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Update (and photo!) on Baby Girl or Boy W. Sibling to Atticus and Elm and Baby Girl or Boy W., Sibling to Atticus and Elm 2!

Nicole writes:

We are on our Third Baby (yikes) and having a precious baby girl. We are between Caroline and Vivienne? I love both names and am caught in a pickle:). Caroline is classic but Vivienne is fresh and has a great nickname Vivi. Our boy (4) is name Cole Brian and daughter (2) is name Payton Charlotte. Would LOVE any help/suggestions!!!! Thanks SO much!!!

Both choices seem at odds to me with the style of your first two children’s names. Cole and Payton are both contemporary surname names; Vivienne and Caroline are both first names of long standing. Vivienne and Caroline are both currently exclusively feminine, while your first daughter’s name is unisex (in 2012, the name Payton was given to 2918 new baby girls and 587 new baby boys; the spelling Peyton was given to 4447 new baby girls and 2065 new baby boys). These aren’t the sorts of things that MATTER-matter, but it’s something to take into account if you’d like the sibling names to coordinate; your first two children’s names coordinate very well.

Since Payton’s middle name Charlotte coordinates in style with Vivienne and Caroline, I’d be more inclined to put those on the list of middle-name contenders, and look for something else for the first name. Without a surname it’s difficult to suggest possibilities, but this is the sort of style I’d be looking at:

Avery Caroline; Cole, Payton, and Avery
Bailey Vivienne; Cole, Payton, and Bailey
Brooklyn Josephine; Cole, Payton, and Brooklyn
Ellery Vivienne; Cole, Payton, and Ellery
Hadley Caroline; Cole, Payton, and Hadley
Kinley Margaret; Cole, Payton, and Kinley
Morgan Violet; Cole, Payton, and Morgan
Rowan Abigail; Cole, Payton, and Rowan
Ryleigh Vivienne; Cole, Payton, and Ryleigh
Sydney Caroline; Cole, Payton, and Sydney
Taylor Vivienne; Cole, Payton, and Taylor

If I were choosing between Caroline and Vivienne, I’d be more likely to choose Vivienne: its current usage feels recent, and more compatible in style with Payton and Cole; Payton and Vivi seem more like sisters to me than Payton and Caroline do. It also catches my attention that Cole and Caroline have a lot of letters in common.

I might also suggest Vienne or Vienna instead of Vivienne: it seems less frilly, and you could still use the nickname Vivi. Cole, Payton, and Vienne.

Alyssa writes:

We are having our third and last child in early June. I am having a terrible time making a final decision on what his name should be. Our oldest is a girl, Gretchen Elizabeth, and our son to be middle is a boy, Adam Gray. I would the new little one to have a four letter name in following with my father, Gary, fil, Kurt, and husband, Leif. I am also thinking a two syllable name would sound nice since our other two have them. Right now Ezra John is the front runner but I have told a select few this name and their facial responses weren’t what I was looking for. Middle name will most likely be John or Paul after family on my husband’s family. I also like Bode and Rory which my husband is not as fond of. Any help in naming this Olsen baby is greatly appreciated.

Maggie writes:

We are expecting our second baby boy in about 5 weeks and are still undecided on a name! Both of our sons will have our last names as a hyphenated last name. It sounds like Nay-Lean, but with an “M” for the first letter. Our first son’s name is Oscar with a middle name Meng. We chose Oscar because we both liked the name and Meng is my husband’s father’s name. My middle name is a family name and it’s important to me to continue that tradition with my sons.

My main requirement for Oscar’s name was that it (or the nickname that he would actually be called) be two syllables. In my mind, this helps balance a somewhat awkward hyphenated last name. This eliminates a ton of boys names which are often shortened to one-syllable nicknames. I would like to continue this requirement for the new baby, although I find myself waivering on it a bit (or a lot) as we look for names. I’m also looking for a name that makes Oscar sound less “hipster” and more serious/literary/old-fashioned, rather than more hipster. I generally don’t like the trend toward surname-type boys names like Beckett or Cooper. I love 3-syllable names and my husband seems drawn to names that end in “S.” We never got too far down the road of girl’s names, but my favorite is Elsa, short for Elizabeth, which is a family name.

