Hi Swistle,
I am writing on behalf of my brother and sister-in-law, with their blessing of course, to see if your baby name expertise can help with this conundrum!
They have two children already, a girl and a boy.
Miles John (5)
Lucy Samantha (3)
Their surname is Banner-with-a-T. This will most likely be their last child. The dilemma is that unlike the rest of my siblings, my brother decided not to follow the hyphenated girls’ names tradition that my family has had for generations with Lucy, which has deeply upset my mother.
Neither my brother or his wife care for this tradition and have decided to sway from it. Although I personally like it, and used it for all my kids, I can understand their thinking.
This has however caused a rift, as my mother is insisting they hyphenate, as this will probably be her last grandchild. For this reason, my brother seems to be hoping for a boy, to avoid the hyphenation fight that will almost certainly happen.
Onto actual names, they have a rather short list of ones they like. If it’s a girl, they want the middle name to be Evelyn, after her mother, and if it is a boy, Charles.
their list is as follows:
Girls:
Emma
June
Piper
EllaBoys:
Finn
Max
Leo
NoahWhich of these go best with Miles and Lucy? What about the hyphenation problem? Any ideas? They could really use your advice O wise Swistle, and with the due date coming up in early January we’re running out of time. Please help find a name for my niece or nephew!
Thanks so much
We are starting with the absolute assumption that we are completely ignoring your mother and what she wants other people to name their babies. “Last grandchild” is irrelevant: your brother and sister-in-law have decided not to use this tradition, and THAT is is relevant here. Plus, it would be very odd to NOT follow the tradition for a first girl, and then follow it for the second, leaving one single girl-grandchild out. Your mother can rest happily knowing that all the other of her children’s households, however many that is, DID choose to follow the tradition, and that’s going to have to be good enough for her. Anyway, we’re leaving that whole topic behind: the decision has been made, and it was THEIR decision to make, not your mom’s, as your mom MUST realize (it really seems as if naming their first daughter without a hyphen would have brought the point home)—or if she doesn’t, it may be time for someone to say it to her very firmly before she makes everyone else “deeply upset.” We need make sure we are accurately identifying where the issue is here: your brother and sister-in-law’s choice not to use a naming tradition is not what is causing the rift; your mother’s inappropriate and continued insistence on the tradition (and her apparent threat to cause a fight if she doesn’t get her way, to the extent that your brother and his wife are HOPING FOR A BOY) is what is causing the rift.
MOVING ON.
Looking at the girl list, I’d remove Piper: not only does it seem like an outlier for their usual style, it also repeats the ending of the surname.
All three of the others work well in the set. If it were entirely up to me, I’d probably remove Emma just because it’s so much more common (and was #1 for so long), but I don’t feel strongly about it. The repeating -u- sound of Lucy and June could be a plus or a minus, depending on the beholder. I worry slightly about getting the sounds swapped and saying Juicy and Loon, but that may be my heightened baseline election/pandemic anxiety talking. My own first choice would be June without that issue; with that issue, I’d pick Ella. I like the way all three siblings would have a nice strong L sound, but without the names feeling too similar to each other. Miles, Lucy, and Ella.
From the boy name list, the one that stands out to me as a brother name for Miles is Leo—but I don’t like Lucy and Leo together as much. Noah feels like quite a different style, and shares the popularity issue of Emma. That leaves us with Max and Finn. I personally would choose Finn, but I can see the appeal of Max; it just feels very casual/nicknamey to me next to Miles.
I’m inclined to look a little more for a boy name. Simon is a name that I think goes well with Miles and also with Lucy: Miles, Lucy, and Simon.
Or wait, maybe Theo? Similar to Leo, but better with Lucy. Miles, Lucy, and Theo.
Or Felix: similar to Max, but two syllables and doesn’t repeat an initial. Miles, Lucy, and Felix.
Ooo, Reid! Miles, Lucy, and Reid.
Or Elliot! Miles, Lucy, and Elliot. Like Ella, but longer! (I would not do this same thing with Emma/Emmett: the -tt of Emmett blends into the surname to make it sound like Emma.)
Or Nolan. Similar in sound to Noah, but with a little more heft and a little less usage. Miles, Lucy, and Nolan.
Or Calvin. Miles, Lucy, and Calvin.
