Category Archives: name update

Baby Naming Issue: Place Names, Specifically Marina

Traci writes:

You helped me out less than a year ago when we were expecting our first. Now we’re expecting AGAIN.
Besides the craziness that is having two babies less than a year apart, we have a new naming issue.
We don’t know the gender of this baby, but if it is a girl, we would like to name her Marina Lynn, after both our mothers. (His mother = Marina, Mine = Lynn). I love most everything about the name Marina. I love that my husband loves it, I love the way it sounds, I love that it is a precious namesake like our first child. The ONLY THING I don’t like about it is that Marina is a thing in English. (A place, actually. “Let’s have lunch at the marina.”) To me, a name that is a thing/place like Marina is different than a name that is a thing like Rose. I can’t explain why, exactly, but it just bothers me. As an avid reader of your site (and because you steered us so right the first time and we took your advice and couldn’t be happier!) I thought that I’d get your take on it. Should I get over it? Is there a way to frame it that might help me get over it? I also thought of spelling it Marinah. Does that seem like a viable solution? Is there another solution I haven’t thought of? I thought you might take the opportunity to talk about names that are things (or places) in general, to help more readers than just me.

Thank you!

This is the kind of question where I have to rein in my urge to PUSH you to use the name. You love it! It’s a family name! Place names are a totally valid category of names! I want to FORCE the place issue not to bother you! But if something bothers, it bothers, and there’s no “just don’t let it” about it. So let’s work on the reframing idea.

In this particular case, it would influence me whether you live near a marina or not. DO you ever suggest having lunch at the marina, or is there no marina? Proximity/confusion issues matter to me, which is why I also wouldn’t suggest using Madison in or near Madison, Wisconsin, or Brooklyn in or near Brooklyn, New York—but wouldn’t blink at either one of them used in Michigan. But of course people can move later on, so it still doesn’t dismiss the point.

It also matters to me how tied the name is to the place. I don’t immediately think of Madison and Savannah and Florence as place names even though I know they are; Georgia is definitely a place name but also strongly a name-name; and India and Ireland are places until I shake off the confusion and realize that in this case it’s someone’s name. For me, Marina is somewhere between Savannah and Georgia: I’d know it was a place, and I’d know to take that into account—but it wouldn’t bother me to use it, even knowing that the child might later move to Georgia or near a marina/savannah.

In fact, maybe it would help to think how quickly a place association can vanish. Brittany! Austin! Jordan! Devon! Cody! Chelsea!

Or, this one may backfire, but: do you think of a marina whenever your mother-in-law’s name comes up? (If so, never mind and forget I said anything.) Has anyone you know ever commented on the connection? (“Marina? Oh, like the place we have lunch!”)

Or it helps me to think about how serious a situation it would be if the connection WERE made, or if the child DID move later on. How much of a problem/issue would it be for a girl named Madison to live in Wisconsin? There were 152 more of them born there last year, so my guess is it’s not too bad. And Brooklyn is #15 in New York even though it’s only #34 nationally. Place names are common honor names, so the connection can be a positive one.

Do you LIKE marinas? If someone hates roses, Rose is probably a non-starter of a baby name for them; but if they love roses, it adds to the appeal and makes the name an even more personal choice. The appeal of a forest or a haven or a savannah or a sky can be the very thing that makes someone CHOOSE a name like Forrest or Haven or Savannah or Skye.

Marinas are pretty.

It’s too bad about Mirena, or I’d recommend that spelling. Marinah looks like mah-RY-nah to me, probably because of Mariah. I suppose you could use Marena (though I might say that one mare-ree-na or mah-RAY-nah instead of mah-REE-nah), but I think it’s probably best to stick with the standard spelling.

Name update:

Hello, Swistle!

You helped me name our first child, and then we had a question about our second child who we wanted to name Marina. That child was born a beautiful baby boy. Four years later we welcomed our third child, a girl. We named her Marina Lynn, after her two grandmothers. We took your wonderful advice and kept the name as it was, without changing the spelling. We are thrilled. We love the name, and it suits her. I don’t have any hangups about a Marina being an actual place (in part because we no longer live near a marina.) Also, my mother was incredibly touched and honored at the namesake. Thank you for your great advice! Even years later it’s helpful. You helped us name two out of three of our children.

Oh here’s a photo of little miss Marina Lynn!

Middle Name Challenge: Rhys Kelly or Olive Kelly

15 Replies

Alison writes:

Hi there! Came across your blog in search of a non-lame baby naming source, and I am already swooning over you and your worker bees.

Here’s our situation.

Background: Husband in a musician, I’m an corp junkie and a yoga/dance teacher during my off hours.

Requirements: Want a non-lame name, that works for a rockstar, a poet or a school teacher. As versatile as possible. We have no middle name requirements, As long at it sounds great, we are happy.

We are unsure of the sex of the baby although we will be hoping to find out prior to the birth. Although our first pregnancy, my husband comes from a massive family so many traditional/biblical names are spoken for. Not that I’m religious (as we are not) but just a heads up. Also, our pets names are Seamus, Pickles and Bonham. Just in case you were thinking Pickles :)

For a boy, we love the name Rhys. Our last name is Kelly, so we want to find a middle name that completes what we deem is a rockin’ name.

For a girl, we have yet to find any names that we love. Names that we like but not love are Juliet, Violet and Sloan.

Thanks in advance for your help and your tremendous blog.

and

So we discovered we love Olive as a girls name, but again stuck on a middle name.

If you don’t have specific plans for the middle name, it’s a good place for an honor name: a family member, a family surname, your maiden name, a musician or author you admire, a place of significance.