Here are our current contenders for first names:

Theodore (nn Theo): This was my first choice, until some friends of ours named their son Theo in October. My husband says it’s off the table and I might agree. I think Oscar and Theo go well together with a similar historic vibe and I also like that Theo has an “O” sound but doesn’t start with a vowel.

Harry: My new (somewhat reluctant) front runner. I think Harry is cute and goes well with Oscar, but worry about the “hairy” association. Also not sure I want to name him Harry as a standalone name. We could use the family name Haymond (see below) with Harry as a nickname, but I don’t love the name Haymond. My husband likes Harrison, but I don’t love it because its a surname. Any other creative ways to get to Harry? I floated Harry as a (totally made-up) nickname for Abraham, but my husband thinks its too far-fetched.

Augustus: Probably my husband’s first choice and I think the nn Gus is adorable. Husband prefers Auggie, which I like but worry it’s too vowel heavy with Oscar.

Leo: This was one of my close runners up for Oscar, but I think it’s become too popular for us in the last few years.

Atlas: My husband first suggested this name as a joke, but he’s become more serious about it. I think it’s both too unusual and too weighty (pun intended) for a name.

Julius: My husband’s suggestion. I think it’s okay, but like Julian better.

Thaddeus: My husband’s suggestion of a combination of Theodore and Atlas. Don’t love the nn Thad though. Could maybe go for Tad.

For the middle name, I would like to choose something from my mom’s family. These are the options (we’re also open to any of these as a first name if we could find a more wearable nickname):

John: my maternal grandfather’s name
Haymond: my maternal grandfather’s middle name
West: my mother’s last name
Michael: my uncle’s name
Clarence: my mother’s grandfather’s name
Rudolph: my mother’s other grandfather’s name
Wade: my mother’s uncle’s name
Klipfel: my grandmother’s maiden name

I think we need strong opinions and more suggestions! I feel like we’re no closer to a name than we were when we first found out it was a boy a few months ago. Help!

Prince Harry’s given name is Henry, and in fact the name Harry began as a nickname for Henry. Henry (Harry) Nay-Lean; Oscar and Henry/Harry. Then if the “hairy” issue DID become a problem, you could easily fall back on Henry, or on Hank. And Henry can feel quite literary: Henry James, O. Henry. It may be too popular for you, however: it was #43 in 2012 (for comparison, the name Oscar was #177; Leo was #134).

I’d add Abram. It’s not very common (#392 in 2012); it’s two syllables; and it has the great nicknames Abe and Bram. I wonder, though, if it merges with the M- of the surname.

Atlas and Julius make me think of Silas. Silas Nay-Lean; Oscar and Silas.

Julius and Leo make me think of Louis. Louis Nay-Lean; Oscar and Louis. I really like that one.

Augustus and Atlas make me think of Angus. Angus Nay-Lean; Oscar and Angus/Gus.

Augustus and Atlas also make me think of Atticus. Atticus Nay-Lean; Oscar and Atticus.

Or Douglas. Douglas Nay-Lean; Oscar and Douglas.

Or Alistair. Alistair Nay-Lean; Oscar and Alistair. I’m not crazy about the matched endings, but I didn’t notice it until I was proof-reading so maybe the different number of syllables helps reduce the effect.

Theo and Leo make me think of Hugo. Hugo Nay-Lean; Oscar and Hugo.

I like Franklin—though it helps that I went to high school with a guy named Frank who was bright and funny and well-liked. Franklin Roosevelt and Benjamin Franklin are also good associations for me. Franklin Nay-Lean; Oscar and Franklin/Frank.

I’d also add Everett. Everett Nay-Lean; Oscar and Everett.

