Helen writes:

Thank you for this wonderful blog- it’s the first blog I’ve ever followed, and it’s shown me how fascinating baby naming can be! My husband and I are expecting a baby girl in early June, and we keep coming up against naming dilemmas. I would love some help from you and your readers. My name is Helen, my husband’s name is Will, and we have a two-year old son named Benjamin Thomas (we always call him Ben). Our last name is Fl@nagan. This little girl will probably be our last child.

The too much rhythm dilemma: My husband and I both love the name Anna, but I’ve had negative reactions from a few friends about the repetitiveness of Anna Fl@nagan. Some people feel it’s OK, but others have had a pretty negative response. It’s hard to know when a bit of a beat is too much rhythm. Of all the names we could pick, should we pick one that’s so similar to her last name? I wish I had your magical polling skills at my fingertips! Longer names that could be shortened to Anna don’t quite fit for us (e.g., Annabelle, Annaliese)- neither does using a first and middle name most of the time… We’d use the nickname Annie, but would also use Anna a lot of the time.

The too much “Be” dilemma: My husband’s all-time favorite girl name is Beth. He would want her to have the full name Elizabeth to fall back on, but would want to call her Beth most of the time. I’m OK with Beth, although I wonder if it’s a bit dated…  My main dilemma with Beth is its similarily to Ben. Again, of all the names we could pick, should we pick one that’s so similar to her brother’s name?

The too many nicknames dilemma: When considering the name Beth, I realized that I quite like some other nicknames for Elizabeth: Eliza and Eli. But can we name her Elizabeth and both call her very different nicknames? My husband is OK with Eliza, but strongly prefers Beth. We are both nicknamers, so I doubt that we’d use the full name very often, even if we planned to. Would this end up being confusing for all of us?

Related to this, another name we’ve considered is Rebecca. If we went with this name, my husband would want to call her Becky and I would want to call her Becca. Oh, and Sarah has also come up- he would want to call her Sarah, and I would want to use the nickname Sadie. For both Rebecca and Sarah, neither of us are huge fans of the name/nickname the other one prefers.

Yesterday, the name Dana came to mind– as a name somewhat similar to Anna, but without the similarity to her last name. Not sure if this is just a passing thought…

We’re quite flexible about our little one’s middle name. I’d like an M name for family reasons– We’re considering Marcy (it combines sounds from special family member’s names), or Mae (although Elizabeth May is a famous politician in Canada). We aren’t likely to use her middle name very often.

We’ve still got some time to plan, so any extra ideas for first or middle names would also be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

I think Anna Fl@nagan is the kind of name where it’s very difficult to tell if it’s Not Right or if in fact it’s Extra Awesome. I have the same uncertain feeling about names with strong alliteration, such as Christopher Cranson, or even stronger connections such as William Williamson. It’s like there’s a line somewhere between “Hm, no, that’s too similar” and “Memorable and striking!” Here it’s not so much the rhythm as the rhyme: Ella Fl@nagan would have the same rhythm but no issues, while Anna Fl@nagan leads to the Anna-Flanna issue.

In this situation, though, the thing that would stop me from using it is that Ben and Anna together sound like banana. That too is the sort of thing that could in fact be Extra Awesome, but for myself I felt weary of it almost immediately, and wouldn’t enjoy it as a continued joint nickname, recurring conversation topic, or running joke. And since a common Anna-related nickname is Anna Banana, and there is already rhyme with Anna Flanna-gan—well, again, for someone else it could even IMPROVE things, and if you found you were delighted with the idea then I would be delighted with it TOO and would genuinely enjoy it very much for your family and would have a wonderful time keeping an eye out for banana-themed merchandise to add to your fun family in-joke.

I think Ben and Beth would be too matchy as given names, but cute/fun as nicknames for Benjamin and Elizabeth. If you might have a third child, would you feel pressured to choose another name with a similar nickname?

I suspect that it works fine for two parents to use two different nicknames for their child, but I don’t know from personal experience so I’m hoping others will chime in here. It doesn’t seem like it would be confusing for any of you—only for people outside the family, who might think to themselves, “Wait, who’s this Eliza she’s talking about? I thought her kids were Ben and Beth.” But it seems as if that would be rather minor, with no big negative consequences to the occasional mix-ups—and it also seems like you’d get in the habit of mentioning it: “These are my kids: Benjamin (we call him Ben) and Elizabeth (we call her Beth and Eliza, so she answers to both).”

My guess is that in some cases, what happens is that the plan is to use two different nicknames, but that one nickname ends up fitting the child better. And of course the child herself may have an opinion on the subject, or may choose yet another nickname.

All of this is for names where both of you are okay with the other parent’s nickname choice. For the names where you both actively dislike the other’s nickname choice, that seems like a different situation and would make me cross the name off the list. But that can be completely personality-based: it would bug me to keep hearing a nickname I disliked, and it would bug me even more in times when my husband and I were not getting along as well, and I’d be cheesed if my daughter decided later she only wanted to be called by the nickname I disliked. But the next person might not have any of these issues.

