Hi Swistle!
I wrote to you when we were pregnant with our second (baby boy, Theodore). We are currently expecting our third in September, and we are fairly certain of the baby’s first name for each gender. However, I wanted an opinion on the middle.
Our 4 year old daughter is Adeline Elizabeth (Elizabeth for my middle as well as my mom). Our 2 year old son is Theodore (nicknamed Theo) Justus (for my dad and my grandpa). When we were pregnant with Theo, my husband didn’t want a namesake (other than giving our kiddos his surname). Since then, he’s changed his mind and would like to pass down his name (Ryan) as a middle. I’m completely fine and supportive of that. If it’s a boy, his name will be Henry (nicknamed Hank) Ryan.My question is do you think, if this baby is a girl, would she mind having Ryan as a middle name? Her first name would be Eloise. So, full name would be Eloise Ryan.
When I try to imagine having Justus (my dad’s name) as my middle name, I’m not sure if I’d like it (I’m actually fairly certain that I wouldn’t like it). However, Ryan seems to be an easier name for a girl to carry than Justus. We’ve always preferred traditionally feminine names for girls, so maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time with this.
We would like more kids (ideally 4 total), so it’s possible we could get another future son. However, nothing’s guaranteed, and this is important to my husband. What do you think? Should we use Ryan as a middle regardless of gender for #3?
Thank you for any advice or opinions,
Katie
I think part of the issue is that Ryan is an easier name for a girl to carry than Justus (though I think Justice would work nicely for either boys or girls), but I think an even bigger part of the issue is that naming trends have changed to better allow for it. When I was a child, I would have been fairly appalled to have a “boy name” as my middle name, but then as I grew up there was that whole fad of girls on TV being called Sam and Alex and Teddy and Frankie, and then the whole thing felt different. I think NOW if I had a “boy name” as my middle name, I’d think it was pretty cool—depending on the middle name (e.g., Wesley yes, Robert no, James yes, Paul no). In any case, the name Ryan is familiar enough for girls that it wouldn’t surprise me at all as a middle name even WITHOUT the honor name situation, and I think it sounds nice with Eloise.
But if you’re quite sure you’d like to have another baby after this one, I think I would save the name Ryan. My reason has less to do with whether Ryan works for a girl, and more to do with keeping sibling names comparable. If Adeline Elizabeth has a fully feminine name with honor names after women, and Theodore Justus has a fully masculine name with honor names after men, it feels most pleasing to me that a baby girl named Eloise should have a fully feminine name with honor names after women. (I suggest Katherine, so that each daughter has one of your names.) I’m not saying it’s crucial, or that I think it’s a huge big deal—only that it would be my own choice because of being pleasingly consistent. If this baby is a girl, and then you are expecting a fourth child who will likely be your last child, THEN I’d say use Ryan as the middle name no matter what—because at that point, the part about being pleasingly consistent loses out to the priority of getting to use the name.
Name update:
Hi Swistle!
Thank you for your advice and everyone’s input on our middle name question. We decided to go for it and use my husband’s name regardless of gender. We did end up with a little girl, so Eloise Ryan was born on September 26. We all like her a lot. :)
Thanks again!
Katie
I knew two girls growing up who were named Ryan(e). They are in their thirties now. To me, Ryan works well for a girl’s middle name, but I’m suspecting you wouldn’t want it for your middle name and that is why you are hesitating.
I agree with Swistle about Ryan not being a problem for a girl’s middle name, but disagree about waiting for the next baby. If this is important to your husband you should do it this baby, as we can never know whether another baby will actually happen (you and your husband could decide six months after this baby is born that nope never again, or you could have fertility issues on the last one, or you could just never fully embrace the ‘right time’ of it and end up with a beautiful family of three.)
I don’t mean this to be a negative comment at all, but if you and your husband agree to him passing on his name, then I think you should do it this time. Good luck!
I second this! We never know what is going to happen in the world of babies & fertility, and iif this is important, then use it now. I think Ryan is a great middle name and very explainable.
I would use Ryan now. I’d prefer lack of symmetry between daughters middle names vs regret over missing an important honor opportunity.
You could make it your husbands call since it will be his regret.
I’m with those saying use it. Lots of girls in my son’s grade (he’s 14) with the name Ryan.
I’m 36 and I knew a few woman named Ryan(n) that are my age or a few years older. I loved the name as a little kid and for a long time thought I’d want to use the name for daughters of my own.
So I’d vote that it is perfectly fine to use as a middle name. Especially as an honor middle name.
If you’re feeling ooky about it, maybe Ryanne?
Personally, I agree with Swistle and would probably wait to use it for the next baby IF you guys are POSITIVE you want a 4th. However, I think Ryan sounds nice with Eloise, as well.. Basically, you can’t go wrong. Maybe let your husband decide if he wants to use it for this baby or wait for the next, IF this one ends up being a girl, that is. You could have a little Henry Ryan and problem solved!
I think Ryan can be a great middle name for a girl, particularly since it’s a clear honor name. I think it’s up to your husband whether he’d like to use it for this baby regardless of gender. I agree with previous posters that if your husband wants to and you’re okay with it, you should use it for this baby, because you never know how family plans could change once he/she arrives.
It reminds me of Meg Ryan and I love it.
YES! I thought the same thing.
I’ve also known girls named Ryan, one who spelled it Riane. So I think it works fine as a middle.
