Hi, Swistle!

I was hoping you and your lovely readers could help me name our second little girl, due the day before Thanksgiving. Our last name is Br0wning and we have a 2 year old daughter named Georgia Mae.

Our current list is down to about four names but each has an issue that one of us can’t seem to shake. I think our general problem is that we heard the name Georgia, fell in love, and never looked back. That certainly isn’t the case this time and keeps me searching for that one elusive name I’ve either never heard or need to hear in just the right moment. I know searching for a perfect name can be an exercise in futility but it seems my pregnant brain is up for the challenge.

Here is our working list and the issues with each. The middle name will either be Joy or Joan.

Ella- my husband loves this but it’s popular and will probably continue to gain popularity, especially with George Clooney giving the name to one of his twins

Ruby- my husband dislikes the fact that it rhymes with boobie and fears she will be mercilessly teased in school

Lydia- this is my favorite name but husband isn’t in love

Rose- our last name makes me think of a dying rose and I can’t get past that imagery. It’s also one syllable and doesn’t sound great with the middle name choices.

Other names we’ve vetoed for various reasons:

Della
Miriam
Hazel
Nora
Kate
June
Eliza
Stella
Gemma
Willa
Josephine
Vivian

Thank you so much for your help!

From your list my favorite is Ruby, followed by Lydia. I don’t know if the rhyming thing with Ruby is an issue or not; I would not have thought of it, but perhaps someone who has a Ruby in the family could weigh in. I agree with you about the problem with Rose combined with your surname, and Ella does not seem to me like the right type of name here: it seems too light and insubstantial next to the name Georgia.

I’d add:

Augusta
Beatrix
Bianca
Cecily
Celeste
Claudia
Cordelia
Eleanor
Eloise
Esther
Fiona
Florence
Frances
Harriet
Henrietta
Louisa
Matilda
Minerva
Philippa
Simone
Sylvia
Winifred

Update (and photo) on Baby Boy Knight, Brother to Graham

Dear Swistle,

We are having our fourth child and third baby girl in early November of this year! Our children are James Robert Faul (5yo), Vivienne Rose Faul “Vivi” (3yo), and Lillian Kate Faul “Lillie” (1yo). Girl names have always been more difficult for us…it was just hours before we left the hospital that we decided on Lillian.

I’ve always liked the name Scarlett, but have received mixed reviews from family and friends. I’d most likely use Marie/Maria or Christine/Christina for a middle name with Scarlett after my mother, however I am open to suggestions. One issue with Scarlett is that I don’t love the nicknames. I’ve thought of “SC” pronounced “Essie” but I don’t know if that is grasping too far…either from the first 2 letters of Scarlett or if I went with Scarlett Christina.

Other names we’ve considered are Caroline (my husband likes this), Madeleine (my mom likes this), Alice, Ellen, Alexandra, Marielle (I don’t know if this is too unusual?) I like nicknames like Elle, Ellie, Milly, etc. but don’t love some of the original names that go with those.

Maybe Scarlett as a middle name? Alice Scarlett, Ellen Scarlett??

This is so difficult the 3rd time around!! We would appreciate any suggestions that you might have.

Thank you!

Jessica and Bobby Faul

I like the idea of Scarlett as the middle name. It doesn’t quite fit with the style of the other names. If you were both absolutely set on using it, I’d say it doesn’t clash and it would be fine—but since you are already uncertain about the style and the nickname situation, then I’d put it on the middle-name list for now and see if you pine for it.

If you are pronouncing Caroline with a “lynn” ending (as opposed to a “lyne” ending), then I think it repeats too much about the first two girls’ names. Vivienne, Lillian, and Caroline almost rhyme, and they all have the same syllables and rhythm. The syllables and rhythm could make them a very compatible set, and in fact I like that; it’s the -lynn sound right after a Lillian that makes it feel Too Much to me. Madeleine has the same issue, if you’re pronouncing it with a -lynn sound instead of a -lyne sound. So does Ellen, except it has a different number of syllables; and in a list of the names, it seems almost like an echo of part of the name Lillian.