Now to find some more suggestions to consider. I’ve already mentioned Ella, which seems similar to both Anna and Elizabeth but avoids but the rhyming and Be- issues. Ella Fl@nagan; Ben and Ella. But maybe Ella is too close to Helen.

Eve has simplicity and long roots in common with Anna. Eve Fl@nagan; Ben and Eve.

Or Clara seems even more similar in style to Anna, and is also similar to Sarah. Clara Fl@nagan; Ben and Clara.

Or Cora. Cora Fl@nagan; Ben and Cora.

Or Jane. Jane Fl@nagan; Ben and Jane.

Or Rose. Rose Fl@nagan; Ben and Rose.

Or Ruth. Ruth Fl@nagan; Ben and Ruth.

Or Lena might work well. Lena Fl@nagan; Ben and Lena.

Oh, or Leah! Leah Fl@nagan; Ben and Leah. I also like the spelling Lia.

Or Lucy. Lucy Fl@nagan; Ben and Lucy.

Or Julia. Julia Fl@nagan; Ben and Julia.

But perhaps what we need is something more similar to Benjamin, where both of you agree on both the long form and the short form. Maybe Josephine, with the nickname Josie. Josephine Fl@nagan; Benjamin and Josephine; Ben and Josie.

Or Charlotte, with the nickname Lottie. Charlotte Fl@nagan; Benjamin and Charlotte; Ben and Lottie.

Or Eleanor, with the nickname Nora. Eleanor Fl@nagan; Benjamin and Eleanor; Ben and Nora.

Or Abigail, with the nickname Abby. Abigail Fl@nagan; Benjamin and Abigail; Ben and Abby.

Or, wait, maybe Bethany? It has the Beth your husband likes, and some of the sound of Anna, but it avoids the rhyming issue. Bethany Fl@nagan; Benjamin and Bethany; Ben and Beth, or Ben and Annie. That’s my top choice.

Let’s also have a poll over to the right about Anna Fl@nagan. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Poll results for “What do you think of the name Anna Fl@nagan?” (433 votes total):

Too rhymey – 218 votes (50%)
Not too rhymey – 129 votes (30%)
Not too rhymey, but BenAnna/Banana bothers me – 62 votes (14%)
I can’t decide – 24 votes (6%)

Name update! Helen writes:

I can’t thank you and your readers enough for your suggestions. It was wonderful to get such helpful feedback from so many people. Because of the poll, we decided not to go with Anna Fl@nagan, as much as we loved the first name. In the end, we also ruled out Elizabeth because my husband and I didn’t like each other’s preferred nicknames enough. We didn’t finalize a name until our little girl was a week old, but we ended up going with a name you suggested: Clara! I have always loved the name Claire, and we liked your comment that Clara is similar to Sarah and Anna. We chose Mae as her middle name. I’ve attached a photo of our little sweetheart. As an aside, if we had gone with Anna, she’d definitely be next to a banana in the photo!

M. writes:

I have been a long time reader even before I was expecting.  I am due in six weeks (mid Feb) with our first baby which is a girl.  Our last name is Price and we live on the East Coast.  We hope to have another child after this one.  Naming a child has given me a lot of anxiety, so I didn’t really start thinking about a name until 20 weeks, and I knew the gender for sure.  I do like the name Lucas for a boy.  For boys names I don’t mind more common names and prefer something masculine.  For girls I would prefer if the name not be in the top 10 at least.  I lean toward more feminine names and don’t usually like unisex names.  I also don’t prefer when people add in a “Y” to make the name look unique or different ie. Jordyn or Emersyn.  I personally get confused with a name like Carys.  For a long time I could never figure out how to say it.  We have had very few contenders for our girl.  I would like a name on Monday and then hate it by Sunday.  Elizabeth has come up a number of times for us, but I am not sold on it.

I have listened to what you have said many times that “there will be no perfect name.”  It is interesting to me the name we seem to be landing on based on everything I just said in the above paragraph.  I like the name Bryn.  However with our last name, I didn’t like the a one syllable first and last name.  So someone suggested Brynley.  The more and more I think about it, it has really grown on me.  I like that we could call her Bryn and Brynley.  I would like her to have the option to go by Bryn when she is older as well.

Here is the problem.  I can’t decide between the spelling Brynley or Brinley.  Brynley just looks so confusing to me with the “y.”  Will people constantly be confused how to pronounce it?  As a teacher for 10 years I think about this a lot.  I liked that my name growing up was easy to say and spell, but with all the crazy names nowadays is everyone having to tell people how to do this?  I don’t want people to look at her name and think to say it BRIAN (like the boy)-Lee.  That would be annoying to me as a kid.  I do like the shortened form Bryn and it doesn’t seem hard to figure out.  With Brynley the “Y” just seems like we are trying to be different like Jordyn or Emersyn.  In the end I just don’t like how it looks, seems like there are two many “y’s” or something.