Other possibilities:

Rhys Darwin Kelly
Rhys Desmond Kelly
Rhys Edmund Kelly
Rhys Everett Kelly
Rhys Ezra Kelly
Rhys Frederick Kelly
Rhys Gabriel Kelly
Rhys Hugo Kelly
Rhys Liam Kelly
Rhys Merrit Kelly
Rhys Milo Kelly
Rhys Matthias Kelly
Rhys Turner Kelly
Rhys Walker Kelly
Rhys Warren Kelly
Rhys Wilson Kelly

Olive Bianca Kelly
Olive Cordelia Kelly
Olive Francesca Kelly
Olive Geneva Kelly
Olive Harlow Kelly
Olive Jane Kelly
Olive Josephine Kelly
Olive Leticia Kelly
Olive Linnea Kelly
Olive Louisa Kelly
Olive Margot Kelly
Olive Mattea Kelly
Olive Melina Kelly
Olive Minerva Kelly
Olive Noelle Kelly
Olive Padgett Kelly
Olive Sabrina Kelly
Olive Silvia Kelly
Olive Simone Kelly
Olive Sterling Kelly
Olive Winifred Kelly
Olive Winslow Kelly

Name update! Alison writes:

Hi!

Wanted to send you an update on our name choice. We ended up having a boy, and named him Rhys Gibson Kelly. Gibson seemed to be the winning name amongst our choices, regardless of the musical tie. We love the fact that after we named him Rhys Gibson, his name can be known to mean “Enthusiastic, Laughing” which makes me all warm inside. And so far, Rhys Gibson lives up to his name in every way.

Thanks for your help!

Baby Boy Like-Miller-with-a-B, Brother to Callum Daniel

12 Replies

Kimberly writes:

We are expecting our second child, another boy, in early May! Our older son’s name is Callum Daniel. In an earlier post, you suggested Callum and Liam for twin boys’ names, and I’m wondering if you could please poll your readers to get their opinion on whether Callum and Liam sound too similar in a sibling set. Your opinion, of course, is much appreciated as well! Other first names under serious consideration are Andrew and Aiden (very popular in our region); the middle name is undecided but of less concern. Our naming guidelines are:

· No beginning or ending in B

· No names that are things (our surname is a thing)

· No two-syllable names that end in “er” (too sing-songy with our last name)

We had planned to use Amelia for a girl, and we are undecided on whether we will have more children.

If you choose to publish my question and need to use a substituted last name, I recommend “sounds like Miller with a B.”

Though I spend a lot of time lurking, I really appreciate your down-to-earth advice on naming and parenting in general!

Thank you,

I think my vote is that Callum and Liam are a little too close, but not deal-breakingly close: that is, if you love both names and decide to use them, there are plenty of sibling sets where the names are a little more similar than would be ideal (or even quite a bit more similar than would be ideal) but it’s completely fine and not enough reason to give up a favorite name.

A name I love with Callum is Declan. They share some sounds, so perhaps they too are too similar, but they sound more different to my ear.

If you love Aidan but find it too popular in your area, I wonder if you’d like Aidric? I’m surprised it isn’t more common.

Eamon would also fit very well. I recommend it second to Aidric because Aidric seemed easy to pronounce/spell even the first time I heard of it, but I’ve had to learn that Eamon is AY-mon (as opposed to EE-mon) and I still have to think about it.

I heard a little boy addressed as Garrett the other day, and it struck me that that’s another name I could stand to hear more often.

Oh, Griffin! I like Griffin even more! Callum and Griffin; Cal and Finn! A griffin is sort of a thing, though. I say “sort of” because I”m not sure what percentage of the population is familiar with that (almost everyone? only certain segments?), and I also wonder if the name is established enough that the connection to the thing doesn’t spring readily to mind; and because I think of the thing as being spelled gryphon (because of, I think, ONE book I read with a gryphon in it).

Well, if Griffin is out for thingness, I think I like Keegan even better anyway. It means two names starting with the same sound; would that make you feel stuck with a third child, if you had one? Callum and Keegan. I love that.

Enough chit-chat; let’s have that poll about Callum/Liam over to the right! [Poll closed; see results below.]

Poll results for “What do you think of Callum and Liam as brother names?” (358 votes total):

Too similar to use – 94 votes (26%)
A little too similar, but fine to use – 158 votes (44%)
Not too similar – 99 votes (28%)
Can’t decide – 7 votes (2%)

Name update! Kimberly writes:

Our family proudly welcomed Keegan Andrew on May 3! We are smitten! Thank you for helping us name our chunky monkey (he was 9 lbs, 15 oz at birth)!

Baby Naming Issue: Preferences vs. Requirements

38 Replies

Julia writes:

We have three boys and are expecting our fourth child, a girl, in early March. My name is Julia, my husband is Greg, and our surname is Holloway.

Our boys are Leo Sebastian (7), Asher Hugo (5), and Simon Frederick (2). We consider ourselves pros at naming boys. My husband and I are equal partners in the naming process and really enjoyed it with our sons. We absolutely adore their names and think we did a pretty damn good job with them. But we’re starting to doubt our naming prowess with our daughter.

The problem is that we suck at naming girls. This is our first girl, and probably our last (we aren’t sure if we want another child after this one), so we want her name to be absolutely perfect. If this baby was a boy he would have been Jude Atticus or Felix Alasdair, depending on what he looked like. Done deal, give me the birth certificate so I can sign it already. But this wee lass is a giant pain as we are absolutely stumped on her name.

