Hi Swistle!
This is baby girl # 3 and we don’t plan on having more children. Our last name is pronounced In-Stiss but starts with an E and ends in the spelling “ice.” Our daughters are Tilly (Laura Tilson) and Lulu (Louisa Susan)- all of those names being family names, tributes to grandparents and parents.
I would like this baby to be named in a way that honors my grandmother, whose name was Frances Bernice, but who always went by “Bea.” My name is also Frances but I go by Franny.
Our first choice became Beatrice because I like it more than Bernice and the nickname “Bea” can honor my grandmother. Then we realized that with our last name this may not work: “Bee-ah -triss In- stiss” – both names end in the same sound and also both share the same last letters “ice.”
Now we feel we cannot use the name- do you agree?
My husband also thinks that “Bea Instiss” just doesn’t roll off the tongue/ sound right.Our new favorite choice became Ruth- Ruth Bernice or Ruth Frances- nickname Ruthie.
This name popped up as one we both have always liked and we feel it fits in well with our other daughters’ names. It is a (distant) family name and I worry it doesn’t hold as much “meaning” as the other names we’ve used. Also I’m sad to walk away from using the name Bea. I do love the name Ruthie though and have for some time.
I consider the name Ruth a classic/ biblical name but I’m wondering if it will become “trendy” this year with many families honoring Ruth Bader Ginsburg?Final option that I’m still toying with- I have always loved the name Blaire for a girl-
Blaire Frances nicknamed Bea or Frances Blaire nicknamed Bea. My husband does not feel that Bea is a nickname for Blaire like it is for Beatrice or Bernice. I worry that Blaire doesn’t fall into the same category as our other daughters’ names (traditional yet whimsical? I don’t know how to categorize them!)Can you provide any insight into what name would be best for this new addition?
We just continue to go in circles!Other family names we’ve considered: Tucker, Mary nicknamed Mae or Minnie, Frances with another nickname (could Annie, Nan or Nancy be a nickname for Frances?)
Other names we like: Martha, Clementine, Poppy, Daisy
Thanks to you and your readers for any help you can give us in naming this special girl! I promise I will give an update!
Franny
I started by trying to figure out a way to make Bea work for Blair (“Well, it’s like B., which would be a perfectly legitimate nickname for any name starting with B…”), but then started feeling like “Bea, from B., from Blair, for Frances-Bernice-called-Bea” was getting too many steps away from the honor name.
But I don’t think of Bea as a nickname for Bernice, either. DID it come from that, in your grandmother’s case? It seems like so many women of that generation had names like “Eleanor Ann, called Peggy” or “Margaret Mildred, called Dolly.” And I do think it’s possible to just DO that: Frances Blair, called Bea; or Ruth Bernice, called Bea. But it also makes me feel a little tired.
Wait. Wait wait. Actually, I don’t feel tired when I consider the option of naming her Frances Bernice, called Bea. Then it becomes FULLY naming her after your grandmother: both of your grandmother’s actual names, plus her nickname. AND, this then clicks into a naming practice more familiar to us with male names: your daughter would have the same first name as you, so it would be familiar/expected for her to have a different nickname to avoid confusion.
So that is my STRONG first choice: Frances Bernice, called Bea. Your grandmother’s entire name/nickname, and also your first name. An absolute total package of an honor name. I don’t really want to consider anything else.
But I don’t think you have to rule out Beatrice Instiss, if you prefer that option. I think it’s probably a little tricky to say, and Not Quite Ideal in its combination of sounds—but something I’ve noticed over the years is how VERY MANY names are Not Quite Ideal. If you look at the credits of a movie or TV show, or leaf through a yearbook, there are SO MANY names that, if they came up on this blog, we might all agree Don’t Quite Work—and yet! there they are! working!
This morning I was listening to NPR, and once again noticed Franco Ordoñez carefully saying his name. If his parents had come to us, I think quite a few of us would have recommended avoiding putting all those O’s together—but there he is, saying that name on the air, and if anything it’s catchy. Similarly, I might have advised against the name Windsor Johnston, explaining that I found the whole thing difficult to say with all those sturdy consonants—and yet, after hearing Windsor Johnston say her name again and again over the years, and saying it myself, I see how it gets easier with practice and familiarity.
I don’t worry about how a nickname sounds with a surname, as long as it doesn’t result in something rude or silly (the classic example is Ben Dover). Bea Instiss is fine, and would not likely be said very often anyway, and will sound normal once it’s familiar. And “Tilly, Lulu, and Bea” is a pretty unbeatable set of sibling nicknames.