I like Marielle best from your list. Vivienne, Lillian, and Marielle. It changes the endings while keeping the length and the level of dressiness, and everyone gets nicknames. I even like the LOOK of the three names together. And I think it gives all three names a little French spin.

More to consider:

Annabelle Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Annabelle
Cecily Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Cecily
Cordelia Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Cordelia
Eloise Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Eloise
Emmeline Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Emmeline
Genevieve Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Genevieve
Josephine Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Josephine
Margaret Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Margaret
Marilla Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Marilla
Matilda Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Matilda
Rosalie Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Rosalie
Rosemary Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Rosemary
Sabrina Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Sabrina
Sylvia Faul; James, Vivienne, Lillian, and Sylvia

Update on Baby Naming Issue: Husband Is Being No Help

Dear Swistle,

I have been following your blog since I was pregnant with my first child in 2012 and have been using you as a reference ever since. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and logic when it comes to names and I’m hoping you might be able to help me on my last baby’s name. I’m feeling a bit desperate at my naming dilemma!

My name is Sarah and my husband’s name is Scott. I am 37 weeks pregnant with my 3rd and last child, a girl (SO EXCITED), after having two boys. My first son is named Bennett and my second son is named Weston. It took us awhile to agree on these names and we didn’t officially name them until a few days after they were born, but ultimately we are happy with them and like having less common full names with common nicknames (ie Ben and Wes). Bennett has my husband’s name as his middle name (Scott) and Weston has a meaningful middle name (Dallaire). Both boys have my maiden name as their second middle name and my daughter will have the same. Her first middle name will either be mine (Elizabeth) or a family name.

Unfortunately, I feel completely lost when naming this little girl. There are so many names that are lovely, but none that I love or feel like my daughter’s name. From reading your blog, I know that sometimes people put themselves in a corner with too many parameters, so I’m wondering if I might be at fault. This is what I’m looking for in a name:

1) Less common full name (bonus points for a cute nickname but not necessary)

2) Gender distinctive- I’d like people to know from the names that I have 2 boys and 1 girl and not think I have 3 boys with a boy-ish or gender neutral name

3) A name that people can recognize and easily spell, or at least not be too difficult to figure out

4) Not be too trendy or time-stamped within a certain decade

5) Sounds good with my husband’s last name, Howell, which I find to be difficult. I tend to prefer 2-3 syllable names and not 1 syllable names with his last name

6) Does not start with an H, B, W, or S. Also, I would prefer not to have repeating end sounds with our names like ton for Weston, ett for Bennett, or ah for Sarah, but this isn’t a deal breaker.

7) Has a good meaning, but not a deal breaker. I had to give that one up when we named Weston since his name means “western town.”

As a Sarah of the ’80’s, I’m a bit sensitive to having too common of a name since I was Sarah A. for my entire childhood. My husband, however, seems to primarily prefer extremely popular but pretty girl names. I like the names he likes, but am having a hard time getting over their popularity. This is what our lists looks like so far:

His List:
Norah (sounds close to Sarah)
Evelyn
Charlotte
Amelia
Juliet
Natalie
Claire
Amelie

My List:
Charis
Colette (same ending as Bennett)
Liv
Cora (sounds close to Sarah)

Names he has vetoed:
Feminine sounding surnames like Bellamy, Kendall, Remington, Emerson, Avery, Delaney, Everly, Arden, Campbell, Kensington, Morgan, Monroe, Ainsley and Ellis
Cleo (my great grandmother’s name)
Rosalie
Violet
Ivy
Bronte
Evangeline
Elin
Jolie
Anaya
Amira
Corinne
Adelaide
Adaline
Alice
Emmeline
Sydney
Quinn
Lila
Eloise
Elodie
Caroline
Claire

I’ve gone through Baby Name Wizard and I don’t like any of the girl sibling names for Bennett and Weston. I repeatedly go through books and the Social Security website and no name has jumped out as “the one.” I’m not sure if I haven’t come across it yet or if I just have to settle on a nice name that I don’t mind that I will grow to love?