Name update:
Hi Swistle!
Name Update here for little brother or sister Banner-with-a-T, sibling to Miles and Lucy. Baby #3 arrived bright and early on the morning of December 31st, and I knew I had to update you right after she was born.
Yes, you heard right, I said she. A beautiful baby girl, Ella Madeleine was born, to wildly excited older siblings and parents.
Once my brother and his wife decided that none of the names they liked went with Evelyn, so they chose Madeleine, another family name, and Ella as her first name.
I am also pleased to report my mother eventually calmed down and accepted the name, and is now completely in love with her new granddaughter. She also sympathized with not wanting Lucy to feel left out as the only non hyphenated girl in the family. Whichever commenter suggested telling her this, thank you, it worked!
On behalf of my brother and sister-in-law I would like to thank you for your assistance in naming their precious girl. They are absolutely in love with both her and her name!
Thanks so much!
I think any of their boy name choices could work but will throw Seth into the mix. I know a sib-set called Seth and Lucy. Seth fits with the siblings as a short name with a “s” sound. Miles, Lucy and Seth.
Totally agree that the mother/grandma’s opinion has nothing to do with anything. She should be quiet about this starting now. Also, I hope she shows ZERO favourtism to the family that followed the tradition – be on the watch for subtle hints of this and nip it in the bud.
From their girl list, I think I like June the best.
I don’t actually see a dilemma here. There are expecting parents with names they like that will serve the baby well throughout its life. No problem whatsoever!
I sympathize with your mom, as a fellow sentimental person who loves generations-old traditions, it’s just that she needs to grieve her feelings privately because everyone else needs to spend their energy preparing for this beloved baby.
I can’t tell if the tradition is to hyphenate first and middle names / use a double first name, or to hyphenate surnames. Truly cannot tell.
Evelyn and Charles would make wonderful first names, too. I really enjoy their style.
That’s what I was trying to figure out too! Now I’m really curious.
The tradition is a hyphenated first name: e.g. Mary-Claire.
For some reason I feel like Dean goes really well with Miles and Lucy.
June is beautiful. So is Leo.
I find Finn and Ella hard to say with the surname, not sure why?
Grandparents don’t get to enforce traditions. I hope your mum is a generally reasonable woman who is fixated on the name because it’s easier than thinking about the pandemic because that will allow you to gently talk with her before she does harm to her relationships over something that is quite silly. I think it would be wrong at this point to leave only one girl in the family without a hyphen name, best if the sisters match.
My favorites with Miles and Lucy are Ella or Max.
I agree with everything Swistle said about the family tradition: their child, their choice. In the natural order of life, your mother’s time on earth with this grandchild will likely be shorter than the lifetime the child will live with her name. It is selfish (imo) of a grandma to insist on others following a naming tradition that she will only be able to enjoy for a relatively limited period of time.
Emma, June, Piper, and Ella are nice names but I don’t especially care for any of them with Evelyn as a middle name. I like Ella Eve (wouldn’t that be a great hyphenated combo?), but not Ella Evelyn. Out of the four names, I like June the best. My only hesitation would be if June nicknamed into Junie. I’m not sure about Lucy and Junie.
For a boy I like Leo best, but I also really like Swistle’s suggestion of Theo. I don’t mind Lucy and Leo together.
Bottom line: I agree with your brother — I hope they have a healthy, handsome baby boy.
Oh I will never stop being depressed by the idea that a mother or mother-in-law feels they have any right to force a name choice onto their grandchild! And I absolutely hate the guilt aspect of this – so what if it’s her last grandchild? She has other grandchildren whose names follow that pattern – that’s great! But even if she didn’t it still wouldn’t be her call to make.
I think of the list of girls names, most aren’t a great match with Evelyn? I like June though.
I would also strike Piper from the girl list as it doesn’t go well with the surname. I like all the others. I had to think whether I liked the double E names and the more I thought about it the more I did, especially Emma Evelyn.
From the boy list, I like Finn and Noah best.
If we’re adding names I nominate Alice, Louise, and Ruth. I don’t mind repeating an initial. Since it would be Lucy and Louise, it could even be their family’s own way of linking the girl names together and it wouldn’t box them in as it’s their last child.