Brinley seems to make all these issues go, but it just looks SO masculine to me.  I don’t like looking at it.  I don’t like looking at Brin either.

I don’t like Brynleigh or Brynlee.

Should we go back to the drawing board even if I really like how a name sounds, but don’t like how it looks?  Could you give me some advice that might ease my mind with this name and a spelling.  Am I crazy and over thinking this?

If you’re asking my own personal opinion, I greatly prefer the spelling Brinley. It doesn’t look masculine to me, and I get the same “too many Y’s” and “maybe trying to be different” reactions you find you get with Brynley. Also, even though I know Brynley is pronounced the same as Brinley, my mind keeps wanting to say Bry- to rhyme with try and cry.

But if you hate the way Brinley/Brin looks, that’s a significant issue—one that I’d say trumps the issues with the Brynley spelling.

It may be that these issues will mean the name isn’t the right choice. I’m still unhappy that Paul and I had to scratch the name Elliot off our list because neither of us would agree to the other one’s preferred spelling (he preferred Eliot). But it really did come down to that: the name didn’t work for us because of the way it looked.

Or, maybe it means going back to Bryn. I think Bryn Price is a 1-1 combination that works, like Brad Pitt works, and it lets you use the spelling you prefer without running into the issues that come up when you add -ley. You could choose a middle name that would work nicely for calling her both when you wanted something longer, like Bryn Louise or Bryn Marie.

Or we could find some similar names. Finley, for example, or Quinn or Wynne, or Brenna. Hey, maybe Brynna? Brynna Price gives you a 2-1 pattern instead of 1-1, and you could still use Bryn. My mind does briefly do that rhymes-with-try thing, but I don’t think it would KEEP doing that. And as with Brynley, I DO know how it’s pronounced: I wouldn’t actually think it might be like brine-ah, it would only be a momentary brain flicker when I looked at it.

Or there’s Braelyn? Or I’m trying to remember the little girl my mom knows who has such a cute name along similar lines. I’ll email her and add it in here later. It might actually BE Brinley or Braelyn. (Edited to add: It’s Braelyn.)

Or Kinley is cute, or Kinsley.

Or Briony, pronounced either BREE-ah-nee or BRY-ah-nee.

Or Corinne is similar in sound to Bryn, but with two syllables. Corinne Price.

Or Karenna. Karenna Price.

Or Katherine would be so pretty. Katherine Price.

Or Marin? I’m thinking of it pronounced like MARE-rin, rather than like Marin County. Marin Price.

Mirren is similar and I love Helen Mirren. Mirren Price.

Or Linnea, with nicknames Linn and Linnie.

Elizabeth also seems great to me. Elizabeth Price is such a good name. If it’s not quite right, maybe you’d like Eliza or Elsa or Eloise or Ellery. Or you could name her Elizabeth Brynn Price and still call her Brynn sometimes.

But I think Brynna is my favorite option: an extended version of Bryn, which is what you wanted from Brynley, but without the same issues.

Let’s also have a poll over to the right to see how we as a group are divided on the spelling Brinley vs. Brynley. [Poll closed; see results below.]

Name update! M. writes:

Thank you so much for your help with deciding between Brinley or Brynley.  The comments helped me greatly to rethink our name.  I was leaning toward Brynley, but when the poll showed that most people didn’t prefer it I had to go back to the drawing board,.  I didn’t like it either.  However, I still couldn’t get on board with Brinley.  I thought maybe it wasn’t our name, but I had really grown to love the sound of it and wanted Bryn as the nickname.  We had not been sharing our name ideas with anyone, but I reread a point in the Baby Name Wizard.  The author said that it can be helpful to get some feedback by a few trusted people.  I ran my issue across three of my girlfriends and my mother, and I had them read the blog.  It was interesting how they all liked the spelling Brynleigh.  I am not sure why I was so against that spelling to begin with, but it really began to grow on me.  So on February 26 Brynleigh Ann was born!  I have grown to love the name more and more, and I am really happy with our decision.  Our little baby Bryn is such a joy.  Thank you for all your helpful comments and for voting!

Nicole writes:

We are expecting twin boys (our first children) in early May!  We are very excited, but are having some problems with choosing names.  My name is Nicole, my husband is Sam, and our last name is Mattke (pronounced Matt-key).  Almost all of my favorite names are for girls, so that’s one of the issues that’s made naming twin boys difficult.  I’m looking for names that sound good together and maybe some that are linked somehow, but NOT “twinny” names (ie Jaden and Jalen– ugh!).

