Category Archives: name update

Baby Girl Liberty

Cammie writes:

Our first – a girl- is due in September. Our last name is Liberty, just like the Statue and the Bell. While I love our last name, it’s actually making things a bit difficult in the baby-naming department. We’ve decided that all “L” names (I love Lily and Lucy and Louisa) are out as we think they’ll sound too cartoonish. Do you agree?

The other issue we’re having is that my husband comes from a very large, very close family (his father is one of twelve) and many names are “taken” already. A repeat wouldn’t be the biggest deal in the world, but we’d like to avoid it if possible.

I’ve loved the name Nora for about two years and knew that if I ever had a daughter, she would be Nora. Of course, now that I am pregnant and we are having a girl, my husband has revealed that he doesn’t “love” Nora. His issue with it is that we will inevitably shorten it (we tend to do that with everyone!) and then she’ll be “Nor,” which neither of us likes. He loves Meredith. I like it A LOT, but can’t quite commit to it yet, though I love “Mere” as a shortened version.

We’ve pretty much decided that the middle name will be “James” which is his father’s name and my grandfather’s name. I really like a masculine middle name with a feminine first.

Other names we like:

Madeline
Allison
Annie
Margaret – Meg or Maggie
Abby

If we were having a son, he would have been Samuel (Sam) or Charles (Charlie.)

We’re staying away from very popular names if possible. I am a female “Cameron” (I’ve been called “Cammie” most of my life) and loved being a little different.

Thank you so much for considering our request for your expert assistance! We are so looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

I ruled out several names I liked because I didn’t want alliteration with my surname. BUT: I have a rather harsh surname full of strong consonant sounds. Liberty is such a beautiful surname, I think I’d have the opposite feeling: I think I’d want to find an alliterative name to highlight it.

Alliteration can sound cartoony, but it can also sound distinctive and memorable. I’d avoid names that also matched the end sound, such as Lucy Liberty and Lily Liberty, but I think Louisa Liberty works great. I notice as I’m going through a list of other possibilities that a 2/3-syllable combination can sound a little bit like a comic book character: Laura Liberty, for example.

I love the name Meredith, and feel inclined to push you to use it. If you have two girls, I think Louisa and Meredith make wonderful sister names.

I would steer you away from Madeline/Madelyn and Abby if you’re avoiding popular names.

If you like everything about Nora except that you think you’d shorten it to Nor, I wonder if you’d prefer Cora or Clara or Cara or Flora or Rory. Because Rory is a unisex name, I wouldn’t pair it with James—but I like how the name Rory might parallel your experience with the unisex name Cameron.

 

 

Name update! Cammie writes:

Hello, Swistle and readers! We are so happy to announce that we welcomed our baby girl on Friday, September 27th. We were still deciding between Nora and Meredith until the last minute, but when we saw her face, we both knew that Meredith was the one. And so she is Meredith James Liberty and a complete joy for both of us.

Thank you so much for your advice and for all the reader comments! It gave us great confidence in our choice.

Baby Boy Milligan, Brother to Teresa and Nora

T. writes:

We are having a little boy in September. I’ve loved the name Finn for as long as I can remember, and we’re pretty set on using that. The only thing I’m slightly concerned about is that I’ve been told that for a odd-numbered-syllable last name, you should use an even-numbered first name. So, our last name is Milligan, it would sound best with a two syllable first name. What is your opinion on that? Other first names we’re considering are Callum, Conor, and Brendan.

Secondly, we are having a hard time deciding on a middle name. I want to use my maiden name for his middle, so he would be Finn Ricker Milligan. My husband wants his middle name to be Cougar. Part of me thinks Finn Cougar Milligan sounds pretty cool, but a larger part thinks it is a little too weird.

What do you think? Is Cougar cute and unique or just dumb and weird?

If it matters we already have two girls, Teresa Brigid and Nora Merian.

Thank you!

 

There are no naming rules. I am going to repeat this, because it comes up a lot: There are NO NAMING RULES. There is no such thing as a real rule that says anything about the number of syllables a first name and last name should have. Different names with the same number of syllables sound completely different depending on the particular names—and those completely different sounds will seem great to some people and not-great to others. There is no rule that if your surname has an odd number of syllables, the first name has to have an even number. Pick what sounds good to you.

I would be more concerned with the rhyminess of Finn Milligan and Brendan Milligan. But that too is subjective: some people love when a sound repeats, and some people don’t, and for most people it depends on the particular name. Callum Milligan seems too heavy on L’s and M’s to me, but to someone else that exact same thing will make the name sound like it holds together beautifully.

One of my few almost-regrets in naming is that I didn’t go a little more daring with the kids’ middle names. The reason it’s an almost-regret rather than a regret is that in the long run, I prefer the significance of the names we DID use—but oh, it would have been such a great opportunity to use names like Dutch and Marigold and Fern! Well, but there it is: instead of Dutch, we used my grandfather’s name; instead of Fern, we used a name Paul couldn’t bear not to use.

I do think Cougar makes a very cool middle name—though its current popular usage as a term for an older woman on the prowl somewhat ruins it for me, to the point where it no longer passes the “Is this a name I’d want for myself?” test. Also, I think cool middle names work best with less-cool first names: Finn and Milligan are already so cool, the complete name ends up feeling like it’s trying very hard for coolness. In this particular case, the similarity in sound and rhythm of Finn Cougar Milligan to John Cougar Mellancamp is an additional strike against the idea.

And in any case, I think the significance of the use of your maiden name greatly trumps any coolness factor. The child will have your husband’s family surname, and it seems completely reasonable and appealing for him to also have your family surname. Ricker is quite a cool-sounding name too—and yet, because it’s your maiden name, it doesn’t come across as trying to be cool on purpose.

So my vote would be for Finn Ricker Milligan: there’s no such thing as a rule about syllables; I think the slight rhyminess of Finn/-igan pales in comparison with parental agreement and a long-term love of a name; and I think your family surname is better than Cougar in several ways.

 

 

Name update! T. writes:

I just wanted to send in my name update! I asked the question about using Cougar as a middle name. Thanks to you and your readers for all the input. My husband was a bit bummed to see how overwhelmingly negative the opinion was towards using Cougar, and agreed that it was best to use something else. We were excited to welcome Finn Ricker Milligan on September 13th. As most of my siblings seem to use names from my mother’s side of the family for honor names, my dad was quite chuffed to have his last name in there as the middle. Thanks again for answering my question!

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Baby Name to Discuss: Maelynn

Megan writes:

We’ve got a baby girl name question for you. I’m due this fall. We have one older child, a boy (Jackson). In that pregnancy, our top girl name was Katelyn. Loved it and 100% would have used it if he had been a girl.