I suppose the problem is that we’re very conscientious about names. Like, we really like Ivy (it’s honestly the only one we’ve found that we like), but discarded it because of the long “i” sound it shares with Simon’s name. We don’t want her name to begin or end the same as any of our sons’ names and we don’t want any of the same dominant sounds. And this rules out a lot of names.

We also don’t want a name with an easy nickname, nor a name above two syllables.

Also we would like her name to end in a vowel, though it’s not mandatory.

We know that we want her name to be feminine but not frilly, soft but strong, elegant yet playful. Does it even exist? Are we being way too picky?

We did look at the meanings for our sons’ names when choosing them (Leo means “lion”, Asher means “lucky/happy one”, and Simon means “the listener”) and while it’s not TERRIBLY important we would like the meaning to be at least nice, if not wonderful.

Thank you, Swistle!

You are just as good at naming girls as you are at naming boys. The problem you’re encountering is that you’re setting up unnecessary requirements. “Not sharing a vowel sound with any siblings” is too strict when combined with “no more than two syllables,” “no nicknames,” “no sharing either beginning or ending sounds with a sibling,” and “having four children.”

It’s important when choosing a baby’s name to note the differences between requirements and preferences. A requirement might be something like “not creating a silly phrase with our surname.” A preference might be something like “not starting with the same initial as a sibling name.” Of course it will vary from situation to situation: in some families, different initials might be the requirement and making a silly phrase might be a goal. The main difference is that requirements must be VERY FEW, or else they create a logic puzzle that not one single name in the universe can satisfy. Preferences, on the other hand, may come in the form of long lists, because it is understood that any of them can be abandoned if a name meets most of them, or if a name is wonderful enough to be worth ditching them.

The first step, then, is to divide your long list of requirements into two lists, one of actual requirements, and one of preferences. With two or three children, I think it might be reasonable to want not to share any beginning sounds, any ending sounds, any dominant sounds, or any vowel sounds. With four children, I think it’s time to re-evaluate that for actual importance. A family of Leo, Asher, Simon, and Ivy does not make me think “OMG, they repeated the long-I sound!! Don’t they realize their children are INDIVIDUALS??” On the contrary, I’d think what a good job the family had done finding such completely different names that nevertheless went together well.

One way to separate out the requirements from the preferences is to ask yourself whether you think the rule is more important than the name—that is, whether you should dismiss a name you agree on and love, just because you’ve made an arbitrary rule and now the name doesn’t meet it. Which is more important, the name or the rule you made? If you reluctantly say that the rule is more important (as you might if your surname were Dover and your favorite name were Ben), then what you have is a requirement. If you think, “Wait. No, that would be silly: if the name of our dreams, the name we can’t bear not to use, is a name that has three syllables even though we said it couldn’t have more than two, we don’t actually have to let that rule boss us around,” then what you have is a preference.

Preferences can be a helpful tool for sorting through enormous piles of names. And it’s very satisfying to find a name that meets most or all of the preferences, which you might still do. But when preferences start running the show or making you feel frantic, or when every name you like is at the mercy of the preferences, that means the preference list is now the unreasonable boss rather than the helpful tool. You’re the one setting the standards for what qualifies as perfection, so you are also the ones who can re-set those standards.

It sounds to me like the name you’re looking for is Ivy. It doesn’t have more than two syllables. It doesn’t have an easy nickname. It ends in a vowel. It’s feminine but not frilly. It’s soft but strong. It’s elegant but playful. It’s wonderful with your surname, and with the sibling names. Eliminating it because it shares a single sound with a brother’s name is not conscientiousness, it’s pickiness. (And the name Felix would have repeated not only the long-E but also the only consonant sound of Leo.)

Now, if you don’t love the name Ivy, that’s a different story. In that case, we still need the section about requirements vs. preferences, but you also need name suggestions.

My first suggestion is Clara. It doesn’t share the first or last sounds of any brother names. It’s feminine, non-frilly, soft, strong, elegant, playful. It’s not as good with your surname as Ivy, but it’s still good: Clara Holloway. I suggest Felicity as the middle name, unless that would eliminate Felix for a future baby. Clara Felicity Holloway.

My second suggestion is Rose. It’s gotten common as a middle name, but is still surprising and fresh as a first name, while also sounding classic and traditional: a very nice combination. Rose Holloway is wonderful. Leo, Asher, Simon, and Rose. I suggest Eliza as the middle name to emphasize the Z sound of both names: Rose Eliza Holloway.

My third suggestion is Phoebe. Elegant but playful. Two syllables. Ends in a vowel. Great with the brother names. Etc. I suggest the middle name Louise: Phoebe Louise Holloway.

My fourth suggestion is Beatrix. It has three syllables, or maybe more like 2.5, and it doesn’t end in a vowel—but I reject those preferences in favor of this name. Talk about elegant but playful! Talk about feminine but non-frilly! BEATRIX, baby. It’s similar to your boy name choice Felix, but without being as similar to Leo. I suggest the middle name Philippa: Beatrix Philippa Holloway.

My fifth suggestion is Greta. Look at how gorgeous it is with your surname. (I like Margaret even better, but that has tons of established nicknames.) I suggest Magnolia as the middle name: Greta Magnolia Holloway.

I think I’ll stop counting my suggestions. Next up is Meredith. Three syllables, true; if that turns out to be one of the truly important requirements, then never mind. But man, what a great name with your surname and with the brother names. Leo, Asher, Simon, and Meredith! Meredith Holloway! Maybe put Ivy as the middle name, if it turns out not to work as a first name: Meredith Ivy Holloway.