My husband and I don’t have the same naming taste AT ALL, so I was shocked when we agreed on a pair of names we both were happy with: Milo and Oliver.  I liked how one ended with an “o” and one started with an “o”, and we were thinking of having both of them paired with “s” middle names: Milo Samuel (after my husband) and Oliver Scott (after my dad), thinking that Milo would be the first baby to be born since he’d be his father’s namesake, and we’d refer to the twins as “Milo and Oliver”.  Well, our first mistake was telling these name ideas to my very vocal and opinionated family.  Not a single person has liked the name “Milo”, making me concerned that we are the only ones who will like his name and he will go through life disappointed or frustrated with it.  (I have a brother named Torry who detests his name and don’t want my sons to feel that way, if we can help it!)  Also, nearly everyone has said, “Oh, like Milo and Otis?” from the movie from the 80’s about a dog and a cat.  Do you think this will come up throughout their lives?  Would it help enough if we switched the birth order, so that Oliver is the one born first and we call them “Oliver and Milo” instead?

I’m not sure if no one being thrilled about those names has tainted them too much for me to use or not.  Maybe you could suggest another pairing of names that we’d like better?

Other names I’ve liked are:

Finn- my very favorite boy name, but I found out a close friend (who isn’t pregnant yet) wants to use it if they have a boy because her husband’s middle name is Finley– so sad for me because this is the name I loved most
Luca- love it but not sure if it sounds too bad with our last name; very Italian with a German surname that doesn’t seem to flow very well?
Jack- too popular
Henry- too popular
Charlie- too plain
Graeme- husband doesn’t like it, rhymes with Sam so don’t think I’d want Graeme and Sam
Malakai (Kai)- our friends just used it

It’s just hard for me to love boy names!

For girls, I love
Camille
Coralie
Magnolia
Jovie
Isla
Jubilee

Please help– picking names for twin boys is much harder than I expected!

Thank you!

My very first suggestion is one you’ve already thought of: say “Oliver and Milo” instead of “Milo and Oliver”—at least at first, until people get used to the names. I think that might nip the problem in the bud entirely. I also like the way that name order emphasizes the way one boy’s name starts with Oli- and the other boy’s name ends with -ilo.

But if the question continues to crop up, the answer to “Oh, like Milo and Otis?” is “…No.” Slight pause, slightly confused/amused expression, and then a mild “No.” The tone should reflect the slight amusement you might feel when contemplating that anyone might actually name twins after two animal characters in a children’s movie, combined with the slight confusion you feel that someone is asking you if this is something YOU did. Especially since one of the names has nothing in common with the movie name other than starting with the same letter, and that letter isn’t even pronounced the same in both names—so if you HAD wanted to name them after the cat and dog, you would not have succeeded.

You could make the difference even greater by naming them Miles and Oliver—but I’d be disappointed to lose the O theme. Or you could change to Leo and Oliver, or Theo and Oliver. I suspect, however, that the question will die down very quickly: it’s the kind of question that gets asked upon first introduction, but not again after that. And even if the Milo & O____ format makes people think of the movie, it isn’t a negative association. If anything, it gives a pleasant “buddies” feeling to the two names.

You don’t have to switch their birth order to switch the order in which you say their names: we don’t always say the names of non-twin children in order of age. If you want Milo Samuel to be the older twin because he’s his dad’s namesake, then have him be the older twin and still go ahead and say his name second. But I will also add that a friend of mine who had twin boys deliberately gave the dad’s name to the secondborn twin, so that they would each have something special: one is the older/firstborn twin, and the other has the dad’s name.

I see what you mean about not wanting to give your child an experience like your brother’s, but the name Milo is not a strange choice for a boy; I don’t think it will be an issue. In the meantime, I would use your brother’s situation as a reason to not take your family’s strong opinions too much into consideration: they chose your brother’s name, and that did not turn out well.

Or, to put it more kindly, their tastes are not the same as yours—and different tastes isn’t something you need to adjust for. If a friend with sons named Ian and Charlie tells me she doesn’t like a name I’m considering, I might pay attention because I know our styles are similar, so her input is meaningful to me. But if my friend with sons named Addison and Jayden doesn’t like my name choice, I can comfortably disregard that, because I know we just have different styles: a name that pleases her is not going to be one that makes sense for me to use, and vice versa. And to add a vote to the other side, Milo was one of our three finalists for our youngest child. (Oliver would have been a fourth finalist, but unfortunately I had made the mistake of naming a cat Oliver. We considered it anyway.)

I am not sure what you should do about the name Finn. I am thinking about how you will feel if you give up the name and then your friend never has a son. If it’s your top favorite name, and if your husband loves it too, and if your friend is not even pregnant, it feels too severe to have you give up the name as if only one child at a time could have it. Even if she later has a son named Finn, the two boys wouldn’t be very close in age. But only you know if using the name would cause a rift in your friendship that wasn’t worth it. Could you use, say, Griffin, and then call him Finn as a nickname? Or do you like the name Ian? Or Quinn?