For boys, I was going to say Henry and Silas but Silas Charles is kind of a mouthful, so maybe Simon is better. Or maybe I do like Silas Charles.
I don’t love Finn Banner. With that occupational last name of dying hides, I think it is best to stay away from any names with color associations. The repeating NNs bugs me, too.
Since you are considering using Charles as a a middle for a boy, I wanted to suggest Charlotte. Charlotte Evelyn Banner has a nice ring to it. I also like Eve. I’d be tempted to consider something like Eve Lynette.
Also, please consider using Evelyn for the middle name for a boy, too. Evelyn has been used for boys. Honor names get a pass. Also, I like that the properly behaved grandmother get rewarded… have fun b*tching about that, dear MIL.
I LOVE Swistle’s suggestion of Calvin. That’s my favorite from the boy options. I’m not fond of the repeating L’s for Lucy and Leo or M’s in Max and Miles.
I’m digging Calvin so much, I don’t really want to toss any other boy names out there…but, well…
Grant Charles Banner
Everett (honor for the grandma) Charles Banner
My two kids are Miles and Lucy :) Thinking that my taste must be similar to your brother and sister’s, some of our other top contenders were Simon, Graham, Alice, and Caroline. Of the names on the current lists, my favorites would be Max and June. I love either of the middle names as first names, but if they were to stay in the middle spot, I think my preferences would be:
Simon Charles “B”anner
June Evelyn “B”anner
I think they’ll be able to think more clearly about a name if the rest of the family runs interference with your mom. As her daughter, you are the perfect blocker (sorry for the lame metaphor, my understand of football is limited to Friday Night Lights).
They just need support right now. You can be your brother and SIL’s translator. Try writing a script if this is scary! “Mom, they’ve made up their minds not to hyphenated. Give them a break, she’s about to enter the hellish third tri! With two other kids! During a pandemic! She doesn’t need more stress!” Humor, reminders that you upheld the tradition, and appealing to your mom’s sense of family harmony might help.
I kind of like Jessemy’s idea for grandma. Grandma is definitely overstepping.
As for names, I like Noah best on your sibs’ list for the boys. For my ear, Noah and Miles are both fairly classic American-English names and thus match well.
I agree with Swistle that Piper is an outlier. Ella Evelyn or Emma Evelyn is hard for my *mostly* controlled speech impediment to handle, but the child probably wouldn’t be using both very often. I like both better than June as a first name. Evelyn June, however, makes me happy. Miles, Lucy, and Evelyn’s 1-2-3 syllable set appeals too.
From their lists:
June
I also like the already mentioned suggestion of Alice. I feel like Nora could also work.
I’m not too fond of their boy list with the last name and other siblings, but Swistle’s list is spot on. I’m especially fond of Felix.
I agree with the others about your mother overstepping.
And I hate that they are having to deal with this added stress!
My personal preference is to not reuse first initials in a sibset, so I’d remove Leo and Max. And while I love Piper, it is a bit of an outlier and maybe not the best choice with Banner…although I love Piper Evelyn!!
Love June and am meh on Ella.
For a boy, I like Finn best. Or Finnegan, nn Finn. Noah is alright.
Loving the boy suggestions of Dean, Grant, Reid, Nolan and Calvin.
A few additional girl names that I’ll suggest:
Nora
Juliet
Claire
Cora
Ivy
Daisy
Ruby
Faye
Chloe
Bonnie
Sophie
Audrey
Eliza
Ainsley
Max is too similar to Miles.
My favorite with Charles as middle is Noah Charles.
Miles, Lucy and Noah.
For a girl, Ella Evelyn repeats too many sounds, June Evelyn becomes Junevelyn and Piper repeats the surname ending.
So Emma Evelyn. Or maybe Gemma to avoid Emma’s popularity?
And I forgot to add I agree that if one daughter doesn’t get the naming tradition, the other shouldn’t get it either.
It might help with grandma, explaining that no one wants Lucy to feel excluded, and this daughter doesn’t get an hyphenated name to be “fair” to her older sister. Grandma doesn’t care about any of the other reasons not to meddle, but this one might do it.
Just came on here to say that at the beginning of the post I swooned over the name Lucy Samantha, and the update was just as wonderful with sister Ella Madeline 😍. What beautifully named sisters!