Are Harriet and Margaret feminine? Are Lydia/Audrey/Grace/Emily overused? And so on.

The name Deacon, for example, is modern in usage, and occupation/surname names are currently in style. I wouldn’t consider Charlie trendy per se (though it’s definitely enjoying one of its many returns to stylishness), but if someone specified “not old-fashioned turned trendy,” I’d be hesitant to suggest it in case that’s what they meant. Tae and Maren don’t seem to fall into the timeless or classic categories. Olive and Georgia and Nora seem like old-fashioned names that have come back into style, and I wouldn’t necessarily have used the word feminine to describe either Olive or Georgia, despite them being clearly/exclusively female names.

It is a bit of a challenge to find a name that is timeless/classic but not overused or old-fashioned-turned-trendy, because “overused” and “old-fashioned turned trendy” are perhaps the main two issues of timeless/classic names. One of the markers of a timeless/classic name (especially the classic ones) is that it keeps coming back into style; and sometimes when people use the word “trendy,” they mean “in style” or “just came back into style”; this can be avoided by using names that are OUT of style, such as Beverly and Bernice, but there’s always the danger that those are the next ones to come back in. Classic names typically go through cycles: first they’re in style, then they’re Parent Names, then they’re Grandparent Names, and then they’re Great-Grandparent Names and start to sound fresh and interesting again. The names Henry and Lucy are good examples: they go in and out, but they keep coming back, and right now they’re back. I don’t consider them trendy (their long usage keeps them safe from that, in my view), but if someone specifies “not old-fashioned turned trendy,” I’d wonder Henry/Lucy was exactly the sort of name they meant. “Vintage revival” would be another way to put it. The more popular ones in this category can find themselves called “trendy”; the less popular ones can find themselves called “hipster.” Often the names are FIRST called hipster, while they’re still unusual/edgy (I remember the startle factor of the first baby Lucy I encountered, more than 20 years ago), THEN called trendy as they come into more common usage.

Other timeless/classic names (especially the timeless ones) don’t go in and out like that, in which case they’re usually considered overused. John and Elizabeth are good examples of this: decade after decade they’re right up near the top of the popularity charts, timeless/classic, never trendy, but if someone says “not overused,” I’d be hesitant to suggest them. Their continued popularity decade after decade after decade can make the market feel saturated, and/or can make the names so familiar the eye skips right over them.

If your husband isn’t fond of the name Mercy, and he loves Daisy but the D initial is an issue for a couple of reasons, I wonder if you would like Maisy. If you want timeless and classic and not trendy, I think I’d start with Margaret and use Maisy as the nickname; Daisy is also a nickname for Margaret, so you could use it without the same D-initial problems.

If what you like about the name Mercy is the sound, I wonder if you’d like Darcy. It has the same D-initial issues as Daisy, however.

Or Mercedes, which means mercy or mercies (Oxford Dictionary of First Names; Baby Names Made Easy) and could be used with the nicknames Mercy or Sadie.

Lacey is another option. Lacey Dunn; Deacon and Lacey.

Or Lucy, but I suspect that’s too popular for your tastes, and may also be old-fashioned-turned-trendy.

Meredith doesn’t sound similar, but the visual similarity caught my eye and it feels like a very nice fit for your preferences. Merry is a cute nickname for it.

If what you like about the name Mercy is the virtue-name element, I wonder if you’d like Verity. I do start to feel a religious theme happening with either Deacon/Mercy or Deacon/Verity, but that may be a positive.

Felicity is another option. I also like Hope and Joy and Grace, but Grace is probably too popular for your tastes and forms Grace Ton or Gray Stun with your surname; and all three may turn your surname into Done.

Or Constance? I know a Constance who goes by Consie. Constance Dunn; Deacon and Constance.

Clementine means merciful (Baby Names Made Easy). Clementine Dunn; Deacon and Clementine. One of the issues people mention with the name Clementine is the difficulty of finding a good nickname; I would be interested in seeing if Minnie would stick.

Claudia comes to mind. Claudia Dunn; Deacon and Claudia.

Or Harriet. Harriet Dunn; Hattie Dunn; Deacon and Harriet.

Josephine Dunn; Josie Dunn; Deacon and Josephine.

Molly Dunn; Deacon and Molly.

Cordelia Dunn; Delia Dunn; Deacon and Cordelia.

Lydia Dunn; Deacon and Lydia.

Louisa Dunn; Deacon and Louisa.

A question for those of us looking for something quick and light to do today: What are your top two favorite names right now, one boy name and one girl name?

You can interpret this question however you like: as the top two you would actually use for an actual child, or the top two you’d use if you weren’t prevented by one thing or another—whatever you’d think of as “your two favorite names right now.” I suggest doing this fast/fun rather than careful/accurate, to avoid unfestive hand-wringing.