Next is Ruth. Ruthie springs to mind as a nickname, but I love it with the brother names. Leo, Asher, Simon, and Ruth. A much more serious spin on the group than something like Phoebe, though. I’d put something light and feminine as the middle name; maybe Clarissa. Ruth Clarissa Holloway.

To maintain a lighter touch, maybe Ruby: Leo, Asher, Simon, and Ruby.

Ruby would make me think of Lucy, but I suspect that won’t fly with Leo. But Lucy makes me think of Darcy, which I think fits better anyway: Leo, Asher, Simon, and Darcy.

Name update! Julia writes:

So um I just had the baby eight hours ago but I’m so excited about her name I just had to give you an update!

We went to the hospital with three names: Phoebe Juniper, Clara Beatrix, and Eloise Ivy (which was a miracle in itself seeing that when I first begged you for help we had absolutely nothing). We loved them all equally and had no idea how we were going to pick. Like, I was expecting the decision of her name to be harder than actually giving birth to her.

But. When I held her the first thing I noticed is that she had this little scrunched-up look on her face and when our son Leo held her for the first time she punched him in the nose; our three-year-old Simon didn’t want to hold her after she pinned him with a tough glare. So her personality helped us narrow down the names. She wasn’t a sunny, sweet Phoebe. She wasn’t a soft, playful Eloise. This baby was a no-nonsense, I-may-be-a-only-a-few-hours-old-but-I-am-already-the-boss-of-all-of-you Clara Beatrix.

We’re all doing great and HOLY MOTHER we named our daughter a name we actually adore to pieces. Thank you, Swistle! It was your suggestions of Clara and Beatrix that made the names click with us. And the preferences vs requirements post for us was extremely helpful. So thanks again!

Anyway, I’m sorry if I’m insensible. I just needed to share my happiness about Clara’s name and couldn’t wait!

Baby Boy Harris, Brother to Abig@il Elizabeth: Family Member Doesn’t Want a Namesake

22 Replies

L. writes:

My husband and I had the perfect name picked out for our son who is due in early March, but our plan has fallen apart. We were going to name him after his two grandfathers Leon@rd (mine) James (his) and we were going to call him Leo. Even though we had told no one our name, this week my father made sure to let me know in no uncertain terms that he would never forgive me if I named this baby after him. Needless to say, I am heartbroken.

So, back to the drawing board we go. If this baby had been a girl, she would have been Eleanor (nickname Nora). I prefer older, traditional names (preferrably with a cute nickname). I also want to stay away from the top 10 names. (I would never have named Abby that if I’d realized at the time how popular her name was.) I do realize that Eleanor/Nora is also becoming more popular, but we love it for it’s family significance. Of the names in the top 50 from the Social Security list for 2010, the only one that even pops out as a possibility is Isaac.

Things that are important to me for the name is that it have at least 2 syllables and not end in an S. (I like Charles, but Charles James Harris is a little much.)

One name that I like, but am unsure I could pull the trigger on if if my husband would agree, is Oswald. Help!

I feel like we need more information from your father. Why would he say such a thing? When he said it, did you ask what his reason was? I’m kind of looking forward to after the baby is born, when you can tell him that you WERE going to name the baby after him but then he screwed everything up. That was a GREAT NAME you’d chosen.

Leo and Charles were two of our top contenders for Henry, so I wonder if you’d like Oliver, also on our list. Oliver James Harris; Abigail and Oliver.

Another from that list was Elliot. Elliot James Harris; Abigail and Elliot.

Another from that list was Milo. Milo James Harris; Abigail and Milo.

I’d recommend Henry, too, if you like alliteration.

A name that shot to the top of my list after Henry was born is Simon. Simon James Harris; Abigail and Simon.

Another is Everett. I think it’s so handsome with your surname. Everett James Harris; Abigail and Everett.

I do love the name Isaac, if you want to consider it more. Nicknames could be Ike or Zack. Isaac James Harris; Abigail and Isaac; Abby and Zack.

I know a sibling set of Abigail and Owen, and I’ve thought of it as a very good combination. Owen James Harris; Abigail and Owen.

Are there any other men from your side of the family who would make good namesakes? Maybe one of your grandfathers or uncles? It’s so disappointing to have a good namesake name all set to go and then have it ruined!

Name update! L. writes:

I just wanted to let you and your readers know that our son was born on March 1, 2012. I took a step back from the naming dilemma for a while and let the situation (and my hormones) settle down a bit, but I did eventually have a conversation about the name with my Dad. He was a little embarrassed that he had reacted so strongly, but it turns out that he never liked his name because of some unwelcome nicknaming that went along with it. He was both surprised and flattered that we planned to name our son after him. Here is a picture of our newest edition, Leonard James. Thanks so much for your help. I appreciate you and your readers being the voice of reason for me.

Baby Girl F-urn

17 Replies

Courtney writes:

My husband and I need help naming our first child, a baby girl, who is due to arrive at the very beginning of April. I’m Courtney and his name is Joel with the last name of F-urn (but it’s spelled like the plant). We cannot agree on any sort of name. We plan on having 3-4 kids, so the thought of naming a sibling is in my head. I love older names (Charlotte) and he loves extremely popular names right now (Sophia and Olivia). One of the problems comes in because I teach high school and I have MANY students who I would never want to name my child after (which is why I am adamantly against Olivia). I love the idea of using family names but between the two of us, the only decent family name is Elizabeth, which is my middle name. Right now I am leaning towards Elizabeth as a middle name because everything seems to go with it and because of the family connection. I am Southern so I am definitely open to the double name; my husband also likes the double names except it seems that everything is paired with Beth. I want to stray away from all the Kaleeys, Baileys, etc. I want a name that is decidedly feminine (no gender neutral names or anything with a gender neutral nickname). One of our other requirements is that it is 2 syllables, since we have a 1 syllable last name. Our favorite name is Lily, but there is no way we could ever name our daughter Lily Fern (as a teacher I would laugh out loud seeing that on a roster).