Now, it’s time to pick a girl name. We still like Katelyn. But… we found another name that we LOVE. It’s a French name – Maelynn. We love the way it sounds (and that it’s unique), but here are our issues/questions that we’re ruminating on:

1. It always shows up as a misspelling (in a Word document, an email, etc.). Will that be annoying for the rest of her life?

2. It looks made up. It’s a real French name, spelled Maelynn. Sometimes we think Maelyn LOOKS less made up – but we really don’t like the idea of made-up names, and to pick a made-up version of a name so it doesn’t look made-up is just crazy! The meager results of internet searches have demonstrated that A LOT of people think Maelynn is made-up… and that the parents just smushed Mae and Lynn together. Side note: we’ve also read that some people think it’s a made-up American spelling of a Chinese name.

3. Related to the point above, if we use it, we think it would be wise to spread the word that it’s a lovely French name, not a made-up name. I’m thinking something along the lines of sending the birth announcement with pronunciation and meaning underneath the name (I can picture it… hopefully it’s coming across in an email). It gets the information out there without having to tell people explicitly. And maybe it can be pulled off like a cute birth announcement and not “oh-my-word, we’ve been worrying about this for 5 months!”?

4. Is it too unique? Will she have too hard of a time with it as she grows up? I keep saying it’s a “real French name,” but in truth it’s a unique name, even in France.

A few final thoughts – both Maelynn and Katelyn have the same “sound” to them, and they both go well with Jackson and with our last name. No issues there to pick between them. We’ll use the same middle name for either – my maiden name – and because they’re both the same sound, that also doesn’t help us pick between them.

So – what’s your advice on the name Maelynn?

My fingers are crossed you pick this question to answer. There is almost NOTHING online about Maelynn. It would be great to get some honest advice! In return for advice, I’ll send you baby girl’s name when the final decision is made and she makes her debut. :)

 

Let me deal first with the question about whether you should take into account that the name shows up as a misspelling in computer programs: No.

Here’s a screen shot of a section of the Social Security Administration document I use to find out how many times a name is used each year:

Screen shot 2013-06-12 at 2.56.59 PM

Katelyn is in the same red-underlined boat, as are Kaitlyn and Mya and Jordyn and Brooklynn and Lyla. It is very common for spell-checkers not to recognize proper nouns. It is also very common for spell-checking programs to have an “Add to dictionary” function, so that you can stop seeing the red underline on a particular word. While I know that different people have different priorities, and so you would find me completely willing to work with a “Must show up in spell-checking dictionary” preference if you had one, I’d say that if you find you have a choice whether to care about this or not, I’d strongly urge you to come down on the “not” side. I would go so far as to say that to me it’s a complete non-issue.

I vote no on the birth-announcement name explanation idea. Well, or I could see it being done in the style of the name bookmarks/magnets sold at greeting card stores (big fancy script first name, with meaning in quotes underneath), as part of the decoration. Like this:

Maelynn

But I don’t think that does anything at all to explain that it’s a real French name and not made-up (Maelynn / “Real French name, not made up”), and I don’t think I’d try to use the birth announcement to explain the pronunciation or origin. Here’s how I’d gradually do that instead, at every single opportunity:

You: “Her name is Maelynn.”
Person: *expression or exclamation of some sort*
You, demurely: “It’s French.”
Person: *adjusting perception of name accordingly*

 

Here is why you’re running into issues with people thinking it’s an American spelling of a Chinese name, or people thinking it’s Mae + Lynn: because it IS. It is both those things, as well as being a French name (where it ALSO might be Mae + Lynn) and probably a name in other countries as well. It’s the same with Katelyn, which is both an American respelling/repronunciation of an Irish name AND Kate + Lynn. Sound-pieces such as Mae/May and Lyn/Lynn/Lin are used in many parts of the world to form many sorts of names. This might annoy you if you want people to think of it ONLY as a French name—but in its favor, it means the name is not going to be as unusual or startling as you fear. May and Lynn are both perfectly familiar names in the United States, and I don’t think anyone is going to blink at seeing them combined. Similar names such as Kaelyn and Braelyn and Jaelyn make it feel even more familiar.

But I suspect what you’d like to do is keep people from associating the name with names like Kaelyn and Jaelyn. This is where Pop Psych 101 kicks in: you won’t be able to control what other people think of the name. You might be able to nudge/correct some of them with frequent demure repetitions of “It’s French,” but if they think you chose the name because those sounds happen to be in style right now, rather than because you have an affinity for highly unusual French names, you won’t be able to stop them. Furthermore, -lynn is not a familiar French ending (as -elle and -ette and -ine are), so it won’t SOUND French to people in the United States even if it IS French and even if you TELL them it’s French. And even if you find a way to explain the whole thing in the birth announcement, there are still all the teachers and classmates and classmates’ parents and school/doctor office staff and on and on.

So the decision comes down to this: Is what other people might think of the name important enough to you that you’d rather give up the name? That’s a question that sounds like I’m implying the right answer would be “No,” but that’s not the case: I personally care quite a bit what other people think of my children’s names, and about what impressions those names give. There were some names on my list where “People will think ____” was enough to cross the name off my list. There were other names I liked so much I thought “So what?” Or in this case, you might think, “Well, and they’re partly right. It’s just, that’s not where we got the name or how we think of it.”

I think it might be helpful to consider what it is you mean by “made-up name”—and what it is you don’t like about names you consider made-up. All names are made up at some time or another, so is it that you want a name with a long history? Is it that you think of people who invent new names as being a certain sort of person, and you don’t want to be perceived as that sort of person? Is it that you only like the name Maelynn if it contains the concept of Being French, but not if it’s May + Lynn? Is there anything that worries you about Maelynn that isn’t the same worry with Katelyn? Thinking through these issues can help you decide if other people’s impressions are important enough to rule out the name. Since Maelynn is a very uncommon name in both the United States and France, I think it will be more common for people to hear it as “Mae + Lynn” than as “French name.” (And even in France, perhaps they hear it as “Mae + Lynn.”)

I don’t think it’s too unusual to use. I do think it’s a name she will have to spell every single time. And sometimes people will say MAY-lin (like Palin) and sometimes they will say may-LYNN, and sometimes they will emphasize both syllables the same, so it’s good to think through ahead of time if this is the sort of thing that will drive you crazy. And I think it might sometimes be mistaken for Madelyn. But as a “Kristen, that’s K-r-i-s-t-E-n, no, not Kristine or Kiersten or Kirsten,” that doesn’t seem like a deal-breaker to me as long as you accept that it comes as part of the name parcel.

