Hi Swistle,
I’m due in 2 weeks with baby #3, a girl, and our last baby. I have a girl named Jane (always goes by Janie) and a Maxwell (nearly always Max). I swore if I ever had another girl, I’d name her Audrey. I’ve loved the name forever.
Somewhere in this pregnancy, though, I also fell in love with the name Nellie. We’d use it as a stand alone, mostly because we don’t love any of the more formal names for which it has been derived. I feel like it works alone as it was in the top 20 in the early 1900s for years. My kids love the name, my husband loves it and really I love it too. But I’m so worried that I’ll regret never using Audrey. I’d bump Audrey to the middle spot, but we’ve already selected a family name for the middle from my husband’s side (which has been largely neglected during the naming of all of our children). Do you or readers have thoughts or clever solutions?
Other considerations: I’m worried about my Janie feeling like her name is “boring”, so I’m resistant to using more flamboyant names (Penelope comes to mind). Our last name starts with M and we already have a Max so I’d like to avoid using other M names.
Thanks!
One possibility is that you love the name Audrey, you have always loved the name Audrey, you WILL always love the name Audrey, and you are just having a little fling with the name Nellie—but will come back to Audrey in the end (though we are running out of time for that to happen). Another possibility is that you love and have always loved and will always love the name Audrey, but now you have discovered the name Nellie and so all names have been re-ranked, and the challenger has defeated the champion.
I’m interested to know what the situation was with your first daughter’s name. Had you always loved the names Jane and Audrey, and it was a huge struggle to decide which name to use first, and you finally decided on Jane but with the comforting thought that you could use the name Audrey next time? Or was the name Jane the clear favorite over the name Audrey? Or was the name Audrey the favorite, but there was another motivating reason (honor name, etc.) to use the name Jane?
All of these things factor into the current decision, and I can’t tell from the letter which things are most likely to be the case. This is the kind of thing that would work best over coffee and doughnuts, while sitting in comfy chairs. We would pick through it piece by piece, and doughnut by doughnut.
It is not uncommon to decide on a name, and then get nearly to the point of using the name and decide against using it. Sometimes it’s that a name seems like a great idea until an actual baby is on the way / almost born, at which point things click into a new kind of reality and the name doesn’t seem right at all. Sometimes it’s that a name is the chosen name for so long, it gets a little…stale, or something. Sometimes a name that would have been EXACTLY RIGHT at one point in time is, for whatever reason, no longer exactly right at a different point in time. Sometimes a better name comes along. It can then feel weird to change one’s mind—and, for some of us, it can feel worryingly RIPE FOR REGRET. What if we wish we’d stuck to our original decision??
And our fears are not totally baseless, because it’s also not uncommon to decide on a name, and then get a crush on another name and go spinning out on that idea for a bit, but then come back with relief to the original decision. I am susceptible to that myself: Paul and I agree on a list of names, we decide on one name from that list—and then I hear a name on TV and OH MY GOSH I LOVE THAT NAME, WHAT IF THAT IS THE NAME?? But soon the name-crush fades and I’m back to our previous choice and glad the baby wasn’t born during that brief interlude when I was entertaining another name.
But sometimes a name turns out to be not a crush but a dark horse. When Paul and I were naming Henry, we were down to two finalists, one of which was the near-certain front-runner but I didn’t want to give up discussing the other option yet, when abruptly a new name came out of nowhere: we had never considered it for any of our babies before. I thought it might just be a name crush, but after awhile it seemed more as if the reason we couldn’t commit to either of the two finalists was that neither of them was Right, and this new name was Right, and we did use it, and I’m glad. (I do think our previous finalist would have been a really good choice too, though, and I don’t think I’d have been sorry if we’d used it.)