I frequently push the name John as a first name. I think you might find it a surprisingly satisfying choice: depending on where you live, it can be very uncommon in the classroom—almost startling. Johnny would be the retro nickname, or of course there’s Jack; or you could do an initials nickname with the middle name (J.W.); or you could call him by first and middle names (John West); but John on its own might be distinctive enough. John Nay-Lean; Oscar and John.

I think Rudy works great as an everyday nickname for Rudolph. I still think of cute Rudy on The Cosby Show, but I doubt many of his peers would—and even Rudy Huxtable doesn’t make the name seem girlish to me.

Allyson writes:

In my constant search to find more than one girl’s name that my husband doesn’t hate, I came across Ellison. I like the sound of it and the nickname Ellie is cute, as is Elle. Google and baby name forums, however, tell me that most people see it as a boy name, due to the -son ending. But that logic doesn’t makes sense to me since Allison, Madison, etc., are firmly in the girl category these days.What are your thoughts? Maybe a poll?

The second issue is my name is Allyson. Is it weird to name a baby girl Ellison since it is so close to my name?

As you’ve found, there are plenty of people who think that the -son ending of Ellison, Allison, Emerson, and Madison means those names should be “boy names.” In some cultures, the suffix -son did sometimes mean “son of,” as did the prefixes “Mc-” and “Mac-” and even “B-“. If -son did mean “son of” in our culture, it would be extremely odd to name a child Emerson if his father’s name weren’t Emery—like saying outright that he’d been fathered by another man. Instead, in American English, -son is just a sound, and can be used without revealing the child’s sex or parentage. The same sound can be spelled -sen, -syn, -sin, -san, -sun, -synne, etc.

Even if we did believe the suffix -son ought to always indicate a boy’s name (and a boy’s father’s name), this belief would run counter to the way the names are actually being used. When we consider whether to call a name a “boy name” or a “girl name,” what we look at is its current usage in its current location. Ashley, for example, is neither a “boy name” nor a “girl name”; Ashley is a name that in the United States was once used for boys and is currently used for girls.

So let’s look at the current usage of the name Ellison: in 2012, the name was given to 234 new baby girls and 43 new baby boys. The spelling Ellyson was given to another 36 new baby girls; the spelling Ellisyn to another 45 new baby girls. I’d say this makes Ellison a unisex name currently used more often for girls. The popularity of El- names for girls right now, plus the similarity to the name Allison, would make me push it even a little further toward the girl side; I don’t think I’d recommend it for boys right now.

We can also look at the usage from recent years, to get an idea of where the name is headed. Looking only at the main spelling Ellison:

2007: 150 girls, 22 boys
2008: 172 girls, 29 boys
2009: 146 girls, 31 boys
2010: 196 girls, 30 boys
2011: 234 girls, 31 boys
2012: 234 girls, 43 boys

Overall, the name Ellison is rising for both girls and boys, while staying more common for girls.

The similarity of Ellison to Allyson would be my primary concern. They’re very, very similar: only one slight vowel-sound difference between them. The mix-ups would be a continual issue—and the spelling difference might also lead to a lot of Ellyson, Ellisyn, and Allison mistakes. But I don’t think this has to rule the name out: I think a lot of people would even get a kick out of it (though perhaps that too might get a little tiresome). It helps that the names are generationally appropriate: if I knew of a mother-daughter pair named Ellison and Allyson, I would be able to guess which was which and be fairly confident of my accuracy.

Molly writes:

My name is Molly and my husbands name is William, but he always goes by Will. Our last name sounds like Sarah, but starts with an M. Our first baby, a little girl, is due in 3 weeks, and we can’t come to a consensus about a name! We are attracted to classic, traditional and feminine names. I tend to shy away from super popular names in this category (like Charlotte), and love names that have a nickname (Rosie for Rose, for example). We plan to have at least one my child, and if this baby were a boy, we likely would have named him Charles (nn. Charlie).