Here’s how people were spelling the name in the United States in 2012, to give you an idea of the spellings you’re likely to encounter:

Maylin 187
Maelyn 93
Maelynn 82
Maylen 76
Malin 65
Maylynn 28
Maylyn 17
Maelin 12
Malyn 9
Malynn 9
Maylinn 6
Mayelin 5

 

If you would like my personal opinion, I prefer the name Maelynn to the name Katelyn, and I prefer the spelling Maelynn to the spelling Maelyn. It doesn’t sound either made-up or French to me; I’d hear it a combination name, like Maryella or Avamarie or Lilyanna, or possibly as a surname name (Malin); it also makes me think of names like Marin. Let’s have a poll to see what everyone else thinks!

[yop_poll id=”16″]

 

 

 

Name update! Megan writes:

I loved that you posted my question and LOVED reading your responses and the reader votes. We read every comment – they were so spot on. Awesome advice. Thank you so much to you and your readers!

In the end, we decided we love Maelynn, and you and your readers were right to say STOP justifying (and saying it’s French – apparently it’s not as “securely” French as we thought!). Jackson and Maelynn. Jack and Mae. So great!

But… SURPRISE! It’s a boy! The ultrasound missed an important boy part… but it was discovered at a later ultrasound. That would have been VERY surprising at delivery! “It’s a… what?”

So the update on the Maelynn vs. Katelyn debate is… Dominic! Jackson and Dominic will be brothers, and maybe one day a little Maelynn will join them.

Or, more likely, maybe one day there will be another Swistle advice post: Maelynn vs. ________ (some other name we find we love).

Thank you so much for your help!

When You Have Many Favorite Baby Name Styles, How Do You CHOOSE?

Erin writes:

I’m hoping you could help me with a conundrum I’m having, and it may be that others are experiencing the same thing. My husband and I have been trying to have a baby for two years now – during that time I found your site and have been an avid reader ever since. I was already a name nerd, and having two years to think about names has resulted in a huge name list! I’m not sure how we will end up building our family, or if we’ll end up living child-free, but either way I want to be prepared. I’m very much a planner, and having a general idea of which names we’d like to use would help me feel more at peace.

The problem is we like so many names in different categories! I’ve read your advice on naming your first child, and I’m aware of names that are outliers to our style. But even yet, I still feel like I could name a gaggle of children using a couple different styles.

We like word names, ancient/mythological names, and quirky Bible names. For example, here is a (very) paired down list of some of our favorites.

Boys:
Abel
Atlas
Canaan
Cord/Chord
Dash
Naphtali
Noble

Girls:
Azalea
Daphne
Evening
Geneva
Honor
Sunday
Thisbe

We also like vintage names.
Boys:
Calvin
Jack
Walter
Wesley

Girls:
Alice
Agatha
Daphne
Pearl
Phoebe
Vivienne
Sally
(it’s obviously easier to name girls than boys!)

Can any of these mix and match? For example, I think Daphne could work equally well with Atlas as it could with Calvin. But could Atlas and Calvin be brothers? I don’t think so, but my husband disagrees. He thinks I’m over-thinking it. Could you have Honor and Phoebe as sisters?!

How on earth does a name aficionado pick their favorites? If you have any help, I would appreciate it so much. I know I’ll use the advice offered should I ever get a chance to use these names, and I hope to give an update if that day comes. Thank you in advance for all you do!!

 

Oh, I know, it’s a terrible problem! I remember going through name books during my first pregnancy and wondering how we were even going to narrow it down.

For me, probably the most helpful tool was imagining introducing the child. I loved the idea of the name Dutch for a boy, for example, but I felt very differently about it if I imagined calling my parents to say, “He’s here! His name is Dutch!,” or making his first appointment with the pediatrician, or registering him for first grade. It’s not that I think we should let such pressures influence us unduly (I think my parents and the pediatrician and the school system would have been fine no matter what we chose), but some of us have the temperament to proudly announce an unusual name and would love responding to the surprised feedback—and others of us don’t, and wouldn’t.

I also found it very helpful to imagine sitting around our dinner table (I see I’m picturing my own childhood family dinner table circa 1982, except I’m the mother) and talking to my actual elementary-school-aged children. Does it feel right to me to picture a little boy named Dutch and a little girl named Marigold? Or does it feel more natural to imagine an Ian and a Clarissa? A William and a Margaret? I love all three sets, but which one feels like My Actual Family? Which one seems right for the report cards and the insurance forms and the summer camp registration? The answer is going to be different for each person.

If two or more styles feel equally right, here are a few ideas:

1. The Combination Name. This is a good method if you have several styles you love, but you’d really prefer to pick one style for all the kids’ names. It does require RANKING the sets, which might not work. But let’s say you have three styles you love: Word, Ancient/Mythological, and Quirky Biblical. And let’s say that when you do the introduction-and-dinner-table tests (or whatever tests are most helpful to you), you find that although any of the three styles work, the Quirky Biblical are the ones you feel are most right for your family—but you’re sad about losing the others. In that case, I’d recommend a first name and two middle names, and I’d set the pattern with the first child: Quirky Biblical first name, then one of the other two styles for each of the two middle names. The sibling names can all coordinate (Biblical Mythical Word Surname, or Biblical Word Mythical Surname), but with different styles in each name position. Or you can have just one middle name, and have it be from the category “We’re Not Going to Use It as a First Name, But We Can’t Bear to Give It Up Entirely.”

2. Double Up. Some names cover more than one category. Pearl, for example, is a vintage name and a word name. Abel/Able is a biblical name and a virtue name. Phoebe is vintage, nature, and biblical. Finding names that satisfy more than one style can be a good way to cram extra name styles into a name.

3. The Happy Assortment. This is a good method if you have several styles you love, and you don’t mind if sibling names go together or not. I think this works best for families of three or more children: Calvin and Atlas seems more like a jarring pair than a happy assortment. The trick is to choose one name from each category, all equally non-coordinated, rather than choosing two names from one category and one name from a totally different category. I also think it works best if the names are approximately the same unusualness and mood: I think Evening and Thisbe is a less startling combination than Evening and Alice or Evening and Sally. And it helps to have a story: if we encounter a family with a Caden, a Brody, and a Harold, it’s not that we think that’s WRONG, it just gives us a natural desire to find out what HAPPENED there. As soon as the mother says, “My grandfather died during my third pregnancy,” our minds settle right down with that. Having a story for each child’s name (“John Calvin is our favorite theologian; I did my thesis on the Titans; and I found the name Evening in a short story and was instantly smitten with it”) BECOMES the unifying feature.

