Monthly Archives: June 2020

Baby Name Regrets of the Many-Years-Later Kind

122 Replies

I want to talk today about name regret, but not quite in the way we usually would on a baby-naming blog. Today I would like the subject to be about regrets we still have many years later: not fresh postpartum regrets, or regrets about a name we used two or three years ago that is making things difficult with a current baby, but things we still wish we’d done differently long afterward—even if we don’t necessarily regret the names we actually used, and even if we don’t necessarily know what we would have done instead, and even if we think if we had it to do over we’d probably end up doing it the same way, and even if it’s a mild regret that doesn’t bug us much or often. (Though also if we do and we do and we don’t and it does.)

And this can include anything, small or large: regretting a spelling, regretting using one honor name instead of another, regretting not using a name for a reason that turned out not to matter, regretting a whole naming philosophy—whatever. Feel free to go on at considerable length; I’m planning to.

 

1. I regret using my own family’s surname as only a second middle name. I can defend the decision in part by saying that 21 years ago, and with both of us coming from conservative Christian families, using my surname in any way at all seemed pretty huge and tradition-breaking. I can also defend it in part by saying that I STILL don’t know exactly what I would have wanted to do differently. Do I wish we’d hyphenated? Do I wish we’d used my surname for the kids? Do I wish we’d used a double surname? I don’t know, not really, I just spin through the possible options I didn’t want when I theoretically had the option to choose them.

I guess what I wish is that I hadn’t thought of “second middle name” (not even “middle name” but SECOND middle name, the one that gets left off by default) as such a huge ask (not that Paul made it seem that way, just that to me it seemed like a lot to ask for), and such a huge stance. I guess what I further wish is that we didn’t have a patriarchal naming system that means, for heterosexual couples, that using the father’s surname isn’t even viewed as the giant, enormous concession by the mother it is, but instead is considered the default, the automatic, the not-really-worth-discussing-except-theoretically, the thing many mothers don’t even consider a factor in whether they should get more say in the other names. I am happy every time I see an example of a family where this is not the case.

 

2. I regret not even CONSIDERING using my own first name as my daughter’s middle name, even though I love her actual middle name. But I didn’t even CONSIDER using my name, and I regret that. We considered using Paul’s name as a middle name for the boys, but rejected it because (1) the kids were already getting his surname and (2) my mother-in-law kept “subtly” suggesting it, which turned my heart against it. But we never even DISCUSSED using my first name as a middle name for Elizabeth. It makes me a little weepy to think that she could have had my birth first/last names as her two middles. Furthermore, my mother and I have had many, many, many discussions about how our first names, both of which have the rhythm of my name (Kristen), just don’t WORK as middle names because of the rhythm: that emphasis on the first syllable just makes them really obviously FIRST names, and unworkable as middles. But think about some REALLY REALLY COMMON male middle names that have the same rhythm: Joseph. Michael. Robert. Edward. Andrew. Daniel. David. William. Thomas. Stephen. It’s not the rhythm. The rhythm is not the issue. ALL OF MY BOYS HAVE MIDDLE NAMES WITH THAT RHYTHM. But somehow my name just doesn’t work for some reason, some completely mystifying and absolutely-not-because-it’s-a-girl-name reason, I guess we’ll never know.

 

 

What are some of your regrets?

Baby Girl or Boy Lyberg-but-Starts-with-an-N, Sibling to Grant, William/Will, and Mae

29 Replies

Hi Swistle,

We’re expecting baby #4 in November and I’m having a hard time feeling settled on our girl name option. Hubby is pretty open. Our last name sounds like Lyberg but starts with an N. This will be our last baby.

We have used honor names (that we also just like which feels worth mentioning) for both first and middles of our 3 kids so far: Grant Leonard, William “Will” Daniel, and Mae Pamela. I’d love to continue this tradition not because I feel pressure to but because it just helps a name feel really meaningful to me. I love one syllable, spunky names (or a regularly used nickname like Will) and would prefer not to repeat first initials.

I have two wonderful women I’d love to honor Susan Leigh and Marlene Joanne. So far, so good, right? Wrong.