Hi there!

My wonderful daughter is nearly two years old. Naming her was a terrible struggle, since my husband and I agreed on very few names and were not 100% sold on any of them. After an exhaustive name hunt which involved list after list after list, we had two names going into the hospital.

We named our little one Fiona.

I love the name Fiona. I really do. I often call her “Fae” or “Fiona Fae” as nicknames. The name has been universally well received, which is great. So what’s the issue?

Everywhere we go, we meet baby Fionas born the same year as my daughter. One in her baby gym class, another at story time, another born to a friend’s daughter, so on and so forth. It is the only repeat name in any class or playtime we’ve ever taken her to (which sounds crazy, I know, but is absolutely true). People tell us all the time how many baby Fionas they’ve met.

One of the requirements for both of us was that our daughter’s name not be too popular. I’m a Jennifer-called-Jenny born in 1985, so I know how annoying it can be. According to Social Security, Fiona was only ranked #197 in the US in 2013 (her birth year) and #209 in 2012. We knew it was steadily rising, but it was so low down the list that we weren’t worried about it.

Apparently, though, all those Fionas were born in our community. We live in suburban Chicago. A couple other parents who have a Fiona have also admitted their frustration.

I have to be honest: This has made me really, really regret my daughter’s name.

Our second choice name was Juno. We were going to use the nickname June sometimes. If I had it to do over again, I would absolutely name her that. My husband doesn’t think about it as much as I do, although he is extremely annoyed. I would never consider changing her name at this point, but I can’t figure out how to come to terms with my disappointment. I don’t ever want my daughter to know that I think her name was mistake, so I need to deal with it.

Should I just start calling her “Fae” full-time, and give up Fiona? Half of our family has embraced this, and half never use it. My husband doesn’t call her that, but I do all the time and we’ve never met another Fae (or Faye or Fay). Should I try to put a positive spin on the twin-names all over the place? Suck it up and get over myself? Tough love is okay. I just really need some advice.

I hope you have time to get back to me. I appreciate your blog so much.

Thank you for reading,
Jennifer

I do think it would be very frustrating, to deliberately choose a name for its low popularity, to consult all the right statistics and make a decision based on those numbers, and still find yourself thwarted. And even worse that you had another name you liked nearly as well which would NOT have resulted in these issues. (Though I think Juno would have had issues of its own.)

Well. It’s a pickle. Is there a chance you will move from the area at some point? If so, you may find your problems immediately solved.

Or you may find that the issue resolves as she gets older, even if you stay in the same area. In my mommy-and-baby class with my firstborn, there was another baby with my son’s name (AND the mother had almost the same name as mine!). In our childbirth preparation class, the leader’s son had the same name, and another couple in that class used the same name. And then Paul’s cousin had a baby and used the same name as a middle name. It felt as if the name were EVERYWHERE! But now it doesn’t feel that way: we’re not in touch with the childbirth instructor or any of the families from the classes, and Paul’s cousin’s child goes only by his first name, and we’ve encountered only one other child with the name in all our various circles. As your Fiona gets older and is involved in different activities, it may coincidentally be enough to remove most of the other Fionas from her circle. I mean, it’s not something to count on, but it may happen for you as it did for us.

Name interest/discussions also peter out a bit after the early stages. At the beginning, everyone is noticing the names of new babies and commenting on them; and other parents, fresh from their own naming struggles or in the midst of new ones, are eager to discuss the topic. Later, there still may be occasional comments (“Oh, that’s my niece’s name!”), but names are in general less interesting to almost everyone, and there is less talk about it. (My peers look at me a little funny when I ask how they chose their middle-school-aged children’s names, which is why I am so glad to have a name blog.)

I do think it works fine to openly regret the POPULARITY of her name, without regretting the name itself—and you may find dividing it like that gives you some comfort and helps you resolve some of the mental conflict. Another of my sons has a name that was in the low 30s nationally when we chose it, but turned out to be top 10 in our state that year. We run into the name a LOT. I’ve found it helpful to frame it this way: I don’t regret using the name, because it is definitely his name. I only regret that so many OTHER people used it! I still love the NAME.

When that same son was in preschool, there were two other boys (out of twelve total boys) with his name. I found that a bit galling: even a top ten name doesn’t typically need to be braced for THREE in a classroom! I asked him if he wanted to change to a name very similar to his name, which in fact sounded like his first name with our surname initial, which is what he was being called in class; people were already occasionally mistaking it for his name anyway. I use pseudonyms on the site, but it would be as if his name were Joe L., and I asked if he wanted to go by Joel instead. He declined, and said he liked being “one of the Joes,” and that made me feel better about the situation, too. (He’s still friends with those boys, and they still call themselves The Joes. “Hi, Joe!,” one says. “Hi, Joe!,” replies the other.) This, though, leads me to another option for your daughter: you could ask her later what she wants. Would she like to switch to Faye, or would she like to stick to Fiona?