You could also go with:
Eloise Ryanne
Eloise Riana
Eloise Raeanne/Rayanne
Eloise Rina
Eloise Riley/Ryely/Reilly (don’t know if you consider that any more feminine than Ryan)
I vote for using it now! One never knows what the future holds. Also, I knew a Rebecca with the middle name Scott through my primary education and high school and we thought it was cool. I think it was for an uncle. Good luck!
I think Ryan makes a beautiful and touching middle name if this baby is a girl. There is something I like about naming a daughter after her father rather than waiting to see if there is another son in the future to pass it along. In terms of style, you haven’t really set a pattern yet with feminine middle names with girls, but doing it for two daughters and then diverging with a third would maybe feel weirder than having one named after you and the other after your husband. However, if you read all these positive comments but still don’t feel comfortable, I think it would be fine to tell your husband that the next boy can have the middle name Ryan. You both should like and be comfortable with the name, even if everyone at Swistle loves Eloise Ryan!
I just have to add to the chorus: I think Eloise Ryan is beautiful! I disagree that this daughter’s name is a mismatch to your first daughter. There are all sorts of ways to categorize names and all middle names being family names is legitimate.
The *only* reason this is ok for me is because it is an honor name in the middle spot. Otherwise I’d be inclined to hem and haw and nod to theory of current trends while asking you if you would ever in any circumstance give your sons the middle name of Katie, or Kate or Kathryn or Kathleen. Take it to an extreme example, what if you died in childbirth? Would Ghost You be warmed by a son named Henry Kate? If the answer is no, then I strongly suggest you ponder what type of sexism you may be passing down to your children. Genders ARE different, but they aren’t unequal.
heh, I actually had similar thoughts. which just ruins my feminist self because i love the sound of masculine names on girls. then again, i am partial to feminine sounding names on boys, but if i’m being fully honest with myself, i know the “line” for what is an “acceptable” cross-gender name is much stricter for boys than girls (like … i kind of like mackenzie or courtney or vivian for a boy, but not aurelia or isabella… whereas i wouldn’t really be put off by paul or robert as girls).
anyway, because there are other non-patriarchal threads through here (a bunch of mom’s-side names packed in), i’m okay with it.
plus i also fairly live-and-let-live when it comes to name choices ;)
I love Eloise Ryan, I think Ryan totally works for a girl, and I completely agree with all who say use it now. I’m also noticing that all the honor names you’ve used have been from your family’s side (other than the children carrying on your husband’s last name), so I like that this evens it out a little bit.
Eloise Ryan is perfect. Don’t wait- you never know what might happen, and this would make Dad happy. I know a female Ryan in her mid-thirties, so this seems fine to me.
My sister (mid 20s) is named E____ Ryan. She loves her middle name and her first is very close to Eloise. It honors a Rhiannon but my mom shortened it to her nickname to flow with the first name better.
I say go for it.
I would have loved to have an honor name after my dad. I also think you’re in a great place to make the middle name “theme” honor names and not get hung up on feminine names. Perhaps I would feel different if we were discussing first names, but it really doesn’t bother me. Also, want to add I had a female cousin named Ryan and I was always jealous of her very cool, not feminine name growing up :)
I think Ryan works just fine for a female or male middle name, although if you have a daughter I suspect a lot of people will assume that it is a surname-as-middle (I know a handful of people with the last name Ryan, so it seems common as both, and surname as middle is common to me.) My BIL is named something like John Steven Smith, and Steven was his mom’s maiden. Anyway, I don’t think it will matter to be honest if people assume Ryan was a surname, but perhaps some thing to make 100% certain wouldn’t bother your husband. (I just spent a very long time talking about something that would not bother most people, sorry!)
For pleasing symmetry to me, I would be curious about using your husband’s middle name, since oldest daughter has your middle name. But that would be my preference.
Just today I saw a girl named Riyan. I thought it was really pretty.
Eloise Riyan
For my third I wanted to honor my dad. His name is Mark Edward. Our third turned out to be a girl so we used my dads name mark and my husbands grandma, Rita and used Marita as her middle name. I wanted to use Edward for a boy middle. Then our fourth was a boy and I used Edward for his middle name. I didn’t know if we would have a fourth or another boy and I really wanted to use an honor name for my dad and just went with it. Yet I really wanted to use Edward. So you could use a girly version for a girl now and save the name Ryan if you do have another boy.
I grew up with a girl named Ryan and another whose middle name was Ryan (both now in their 30s). I think it’s beautiful. Go for it!
I love the name Eloise Ryan! I think it totally works for a little girl’s middle name. I thought of E and Sloane’s baby in the Entourage movie, they named her Ryan. I also knew a girl in college that was named Ryan but I think she spelled it Ryanne or something similar. I wouldn’t mess around with different spellings, that always gets confusing. I say, go for it!
Vote to go for it! I’m a big fan of middle names with meaning… Daddy’s little girl and all is a great back story.
Plus I’ve known girls (first) named Ryan, Ryann AND Weslea, and they all rock. This great name combo gives your little one the option to be sweet and frilly or spunky and strong- or both!
I think you should go with Ryan and definitely use it for this baby. If I saw it as a girl’s middle name I would actually assume it was a surname, as I’ve encountered a good amount of Ryan families in my area. And even if I knew it was meant as a first name I wouldn’t really think twice about it, so many times have I heard Ryan/n used as a girl’s first name.
Eloise Ryan is beautiful. Why wait? I would not mind a masculine middle name that was an honor name. Bonus that Ryan is not totally unheard of for females. If hub’s was named Edward, I’d suggest some feminine forms, but Ryan, pfffgh, just go right ahead
So lovely!