Susan Marlene called Sue fits my criteria but Sue feels outdated still. Should I love Leigh? It feels a little generic to me. Plus Leigh and Marlene rhyme so that combo would be out and I’m not sure of a good alternative. Leigh Anne? I have a grandma named Louise (also my middle) who goes by Lou so I’d be excited by a first name that easily lended itself to the nickname Lou but I don’t feel as strongly about honoring her as the other two ladies so that’s not a top priority. But doesn’t Lou sound great with my kids’ names? But is it significant enough on its own and what do I do for the middle? I thought I’d hit the idea jackpot with Lucy Susanne (smoosh of Susan and Joanne plus hubby approved) but I feel a little sad that the nod to these two ladies isn’t as obvious as my other honor names are. Also, I wonder if I’d need to spell the nickname Lu to make more sense which then takes away a little significance for me. I grew up with a Louisa so that doesn’t feel right to me. Eloise is cute but is Lou too much of a stretch? I considered Louanne as a smoosh but I’m not sure that’s right for us and Louanne Susan sort of rhymes. Hubby didn’t love Louanne mostly because he works closely with one. My brother’s name is Joe so using Joanne/Joanna called Jo could be confusing. Anne sounds so much like Grant to me. Susan means Lily so I’ve considered Lily Marlene but I’m slightly sad about losing the one syllable first name/nickname pattern I’ve started. I’m nervous to use two middles for the first time after reading from some that it makes paperwork somewhat complicated.

That was a lot, sorry. It feels like a riddle with no good solution in my mind. I’m hoping you and your readers might have some suggestions or encouragement for me that would help me honor the people I love but also give me a first name that fits my established style. I’m tired from overthinking and still have 6 months to go! I’d love some outside input that’s objective and isn’t influenced by hormones.

Boy names we’re considering are Luke, Andrew called Drew, Allen called Len, or Clark.

Thank you in advance!

Marissa

 

I do love Leigh. It’s the kind of name my eye might skip right past in the baby name book, until I encounter a Leigh in real life or in a book, and then suddenly I am thinking “Leigh!! What a lovely, lovely name, so simple and so elegant, and look how nice the letters look, why are we not using it??” I think in part it feels generic because of its familiar use as a middle name—which reminds me of the current situation with the name Rose: extremely common as a middle name, but still fresh and surprising as a first name. Leigh as a middle name feels at this point like a filler; Leigh as a first name is a fresh surprise.

But I also love love love Lou. So perfect! And I LOVE Louise, and I love that it’s your middle name and your grandmother’s name. I would be ready to go straight to this option. I even love the way you’d have two kids with a one-syllable given name and two kids with a one-syllable nickname, and those names alternate, and it would be one boy of each and one girl of each. Totally unnecessary, but satisfying all the same. Grant, William, Mae, Louise; Grant, Will, Mae, Lou. I see what you mean about feeling less strongly about honoring your grandmother—but it’s also one of YOUR names! And I don’t think we use mothers’ names often enough in our culture. It is so, so, so common to use fathers’ names, and still a little remarkable to use mothers’. You don’t say who Susan and Marlene are to you, but my hope is that one of them would be in some way honored by the Louise (e.g., if one of the women is a daughter of your Grandma Lou), to make it obvious that you should use one of the other woman’s names as the middle.

I also love Jo, and I care not two beans that it could be a little confusing that her uncle is also named Joe. If anything, that seems fun and charming and like something that could be a cute bond between them, and it would not be hard to differentiate: he could be referred to as Uncle Joe, and another cute option would be used for her. Maybe Jo paired with her middle name; maybe Jo-bug or Jojo; maybe the full version of her name if you go with Joanne and use Jo as the nickname—there are tons of rich options here.

The name Susan feels not quite ready for a comeback but I think it certainly WILL come back. I might use Sukie as a nickname for it. Or does lengthening it into Susanna dilute the honor too much? But that doesn’t solve the preference for a one-syllable name/nickname.

I think Marlene would work beautifully for a modern child, with the nicknames Marlie or Lena to choose from. But again, that doesn’t give us one syllable.

 

So here are some of the options I like best:

Joanne Leigh, called Jo. To differentiate her from her Uncle Joe, she could be called Jo-Leigh, which sounds like Jolie, which is French for pretty.

Louise, called Lou, with the hope that it is clear which of the two women should now be honored with the middle. I like Louise Susan, I like Louise Marlene, I like Louise Joanne.

Leigh Marlene, or Leigh Joanne. Marlene shares the L-plus-long-E sound of Leigh, but doesn’t rhyme, and I am finding the sound compelling and fun to say. I want to use the whole name when I am sweet-talking her. Leigh Marlene! And I like the way one woman’s MIDDLE name would be used as the FIRST name, and the other woman’s FIRST name would be used as the MIDDLE name; this feels balanced. But Leigh Joanne is a great name and I love it too, and it can also be appealing to think of using both women’s middle names.