We did a post awhile back where I got a little carried away and made a long list of names for boy twins. I wonder if any of those would work? I’m just going to post all of them again here:

Frederick and George
Edmund and Henry
Simon and Frederick
Simon and Isaac
Isaac and Frederick
John and Daniel
Elliot and Malcolm
Louis and George
Milo and Emmett
Milo and Malcolm
Oliver and Benjamin
Oliver and Henry
Daniel and Jonathan
Ian and Rhys
Ian and Leo
Davis and Harris
Ruben and Rhys
Rufus and Ruben
Rhys and Aidric
Felix and Aidric
Calvin and Sullivan
Calvin and Malcolm
Anderson and Sullivan
Anderson and Harrison
Keegan and Declan
Daniel and Declan
Simon and Oliver
Milo and Felix
Wesley and Henry

Name update! Nicole writes:

Our twins Oliver Scott and Milo Samuel were born on April 1st! At almost 32 weeks, they were placed in the NICU. We hope to have our sweet little boys home with us in a few weeks! Thanks so much for your naming help–all the positive comments on your blog helped us to decide to stick with our original name choices!

PS– I’ve attached a picture!

Carrie writes:

Hello, I’ve enjoyed reading your blog, especially when trying to come up with a name for my 3 year old son and now my daughter, who is due on March 8th and will likely be our last child.  I realize you probably get inundated with requests like mine but would appreciate any feedback you or your readers could give.  I normally have lots of ideas for baby names and had no trouble coming up with my son’s name. However, I am at a loss about what to name my daughter, and finding a name has become stressful instead of fun.

My husband and I had decided on a name, Eleanor Charlotte Hanger.  We chose Eleanor because we like the name and Charlotte after my dad Charles.  However, my mother’s and parents-in-laws’ reactions were so negative about the name, that I doubt we will use it.  While I know it’s our child to name, I really don’t want to name our daughter something that 3 of her 4 grandparents hate and will refuse to call her (or have started to call her Eleanor Rigby).  I shouldn’t feel this way, but their reactions have dampened my enthusiasm for the name.  I suppose this is a good example of why it’s probably best to wait until the baby is born to tell everyone his/her name.  My husband just wants me to find a name I like and is more interested in weighing in about what he likes and doesn’t like than coming up with suggestions.  So, it’s back to the drawing board but I haven’t found anything I love.

We tend to like names that have some history, have traditional spellings, and aren’t within the top 50 of the SSA list for first names.  We are less picky about popularity for middle names, but I am trying to avoid Grace, which is a family name, because it is so often used as a middle name.  We prefer to have names that have possible nicknames.  I’d like for our daughter to have a serious but feminine name that could work well whether she is a ballet dancer, doctor, or marine biologist.  We live in the South if that helps for context.

We used family names for our son, Nathaniel Hall Hanger, and he goes by the nickname Nate.  I like the 3-1-2 rhythm of his name.  If he had been a girl, we would have named him Charlotte, but that was four years ago, before I was aware of how popular Charlotte is and before Charlotte jumped down to the under 30s on the Social Security list. If this baby were a boy, the baby’s name would be Theodore with the middle name Charles or Stone.  Charles and Stone are family names.

My husband and I have been toying with the idea of naming the baby Susannah, which is a family name.  However, I’m not sure about the middle name and don’t love the association with the song O Susannah.

Other names we have considered are Margaret (a family name), Josephine, and Penelope (but I’m worried that it’s growing in popularity).   I like Eve, Louisa (I love the sound of Louisa Charlotte), Frances, and Alice, but my husband does not.  I still like Charlotte but am bothered by its popularity.  I also like the names Claire and Julia but worry that they are too popular.  I like the name Vivien, but my old coworker, with whom I’m still close, is named Vivien, and my husband thinks it would be weird to use the name since while we are close, we are not so close that I would name my child after her.  Vivien also seems to be rising in popularity.

Names we like but cannot use because of friends’ children or my son’s friends are Evelyn, Eloise, Lucy, and Madeleine.

New ideas or suggestions from our list for a name that would work well with our son’s name would be appreciated.

Thanks so much,

I think the name Susannah is lovely and underused, and I like the way it repeats the rhythm/syllables of Nathaniel. But if the association with the song bothers you, I think it would be best to avoid the name. Perhaps it will work as a middle name.

If you do use it, you could repeat the rhythm of your son’s name with a one-syllable middle name. Grace is indeed a common middle name, but the family-name connection might make it worth it. Nathaniel Hall and Susannah Grace. Or you could use Eve. Or Claire. Or Stone would be an interesting choice.

Savannah would be similar in sound, but seems quite different in style—and loses the family-name connection.

If you like Eleanor, Ellen and Nora are similar.

If you like Charlotte, Violet is similar in sound and style, and less popular (though rising).

If you like Claire, there’s also Clara and Cora.

I notice you mention popularity often. Here is the trouble: almost all the names you like are in style, and therefore fairly popular. This is natural: very few of us prefer out-of-style names, just as very few of us are wearing plaid bell-bottoms and feathered bangs. If you would like to make popularity your main priority, we will need to look at names that are currently out of style.

In which case, Louisa’s your girl. It’s a great underused traditional name, it repeats the syllables and rhythm of Nathaniel, and it lets you use Charlotte in the middle name position where popularity is much less important. It’s too bad your husband doesn’t like it. Might it grow on him with time and nagging?