I think it can help to differentiate between a DECISION and an INTENTION. You can decide at age 12 to name a future daughter Emily because it is the most beautiful and perfect name in the world—but a couple of decades and an acquired co-parent and several actual pregnancies and a decade of Top-Ten Emilys later, that decision turns out to have been an INTENTION: the elements of the decision were not yet in place at age 12, so no decision was actually made. You weren’t 12 in your situation, but I would still say you intended to name your second daughter Audrey, but now that all the elements of the decision are actually in place, this is when you get to make the actual decision. I don’t think you should feel bound by your earlier intention (if you ARE feeling at all bound by it).
It has helped me, with time, to find that I maintain tender feelings for names we almost used, but in not a single case so far do I wish we’d used the Almost name instead. I think you can pick Nellie/Audrey (whichever you end up preferring) as the given name, and end up just feeling ever-tender toward the name Audrey/Nellie. I have several Almosts on my naming list, and I mention them pretty often on this blog in the hopes that others will use them, and I use a couple of them as pseudonyms for the kids, and I have secret hopes of seeing any of them used for grandchildren—but I don’t have any serious regrets about not using them. More like a fun “That was the name we Almost Used for you!”—but the name we Actually Used seems better.
I think one option is to name her Audrey and nickname her Nellie. I can be on the conservative end of the spectrum about nicknames, and so you might expect me to be opposed to such an idea—but in this particular case it seems like it has the potential to solve the whole thing nicely. Anyone wondering about the connection can be told a cheery “She just SEEMED like a Nellie!”: even I, so conservative about nicknames, would think “Oh! Okay! That makes sense! Sometimes things happen that way!” And the name Audrey doesn’t have other any natural nicknames to fight for the role. And I like the parallel set-up of Jane/Maxwell/Audrey and Janie/Max/Nellie (instead of Nellie being the only one who has just one version of her name), and I like the idea of her ending up with a more formal name if she wants one later on, without you feeling forced to choose a traditional long-form you don’t like much. And the combination Audrey/Nellie sounds right to me in a way that makes me wonder if I once read a book with an Audrey called Nellie. And also I just for whatever reason want you to have BOTH. I am perhaps getting soft in my later years.
Oh wait! I have had another idea, and it is my top favorite: name her Nell. (Unless you already considered that option among other more-formal names for Nellie, but I am imagining you were thinking more along the lines of Eleanor and Penelope, because of the reference to not wanting to get fancier than Jane.) It’s less diminutive than Nellie as a given name, while still letting you use the diminutive as you do with the name Jane/Janie, and it gives her a name/nickname just like her siblings. Jane, Maxwell, and Nell; Janie, Max, and Nellie. My one concern is that this option highlights the similarity between the -ell of Maxwell and the -ell- in Nellie.
And I think it’s worth reconsidering the middle name situation to decide which option the two of you like better / feel better about: using the honor name, or having a way to salvage/save the name Audrey. Sometimes honor names just don’t come out even, and that’s okay, especially if this is a situation where your husband’s family has been honored in everyone’s surname.
Name update:
Hi Swistle,
I wrote you a few weeks ago on my naming dilemma (a sister for Janie and Max). My husband and I poured over the comments for the last few weeks, rereading them in the hospital in the hours following the birth of our little girl. We even briefly considered naming her Anneliese (nn Nell/Nellie).
We finally settled on Nell Audrey Mae Mxxxx. So far, we mostly call her Nellie Mae or Nellie girl. We love the simplicity/dignity of Nell and the sweetness of Nellie. We weren’t sure about having two middle names, but Audrey and Mae are family names from opposite sides, and the longer length of the double middle seems to balance the shortness of Nell. Thank you so much to you and your readers for all the help and input!
I sort of feel I should just say Swistle’s given a lot of good advice about how to explore your feelings and leave it that. But I’m on Team Audrey for two reasons. I trust that loved-it-forever history more than a sudden crush, and Nellie seems kind of slight for a given name to me. How would you feel about Eleanor or Penelope as a middle with the occasional nickname Nellie? Or in fond, silly moments, Audrey Nellie?
On the other hand, I feel compelled to mention a lot of the nicknames I thought I’d use when I was pregnant kind of fell by the wayside pretty quickly so you might not use both even if you could.