4. Take It Child by Child. I’m strongly in favor of choosing a style before beginning, but did I do that myself? Not really. What Paul and I did was wait until we knew our first child was a boy, and then we chose our favorite boy name and used it. When we were expecting our second boy, we made a second list (excluding names that didn’t work with the first child’s name), and we chose our favorite name from that. And so on. Our naming style changed over the years, too, in ways we couldn’t have anticipated: there were names I would have thought I’d be sad not to use, but by the time we had a chance to use them, I no longer wanted to. As long as you’re keeping the runners-up in mind (“Wait, if we use ____ for a boy, that would mean we wouldn’t want to use ____ if we later had a girl”), I think this is a method that can help you gradually choose the right set of names. I think it’s both fun and practical to think ahead/big-picture, but sometimes it works better to narrow the focus from “the future sibling group of unknown size and sexes” to “the one baby currently at bat.”

5. Naming Other Things. Sometimes the actual primary issue is that we have way more naming interest than we have children to name; if that’s the situation, you’re in good company here. In that case, I recommend finding another outlet for the spare names: pets, dolls, computer networks, book characters, accounts, passwords, other people’s naming questions. It’s nowhere near as satisfying as naming our own actual children, and yet it can soak up some of the extra: when I felt particularly sad about a baby name we couldn’t use, I made it my password and enjoyed typing it in every day for awhile.

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More advice, please! Did/do you love many styles of names? How did/do/will you handle it?

 

 

 

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

I emailed you nearly 4 years ago about how to choose a name style when one loves so many names. Featuring my question really did help. It settled the fact that we liked mostly noun and mythological names, and favored underused names. It took us a while, but we finally had our little miracle baby! When we found out we were having a girl, I was in love with Daphne, and my husband wanted Aurora. We were at a standstill. Then one evening my parents were rattling off a list of baby names, and this had been going on for quite some time. Our attention had started to wander but we were attempting to remain polite when my mom suggested a name that made both of us stop in our tracks. My husband even said, “Wait, go back!” My parents had visited Évora, Portugal, the year before, and suggested the name Evora: pronounced EH-vor-uh with the emphasis on the first syllable, and the same ‘e’ and ‘o’ sounds as the name Emory. We immediately loved it! We opted out of using the accent above the E, unless we really feel the need to clarify the pronunciation. We have a very simple last name so we decided she could handle a more unusual first name. Our family loves to travel, so we love the tie the name has to Portugal; I love the fact that the Romans named the city, so it is a very ancient name and ancient town with a beautiful Roman temple ruin; and we especially love that her grandparents helped in the naming process. (They were so thrilled we liked the name and immediately started arguing about who first suggested the name! *My mom clearly did, but we haven’t had the heart to break this news to my dad*).

For her middle name we chose to honor my husband’s great aunt Ester, who was more like a grandma to him. Being Swedish, her name was spelled the Scandinavian way, and she was quite vocal about her opinion that the ‘h’ in Esther is silent and therefore, quite unnecessary. She was very spunky and a wonderful woman.

We are proud to introduce our little Evora Ester Green, born November 29, 2016.

Thank you for featuring my question and to you and your readers for all the help and wonderful suggestions! I am so thrilled I finally got to give an update!

Erin & Justin

Baby Girl Phillips, Sister to Charlie Elizabeth

Danie writes:

My husband, Dan, and I are currently expecting our second little one… A girl, due early in July! We have been struggling to agree upon a name that we both love! We currently have a 13 month old daughter, whom we named Charlie Elizabeth (Phillips). As I have been called Danie (Danielle) most of my life, I tend to lean towards boy names for girls. My husband is more hesitant about this. That said, I lean towards Ryan for this little one, he is pushing for Elise. I want the name to go well with Charlie, and am not sure that very feminine names do. If we ever had a boy, he would likely be Brecht, a family name on Dan’s side. If you have any ideas, we would love to hear them! Thank you!

 

I’m on your side: for sisters, I wouldn’t pair an exclusively feminine name with a name more likely to be used for boys. Since he likes Elise, I suggest Elliott. Then I’d choose a traditional and exclusively-feminine middle name. Katherine would be nice: Charlie Elizabeth and Elliott Katherine.

Or perhaps Elise could be the middle name:

Charlie Elizabeth and Brady Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Dylan Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Hayden Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Jamie Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Jordan Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Logan Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Parker Elise
Charlie Elizabeth and Ryan Elise

But if further compromise is needed, I suggest the category of feminine names with boyish nicknames: Samantha/Sam, for example, would give you Charlie and Sam.

Or, the category of boyish names with feminine nicknames: Ellis, for example, would give your husband Ellie (as would Elliott), or Hollis would give him Holly.

 

 

Name update! Danie writes:

My husband and I are happy to announce that Charlie Elizabeth now has a baby sister…. Ryan Elise! We are thrilled!

I loved all your advise and additional suggestions… They will be kept in mind for the future! Thank you!

Baby Girl Pa-Donny, Sister to Adrienne, Valerie, and Joshua

Wendy writes:

I’m hoping you can please help tilt our value scales one way or the other and provide some late trimester peace! Our dilemma is whether to pick the name I like best, with a little funny meaning, or his favorite, a more common choice with a really nice meaning.

We’re due this Memorial Day, about 4 weeks, with our 3rd girl and last child. We have an Adrienne Elizabeth (6), Valerie Grace (4), and Joshua Jeremiah (2). I like classic names, but as a teacher also wanted less common names, so the girls’ names are less common with classic middle names. (Josh was and is the right choice for this kid, regardless of popularity, his middle is a family name). Our last name is pronounced Pa-Donny, which to me, rules out most girl names ending in a long e to avoid rhyming. Their names follow a 3-4-3 or 3-1-3 syllable pattern. We like Rose for a middle name. It’s 1 syllable, is classic (goes with Elizabeth and Grace) and I just like it.

We finally landed more or less on Meredith a few months ago. I like it a LOT, it tops everything else, but I don’t quite LOVE it yet. It’s uncommon but not out there, 3 syllables and I think, goes well style wise with Adrienne (richly blessed) and Valerie (strong and gracious). We got a 3D picture of her from our ultrasound and that’s what I think when I look at her. BUT the name means “Sea Lord” or maybe “Great Leader or Lord.” Plus, it was originally a boy’s name, which I know most people don’t know, and which doesn’t bother me too much. But we met a lot of Adrian boys after choosing Adrienne for a girl, so it’s a teeny tiny factor. I’ve been sooo close to settling on it, but the meaning and background nag at me just a little.