His choices:
Olivia
Sophia (and call her Sophie)

My choices: (I really like the letter C in case you can’t tell)
Charlotte
Caroline (this is lower on my list)
Cecilia
Chloe
Claire (although it only has 1 syllable and he veotes it because it’s the name of a Kardashian)
Emma (but it is SO popular right now with little girls)

My hesitation comes in giving my daughter the same initials I have and I don’t want to name my child after myself (which is what my husband’s sister did). I prefer to not be in the top 10 names, but it seems like the styles we like are all on the top 10 list. I feel like I’ve searched through every website and and every book (including the Baby Name Wizard, which I know you recommend). I’m hoping you and your readers can offer some help!

Thanks so much!!

I am a little embarrassed to have Kardashian trivia easily at hand, but there it is: you have a subscription to People magazine, you pick up on certain things. I don’t think there are any Kardashians named Claire (or as they’d certainly spell it, Klaire). There is, however, a Chloe, which they spell Khloé. (The others are Kourtney, Kim, Kendell, Kylie, and Casey who must feel quite left out, but Kris didn’t name her so what can you do.)

So that would put Claire back on your list, except I agree it’s choppy with the one-syllable surname. Instead I suggest Clara. Clara Elizabeth F-urn. I think sharing your initials and middle name is sweet, without being very noticeable or seeming like an obvious namesake.

You’re right, Emma is very popular. Gemma, however, is not. Gemma Elizabeth F-urn.

Because you have Cecilia, I’ll suggest Cecily. Cecily Elizabeth F-urn.

Cecilia also makes me think of Felicity. It depends on how you feel about alliteration, but I think Felicity F-urn is pleasingly whimsical without overdoing it.

The suggestion of Sophia always makes me think of Fiona, because of the similar sounds. Then Fiona and Sophia make me think of Bianca, because that’s another one with a similar rhythm. Fiona again depends on how you feel about alliteration.

A less common version of Olivia is Liviana. It gives you the nickname Livvie—similar to your favorite Lily but without the botanical association.

Another name with a similar sound is Lydia. The nickname Liddy is again reminiscent of Lily.

Another name with a good strong V sound is Genevieve.

Mulling over Sophia and Olivia brought Sabrina to mind. Sabrina F-urn.

If your favorite name is Lily, I wonder if you would like Milly. It can be short for Amelia, Camilla, or Emeline, all of which seem compatible with the other names on your list.

Or Lila. I’d caution that I think Lila along with its alternate spellings is heading for the Top Ten—but many names look as if they’re heading that way before hovering nicely in the non-top-ten Top Fifty.

Or Jillian, with the nicknames Jill and Jilly.

Or Willa is so pretty. Willa F-urn.

Another goes-with-almost-everything middle name I like is Louise, especially since then it gives you Lou for nicknames. Gemma Louise becomes Gemma-Lou; Clara Louise becomes Clara-Lou; Lydia Louise becomes Liddy-Lou.

Name update! Courtney writes:

I wanted to email you and let you know that we finally decided on a name for this baby. We are going with Lila Elizabeth. I think you are right about it becoming a popular name because we know of a couple other Lila’s being born this year also, which is fine with me. I cannot thank you and the readers enough for helping us decide on a name for this baby.

Thank you for your help!!

Baby Naming Issue: Andromeda or Andi?

23 Replies

Jolene writes:

I’ve been following your blog for a while, and have really enjoyed the baby name advice you’ve provided to others… so I figured I’d give it a go and ask you our question. We are expecting our first child any day now (Due date Dec 20) and are having some trouble deciding on a Girl’s Name. (We still don’t know the sex, boys names aren’t quite so contentious… we both agreed on Malcolm Marshall without too much arguing)

Our last name is kind of long… sounds like “Donaldson”. Before getting married I had a fairly short name (2 syllables first name, 2 syllables last name) so I’m a bit intimidated by the length of our last name in pairing it with other names.

My husband is in LOVE with the name “Andromeda” for a girl, and maybe using the nickname “Andi” for everyday. I do like the name, but I wonder if it’s too much of a handle for a teeny little girl – it’s really long, and uncommon where we live. When she grows up, she could use a shortened form – like Andi, Romi, Meda, etc – but I wonder if we might not be better off to use the nickname right from the beginning. I really love the name Andi, and it fits well with my own middle name.

My proposal is Andi Lynn “Donaldson”… but the husband is insisting that it must be Andromeda Lynn “Donaldson” and still call her Andi everyday.

Are we asking for trouble with such a long name? If we plan on using the nickname every day, is it better to just have that be her legal name?

Thank you for your time :)

In some cases, I like a more formal/serious given name to fall back on. In other cases, it seems silly to force a formal name that will never be used. In general, I lean toward OPTIONS, and so I lean toward formal names with nicknames, rather than nicknames-as-given-names. But it has to be case-by-case, because there are so many issues to consider.

In this case, I am charmed by the father’s love of the name, and I am persuaded by the easy nicknames. The name Andromeda is no longer than the name Elizabeth; and although Andromeda Donaldson would be a mouthful with all those D sounds, I see from your email address that the actual surname is a much nicer fit. It doesn’t seem too long to me at all, especially with a short middle name.