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

Name update here! Baby #4 arrived on November 10th and surprised us by being 3 weeks early AND by being a boy! We chose the name Luke Davis (my maiden name) Nyberg and couldn’t be happier with how he finishes out our family: Grant, Will, Mae and Luke (plus our puppy Beau!). Thank you and your readers for all of your great suggestions that helped give me peace of mind about girl names (even though we didn’t ultimately get to use them).

Gratefully,
Marissa

Baby Girl or Boy Peanuts-Character-Who-Plays-the-Piano

19 Replies

Dear Swistle,

I’m due with my first at the end of this week and my husband and I are currently swirling about in a name dilemma vortex. We aren’t finding out the sex and we’re tearing our hair out trying to come up with the one as D-Day approaches (okay, it’s just me! My patient husband seems worn down and is just trying to appease me at this point.)

Our last name is the Peanuts character who plays the piano.

Girl top picks:
– Hadley, nn Haddie
– Savannah, nn Savvy
– Sadie
– Sutton

Boy top picks:
– Theodore, nn Teddy
– Charles, nn Charlie
– Wells
– Macklin or Macallister, nn Mac

I like preppy, strong, and vintage names and my husband has skewed toward more traditional names (specifically for boys) like Benjamin.

I’ll run you through the imaginary problems I have created for each of these top picks—if only so you can get a glimpse inside the prison I’ve designed for myself…

Girl top picks:
– Hadley, nn Haddie (This is my favorite, after Hemingway’s first wife but I don’t love that it sounds like the Kinsleys/Ainsleys/made-up names of the early aughts, versus a historical name with some heft)
– Savannah, nn Savvy (This is my husband’s favorite girl name, but I am slightly hung up on the frilliness of it—although I love the alliteration. We are also not from the South and I worry people are going to think we’re cosplaying or something? Also, is it too 90s?)
– Sadie (This is another one of my all-time favorites. A couple on the outer tier of my husband’s friend circle recently named their baby girl this six months ago, so it feels slightly taken to me, but I keep telling myself that’s so silly. We see these friends less than once per year!)
– Sutton (Love the alliteration and the preppy, androgynous nature—but hung up on the unfortunate nickname of Sut that I feel like could pave the way for middle school and high school teasing due to its awful and misogynistic rhyme.)

Boy top picks:
– Theodore, nn Teddy (So darling, some good heft to it, but is it becoming too popular?!)
– Wells (I love how daring and bold this is—very preppy/presidential to my ear. My husband has come around on it a fair amount but thinks it’s still pretty out there.)
– Charles, nn Charlie (Just worried about it being way too popular!)
– Macklin or Macallister, nn Mac (We both love the shortened nickname Mac, and plan to use this for some child in our future—provided we have a boy—but it doesn’t feel like the first child name to us! We keep picturing a spunky second or third child with this name.)

Thank you so much for your input!

 

I hope we are not too late.

I love very much that you want to use Hadley for Hemingway’s first wife, but I think you are completely right that no one is going to think “Ah, after the first Mrs. Hemingway!” and instead they will think of the contemporary surname names such as Emerson/Kinsley/Everly/Addison. That may be the style you end up going for (many preppy/unisex names are in that category), but it feels like it misses the mark for literary/historical heft. On the other hand, if you might have a Hadley, an Emerson, and an Eliot, it starts to paint a clearer picture. Well, except I still would not have known that Hadley was the name of Hemingway’s first wife.

I’m also with you on Sutton. On the other hand, it doesn’t feel natural to shorten it to Sut, so maybe that wouldn’t be an issue? But perhaps someone who knows a Sutton could give us more information.

Savannah does have a ’90s sound to it: that’s when it hit the Top 100, and it’s been there ever since. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was “TOO ’90s.” To me it goes with Samantha and Courtney and Gabrielle: names that are still being used now, but after several decades of popularity they’ve lost that smack of freshness.

I like Sadie, but not with your boy name options (thinking ahead to future possible brothers): it’s great with Charlie and Teddy and Mac, but then I want her to have a full name too. Sarah is the traditional given name for the nickname Sadie, but is it too difficult to say with the surname? It can also be a nickname for Mercedes.

On to boy names. The name Theodore hit the Top 50 in 2018 (the 2019 Social Security data, which normally would have come out in May 2020, has been delayed because of Covid-19), and my guess is that it is still there. Charles is at the same level of popularity, but holding steady rather than rising: #52 in 2018, #48 in 2017, #51 in 2016, #50 in 2015, #51 in 2014. In fact, I see Charles has been fairly steady for decades. Theodore, on the other hand, spent a few decades in the 200s and 300s, then shot up over the last five years. And Charlotte/Charlie for girls has increased dramatically in recent years.

I notice that Theodore almost repeats the ending of your surname.