Currently, I really like Cora but would like a longer version and have suggested Corinne, Coraline, Coretta, Cordelia but he isn’t a fan. I love the nickname Liv, but it sounds too short with Howell and I can’t think of a longer version I like besides Olivia which is way too popular. I really like the way Elin sounds with our last name, but he dislikes it. Corinne has a similar cadence but he had a friend named Koreen and said he would be too confused between the two. I like Colette in theory, but maybe not as much in reality. I feel its main appeal is that its familiar but not common, but it sounds very French to me and I don’t love the nicknames. I like Charis but I don’t love it.

Do you see anything that I might be missing? Can you think of any names that might go with some of my wish list or find a good reason to use a name that is currently on a list or even the vetoed list that we should reconsider?
If you could spend any time on my naming dilemma, I would truly appreciate it! I would love to have at least 2 or 3 contenders before I meet her.

Many thanks!!

Especially for those of us who have been pining to name a girl/boy after having a couple boys/girls, I think it can be hard to finally be in the place where we ACTUALLY GET TO DO SO. I remember naming my first two kids, both boys, and thinking, “This would be so much easier if I were having a GIRL: I have THOUSANDS of girl names I like!”—but then, confronted with an impending girl, it was hard to pin down my style. Like you, I didn’t like the recommended sister names: it turns out I have a different style in girl names than in boy names. The pressure can be increased by the feeling that it’s your one shot.

You asked if your list of preferences is too strict. Before I start cutting, I’ll say that you already seem like you’re being flexible about all of them: you don’t have any that look like you’re being rigid about it. But, looking it over, the one I’d definitely remove is the preference for the name not to end in an -a/-ah. SO MANY girl names end that way, and I don’t think it matters enough to be worth trying for it. My mom and I have matching name-endings and I never thought about it or noticed it until this very minute. I’m mentally flipping through the names of my friends and the names of their kids, and there are a ton of matching endings. It seems like a non-issue to me.

And although I share your preference not to repeat initials within the sibling group, I would remove if possible the preference not to repeat parental initials. Because you both have S names, if this were your first baby I’d suggest avoiding an S name (to avoid backing yourselves into a cutesy-corner with the next baby), but at this point I think it’s fine.

I think you’re wise to recognize that your concern about common names is rooted in your own experience. If possible, that would be another preference to downplay if you can. In 1980, the names Sarah and Sara were given to 2.07% of all baby girls. Today, that’s a higher percentage than THE TOP TWO MOST POPULAR NAMES COMBINED: the name Emma was given to 1.01% of baby girls last year, and the name Olivia was given to 1.00%. You could name your daughter the #1 most popular girl name in the United States, and her name would only be half as popular as yours was.

Let’s do a little more work on this topic, because I think it could help. The name Claire was #40 last year, given to .27% of baby girls; that’s approximately 1/7th as popular as your name was. Just imagine all the Sarahs/Saras you went to school with—but divided by seven. Every time there were seven Sarah/Saras in a group, there would instead be only one; fourteen Saras/Sarahs would only be two. The name Juliet/Juliette was given to .16% of baby girls last year; that’s approximately 1/13th as popular as you name was. For every thirteen Saras/Sarahs in your graduating class, instead there’d be only one.

From your list, my favorite by far is Cora—and since your husband has Norah on his list, I see potential for agreement. I don’t think it’s too similar to Sarah. In 2016, it was used for .17% of baby girls, so there are about a dozen Saras/Sarahs in your age group for every Cora there’d be in hers.

Would you want to consider Flora? It’s similar to Norah and Cora, but much less common. Flora Howell; Bennett, Weston, and Flora.

I wonder if your husband would be willing to go back over that veto list. Did he give a lot of consideration to each name, or did he dismiss them quickly? There are quite a few good names there. Also, I notice just now that the name Claire is on his list and on the veto list, so one must be a typo.