The name Eliza is similar in sound and style, but is also more popular (#255 in 2011, to Louisa’s #956), and rising (though it took an encouraging little dip in 2011; perhaps it is slowing/stopping). Nathaniel and Eliza.

I think the best possibility might be to go back to the name you already chose. I can see how the name feels ruined (especially if the rejection happened recently), but it’s also completely classic for the grandparent generation to dislike their grandchildren’s names at first hearing; my guess is that they wouldn’t like many other names on your list, either. We could try to please them by choosing one of the names they consider stylish (perhaps a fresh new sound such as Kimberly or Ryan)—and then our children would have “mom and dad names” and stand out among their peers.

No, naming style moves on. I am practicing getting used to that truth NOW, because I know I will have trouble with it when my own grandchildren are being named. “SHIRLEY, DOLOROS, OR CRAYOLA??,” I’ll say privately to Paul. “They’ve narrowed it down to SHIRLEY,  DOLOROS, OR CRAYOLA??” And I can picture myself two days after the baby is born, saying to Paul, “What a GREAT NAME! I can’t believe I never considered it! Why did I never even SUGGEST it on the name blog?? It’s ADORABLE!! It’s the best name ever!!”

Nicknames can be a good way to help grandparents transition to the names currently in style. Would they like the name any better if they could call her Ellie or Nora or Lennie or Nell? (Attempts to call her Eleanor Rigby should be squashed with a wince and an “Oh—please don’t.”)

Based on what you know of them, do you think they really will refuse to call her Eleanor? Most people get over their initial reactions when the baby has been on the scene for awhile (in fact, those same people can sometimes be found talking about how they always loved that name). Right now, they are panicking because they dislike the name and there’s still a chance you might change your mind; once it’s a done deal, it would require a very unpleasant disposition indeed to continue to make negative remarks about it.

And surely a grandparent would not persistently refuse to use the name of a small child they love, hurting her feelings and confusing her? Yes, yes, I’m sure we can produce stories where this has occurred (Paul’s grandfather wouldn’t acknowledge his birth or name for an entire year because Paul wasn’t named after him); and I, in turn, will feel safe labeling those people as manipulative, unkind pineholes. I suspect your parents and in-laws don’t fall into that category, but will instead fall neatly into appropriate behavior as soon as the name is no longer negotiable. (And if I am wrong, perhaps it really would be a good idea to pass all names by them first, to avoid future pain for your daughter.)

In the meantime, does anyone have any fresh suggestions? Or a soothing story about grandparents who came around to a baby’s name after initially disliking it?

Name update! Carrie writes:

Hello, thanks so much for your help naming my daughter who was born on March 4th.  I appreciated all of the reassurance from you and your readers as well as the very helpful suggestions.  If we ever have a third, we have a great list of names thanks to everyone.  We decided to go to the hospital with two names:  our original choice, Eleanor Charlotte, and what we ended up with, Susannah Eve.  We were pretty set on Eleanor Charlotte but wanted to see her first.  The baby made a very quick and somewhat dramatic appearance.  Based upon her entry into the world and spending a some time with her, we decided that Susannah Eve fit her better.  We have actually started calling her Eve for now, but it will be interesting to see how nicknames develop.  The grandparents seem to like her name although my mother does not like Eve.  However, we really don’t care because we think the name fits her perfectly.  My son (Nathaniel Hall, nn Nate), husband, and I couldn’t be happier with our new addition.

M. writes:

Forgive me if you have covered this already, but I am curious if you have an tips on dealing with negative name associations.

Examples:

1. The name Adam has always been a frontrunner on our boy list.  I love it – simple, classic, and (up until recently) a name where someone says “I don’t know an Adam
who isn’t a nice guy”.  BUT – now all I do is associate the name [with a recent crime].

2. I was googling to find out the original spelling for Anneliese (another favourite) – and came across “the real exorcism of Annelise Michel”, and I can’t get her
anguished black and white photo out of my head!

Please help!

A negative association does sometimes completely ruin a name. I can say “Try not to let it,” but what would that solve? If the association now springs to your mind every time, the name is ruined. The best I could advise is preventative measures when possible: if you know from past experience that a single negative association will be impossible to get out of your head, have someone else help with the Googling.

Fortunately, time takes care of most such things. For awhile after a major crime, a hit movie or book, a big scandal, or an unfortunate session on Google, the names of most of the participants will be too strongly associated to use. We’ve had several letters mentioning that the name Grey/Gray has been ruined by the association with the popular 50 Shades of Gray book series—but it’s hard to picture that effect being permanent. New books, movies, crimes, and scandals are always coming along to kick the old ones to the backs of our minds.

Unusual names will have longer-lasting problems: the names O.J. and Adolf still have strong associations, even though quite a bit of time has passed. But Charles Manson didn’t permanently ruin the name Charles, in part because there are so many other people named Charles to weaken that association (though I suspect the name Manson isn’t going to join the surname-name trend). There have been so many other people named Adam, I doubt it will be ruined, either. It may still be ruined for your own use, however, just as the name Charles was probably ruined for people who were shocked and upset by those events at the time.