I also love Ruth. I like Ruth Frances best, to honor you and your grandmother. I don’t think it would be possible for that name to feel trendy, even if it became much more popular. And if it DOES have a surge of popularity because of RBG, I think that would be touching and delightful, and that it might feel lovely to have your daughter one of that group. (I am getting a little choked up thinking about this.)
Still: my top favorite by far is Frances Bernice, called Bea. If it were my job to assign names to babies, that is the name I would assign to this one, and I would do it with decisive confidence.
Name update:
Dear Swistle,
I’m in disbelief that it’s taken me 3 months to write, probably the fastest 3 months of my life! Your response was just perfect and most of all made me excited to name our daughter again, it felt like we couldn’t go wrong. After your response I was almost 100% sold on Frances Bernice nickname Bea. However I just kept coming back to the fact that I don’t love the name Frances (even though it’s my own!) or Bernice.I kept thinking about names that “don’t quite work” working. It is genius! I was overthinking the whole thing.
I love the name Beatrice and after speaking with my mom I felt like my grandmother would be so honored by a baby Bea regardless of her full name.Your “not quite ideal” and “don’t quite work” theory also influenced us in another way. I’ve always felt like we needed to honor my mother in law who is such a great grandmother but both her first and middle name always “didn’t quite work” so were dismissed early in the naming process. Suddenly I was like I don’t care I want her to feel honored! When we got to the hospital I said to my husband “well this doesn’t “sound” right to me at all but I suddenly want to give the baby your mom’s middle name.” He was like that is so weird I was just thinking the same thing!
So our perfect miracle girl got her perfect imperfect name!
Beatrice Lynn “Bea”
Thank you and your readers for all your help!
Franny
There is a professor at the University of California, San Diego named Ivan Evans, and when I came across his name I thought about how it is exactly the kind of name parents think of as being an impossible combination…but also a great name. Beatrice In-stiss seems like it falls into that same space. It has a rhythm to it, but is not cutesy. It is perfectly fine, and maybe even great. (I am leaning more and more towards great the more times I repeat it to myself).
How about a name that is Frances or Bernice-adjacent, like Francine or Bernadette? That way you could avoid the repeated name ending sound.
But Beatrice would also be fine, and you have a lot of other good options too!
I was just gonna suggest Bernadette. It’s on my list for a potential girl (my great grandma’s name) but using the nickname Birdy instead of Bernie. (Got the idea from Mad Men were Don sometimes calls Betty the nickname Birdy.) I also like the suggestion of Francine!
But I love Swistle’s suggestion of just using Frances Bernice. That’s my favorite option.
Beatrice “Instiss” is great. I don’t know that I would go with Beatrice Frances Instiss, as that’s a lot of sibilant endings in a row, but then again, how often do you actually say a person’s full name? More striking, imo, is the visual repetition “ice” in the first and last names when they are written out.
I had two great-aunts named Bernice/Berniece. They both were sometimes called Bernie, but mostly they went by their full name. One pronounced her name as BURR ness, the other as Burr NEECE.
I also like:
Beatrix — could still honor your grandmother, but eliminates the sound repetition. Beatrix Frances or Beatrix Ruth are lovely. Nicknames could be Bea or even Trix or Trixie.
Ruth Beatrice — Ruthie Bea would be a sweet nickname.
I was coming here to suggest Beatrix as well, which also offers the adorable nickname of Bix.
My first thought was: what about Ruth Bernice nn Ruby?
It really sounds hard to pronounce Beatrice In – stiss… But there are so many options of names that can be shortened to Bea: Bianca, Bella, Birdie, Sabine, Aubrey, Benedetta.
If you really want the name Beatrice, maybe the spelling Beatrix could avoid part of the problem.
So many wonderful options, can’t wait to hear an update on this one!
My fave is Ruth Bernice nn Ruby. All kinds of amazing and gives her her own name tied to the original Bea; adds better flow to just Bea Intiss; gives you option of Ruthie; nods directly to Bernice in the middle.
A Frances name would also be so great, to tie in with you. Meeting a Frances nn Nancy would make me do a double take in a very good way!
Forgot to add – I don’t find Frances Blaire nn Bea to be very far from Laura Tilson nn Tilly…. I mean I’m assuming Blaire isn’t a family name but it’s a similar style to Tilson and why not Bea?
I really like the nickname Bea for your daughter. Have you considered Beatrix? That changes the sound pattern a bit between the first and last names. Beatrix Frances Instiss. “Bea”
Or maybe Bianca called Bea. Bianca Frances Instiss “Bea”.