If you’re willing to go with Andromeda, and if you don’t think it will cause you problems later when choosing sibling names, I vote for making it the given name, and then using Andi as an easy nickname for any community. Let’s have a poll over to the right, to see what everyone else thinks. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Andromeda

Name update! Jolene writes:

Our little girl arrived on December 30, 2011 of course… And we decided to go with the name: Andromeda Lynn Richardson… But with a twist – were calling her Romy for short.

She’s a sweet little girl, and though we’re completely exhausted, things are finally starting to even out a bit as far as a routine goes.

Thanks to you and your readers for your opinions on the name. I’d be interested to know what the final tally was on the poll as well. We only had one person have a really negative reaction to the name (unfortunately my father in law) and he’s saying that he wants to call her his “little Annie” instead of Romy. If they want to have that little thing between them maybe that’s ok in the end? We’ll deal with it as it comes I guess :)

Thanks again!

Baby Boy _____er, Brother to Sisters Tatum and Campbell

28 Replies

Jen writes:

Hi Swistle!
Here we are, baby #3 and you would think we’ve never done this naming business before. But, we are stumped. I think that we could name a gaggle of girls, but now that we are faced with naming a boy, we are stuck. We have 2 girls, Tatum and Campbell. There was a short list when naming both girls, but the one name that kept creeping up during both of their births was Barrett. Any other names have long since been forgotten.
As we consider names, we definitely want something that isn’t too popular. My husband and I are Jennifer and Jason, complete with my brother, another Jason and his sister, another Jennifer. I would love for my children to only be identified by their first names and not by their first names and the first initial of their last name like we all had to deal with throughout our lives. Since our girls names are more masculine, we want a boy’s name that is different, but doesn’t take on too much of a feminine quality. My husband is also beginning to fight for names that are more “normal” but I still want to stay away from popular. I guess we are trying to find a middle ground that might include a mainstream name, but not too mainstream.
Our last name is a verb that ends in -er, so most names with an -er ending are out. I am also not a fan of many of the -den names like Caden, Braden, Jaden and Brendan. Our family is oversaturated with biblical names including Samson, Samuel, Seth, Silas, Gabriel, Simon and Shadrach, so I’d like to avoid duplication of those. The only other semi-restriction we have on names is that we would like to avoid a name that lends itself easily to a nickname. While we still love Barrett for a boy, we are worried about him being called Barry. A name that could be shortened isn’t out, but we’d have to consider it carefully.
We aren’t set on a middle name yet, although we are considering both Jason and Brett. These aren’t set in stone though because we are more concerned with figuring out the first name. The current list of names only includes names that I like and my husband is mostly indifferent about. Unfortunately, he hasn’t brought any names to the table, so I’m stuck. My list includes: Cullen, Graham, Elliot, Griffin and Reed. If I could get past the popularity issue, I also like Landon, but in my mind, it’s out because it’s so common these days. Names that have been rejected include Jace, Stellan, Gage, Deacon, Atticus, and Slade.
Any suggestions you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Our boy is expected to arrive at the end of January and I’m starting to get a little nervous since we seem to be at a standstill.
Thanks!

Barrett sounds like a very good choice to me. It’s unusual but not unheard-of, and I suspect you could avoid Barry (though he might one day choose it for himself). (I became more fond of the name Barry, too, after having a smart/cute/funny one as a co-worker.)

There’s also Merritt, but with the sibling names I think it sounds too feminine. (I think it would be a great option if later on you have another girl. Beckett, too, would be a great name for a third girl.) (Now I’m getting really off-topic, but Jenson would be charming for a girl, if you liked the idea of combining your names—or you could say she was named for her aunt and her uncle! …Okay, now I will get back to work.)

If you want to move slightly more mainstream but without losing the no-surname-initial-required thing you’ve got going so far, I suggest using surname names that have mainstream nicknames. Bennett, for example: it continues your surname theme, but with the mainstreame nickname Ben. Tatum, Campbell, and Bennett. (I realize this completely ignores your preference for non-nicknameable names, but I still think it might work as a compromise idea.)

On the topic of Ben, in school I had a classmate named Benton. Tatum, Campbell, and Benton.

Similar to Bennett/Ben is Nicholson/Nick. Again, it’s a mainstream nickname with an unexpected full version. Tatum, Campbell, and Nicholson.

Another: Davis. He can use Dave if he wants to (though it was only in thinking of it with Bennett and Nicholson that I realized that was an option), but the name Davis is handsome and unusual and masculine. Tatum, Campbell, and Davis.

Another: Anderson. I don’t think I’d use the nickname Andy, but it would be nice to have it available. Tatum, Campbell, and Anderson.

Or Edison, handsome AND smart, and with the potential nickname Ed if he wants it. Tatum, Campbell, and Edison.

Or Robinson, which gives you Rob. Tatum, Campbell, and Robinson.

Or Jacoby, the unusual surname version of the fully mainstream name Jacob. Tatum, Campbell, and Jacoby.

I wonder if you’d like Aidric? It has a familiar/traditional sound (Aiden/Eric), but it’s uncommon. Tatum, Campbell, and Aidric.

Keaton is familiar but not overly common. Tatum, Campbell, and Keaton.

This would be such a good sibling group for an honor surname. Maybe an old family surname, for something both uncommon and familiar? Or the surname of a favorite author or scientist or actor?

We just recently discussed the name Lennox, so it’s on my mind. Tatum, Campbell, and Lennox.

One of my favorite boy surname names is Lawson. Tatum, Campbell, and Lawson.

Another of my favorites is Lincoln. I love the nickname Linc, and its familiarity as a surname makes it feel more traditional/mainstream. Tatum, Campbell, and Lincoln.

Another is Sullivan, with the nickname Sully. Tatum, Campbell, and Sullivan.