You could try to manually dilute associations by deliberately looking for other people with a possibly-ruined name. Find every Annalise/Anneliese you can, and look at their nice pictures and read their pleasant and ordinary histories and look through their insufficiently-privacy-controlled Facebook walls. Watch some Adam Sandler and Adam Levine videos, and then read the biographies of Adam Smith and Adam West, and then watch Mythbusters and enjoy a little Adam Savage.  Etc. Each time the unpleasant association pops into your mind, replace it with one of your new images; leaf through them like a little mental deck of cards.

I notice that many teachers have problems with name associations at a more minor level. I answer only a fraction of the letters I get asking for help with association-free names, mostly because there’s no way they can list for me all the names that have associations for them. One solution is to choose a very unusual name, never before encountered—but then if there ever IS an association with that name, it will be an intensely strong one. Another solution is to choose a name so common, there’s no way a single association can stick to it—but then of course there will be many, many new associations made all the time. It’s hard to know what to do. Which is better: a bigger mental deck to flip through, or a deck that doesn’t have to be brought out so often?

I have one anecdote about a negative association that was taken care of by a combination of dilution, an overriding association, and time. My high school boyfriend had a relatively common name; I’m going to use James as a stand-in for that name. We dated quite seriously for two years, and then had a series of terrible break-ups. For years afterward, I couldn’t even think about him without getting furious and upset. And a little over ten years later, I gave my first son the middle name James. There were several things going on: (1) the name James is very common and diluted; (2) my grandfather’s name was also James, and I wanted to name a son after him; (3) more than a decade had passed, and I’d had two serious relationships since then.

Does anyone else have suggestions for dealing with negative associations? Or anecdotes about negative associations fading (or not fading) with time?

Name update! M. writes:

Thank you so much for choosing to answer my email, and for your (and your readers) thoughtful input!!

On January 13, we welcomed our son, Jesse Mathis.

While we didn’t use Adam (I think I wrote you before I was even pregnant, and many new names rotated into the short list between then and Jesse’s birth), your thoughts definitely did assist me when considering all names, including Jesse.

Instead of letting a single image (“is Jesse too ‘bad boy'”?) consume my mind, I had conversations like these with myself: “Yes, there is Jesse James, and Rory’s rebel boyfriend in Gilmore Girls, and an acquaintance of yours with substance-abuse issues…but wait a minute, your high school friend married a Jesse and he is a DOCTOR.  And JESSE TYLER FERGUSON plays your favourite character on Modern Family.  And the name is BIBLICAL.  And CELESTE AND JESSE FOREVER was a pretty cute movie…”

Thanks so much again for the good advice!!

Nancy writes:

I have a baby name dilemma that I would love for you and your commenters to tackle.  We are expecting our second daughter in May.  We have a two and a half year old named Lucy, I am Nancy, and my husband is Kevin.  Our last name sounds like Strickland.  About a year after Lucy was born I realized that we had accidentally set up the possibility of a fun naming pattern:  K, L, M, N.  We are trying to decide whether to name this next baby a name that begins with “M” and stick with the pattern or not.  I would love your thoughts.  And have any readers chosen to do a pattern like this, or not chosen to, and have any regrets?  I like that it is a subtle pattern that can tie us all together.
Some of our top names do begin with M (Mary, Marie, Miranda, Maggie), but we also like names like Dorothy, Evelyn, Annie, Nora, Celeste (which does not work with the last name), Caroline, and Beatrice.  There is no clear front runner yet.  For what it is worth, we are thinking of having a third child, and using the letter J or O would be fine with us if we do commit to the pattern.  Middle name will be my mother’s maiden name, which sounds like Taylor.
We would love some outside opinions and words of experience on naming quirks like this, in hopes that it will help us make up our mind!
Thank you so much!

It sounds fun to me! My dad pointed out after our fifth child was born that our kids’ initials and ours were ALMOST in a unified clump. If we’d had more children after that, I would have been quite tempted to find initials that filled in the gaps. But if I found a name I loved that didn’t start with one of the letters I wanted, I don’t think I’d be willing to give up the name to get the initial.

I think what I’d do is begin by looking at names that started with the desired initial, and just see if it worked out. If it did work out, it would be fun; if it didn’t work out, it would be fine, no big deal. The biggest downfall from my point of view is that I think I’d feel increasingly stuck: if it DID work out to fill in a gap, and then I had another child, I think I would feel like I almost HAD to continue the pattern, because I’d done it on purpose the previous time and now I was invested in the plan.

Does anyone else have experience with doing (or choosing not to do) a fun little pattern of this sort?