OMG Audrey Nell! Audrey Nell Surname
Are there any family names that could possibly be shortened to Nell/Nellie?
I love Helen NN Nellie… I’m assuming LW has already considered this and didn’t care for it but… just in case?
Yes! The LW says she doesn’t like the formal Nell names but it’s a bit hard not to suggest them, because… what if you didn’t think of this one? Helen and Jane, Nellie and Janie. It just sounds perfect!
I love Helen and Jane too! Nellie and Janie!
As a given name, Audrey seems like a better match for your other kids’ names than Nellie does. If you hadn’t already selected a middle name, I would suggest Audrey Nell with a nickname of Nellie–like the above poster, I would prefer to have Nellie as my own optional nickname than as the name on my birth certificate (especially considering the name is sometimes used as a slur for a gay man, or a reclaimed term of affection within the gay community).
Like Swistle, I think you can give your younger self a break on this–the fact that you “swore” you would name a future daughter Audrey does not a binding contract make. That said, I think it’s a beautiful choice and I love the group it forms with Jane and Maxwell.
I really, really wanted to name our daughter Audrey, but gladly, happily ‘settled’ for Jane. So I am excited on your behalf that you get the opportunity to use both names! But Nell is also so so sweet, I can’t decide whether I would vote to name her Audrey but call her Nellie, or just go with Nell, I am no help! But loving your choices!
Sometimes a name can be your favorite name ever, and also not be the name of your child. And that’s ok! You can keep Audrey as your favorite name even if you don’t use it. (Bonus: you’ll never end up saying AUDREY through gritted teeth as you fantasize about living on a deserted island.)
(I also like Nell, nicknamed Nellie.)
I would like to cast a strong vote for the name Ellen, which happens to be my own name; I can attest that it is a good name to have. Nellie is a traditional nickname for Ellen (I believe there is an Ellen-nicknamed-Nellie in Wuthering Heights), and I think sisters Jane and Ellen, going by Janie and Nellie, is AMAZING.
I just wanted to chime in with another “formal” name with nn Nellie. My great-aunt was named Avanelle (pronounced ahvah-Nell) and I always thought it was a beautiful and unusual name. And my grandma was Janie, so it’s a great sib-set to my ear. If I would have known her better before her death, I probably could have lobbied more effectively to use it for our daughter’s middle.
Oh! I love Avanelle. That was my mother’s middle name, and because she was Southern it was shortened to Nell and added to her first name. One of my daughters has Avanell as her middle name, and now one of my granddaughters shares it. My grandmother’s name was Nella but she was always called Nellie.
I was in the same boat with baby #2 – our first girl.
I have a name I’ve always loved.. It’s my mom’s middle name (she goes by a nick-name of it – think Mary Elizabeth = Beth). I named my babydolls this. As a pre-teen/teenager I’d try out the name with every Crush or Boyfriend’s last name. Hubby was on board. It was our choice for baby #1 (who turned out to be a boy). So when we found out baby #2 was a girl it seems obvious what we’d name her.
But, we didn’t name her that. Somewhere along the way I started thinking about another name. A name that I always thought pretty but plain (In a similar vein to Jane, Marie, Lynn etc). And it just felt right. It felt like this baby. I can’t describe it any other way.
I still love the old name. I still dream about naming a baby that(but we are most likely done). It still warms my heart to hear it etc. BUT my daughter is not that name. The name we gave her suits her perfectly. I cannot image her with the other name. I do not regret naming her a single bit.
So my vote is to go with Nellie. If it has been on your mind long enough that it is not a just a name crush, then don’t write it off just because it is not Audrey.
I think Audrey nn Nellie is a great solution. I went to school with a Heather nn Nellie and there was never any reason given as to why that’s her nickname. It just is.
I also like the idea of Nell as the actual name if you decide to go that route. I don’t think it would bother me to be the only kid without a formal name and a nickname, but you never know how a particular child will feel about it.