I like Malcolm for you. It’s unusual, it’s all boy, and it ties the sibling names together with a subtle M theme. Tatum, Campbell, and Malcolm. Actually, now that I write it out, I think it might have too many sounds in common with Campbell.

I like Everett even better. It’s similar to Elliot (I think in this sibling group, Elliot might be too feminine), it’s boyish and surnamey, it’s uncommon but familiar. Tatum, Campbell, and Everett.

Name update! Jen writes:

I’m excited to tell you that he arrived on January 24th. At a healthy 9 lbs, 12 oz. and 21 1/2 inches long, he is loving the attention from big sisters Tatum and Campbell. And his name? Lincoln Brett!
Thanks for all your help, we couldn’t be happier with our name choice!

Baby Naming Issue: All the Names We Like are Too Popular

19 Replies

Liz writes:

My husband and I are expecting our first child in April. We didn’t have any girl names picked out, but knew if it was a boy, his name would be Dominic. Of course we found out we’re having a girl! We couldn’t have it the easy way.

Our problem is that it seems all the names we like are too popular right now. We’re talking Isabella (used to be my favorite), Sofia, Ava, Mia… all beautiful names, but they’re everywhere! We’re trying to find a name that’s outside the top 50 girl names. By no means does it have to be totally obscure… just not super-trendy. We know that these lists change, so a name we pick now may be very popular in a couple years – but that’s the risk we take.

We have a 3-syllable Italian last name that ends in “isi” and we like the more Latin or Italian sounding names, although that’s not a must-have. As you can tell from our list above, we also like names that are definitely feminine. No disrespect to the female Dylans and Jordans of the world – it’s just not our style for our baby.

Our possible middle names are all family-related. We’d like to use one of the following:

Marie or Mary
Catherine
Elizabeth or Beth
Jacquelyn
Carol

Can you help us? We would be forever grateful! Maybe we can name her “Swistle.” ;)

I think the name Swistle goes best with Elizabeth: Swistle Elizabeth _____isi. I love it. Or maybe it’s too much L?

There are a few ways to approach the issue of having popular tastes:

One is to say “Hang it!” and go ahead and use your favorite names. The number one name last year was Isabella, but so far there have only been two Isabellas total in all of my kids’ classes combined (I’m including all five kids but thinking especially of the younger three, who were all born after Isabella was in the top 10). I think a bigger problem are the names that get popular in groups: in William’s class last year there was a Kyle, a Kyler, and a Kylie. Or a class might have an Amelia, an Emilia, an Emma, and a Mia, which is more noticeable than a single Sophia.

A second approach, which could tie in to the first approach, is to choose a popular name, but choose one with a steadier popularity curve: something that never gets too UNpopular, instead of something that went from almost unheard-of to Top 10 in less than a decade: Elizabeth instead of Isabella, Anna instead of Ava. (And all of the names on your list are less risky than a total newcomer such as a Cadence or a Madison.)

A third approach is to think, “Having a less common name is worth selecting a name I like less.” In that case I’d go to the charts, pull up the list of the Top 1000 for 2010, start at #50, and work my way down while jotting down possibilities. As you’ve already noticed, some of those names might be on their way up (you can search each name separately to make sure it’s not going up like, for example, #364 in 2008, #204 in 2009, #52 in 2010), but it’s different odds choosing a maybe-it-won’t instead of an it-already-has.

A fourth approach, which could tie in to the third approach, is to find names that are similar to the popular ones: for example, Cleo instead of Chloe. This is risky: it’s what leads to a Kyle and a Kyler and a Kylie, or to an Eleanor and an Ella and an Elizabeth all going by Ellie. But it can also pay off beautifully: maybe everyone is tired of Isabella, but Isadora and Annabel would strike them as fresh and different–having some of the elements that make everyone like Isabella, but not in a way that would make them the next big thing.

Because it sounds like your preference is to avoid the popular names, I’ll lean toward the fourth way: finding names that are similar to the names you like, but less popular. Here’s how I’d do your list (with an extra-thorough perusal of The Baby Name Wizard‘s section of Italian names), but “names that seem similar” is a very subjective category so this is just to give you the idea:

Instead of Isabella: Isadora, Annabel, Willa, Gabriella, Mirella, Marilena, Raffaella, Arabella, Cordelia, Elisabetta.

Instead of Sofia: Fiona, Phoebe, Bianca, Josefina, Josephine, Claudia, Lucia, Annika, Philomena.

Instead of Ava: Eva, Eve, Ada, Ivy, Elsa, Geneva.

Instead of Mia: Lia, Celia, Mila, Mira, Gia, Ria, Nina.

You probably want to save Dominic in case of a future boy, but Veronica or Danica or Annika might have a similar and appealing sound for a girl.

Name update! Liz writes:

Our beautiful daughter Stella Elizabeth was born on April 25, 2012. My husband actually suggested the name Stella, and I loved it from the start! It has the “ella” ending that I love, without being as popular as Isabella and the like. You and your readers did offer some great suggestions – particularly Sonia and Cecilia – so if we have another daughter, we may use one of those! Stella just seemed like the perfect, spunky name for our little girl. As you can see from the picture I attached – she has quite the attitude!

Thanks for your help!

Baby Girl M_____, Sister to Samuel John

18 Replies

Debbie writes:

I’ve only recently found your site and I’m so impressed with the thoughtfulness and creativity of the names you suggest. Please help!

Our baby girl is due in three weeks and my husband and I are stuck in a naming rut. It’s not that we disagree, but we are not completely in love with our list and nothing new seems to be jumping out at us. We like classic names that are preferably not extremely common or very unusual.