Is Clara an option? Clara Howell; Bennett, Weston, and Clara.

Or Lydia. Lydia Howell has a particularly nice sound to me. Bennett, Weston, and Lydia.

From your husband’s list, I like Claire (if it’s supposed to be there) and Juliet. Juliet repeats the -et sound, but it doesn’t hit my ear that way, I think because of the different emphasis and different number of syllables; plus, Weston’s name serves as a separator; plus, the boys use nicknames. Bennett, Weston, and Juliet; Ben, Wes, and Jules.

Instead of Colette, I’d like to suggest Celeste—but that just takes the repeated -ett sound with Bennett and turns it into a repeated -est- sound with Weston.

Or Margot? Margot Howell; Bennett, Weston, and Margot.

Or actually: Margaret. That gives you an uncommon but timeless long form, and SO MANY nicknames, including Margo and Daisy and Maisie and Greta. Margaret Howell; Bennett, Weston, and Margaret; Ben, Wes, and SO MANY NICKNAME OPTIONS.

Josephine is along the same lines: uncommon/timeless long form and good nicknames. Josephine Howell; Bennett, Weston, and Josephine; Ben, Wes, and Josie.

Names I’d rescue from the veto list: Cleo (though I think it might be frustrating if it kept being mistaken for Chloe), Rosalie, Ivy, Eloise, Elodie, and Claire (if it’s supposed to be there). I particularly like Rosalie: Rosalie Howell; Bennett, Weston, and Rosalie; Ben, Wes, and Rose.

I will note that I’m not having much trouble with your surname. I’ve tried it with a bunch of names while writing this post, and very few have caused trouble. I wonder if there are any names you’re ruling out because of surname issues, but a survey of your peers would find everyone else saying there was no surname issue?

Update on Baby Boy Chelsea, Brother to Eleanor (Ellie)

Dear Swistle and name enthusiasts,

Our first child (our rainbow baby) was born at the end of January. After three miscarriages over two years of trying to start a family, we ended up deciding to go with two family names for his name so that we could honour many important men in our life all at once: James David is his name (the first name is my FIL and three of our four grandfathers’ name and the middle name is my father’s name).

With many men named James on both family trees nicknamed “Jim” or “Jimmy”, we knew that choosing this name meant we would be doomed to have another “Jim” unless we were proactive and chose a nickname ourselves from the get-go. We fell in love with using his initials as his nickname before he was even born. Especially since I wanted his middle name to feel as important as his first, being my own father’s name.

Now he is six months old, and I’m wondering if anyone has experience or stories to share about using initials as a nickname? I find myself tripping up when introducing him to new people — do I introduce him as James or JD? When he goes to school one day, will he write James at the top of his work or do we encourage JD as his everyday name? So far at the doctor’s office they have him down as James but there’s a place on the form to write “preferred name”, do we begin to have them call him JD also?

I’d appreciate stories of how an “initials name” has worked out for others, either as their own name or as a parent with a child who uses initials. I’m noticing that using initials feels less like a “nickname” and more like his everyday use name, compared to my experience as a Stephanie and being called Steph sometimes. No one else in our families have initials as their nickname/name. Just curious how others have handles this, or how the think they would handle it if they went a similar route.

I suppose I’m wondering, should we commit to JD all the time or should we use James and then JD will just happen when speaking to him/with family and friends as they get to know him (more casually)?

I was always name obsessed, so the fact I named my child with a nickname style I don’t have any experience with is throwing me off! Thank you in advance for hopefully publishing my letter! I’ve attached a photo of our lovebug as well.