Or I think your idea of calling her Faye exclusively starting now could be a very good plan. If the situation is driving you crazy and making you regret her name, and if you like the name Faye just as much, this is a great time to switch: if I’d started calling my son Joel back when he was two, my guess is that’s what he would have gone with from then on.

But if you don’t like the name Faye as much, if you’re ONLY changing because of the popularity of a name you note has been universally well-received, then it doesn’t feel worth it. I think Fiona is a wonderful name. I like the way it looks, I like the way it sounds, I like everything about it. I like the name Faye, too, but I wouldn’t trade: I like Fiona too much more than Faye for that to be a good deal, if all I’m getting out of it is a reduction in popularity. I think instead I’d go the direction my son went and see it as belonging to The Fiona Club. It’s a pretty great club to have membership in. I’D want to join.

Or, as you mention, there’s the Tough Love approach. These things just HAPPEN sometimes. Parents choose a name thinking it is simple to spell and pronounce, but to their surprise everyone seems to get it wrong. Or they like a common name but it’s too common, so they choose a less-common version of it, but then everyone mistakes it for the more common version anyway. Or they choose a name right before a royal couple chooses it. Or they choose a name that ends up being the name of a criminal in a big news story. Or they choose a name and everyone who hears it makes the same remark/joke/association (“Oh, like that movie?”). Or they choose a name that is soon being used as an example of what parents want to avoid (“One of the -adens”). Or they choose a name they think of as girl, but almost everyone assumes boy. In short: you’re not alone. You did the best you could with the information available to you, and it turned out not to work as hoped. You nevertheless chose a WONDERFUL name, a name you love, a name everyone else loves too. These things happen, and this time it happened to you, but it is a small and reasonable and common thing to have happen, and not too hard to suck up as far as suck-up-required things go.

If you want the love even tougher, you can use the method I think is absolutely unacceptable to EVER EVER EVER use on other people but can work if one uses it judiciously on oneself, which is to remind yourself of all the things that can go wrong with pregnancy and childbirth and infancy, and to think of what a small thing this is to go wrong by comparison. Use that one lightly: it’s a useful tool for perspective readjustment if you feel you could use some, but don’t go too far and start believing that if you don’t have The Worst Problem in the Whole World, that means you can’t be unhappy or disappointed, or can’t complain. ABSOLUTELY you can. Of COURSE you can. It is in fact the tagline on my main blog: “I acknowledge my luckiness, without giving up my claim to the suckiness.” This is supposed to be a tool to make yourself feel BETTER, not WORSE, and to help yourself shake the bad feelings you’d rather not have about the name, so if it isn’t working that way I’d go right back to the gentler approach.

Update (and photo) on Baby Girl Cox, Sister to Matthew, Holly, and Lilah!

I am on my way out the door to do more frantic shopping/errands, but wanted to post something. This is one of the letters I didn’t get to last week, but thought would be fun to work on. In my spreadsheet I noted “Suggest Marilla.”

Hi!

I’ve been trying to figure this out on my own, but I think it’s time to ask for help. We are in the USA and this will likely be our last child. My name is Ali (Alison) and husband is Trevor.

Baby #2 (unknown sex) is due mid-February 2015. Our last name is Gibbs. Baby #1 is Myra Taylor. For no particular reason, I have been looking for names that peaked around the same era as “Myra (1920s and it seems 1880s),” but certainly not limited to that. I am not really interested in anything top 200 or up and coming. I actually enjoy the very rare occasions we run into another Myra.

My top two names are Chester (boy) and Rissa (girl) though Nell (girl) is a close second, but already used by a cousin with the same last name. Husband hasn’t vetoed them, but hasn’t fallen in love either. Middle name will definitely be either Jeffrey or Christine.

Names we like but, so far, aren’t choosing for one reason or another, mostly popularity: Anissa, Emma, Delilah, Silas, Judah, Everett.

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Name update!

Hi!

Baby Boy Gibbs was born on his due date, February 11. Thank you all for the wonderful name suggestions. If he had been a girl, we would have most likely used Esme as we fell in love with it after reading these comments. We were strongly considering Nell as a second choice. In the brief time between sending my email and it being posted, my husband suggested Nikolai as a version of Nikola (from Tesla). I liked Nikolai okay, but we both liked the sound of Niko even more. So, he is Niko (Nikolai) Jeffrey. Thanks again for all the suggestions, we strongly considered quite a few from the comments! In fact, he was nameless for three hours after birth while we considered names.