My thought process was the same as Swistle’s. Sometimes when a name comes out of nowhere it’s a passing crush and sometimes it’s more like kismet, as if now that this baby is on their way suddenly the perfect name presented itself to you. From a letter it’s hard to tell which one it is but you did leave a clue: I’d bump Audrey to the middle spot, but we’ve already selected a family name for the middle from my husband’s side… You said you’d bump Audrey. Not you’d put one in the middle name slot. I think Nellie has become the winner and you’re having trouble letting go of Audrey because you held onto it for so long. I agree with Swistle that almost names will always hold a special place in your heart, especially one that you dreamed about so long. But it sounds to me like Audrey is the almost name.
I also wondered where Audrey was on your radar with Jane. If you chose Jane over Audrey and intended to use Audrey next I think it could contribute to veering away from Audrey. I love all my daughter’s almost names.. And I thought I’d use her list of almost names and chose one for a future daughter’s name. But once I became pregnant I felt, well, it wasn’t good enough for Lucille… so as much as I love it, I don’t want to give this child a name I didn’t like quite as much as her sisters.
Lastly, though I think Nellie is fine as a standalone… If you like Penelope or any other longer form I wouldn’t stay away from it for fear Jane will feel her name is plain. Jane’s beauty is in it’s simplicity. Penelope’s beauty is in it’s extravagance. Neither is better than the other. They’re just different. And sure, at 12 years old when they’re just looking to complain about something, Janie might moan about her boring name and Penelope might moan about her frilly name… But they’re both gorgeous and I don’t think in the long run either would have any qualms with their name as a result of your sibling set.
I particularly like the idea of pairing Nellie with a more formal name: Nell or Ellen or Helen all seem less nicknamey and like really good matches for Jane. I really like having lots of name choices to call my kids, and I think you would get lots of choices that way! Audrey is a great choice, too.
I have never commented before but I am bursting to say… name her Audrey Nell! It goes great together, and gives you both options.
As I was reading this post I decidedto comment on here just to offer Nell with the nickname Nellie, but swistle has the same idea! That would definitely be my vote.
Since you have absolutely loved Audrey forever and you intend for this little girl to be your last, my vote is to go with Audrey as the first name. Because you have strong feelings for Nellie (Nell?) and you mention already having a middle, my suggestion is to give your daughter a hyphenated or double middle name.
I have a double middle name myself (Jean-Marie), and sometimes it sounds and look nice.
Audrey familyname-Nell, nn Nellie
Audrey Nell-familyname, nn Nellie
If your chosen middle does not flow well with Nell, perhaps it may with a longer name that can be shortened to Nellie: Nella, Ellen, Helen, Helena, Eleanor, Anneliese, etc.
I was coming to say the same thing:
Audrey Nell HonourName Surname
Audrey HonourName Nell Surname
You could hyphenate or not depending on what the Honour Name is. Any chance you can tell us the honour name you have in mind?
You may not like the asymmetry of the 3rd child having 2 middles when your first two don’t. But it could be spun as part of The Naming Story and something that helps the last born feel extra special…”we had so many names we loved that we just had to give you an extra name!”
Oh! – the story could be: Mom has always loved Audrey, Honour name is from your dear Dad, and your siblings just loved Nellie so the whole family got together and had a part in naming you.
My favorite idea would be a more formal name that Nellie can be a nickname for. I’m guessing you’ve already considered all the names that nick to Nellie, and several are mentioned here — Penelope, Eleanor, Helen, and Ellen — but I wanted to offer a few others others, just in case: Elizabeth, which is a fantastic sister name for Jane; Elise or Eliza, which have more of an Audrey vibe to me; and Noelle (I know a little Noelle nn Nellie). I’m also totally on board with Swistle’s idea of Audrey nn Nellie!
I agree with a prior commenter that the fact you said you’d bump Audrey to the middle is a pretty strong sign of where your heart is on this one. I personally love the simplicity of Nell, especially with Jane.
Jane, Maxwell, and Nell. Janie, Max, and Nellie. I love it!