Recently my husband suggested and now loves Lydia. It’s 3 syllables, a little uncommon and doesn’t rhyme with our last name. Better, it means “noble, beloved, beauty” and sometimes “seller of purple cloth” depending on the source. A Lydia Rose could have purple roses associated with her name, which I think is pretty, but also with a strong character reference.

I’d love to know what you recommend in this type of dilemma. And your thoughts on our choices as they fit with her sibling’s names?

Meredith Rose Padonny (nn Em, M, Mere) Meaning: Great leader, rose
Lydia Rose Padonny (nn Lyddie or Liddie) Meaning: Noble, beautiful rose

Adrienne, Valerie, Josh and Meredith
Adrienne, Valerie, Josh and Lydia

We’re open to other name suggestions that fit our patterns as well. We sometimes use A and V, and J as nicknames, so we avoid names beginning with A, V or J.

Thanks! I really appreciate your help if you get to our letter!

 

Although I did know Meredith used to be a boy name, I know it the same way I know Vivian and Ashley used to be boy names and that pink used to be a boy color: i.e., it doesn’t matter to me, now that they’re used for girls. The terms “boy name” and “girl name” and “boy color” and “girl color” refer only to usage, not to something inherent or unchangeable about the name or color.

As for the meaning, it depends on how you feel about name meanings. Do you, for lack of a better phrase, “believe in them”? I am pretty far on the “no” end of the spectrum: too many baby name books make up meanings, or come up with them based on very loose connections to words or to other names. Many name meanings come from characters in Bible stories—but what did did the name mean before that story was written? And even when a name has what I’d consider a “genuine” meaning, I still don’t think that means anything about the name or the person bearing the name. Cameron means “crooked nose”; Rachel means “ewe”—but what does the word “means” mean in this context? Most names are series of sounds we’ve decided make up a name; they may have connections to words or stories, but the name’s real meaning is “a name.”

Even way over at this end of the spectrum, I would pause if a name had a really terrible meaning. But Meredith, according to The Oxford Dictionary of First Names, is from the Old Welsh name Meredudd, which is “from an unexplained first element + iudd ‘lord’.” So it means “[something unknown] lord.” That doesn’t qualify as terrible. In fact, to me this moves it securely into the “doesn’t really have a meaning, it’s just a series of sounds we use as a name” category.

According the The Oxford Dictionary of First Names, Lydia means “woman from Lydia, an area of Asia Minor.” The purple connection comes from the woman from Lydia in the Bible, who worked for a company that sold purple dye and/or cloth. Her name was not Lydia; she’s just called Lydia in the Bible story because she lived there. I don’t know why her actual first name isn’t used—maybe by the time the story was written down no one remembered, or maybe it wasn’t considered polite back then, or maybe it was for her own privacy and protection (a single woman letting a bunch of men sleep over would not necessarily have benefited by having that published), or maybe at the time just saying “a woman who sold purple dye in Lydia” would have immediately communicated exactly which woman they meant—but the upshot is that Lydia is a place name which, because of its use in a story, has also come to be associated with purple dye and/or cloth.

If name meanings are important to you, if you believe they’re significant, if you enjoy them, if you often use them and refer to them and buy framed plaques for your children’s rooms that list their names with their meanings, then the meaning DOES matter and you should go with a name that has a meaning you like. The meaning becomes an important element of how you feel about the name—just as important as the style and the popularity.

If, on the other hand, meaning is just one of many details you find interesting but not among your most important preferences, then I’d ignore the meanings and choose based on which name you prefer. Or perhaps I’d let the meaning be one of the many, many smaller details that add up to helping you choose, just as you might lightly consider the number of letters in the name, or the number of letters or syllables shared with the sibling names, or a celebrity with the same name, or other fun things like that.

Stepping away from the meanings and looking directly at the particular names involved, I think both are great. Both go beautifully in the sibling group and meet your other preferences. With meaning removed, the issue becomes whether to choose the name you prefer or the name your husband prefers, which is a much different issue and may require choosing a different name entirely, or going with a lovely compromise such as Lydia Meredith.

 

 

Name update! Wendy writes:

Thanks again for posting my letter a few weeks ago. We loved reading the comments and had plenty of time to consider our baby girl’s name, as she came 12 days late. I had extra non-stress tests and ultrasounds to make sure she was staying healthy. (My midwives were pushing a “just because” induction – what is it with rushing babies out these days?) It was during one of those appointments that my husband and I had some quiet moments to ourselves and landed peacefully on Meredith Rose Padonny. We love it. And it fits her. And it fits with her siblings names as well. They’ve been calling her Mere Bear, Mere and Meri.

And for extra confirmation . . . we were at Target when I (finally) felt the first contraction and our check out girl’s name was Rose. I complimented her on it and she said that she hated it as a kid but LOVES it now. Then this week my neighbor/friend told me that in junior high she’d written “Adrienne Meredith” on a piece of paper and kept it in her desk for 15 years planning to use that name for her first child (her husband didn’t love it so they didn’t). Adrienne is our oldest’s name and neither name is very common, so it was fun to hear that these names would be someone else’s top picks. We’re really pleased. Thanks again!

Baby Girl Hellger, Sister to Samuel and Amelia

Barb writes:

My husband and I will have our 3rd and last baby with a planned c-section on tues, May 21. In the past, we have decided on the baby’s name in recovery (partly because we did not find out baby’s sex before their birth). But we know this will be a girl. Our surname is like Hellger.

Our 2 older kids are Samuel David and Amelia Belle (4 and 2). Both first names are traditional names that we liked, and MN are family names. We are struggling a bit to finalize our name options, it is hard for me to make a final decision. We will most likely wait to see her in recovery and decide then again. But I thought I would still seek any advice and suggestions that I can in these final weeks.

On my mother’s side, my great-gramma was Olive Belle (the Belle used as a MN already). I like Olive as an option this time. Olive’s daughter (my gramma, who passed before I was born) was Mary Elizabeth. My MN is Beth. On my father’s side, my grandpa’s mother was Elizabeth. So Elizabeth or some form of it (Elise we like) is a very high consideration for this baby’s MN. We do not have any other family girl names that are suitable, unless we simply choose something not family-related (I have always liked the name Louise). Worried I will feel guilty if we do that, since our other 2 kids have family MN’s.