Thanks,
Stephanie

It seems to me that an initials nickname would be the same as any other nickname in terms of introductions and so forth. If you had a baby William and you wanted him called Liam, then I would suggest saying “This is Liam” to casual acquaintances at the park, and “This is William; we call him Liam” to doctors and schools. Any time the nickname might cause confusion (such as when the receptionist might have the appointment down with the full legal name), I would say William and then Liam; any time there is no reason to share the full version (the other baby at the grocery store doesn’t need to know the story while exchanging waves), just say Liam. Any time there is a space on paperwork for nickname or preferred name, you’d write Liam. A child named William but always called Liam would write “Liam” on his school papers.

Same with an initials nickname such as JD: if you’re at baby sing-along and the group needs a name for the “Hello, ______!” song, say JD. When you bring him for class the first day, tell the teacher “This is James; we call him JD.” If she wants to make you a name tag with your name and your baby’s name on it, the name tag would say “Stephanie / JD.” When there is space on paperwork for a nickname or preferred name, you’d write JD.

My youngest went by a two-initial nickname up until kindergarten, when he said he wanted to use his given name instead. But before then, we put that nickname on his paperwork as his preferred name (after asking him what he wanted me to put there, since he used his given name and his nickname), and so his preschool teachers wrote his nickname on his cubby, his paperwork folder, and on the wall displays; he wrote his nickname on his papers, and that’s what his classmates called him.

My guess is that there are a couple of things tripping you up:

1. JD is not the kind of automatic nickname you’re accustomed to with Stephanie/Steph. People named Jennifer and Stephanie and David may find that people call them Jen and Steph and Dave whether they like it or not. With a name like JD, you have to tell people or they won’t know. I suspect the issue here isn’t so much with initials nicknames, but rather with nicknames that require a little announcement (Mia for Amelia, for example, or Nell for Penelope).

2. Even more, “Steph” is right on the edge of being a pet name rather than a nickname. I can picture a business card with “Jenny Miller” or “Dave Miller” or “J.D. Miller” on it, but “Steph Miller” would be more unexpected: the nickname Steph seems more casual.

Wait. I just thought of a third thing: Are you not using the nickname much yet? I was picturing you calling him JD at home and with family already, but are you calling him James right now and waiting to activate the nickname? If so, would you prefer to just call him James for now? You can absolutely do that. For one thing, I don’t think people go directly to Jim/Jimmy for kids named James anymore, just like they wouldn’t go straight to Billy for a William or Bobby for a Robert.

But if you’d like him to be known as JD, and you’re not calling him that at home yet, then my actual first suggestion is to start using it most of the time at home: I think that will help a LOT with the awkward feelings/introductions. And the rest of it doesn’t matter much, or can wait. If the doctor calls him James, that doesn’t throw anything off even if he’s JD to everyone else in his life; and what he writes on his school papers can wait a few more years.

I’m thinking this through as I’m writing, but I guess the real decision here is this (and this seems to be exactly what you’re asking, now that I’m looking at it this way): Do you want him called JD all the time and NOT called James? or do you want him called James, but when people reach for a nickname you want them to reach for JD?

If you want him called JD and not called James, then this is definitely the time to completely saturate his environment with JD: JD should be on his doctor forms, his daycare/preschool forms, his baby sing-along forms, and on your calendar when you write down his appointments. You’d refer to him as JD when discussing him with your husband or your families, and introduce him that way to all new acquaintances. If there’s no space on a form for a nickname, you’d write the nickname in parentheses.

But if you want him called James-and-JD (just not James-and-Jim), then you can play this whole thing much more casually. When you are making a new friend at the park, you might introduce him as James and then add “…or we also call him JD”—or you might just say “This is James” and then the new friend will hear you say, “JD, do you want a drink of water?” and pick up on that, just as you would if she introduced a William and then asked Liam if he wanted a drink. With the doctor, it wouldn’t matter much what the doctor calls him because the child will recognize both James and JD as his name; but it’s good to have JD in the file in case a daycare/school submits a request for paperwork and uses JD instead of James. In school, the teacher will understand that the child is called James and JD, and will probably ask you and/or him which he’d prefer; if he writes either one on the top of the paper, the teacher will know it’s him.