I would definitely go with Audrey: it’s beautiful, has a great namesake (Audrey Hepburn) and pairs well with Maxwell and Jane.
Besides, for me Nellie – although cute – feels like a nickname rather than an actual name. It would be a great choice if your older kids were named just Janie and Max, but Nellie don’t feel like a good match with Jane and Maxwell. (But maybe it’s just me – I’m personally not a huge fan of using nicknames as actual names. A more formal name is just more versatile: it allows you to decide on your own which form of your name you prefer depending on your personal preferences, age, current situation, etc.)
So, as already mentioned here: Audrey Nell nn Nellie would be perfect!
Nellie can also be a nickname for Helen; my Great Aunt Nellie was. Jane, Maxwell, and Helen. Janie, Max, and Nellie.
Also an option as a long form of Nellie, Helena.
People are always going to be divided on one name verse another and for a myriad of good reasons.
For what it’s worth, I feel Nell takes Jane out of any perceived ‘boring-ness’ and highlights her spare, classic elegance. In my view, Jane and Nell (Janie & Nellie) stand side by side and help each other shine in a way Jane and Audrey don’t seem to.
Another alternative to Nell for a formal ‘Nellie’ name is simply Nelle if you prefer that spelling.
Nelle is my mom’s name, and I’ve always loved it. It feels both simple and fancy to me, elegant but not frilly. That would get my vote. I’m with the many others who jumps to all the many names of which Nellie is a derivative. Like… Cornelia! and all the others from above. I hope it’s not annoying that we are all suggesting this when you said that you did not like the idea of doing it this way.
This resonates with me. I had always planned to name my first daughter Alice. Then, while I was pregnant with my first child (sex unknown until birth), I just knew that her name was Nina. I spent the rest of the pregnancy pretty sure that I was choosing the right name but wondering if it was just a phase as Swistle mentioned. For what it’s worth, I have no regrets over not using Alice. I think Audrey and Nellie would both make excellent names. I hope you come to a confident decision!
It’s interesting how people have different perspectives on naming. A couple people commented that Audrey fits the sibling set better but I totally disagree. I think Janie, Max, and Nellie sounds more natural than Janie, Max, and Audrey. Audrey doesn’t sound classic enough to me.
I also think that sometimes babies name themselves to a certain extent. My husband and I had long agreed on a name for a boy but then when I got pregnant it somehow didn’t feel like his name so we went with something else And my third child’s name is one I never remotely considered in all of my years of daydreaming about names and then naming actual babies. In fact, it’s a name I sort of disliked when I first heard it as a kid. But then about two months before she was born it popped into my head and it felt like the right name. I have no idea why, but she is almost 1 now and it is absolutely her name and I have no regrets using it. I wonder if the same thing has happened to you with Nellie.
Wow, I’m overwhelmed by all your thoughtful comments and replies! The middle name we’ve settled on is Mae (family name on my husband’s side). I hadn’t thought of naming her Nell, though the Maxwell-Nell similar sound does bother me a bit. I will hopefully have a few more weeks to percolate on all of it before we need to make a decision.
Oh also, in regard to naming Jane–Jane is my own middle name, so I’ve had a lifelong fondness for it. Audrey was most definitely my second choice then, but I decided not to put it in the middle as I’d hoped to use it for a girl in the future.
We don’t have children yet, but we’ve waited so long that our former #1 boy name choice now feels boring to us, so I feel your pain! I’m wondering if I’ll always feel sad about not using or it just served its purpose as sort of a fantasy name for a theoretical child and I can happily move on! For what it’s worth, Audrey is beautiful and charming and I bet you would not regret your decision of using it.
As for Nellie — Jane is a short name, yes, but I think elegant and timeless enough to hold up next to a longer name that has the nickname Nellie. My niece is Penelope nn Nellie and her sisters have one-syllable names, actually. But I’d prefer Eleanor or Helen to Penelope for your sibling set. I’m also firmly in the camp of always having the longer formal name even if a child only goes by a nickname. I think most people would assume Nellie is a nickname, anyway.