When our daughter Amelia was born, we were mulling Amelia or Emerson. I find a lot of negative feedback about Emerson, and it does not flow well with Elizabeth (or Beth). So we have pretty much ruled it out. I have also in the past loved Madeline, but it runs the risk of misspelling, and the common NN Maddy, and there is a Madeline in our fam now. My husband liked Sophia, but I do not want Top 10 names, too common. He also liked Natalie, but I am not fond of it. We have also mulled Lillian, Abigail, Evangeline, and Olivia. Many other names are out, due to family members or friends’ kids (Charlotte, Lily, Hannah, Grace, anything with Belle – ie. Annabelle, Isabelle, etc, Claire, Lydia). We are avoiding the first letters A, B, D, H, J, R, S, T. I also suggested Corinne, but he had never heard it. We don’t want something too out there…

So after lots of suggestions, my husband and I have narrowed it down. Here are the names we have:
Violet Elise or Violet Elizabeth
Caroline Elise or Caroline Elizabeth
Olive Elizabeth

I don’t know if Elise is refined enough to honor the multiple Elizabeth’s in our family tree, but it does seem more unique and short and pretty. But worried that Violet Elizabeth or Caroline Elizabeth is a mouthful! MN Beth, like mine is a bit dull. Is Olive Elizabeth too many vowels, too mushy to say? We also call Samuel “Sam”, and occasionally we call Amelia “Millie” – Millie Belle is easy and fun to say. My day’s mother was Mildred, so it is a subtle honor to her. But we do not like any NN’s for Caroline – Caro, Carol, Liney, etc. maybe we shouldn’t worry about NN options.

Any help is appreciated!!!

 

I prefer Elizabeth to Elise, mostly for the namesake reason but also because I slightly prefer the flow of it—but I think either one works. I don’t think Elizabeth is too long or too mushy with the first name candidates, unless you plan on saying them all the time as part of your usual name for her. If you’d like to make a nickname parallel to Millie Belle, Elizabeth shortens easily to Beth or Bette or Bess.

If you decide to go with something else as the middle name, I don’t see any reason for guilt. It’s quite common for parents to run out of good family names after a child or two. And while it’s nice to have a meaningful middle name, “I’ve always liked that name” is a good meaning too.

Because I only recently learned of them myself and in case you hadn’t heard of them yet either, I’ll mention the nicknames Rory and Callie for Caroline. I love Millie Belle and Callie Bess, or Millie Belle and Rory Beth.

It doesn’t seem like a good idea to add to the name list at this point, and I like your plan of making the final decision in recovery as you did with the first two. But perhaps it would be helpful to have a poll, to see if it brings you closer to one name or another beforehand.

My own vote is for Violet. I like the way it has the same number of letters as the other two names, even though I don’t think that matters at all; and I like the way all three names have an L and an E, even though ditto. I like the sound of it with your surname, and I like Amelia and Violet as sister names. I voted for Violet Elizabeth to get the family honor name and because I prefer the sound, but I think Violet Elise is very nice too (and mirrors the number of letters in her sister’s middle name, even though that doesn’t matter at all, it’s just fun).

[yop_poll id=”12″]

 

 

Name update! Barb writes:

I wanted to give an update on our new baby and the name we chose! Your feedback and poll helped tremendously, and I appreciate all of the suggestions to help us with such a big responsibility. We were debating between Violet and Caroline for first names (and Olive – but my husband couldn’t get past Olive Oyl); and either Elizabeth or Elise for a middle name.

Our daughter was born last Thursday, May 16th at 1:09pm, weighing 9 lbs, 13 oz and 20-1/2 inches long. We decided to name her Violet Elise. We were scheduled for a C-section yesterday on May 21, but my water broke (unbeknownst to me, since that had never happened before!), so we had a crazy day of figuring out care for our other two kids (thank goodness for good neighbors!) and only 3 hours from realizing what was going to happen until her birth. But we are all healthy and adjusting well.

We truly loved the name Violet, and it seemed like the right fit to go with our other kids’ names, Samuel and Amelia. We actually didn’t decide on which MN until the following afternoon — it was still hard for me to decide. In the end, we liked the sound and shorter version Elise over Elizabeth, and we realize that Elise still honors our family members named Elizabeth, but it flows better. The poll you set up for me actually had about 40% of nearly 500 votes for Violet Elizabeth, and that weighed heavy on me. All names take time to grow on me! She’s a beautiful girl, so I hope her name does her proud. Here’s a pic or two of Violet and our family.

Thank you again!

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Baby Girl Grabiner, Sister to Charlotte; Creating a Girl Name List from a Boy Name List

Jennifer writes:

Hi!

I am writing to find out how I can get your help!

We are due with a second baby girl in August and are really struggling finding a name that we love. Our first daughter is Charlotte Lucy Grabiner. We are working on using the nickname Lottie more regularly (shes 2.5 now). My husband is Josh and I am Jennifer.

This might be an unusual situation but we actually only have boy names that we love – lol! So I thought maybe if I shared those with you you might be able to come up with some girl names in a similar style so that we can finally find one we really and truly love. The girl’s name does not by any means need to be a feminine form of any of the boy ones, rather I am looking for one that has a similar quality or style to it. I’m not sure how you would categorize our taste (southern, classic, not popular but not too unusual, strong, prep school like – ha ha, ??? I’m having trouble putting it into words). Anyway so here’s the boy name list. Good luck and thank you!!!!

Emmett
Whittaker (our #1 choice for a boy – Whittaker Bates Grabiner, Whitt for short)
Bennett
Everett
Landon
Dexter
Fisher (middle)
Mark (middle)
Bentley
Bates (middle)
Yates
Preston
Graham
Penn
Blake
Anderson

 

It depends in part on whether you plan to have more children. If you might have a boy in the future, I would want to be careful not to suggest a girl name that would rule out a favorite boy name: for example, if you’re planning more children and would definitely want to use Whittaker for a boy, I wouldn’t want to try to sell you on Whitney. But if you’re definitely stopping at two, I’d be looking for ways to get you something close to the names you weren’t going to get to use. Also, if you’re planning more children and would use Whittaker, I might look for double-T names for this baby as well, just for fun.

Another issue is that it’s common to have quite a different style for girls than for boys. The name Charlotte is vintage, literary, and currently popular; I wouldn’t use those same adjectives for very many of the names on your boy-name list. If I’d seen only your boy-name list and didn’t know you had a Charlotte, I might be suggesting names such as Sloane, Carrington, Britt, Bex, Kerrigan, Presley, Lane, Darby, Padgett, Yeardley, Greer, Ellery, Waverly, Whitley, Hollis, Rowan. If I’d seen you had a daughter named Charlotte but didn’t see your boy-name list, I might be suggesting names such as Evelyn, Eleanor, Josephine, Vivian, Nora, Abigail.