Using Frances as the middle or first name will make this daughter’s name extra special no matter what you decide on for her other given name.
Like a couple others, I was going to suggest Beatrix, but Bianca nn Bea is good, too. Ruth is a favorite of mine, too. Ruthie is cute if not quite as whimsical as Tilly & Lulu. Or how about Margaret nn Daisy, or Josephine nn Posey? Those would fit right into your sib set.
So many good options here!
I love Swistle’s suggestion of Frances Bernice. I also love the idea of Ruth Bernice or Ruth Beatrice, called Ruthie Bea. 😍😍
I love Frances Bernice called Bea!
Beatrice with your last name is a little much visually, but the sound doesn’t bother me too much. Honestly, I think the honor name factor outweighs the rhyming factor. How do you feel about Beatrix?
Personally, I think just about any name starting with B can reasonably be nicknamed to Bea. It may be shorter than your other daughters’ names, but I think Bea could also work fine as a stand alone first name.
As you list Mary, I particularly love Mary nn Maisie. Mary Tucker Instiss or Mary Frances Instiss are both lovely and Maisie is lovely with Tilly and Lulu :)
I feel like any B name could be nn Bea.
I also knew a family with a Lulu and Imogen nn Immy, which I thought was charming. (Said the UK way Im-uh-juhn). Tilly, Lulu and Immy.
It seems like Frances and Beatrice have really similar sounding endings, so I’m not sure why Beatrice is a problem with In-stiss but Frances is not other than the spelling. Neither bother me with the last name, just pointing out the similar sounds.
However, I just wanted to say that I love Ruth, and the reader suggestion of Ruth Beatrix is full of whimsy and history and gives you the nicknames Ru, Ruthie, Bea, Bix, Trixie, Ruby (RuBea???). It is such a fun name. I also think you will probably find a lot of people talk about using the name Ruth, and a lot of people love the idea, but in the first name spot you’re unlikely to see it in abundance anytime soon. That is just my opinion though!
Beatrix is such a great solution, either as a first or a middle. Beatrix Frances Instiss. Beatrix Ruth Instiss. Ruth Beatrix Instiss, called Ruthie or Ruby or Bea. Tilly and Lulu and Bea/Ruthie/Ruby. Lovely!
I am guessing Ruth will inch up in the stats but will not have a big swell like Emily/Mia/Isabella/Harper, because the sounds in it don’t also match popular sounds in girls’ names like those others did.
I like Margaret (nickname Meg or Maggie).
Tilly, Lulu, and Meg
Tilly, Lulu, and Maggie
Margaret Frances
Margaret Beatrice
Margaret Bernice
Margaret Bernadette
I love Swistle’s recommendation of using your grandmother’s full name and nickname: Frances Bernice. Since both you and your daughter would share first names, it makes perfect sense to use an alternate nickname (“Bea”) instead of Frances or Franny or Fran.
I absolutely love the idea of a daughter sharing her name with her mother and grandmother. So often we only come across names being passed down from fathers to sons, and with mothers and daughters, hoops are often jumped through to pass along honor names without “repeating” it. But why not repeat it? It is sweet, unique, and naming your daughter after you and your grandmother gives her two great honor names.
I say: go for Frances Bernice, called Bea. <3
A bit late but I want to suggest using Bernice with the nickname Bessie.
Tilly, Lulu and Bessie
Bernice Blaire (Bessie) Instiss
I’m very late, but how do you feel about Veronica? It is etymologically the same name as Bernice, and it reads a bit more contemporary. Veronica Frances is also rather lovely.
There are some really great suggestions on here already so I don’t think you’ll have any problems with whatever you decide to go with, but just to throw another one out for consideration inspired by these suggestions: A couple of people have mentioned Ruby as a nickname (from Ruth Bernice/Beatrice/Beatrix…). I actually wonder if Ruby could work as a first name for you.
It offers a really easy way to reach the “Bee/Bea” nickname, starts with the same sound as the name Ruth that you like but are hesitant about. I also feel that it matches your ‘traditional but whimsical’ style (okay, it may not be ‘traditional per se but is most definitely familiar’) and sounds lovely when the full names of your other girls are used: Laura, Louisa and Ruby.
Paired with one of the honour names it works well too: Ruby Bernice Instiss, Ruby Frances Instiss.
Beatrice (Bea) Lynn is lovely, and I love your reasoning!
Beatrice Lynn is so lovely!