Our 2 year old son is named Samuel John, which I suppose is not uncommon. However, naming Samuel was easy as my husband had always had this name in the back of his mind (after his grandfather – another boy would be called Henry), but we are struggling to think of girl names that are both pretty and say ‘take me seriously’.

Our surname is relatively uncommon where we live, starts with M and has two syllables, like Halston and with possibly similar pronunciation issues (actually pronounced like ‘Hol’, but usually guessed incorrectly as ‘Hal’). We’d rather not use a name or nickname that rhymes with either pronunciation (eg: Holly or Callie). Our first names are Deborah and Michael.

Names that have been on the list:

Emilia (familiar sound yet we don’t know anyone with this name)

Eleanor (nn Ellie, which has a family connection)

Natalie/Natasha (for its Christmas DD connection, but don’t like nn Nat)

Evelyn (again Christmas with Eve or Evie as nn)

Jemima (not sure this works with our M surname)

Ashley (husband likes, nn Ash, I’m not completely sold on it)

Adeline (love this, nn Ada, but vetoed by husband)

Caitlin (nn Cate, too common?)

Names we like but have been used by close family/friends:

Amelia

Charlotte

Chloe

Eliza

Helena

Isabelle

Madeleine

Rachel

Mackenzie (this one is left of field given the rest of our list, but husband likes it. Has been used by a couple of friends).

Names considered and rejected:

F names like Freya, Frances, Felicity

Anything that sounds like Sam, such as Samara, Camilla, etc

As mentioned, names that sound like they rhyme with our surname.

At this stage I think we’d use Emilia as either a middle name or a first name (although I’m not sure about nicknames Emmy, Em or Milly with our surname). If we use it as first, for middle we’d probably try to find a short name in keeping with Samuel’s, perhaps something like Claire, Kate, Leah or Beth.

Samuel was early and this naming problem is starting to keep me awake at night, just when I need my sleep!

Thanks so much

Looking at your lists, what stands out to me is that you mostly like common names—but you’re trying to avoid them, and this could be what’s making you feel stuck. I’ll try to gear my suggestions toward less-common options, but also it’s fine to choose a very common name if you LIKE very common names. Common isn’t what it used to be: even the top ten is not necessarily the kiss of death.

Emilia is not very common, but it feels significantly more common than it is because of all the Amelias and Emmas and Mias. And I agree with you that the nicknames are not ideal with your surname: so much M and L. I also agree with you about Jemima: that’s a lot of M with your surname.

The name Emeline might just switch us from one frying pan to another, but I’m mentioning it anyway because of Madeleine on your can’t-use list.

Caitlin and Ashley are finally on the way down after years of high popularity: their decades of commonness and huge number of spelling variations make them feel even more common than they were, and I think I would avoid them at this point–especially since they don’t meet your classic/traditional preferences.

Instead of Ashley, I wonder if you’d like Audrey or Aubrey?

One of my favorite “pretty but serious” girl names is Genevieve. It has the Eve you like from Evelyn, and it’s a nice old name. It might be a little rhymey with your surname, though.

Another of my favorites is Eloise, and it reminds me of Eliza and Helena and Evelyn and Eleanor from your list. As with Genevieve, the “ee” sound might be too rhymey with your surname.

I think Evelyn from your list is a very good option: it was leaping up the ranks for awhile there, but now it’s had two years in a row at #39 so it might not get to the top ten.

Eleanor too seems like a very good choice. It has the popular Ellie nickname, and also has Nora if that suits her better.

I’d thought almost for sure that Natalie was going to make it to the top ten, but the last few years it’s been hovering just outside it at 17, 13, 16, 14. I love Christmas names (more possibilities here), and think this is a great name option for you. The main (and possibly deal-breaking) downside is that I think Samuel’s nickname may make the nickname Nat even more tempting to use. “Sam and Nat” is so catchy and natural.

Sasha would give you some of the sound of Natasha without the Nat issue.

Would you like the name Noelle instead? I’m not sure if that’s too much L with the surname (and with Samuel), or if it’s just the right amount to tie it nicely together. Sam and Noelle, so sweet.

Caroline is a sweet classic choice, and has “carol” to remind us of Christmas. Samuel and Caroline; Sam and…and there’s the problem. I’ve heard of Carolines called Caro and Carrie, but it’s not as easy a nickname as Sam.

Stella is sometimes used as a Christmas baby name because it means star. I think it’s a perfect “pretty but serious” name. Again I’m not sure if the L is good with the surname or not. Sam and Stella is wonderful, as long as it wouldn’t make you feel locked into using an S name for any future children. I love Stella Joy: Samuel John and Stella Joy.

Holly is out for the way it rhymes with your surname, but Ivy is great. Ivy Emilia M____; Sam and Ivy.

I see Chloe on your can’t-use list, and I wonder if you’d like Cleo? It just reverses the vowel sounds, and yet it’s far, far less common. I love the sound of Sam and Cleo.

Another of my favorite pretty-but-serious names is Josephine. Maybe Josephine Claire, or Josephine Cate, or Josephine Noelle, or Josephine Eve. Sam and Jo.

Another is Rose: it’s become common as a middle name, but is rare and fresh as a first name. Rose Emilia; Sam and Rose.

Another is Clara. Sam and Clara.

Name update! Debbie writes:

I was so excited to read your thoughts on our list. It really helped narrow our focus. We still had a few options in mind, but when she arrived on Christmas day we knew she was Evelyn Clare. And it turns out that one of her great great grandmothers was named Eva, so there’s a family connection there too! Thanks so much for your help!