When I look at names that go well with your boy-name style, I keep coming up with options that seem to clash with Charlotte: Charlotte and Peyton, Charlotte and Berkeley, Charlotte and Avery, Charlotte and Lennox. This makes me hesitate to answer your question as asked. Because your daughter’s middle name is also vintage, literary, and currently popular, I tentatively conclude that your style for girls is different than your style for boys—though there is some overlap in names such as Emmett, Everett, and Graham.

Charlotte is a name that can sound sweet or sassy. Others that seem like that to me, without clashing:

Beatrix
Camilla
Cecily
Eliza
Emeline
Esther
Eve
Fiona
Frances
Georgia
Harriet
Josephine
Katherine
Lila
Matilda
Nora
Philippa
Phoebe
Ruby
Simone
Stella
Vivian
Winifred

 

 

Name update!

I deeply apologize for this email coming so much later than I ever anticipated. I want to thank y’all and everyone else for the immense amount of help y’all provided us in naming our sweet baby girl.

August 1, 2013 we welcomed our 2nd daughter, Emmeline Rose Grabiner, sister to Charlotte Lucy Grabiner.

Swistle and many commenters suggested the name Emmaline/Emaline/Emeline. As I wrote in my interim update, I was in love with the name Emmaline. My husband, however was not.

Over much discussion we found that we wanted to avoid a nn of Emma due to its popularity (#1 name the previous year).  Also, many Google searches later I discovered the historical version of Emmaline is actually Emmeline.  I liked that that the name had a history, that it avoided a natural nickname of Emma from its spelling, and allowed for a more acceptable nickname to us of Emmie.

Rose is a family name.

So we now have a Charlotte and an Emmeline. And although we don’t use them all that much now, we have nicknames of Lottie and Emmie. Love!

Thank you again and again for all the help!!

Jennifer

Baby Naming Issue: When and How to Break the News that the Other Parent’s Favorite Name Isn’t Going to Be the One?

K. writes:

I’m writing to you with a dilemma that is not exactly pressing, but is a wee bit difficult. Some back story: my partner and I have been together for going on five years now. When we first got together, we were in our early twenties and he was not particularly into the idea of having kids. In fact, he was so leery of it that it took almost a year of us dating for me to feel comfortable sharing my name nerdiness with him. Eventually he warmed up to the idea of having a child, and in fact at this point, now that we are entering our late 20s and planning marriage, we’re actively talking about it. The problem: when I first mentioned my favorite names, about four years ago, he immediately latched on to one in particular from my girl list, Echo. I had it on the list as a whim more than anything else, but he took it and ran. He’d never really considered his own favorite names before, but decided immediately that Echo was IT. At the time I was so overjoyed that he showed any interest in names or babies at all that I did little to curb the Echo love. In fact, I encouraged it. Maybe too much. Nowadays when we talk about our future child he refers to it as “Little Echo” or “Baby Echo” (he thinks it is a fine name for a boy or a girl…I have put my foot down on the boy side). As the years have passed, he has become more and more attached to Echo, while I on the other hand have grown to feel just “eh” about it. I might be more able to accept it if it didn’t sound quite frankly awful with his surname, which is sounds like an adverb, even though technically it is not– it sounds like “Hawley” with an “Sm” in front. Taken together, Echo HisSurname sounds like a grammatically incorrect sentence. It just doesn’t work!

At what point do I break the news to him that Echo isn’t going to be the name of our future baby? Now…? When we are trying to conceive? When we’re pregnant? …In the delivery room? Or, considering that, although I’m the name nerd and he’s not, he is about 10,000% more times attached to Echo than I am to any one name, should I just bite my tongue and let him have Echo? How does one navigate a partner’s passion for an unsuitable name, and when is the time to discuss it?

For the record, he does like a few other names… for boys he likes the names Bear, Wave, and Linus, and for girls Sonnet, Lavender, Story (doesn’t work with surname), Poem, Judy, Beverly, and Emma-Jean. Basically his taste runs straight from very unusual/eccentric word names to out-of-fashion mid-century grandma names, with nothing in between. My own taste is more eclectic but I guess I would classify it as unusual but traditional names, like Paloma, Cosima, Vera, Pearl, Caledonia, Rosie, Sarah, Penelope, and Polly (utterly unworkable with his surname); traditional Irish/Celtic names like Sorcha, Rhiannon, and Aine (Anya); and word names. The overlap between my tastes and his is in those word names. My favorites are Blossom (problematic with surname), Spring (also problematic but better than most), Sonnet (works for surname), Garland, Sage, Yarrow, Ballad, and Sojourner. But honestly I much prefer more established names like Paloma, Penelope, and Pearl (I guess I like the letter P). For boys my favorites are Lionel, August, Moss, Sky, and Rowan. I think I have won him over to Lionel or August already.

Can you give me tips on shifting the conversation from “Baby Echo” to “Baby Something Else”? Especially when his attachment to it, though vexing and impractical, is also pretty adorable?

Thank you, Swistle!

 

Ah. We had something similar in the Swistle household when in our pre-baby days Paul became quite attached to the name Fenchurch and I found the name (and his enthusiasm) appealing enough to kind of go along with it. And yet, I was not going to name an actual child Fenchurch.

My tactic was to grrrrrrrrradually start making little comments every time the name came up. The gist of each comment was “No, but seriously,” though I said it in different ways.

Swistle: What do you think of Brenna?
Paul: It’s going to be FENCHURCH.
Swistle, treating it like a little in-joke: Ha ha, yeah! But DO you like Brenna? I’m not sure it works with our surname.

At first I thought it was going to work against you that the names on your joint list are all similar to Echo: it helped that I was able to reject Fenchurch as part of a whole category, rather than as an individual name. But with further thought, I think that makes it easier: you’re in the same situation as every parent who doesn’t like a name as much as the other parent does. Your line is something like “Oh, I do like that name—but not enough to use it.” If he feels betrayed, the follow-up line is equally casual: “Yes, it was on my list years ago, but at this point I feel kind of ‘eh’ about it, and I don’t like it with the surname. Let’s see if we can find something similar-but-fresher.”

The timing, I think, should be when you’re having a name conversation. That is, I don’t think I’d say it if he’s just referring to the future in a cute way; e.g., “Little Echo could ride her bike here!” But if you’re having a “What about ____?”/”I’m not sure I like it with the surname” talk, and the name Echo comes up, that’s when I’d say it. He says, “Well, Echo for a girl,” and you say wistfully, “Oh—I do like that name, but not enough to use it. What about your idea of Sonnet? I think that goes great with the surname. Or I still really like Pearl, and I think that’s similar to your idea of Beverly.” You deliver the bad news, and then you go right on as if it’s just one of many names you’re both considering.