As of last week, we had narrowed our name choice down to either Eloise Audrey or Jane Audrey. My middle name is Jane, and I have always wanted to name a daughter Jane, nn. Janie. My husband “likes” it, but it’s not his favorite. I have also hesitated, as my sister thinks it’s a bit egotistical to use your name for your child? Is that a common conception? As for Eloise, my husband loves it, and I like it. My concerns include pronunciation (I pronounce it EL-oise, but many others say elo-EEZE…is there a right way?), as well as the trendiness of “El” names (Ella, Ellie, etc.). I am also a little cautious, as the popularity seems to be rising quite quickly. My husband thinks it is an elegant, versatile name that lends itself to a variety of nicknames. Any other first names come to mind?

Other first names we like but have ruled out:

Grace (family member named her daughter this)

Rose (Rose M. sounds like Rosemary)

Elizabeth (bad association)

Audrey (husband doesn’t like it as a first name)

Charlotte (too trendy, would like to “save” Charles for a boy)

Elsie (too nick-namey, and we don’t like Elsa or Elspeth, though husband thinks we could use it as nn. for Eloise, while I think it’s a stretch)

In regard to a middle name, we had planned to use Audrey, as it’s a family name. However, last week, my sweet grandfather died. He has been a large part of my life, and the last time I spoke to him, he joked that I should try and have our daughter on his birthday (3 days after our due date) and name her Roberta after him (Robert, called Bobby). Though I am 100% sure my feisty grandfather was joking, I am now inclined to incorporate his name into our daughter’s, somehow. The problem is this: we don’t like Roberta, and can’t come up with a suitable alternative/derivative as an honor name to potentially use in the first or middle position. I have toyed with using his last name (Gallivan) as her middle name, but it certainly doesn’t have the same “flow” as Audrey with our current top contenders. Could you or your readers help us out?

Thanks!!

Certainly it’s a long-standing and familiar practice in our society to hand names down from parent to child. It’s much more common to do so with the father’s name, which I find a little annoying considering it’s also so much more common to hand down the father’s surname. Well. In any case, I can tell you that I don’t think it’s egotistical to hand down a name from mother to daughter, especially when it’s a middle name; and in fact I think it’s a very sweet connection. If your sister wants to spin it as egotistical, I’m not sure we can stop her, but I don’t think you should let it stop YOU.

If Eloise is close but not quite right, I suggest Eliza. Perhaps you and she could share a middle name? Eliza Jane is such a great combination, and gives you other good nicknames such as Ellie Jane and Liza Jane.

The Baby Name Wizard pronounces Eloise the same way you do, and so do I (based on the pronunciation used by the single Eloise I’ve known personally). If I hadn’t searched online and found many, many, many pages devoted to discussions on the topic, I would have thought the other pronunciation resulted from confusing Eloise with the name Louise/Louisa or with the French Eloise in the children’s book series (the French pronunciation is ello-WEES, with the S pronounced as an S rather than Z). If you know many people who pronounce it that way, that’s definitely something to take into account when considering the name. I wouldn’t think of it as a deal-breaker, but the hassle of correcting people (or choosing to let them pronounce it differently than you’d prefer) would be part of the package deal of the name. Louise or Louisa might be easier (though there is still the issue of how the S is pronounced), and would also avoid the recent popularity of El- names.

Part of the reason honor names are so honor-y is that they generally involve using a name not to the parents’ usual tastes: it’s an unusual coincidence when someone we want to honor has a name that’s already on our favorites list and also works perfectly with the other names involved. And so that becomes part of the honor: we give up other preferences (flow; getting to choose any name we want) for the happiness of remembering a particular person every time we use our child’s name.