Nellie Mae is not my favorite–reminds me of Sallie Mae, Fannie Mae, and the other government-backed lenders. It also gives a country feeling that could be nice to have as an option, but it might be nice to have other options too (imagine her moving to Nashville for a music career and it’s perfect; imagine her moving to New York City to be a hard-charging prosecutor and it won’t help her fit in). But you may not mind, or you may even like, how it sounds! With Jane and Maxwell, and with the middle name, I prefer either Audrey or some of the longer names (especially Helen) with nn Nellie.
I find this conversation fascinating and helpful, because I am also expecting Baby Girl #2 and didn’t get to use my long-standing favorite (Daphne) with my first daughter. (The name we did use is totally my daughter and is a perfect name for her, but I think she could easily have been a Daphne, too). At the time I was very hopeful I’d get to use it if I ever was blessed enough to have a second girl, and here I am having another and it looks like I won’t be using it again! It appears to be a name I will love and be incredibly excited about hearing on other little girls, but it won’t be one of our daughters’ names, and I am coming to peace with it.
For what it’s worth, I work with a Nelly, and as far as I know, that’s her given name. I never knew it was standardly used as a nickname. It seems like a perfectly fine given name to me! Maybe the Nelly spelling seems more substantial than Nellie? Anyway, the Nelly I know lives and works in a progressive West coast city and is quite successful and well-known in her field. It hasn’t hindered her at all!
What a great discussion!
I am personally convinced that the reason ideas about names change during pregnancy is because you are already starting to get to know your kid… Are they mellow, a night owl, karate kid, a boss (aka will not settle down without fill-in-the-blank craving being satisfied) or do they love music? You start to get this sense of who is in there. The indecision comes from trying to adjust that new knowledge to the image of the previously completely hypothetical kid that you imagined and named pre-pregnancy. It is the first parenting lesson — control is an illusion so celebrate the beauty of the unexpected.
So, you always imagined an Audrey but now she is feeling more like a Nellie. Doesn’t mean that she isn’t also Audrey. I like the idea of 3 names. Think that is the best of all worlds. And heck, last babies deserve to be a little special too. She was always going to get the Round Two name just because she was born later. So if she is the only one with three names, that’s a-okay.
I think Swistle’s suggestion of Nell is amazing. Sweet and spare like Jane but gets you to Nellie.
As for the Maxwell/Nellie -ell thing, that feels like a non-issue to me. Jane/Nellie both have -ne. And Janie and Nellie both end in -ie. So when you use nicknames, the sisters sounds closer and formal names bring the baby closer to her brother. It is actually quite nice that it is so balanced.
I say go with all three names in whatever order sounds best with your last name! And embrace the journey that brought you to here.
Good luck!
Oh, one last point. There is a French name that I adore… Maelle. Audrey Maelle nn Nellie? Just a thought.
I think the honor name of Mae is one that would take hyphenation very well, if you were inclined in that direction.
Helen Audrey-Mae
Audrey Ellen-Mae
Nell Audrey-Mae
For day-to-day, you could use Audrey or Nellie or a combination for any of the above.
I must be the only one who hears the phrase “nervous Nellie” on a regular basis, used in the same way as “Debbie downer.” I vote for Audrey Mae.
I call my second daughter Nell and Nellie. In her case, they’re nicknames. She goes by her full name at daycare. When she starts kindergarten, I’ll give her the option of choosing her full name or Nell/ Nellie as her preferred name. I LOVE Nell and Nellie as nicknames, but only as nicknames. One thing that would bother me about Nell as a full name is the lack of meaning. It truly is just a nickname and has no meaning. Name meanings matter a lot to me. Still, Nell as a middle name or even a first name would truly be fine for most people (if the meaning thing doesn’t matter to you). I love Nell/ Nellie. I think I’ll cast my vote for Audrey Nell as the full name- best of both worlds.