It is possible it will come down to a bigger confrontation than that. Parents have written to us from the middle of situations where the other parent is insisting on a particular name and has developed an attitude of “It’s this name unless you can find me something I like better,” which is completely out of bounds. The correct mindset is “This name is off the list; now we need to work together to find something we like from all the names that remain.”

In some cases I would recommend using the much-loved name as a middle name, so that the parent who loves the name still gets to use it. If your main area of overlap is with word names, though, that might be too much word for one name: when I started combining options, I was getting perfume names and paint colors. But another area where the two of you overlap is the category of charmingly underused old-fashioned names; if you go with one of those, Echo might work beautifully in the middle.

If you’d be willing to use the name Echo if the surname weren’t a problem, this is the moment for the two of you to consider using your surname instead.

Or if you have a girl, it can be her Fetus Nickname: lots of people continue to call a child Bean or Peanut or Bear from those early days.

 

Has anyone else had experience with a situation like this? How did you handle it, and how did it go?

 

 

Name update!

Hi Swistle!

I thought this posting finally deserved an update.

We still haven’t had a kid, but your advice was greatly helpful and I can happily report we are now *long past Echo*. Not only Echo, but the whole category of “out there” word names. I got him to start doing the so-called “Starbucks test”, where you try giving an unusual name you’re considering to the barista, and gauge not only their reaction but your own. He got cold feet and was embarrassed every time! Echo, Bear, Wave, even Linus…he was too shy to say any of them. And frankly I had trouble with it for many of my own unusual girl favorites. So, we’ve become pragmatic. The only holdover from earlier years is Pearl, and our biggest concern now is whether Alice rules out a future Agnes, if Rosie is too sing-songy with surname…that kind of thing. And my favorite boy name, Alexander, he thinks is too common (and rules out Alice and Arthur– maybe our new issue is we like too many A names…?)

Thank you again for your generous and thoughtful reply! I will write in sometime in the future when we’re actually having a baby or after.

With gratitude,
K.

P.S. Oh also, just one more thing– among our close friends, TWO other couples also have Pearl at the top of their lists– maybe just a hiccup or local trend, or maybe indicative of the future?

 

 

 

Second name update!

Hi Swistle!
Back with another update. We had a baby girl earlier this month, and named her Alice. After all that back and forth years ago, the choice was extremely smooth and pretty much settled before we even conceived. Before we knew her sex we tossed around Pearl and Branwen as possibilities, but never very seriously, and as soon as we found out she was a girl, we spontaneously started calling her Alice. That was that! There are several women named Alice we admire (Coltrane, Munro, Waters, Walker, Neel) but we didn’t name her after one of them per se, or at least not in a way we’ve shared with people. We ended up using a wilder word name for her middle name. I’m leaving it off because it’s so distinctive, but think type of fruit. :) Thank you again for all your advice, and for your blogs!

Baby Naming Issue: Do People Know Polly Is a Nickname for Mary?

Jodi writes:

You have helped me name a couple of our children (Juniper Lucy, born in 2009, and Nikolai Dickson, adopted in 2012) – thank you!

We are adopting again and looking to preserve something of our new daughter’s birth name while also reflecting her belonging in our family, as we did with Niko’s name.

We plan to use the name Mary somewhere in her name. It is a family name for us and is similar in sound to her birth surname. One of the options we have stumbled upon is to call her Polly, as a nickname for Mary. This avoids the issue of confusion with several other Marys in our inner circle, and is also just more our style. If we do this we will keep her birth name as her middle name (I should add that the reason we don’t want to use her birth name as her first name is that it is similar to one of our other daughters’ names, but we may end up just doing it anyway.)

My question is does anyone do this anymore? Is the age of putting Mary on the birth certificate of a little Polly over, or do enough people know the history of it that it’s still a valid and legitimate nickname? The name Polly also has the advantage of rhyming with the nickname she goes by in the orphanage, which we hope would ease the transition for her slightly, but we would definitely want to put Mary on the birth certificate because of the family connection.

I’d love to hear what you and your readers think. Is Mary-called-Polly sweet and full of antique charm or just weird and confusing to modern namers? Do people even know they are/were related or is it just because I’ve read way too many name books and blogs that I know that?

 

Answering for myself, I can say that the only reason I knew Molly and Polly were nicknames for Mary is that I happened to see it while looking at baby name books. If I hadn’t seen it in a name book, and someone used Mary/Polly for a baby, I’m not sure if I’d think “Oh neat!” or if I’d be confused and have trouble remembering it. I THINK I’d be charmed, especially if I looked it up. I have the same issue when I’m mentioning Daisy as a nickname for Margaret: it’s traditional and established, but does that necessarily mean it still makes sense to people now?

I’d LIKE to see more Polly and Daisy for Mary and Margaret, so I’m motivated to back the idea. And I’m also in favor of vintage nicknames, which is why I like Sadie and Sally for Sarah, and Meg and Maggie for Margaret, and Betsy and Bess for Elizabeth. And it seems like the current environment is very open to unusual name/nickname combinations, not only for juniors and thirds and fourths but also for names that have a sound or a couple of letters in common but are otherwise unrelated.

(As an aside, my mother and I were both recently charmed by the Mary _____ double-first-name concept: Mary Agnes, Mary Katherine, Mary Alice, Mary Margaret, etc., if that would work for your situation.)

So what I think what both Jodi and I are interested to know is what approximate percentage of people already KNOW about the Mary/Polly connection, to see how much of an uphill battle it might be, if any. Let’s have a poll!

[yop_poll id=”7″]

 

 

Name update! Jodi writes:

I wanted to update you on the post you did for us back in April: “Baby Naming Issue: Do People Know Polly Is a Nickname for Mary?”  We actually had to set our girl’s name in stone legally on our first trip to her birth country way back in July, but I wanted to wait until she was home safe and sound to update so that I could send a picture!

At the time you posted our question, we had all but decided to abandon Polly and stick with our original favorite.  All the lovely comments about Polly really made me reconsider!  But, in the end, we went with our first love, and it suits her so perfectly.  She is Delphinia Mary Y., called Delia pretty much exclusively.  I mentioned in the comments that Delphinia is a near-translation of her original name, though it sounds nothing like it, and I love how it preserves something of who she was before she was ours.  She’s been with us now for almost a month, and we’re all totally in love.  She is the beautiful brunette in our sea of blond in the photo.

Thank you (and your readership!) so much for your help,

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