Wells with the surname has an institutional/financial/business sound to me. It definitely sounds preppy to me, but not presidential: I’m not seeing many preppy names among the presidents. If you want presidential, I’d go with Theodore, Charles, or maybe something like John, George, Franklin, Warren.

I’m leaving Mac and its long forms for now, because I know what you mean about a name seeming like it’s for a later child.

Okay! So I think the next step is to start looking at some sibling sets. It can feel very odd to try to pick MULTIPLE names when it’s hard enough to name ONE baby, and we’re not going to try to actually do that: we’re just going to PLAY a little. And the reason we’re going to do that is that I see a bunch of repeated sounds in your lists, and I am also seeing some different styles. Widening the view a little (as you’re doing when you think you may want Mac for a future child, or as I did a few paragraphs back when thinking about Sadie with the boy-name list) can actually make it easier to narrow back down. It can also help reduce the possibility of using a name without noticing that it rules out using other names in the future.

For example! You love the alliteration of S- names, and you have several on your list: Savannah, Sadie, Sutton. How do you feel about siblings with the same initial? Some people don’t mind at all; others try very hard to avoid it; some wouldn’t mind two matching initials but not in a row because it would make them feel like they had to continue the pattern; and so on. If you want to avoid it, it’s good to think ahead of time about which S-name is your favorite.

Also! I see several D-sounds, which especially catch my eye because of the D-sound in the surname: Hadley, Sadie, Theodore. If you used one of those names, would a second seem like Too Much? Imagine Hadley [Surname] and Theodore [Surname]. Too much or just right?

If you used Hadley, would it later bother you to have a Charlie? Some people don’t mind a repeated end-sound, especially when one is a nickname; other people try very hard to avoid it. What about Sadie and Teddy? Sutton and Macklin? Wells and Charles? Sadie and Savvy? If using one name rules out using another name, it is good to think ahead of time to make sure you use your favorite.

If you used one of the more common/traditional boy names from your list (Theodore, Charles), does that make you feel at all odd using Wells or Macklin later? Or the other way around: if you use Wells for the first baby, does it make Theodore/Charles feel too traditional for future babies? If you use a unisex preppy name such as Hadley or Sutton for a girl, does that rule out the frillier Savannah for a future girl? if you use Savannah, does it rule out Hadley/Sutton? Some parents want the styles/popularities to be similar, and some care less about that.

Savannah and Sadie go well together; Hadley and Sutton go well together. Which pairing of sisters feels more like Your Kids, the ones you call to dinner and tell to do their homework?

I don’t feel like I should add a bunch of names for consideration when you are so close to delivery. On the other hand, I think I owe the girl-name list some work, after I was not very encouraging about any of the options. I tried to find an assortment of names: some a little prettier, like Savannah; some a little preppier, like Hadley and Sutton; and aiming for a Full Name sound like Theodore and Charles. I admit I went a little overboard, but I was having so much fun:

Arden
Beckett
Bianca
Brighton
Cassidy
Claudia
Cordelia
Darby
Darcy
Delia
Emlyn
Fiona
Flannery
Gwendolyn
Haven
Hillary
Holling
Imogen
Judith/Jude
Keaton
Landry
Lane
Langston
Linden
Lydia
Malone
Marigold
Matilda
Meredith
Merritt
Nadia
Selby
Simone
Sloane
Theodora/Teddy
Waverly
Winifred
Winslow

People feel differently about initials so I didn’t take those into account when making the list, but just to note that some people avoid the initials B.S.

I considered Ellis, but thought with your surname it would be mistaken for Ella.

Do you have any good family surnames you could use? It seems like the names with the best prep cred are the ones that are actual family surnames. And/or the John/Charles/Katherine/Elizabeth names that have been passed down through generations and so have nicknames such as Skip and Chip and Kit and Bitsy.

 

 

 

Name update:

Hi!

Your timing could not have been more perfect. I delivered a healthy baby girl on the morning of Sunday, June 7, and we took the entirety of our hospital visit to deliberate about names. I read your post and all the thoughtful comments aloud to my husband in the hospital room while snuggling our newest addition! It’s a fun memory from her birth.

We ended up choosing the name Savannah. I loved your advice about playing around with sibset names, and that’s exactly what steered us in the direction of Savannah. We thought about the names we’d like to bestow on the rest of our family and how to ensure they’ll all fit together (and which ones we’d be sad if we never got to use). Savannah just felt like a good, strong start—one that left a few different pathways open for future siblings! :)

Thanks again to you and all the commenters for your very thoughtful replies! You pointed out several angles we hadn’t considered, and we are so grateful.

Cheers!