If you dislike the name Roberta too much for this to be worth it, one possibility is Robin, an old nickname for Robert. Or I suppose Robert to Bertie to Birdy might work, though it seems as if Birdy wouldn’t make you think of your grandfather; I’d be more inclined to use Roberta as the middle name and take advantage of Birdy as a cute nickname option. Or I do think Gallivan is a nice idea; I love the way a family surname honors a whole branch of the family. Or you could change direction entirely and look for a name with the initials R.G.—though, again, that idea seems less likely to make you think of your grandfather. Or you could save Robert for a future possible son, since you already have the family names Jane and Audrey to use for daughters: Charles Robert is a very handsome name. I might also base it on the baby’s birthdate: I’m not sure I could resist using Roberta as the middle name if she were to be born on your grandfather’s birthday.

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Audra writes:

I’m expecting a boy any day now and we have decided to name him Hugo. (A special and significant name to us for many reasons!) The plan has been for his middle name to be James after my Granddad.

Recently though, we’ve brought the name Huck to the table. We love literary names but in the end didn’t like Huckleberry or even Huxley as longer name options. Huck doesn’t seem to stand as well to me on it’s own for an adult. (also the unfortunate rhyming word with it.)

Is Huck an acceptable nickname for Hugo or does it seem far fetched? I personally don’t feel the need to shorten a name I love and find short and sweet as is, but my husband says he’d like to call him Huck.

And with that being said, should we consider changing the middle name to something like Jack (another family name) to maybe make the nickname make more sense? Hugo James (Huck) or Hugo Jack (Huck)

Thank you so much in advance!

We had a similar question yesterday, about using the nickname Jack for James. Using Huck as a nickname for Hugo is like using Kate as a nickname for Kara, or Madd as a nickname for Mark: you can certainly do it, but I wouldn’t even try to make it make sense. I would just brazen it out: you want to call him Huck sometimes, so you’re calling him Huck sometimes. We call my daughter Elizabeth St. Claire, Elizabeth Louise, and Elizabeth Marie—and NONE of those are her name. One of my sons went by a nickname the equivalent of P.J. (where only the second initial was part of his actual name), and he chose to use it even at preschool. There were occasional confusions with other parents if I used his actual first name instead of his nickname, and people often asked where the nickname came from, but it was no big deal.

I wouldn’t change the honor name just to try to make the nickname make sense: I don’t think it helps enough to be worth it. If I were you, I would start by naming him Hugo James as you originally decided, and then have your husband go ahead and call him Huck if he wants to. If it sticks, you can move on to the decision about whether to have other people use it as well. Plenty of children have nicknames that are unrelated to their given names; in this case the easy explanation would be something like “That was his dad’s pet name for him as a baby, and it just stuck!” I think that will make more sense to people than “His middle name is Jack, so it’s kind of like Hu- from the first name and -ck from his middle name.”

Ashton writes:

We are expecting our second child, and we seem to be having so much trouble with boy names! Our daughter’s name is Nora Kate (both family names) and we call her both names most of the time.

My grandfather and my husband’s grandfather are both named James, and there are several relatives who have used James as a middle name or unused first name. The children who have James as a first name are referred to by their middle names. McClain is a family surname as well. We love the sound of James McClain, but I have a hard time adding another James to the mix when there are already 4 in my family and 3 in my husband’s family. I love the classic sound of James, but when I say it and try to picture a child with the name, I can’t. I also dislike the associated nicknames, such as Jamie, Jim, or Jimmy.

I have been entertaining the thought of naming him James McClain and calling him Jack (a combination of the names), but I worry that the correlation is vague. I also know that Jack is traditionally a nickname for John, which might make it look like I assigned an “incorrect” nickname. For some reason, when I picture this sweet addition to the family, I picture “Nora and Jack”, although my husband isn’t keen on using Jack as a stand-alone first name.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I suggest the nickname Mac instead, from McClain. It feels fresher to me than Jack, and takes away the feeling that maybe there was a mistake.

On the other hand, if you’re having a hard time imagining adding another James to the family, and you can’t picture calling a child James, and you dislike all the nicknames for James, it may be that the name James is not the right name for your son.

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