Name update! Nancy writes:

We still hadn’t decided when our daughter arrived three weeks early!  But in the end we just couldn’t pass up the chance to do the naming pattern.  We chose the name Mary.  We just kept coming back to that one as being the one that fit all of our criteria, and I love the added bonus of the pattern.  Thanks to everyone for all your thoughts on it, we were reading them up until the birth!
Thank you!

Gail writes:

We have two boys already, Josiah and Tanner, whose middle names are Lewis and William, respectively, after hubby’s grandfather and my dad. We are due with a girl in April. Our first girl.

Our last name is Roberts.

My first choice is Colby. I know it’s mostly a boy name, but I don’t like it on boys, I like it for a girl. And I don’t want it with an ie at the end either. The problem is finding a middle name that works. I assume it needs to be girly, since the first name is unisex (or maybe even masculine to some people). But Grace is already in the family (and over-used) so that’s out. Not much else seems to work.

Some names I’m considering: Annareese (hubby’s mom {anna} + my mom {teressa}), Emerson, Rae (hubby’s middle name is Ray), Josette.

If we don’t go with Colby (Sadie was my first choice previously, but it’s used by a close friend for her daughter, so I don’t want to use that), hubby likes Carleigh (his dad is Carl). I would also consider Scarlett or Colette for first names, but still have the same trouble with finding middle names.

We usually use the middle name to name our child after someone, but this is possibly our last child, and we can’t, say, name it after his mom and leave my mom out, and vise versa. We could name the baby after his dad, but the only feminine version of Carl we like is Carleigh, which won’t work as a middle name for Colby, and between the two, I’d prefer Colby. I feel like I’ve been trying too hard. I want a name to just pop out at me and love it (like how it happened when I fell for Colby or Sadie as first names). As of now, everything seems like we have to force it to make it work.

My husband tends to lean towards traditional names, and I’m usually the one for the unique. If we used Colby for the first name, I’d be more than fine with a traditional or simple middle name.

Any suggestions???

Thank you so much!

When you named your first son, you used the name of your husband’s grandfather as his middle name, without worrying that it would leave out your husband’s other grandfather and both of your own grandfathers, and without combining names to make sure they were all covered. When you named your second son, you used your dad’s name as his middle name, without worrying that it would leave out your husband’s dad, and without combining the two dads’ names to make sure you got both in (Carliam! Willarl!).

I don’t think there’s any reason why naming your possibly-last baby (especially since either of the first two babies could also have been the last) needs to make any difference to this pattern: go ahead and use one mother’s name, without worrying that it leaves out the other mother, and without mashing their names together. None of the other honorees have had to share.

Or, you could use both names: Colby Anna Teressa Roberts.

If you only want to use one middle name, and if you go with your first choice of first name, I suggest choosing your husband’s mother’s name—to balance things out, and also since your most recent child was given your father’s name and that way both sets of the children’s grandparents are represented. (Which makes a good explanation for the mothers, too.)

Or, use whichever mother’s name sounds better with the chosen first name. Colby Anna Roberts is nice if you don’t mind the initials CAR, and so is Colby Teressa Roberts. I also like Colette Teressa Roberts, and Scarlett Anna Roberts, and Carleigh with either Anna (CAR again, which is kind of neat in this case since it would also be the first three letters of her name) or Teressa.

Or, if you like the sound of Colby Grace, Colby Rae is almost the same sound, so that seems like a good choice. Or you could ditch the family names entirely, and use Colby Faith or Colby Jane or Colby Paige.

Other names similar to Colby and Sadie (not all are good with the surname, but I’m leaving those in anyway for anyone else consulting the post for ideas):

Ashby
Aubrey
Bailey
Brinley
Cadence
Callie
Casey
Chloe
Cleo
Daisy (same sounds as Sadie, rearranged)
Darcy
Emberly
Hadley
Hazel
Kiley
Lacey
Macy
Maisy
Nadia
Paige
Paisley
Peyton
Ruby
Sage
Shelby

Name update! Gail writes:

I can’t believe I’ve forgotten to update until now. Once my husband learned Colby was a unisex name (I had no idea he didn’t already know), he forbade it. We actually ended up with 2 front-runners: Lila Beth and Brinley Gail. She was born on March 22 and we brought Brinley Gail home from the NICU after some complications 8 days later. Brinley was unique enough for my taste without turning my husband off, and we used my name as the honor name we were looking for, so as not to feel guilty about using one grandmother over the other. Thanks for all your help! I hope Brinley does not end up in the top 10 in the next 20 years! :)

Sarah writes:

I’m due with my first child- a girl- in early February, and desperately need your help in coming up with a name! My name is Sarah; my husband’s name is Brendan, and our family name is Burr with a ‘d’. Somehow, in the course of this pregnancy, we’ve become certain that this little girl is mellow and sweet. Thus, we really like short and sweet names for our little lady. But one problem is that we can’t narrow down our list! We like:

Fiona
Violet
Nora
Elinor
Celia
Rose
Eliza
Margot
Charlotte (nn Lotte)
Lucy

a few disjointed thoughts:

We would have named this baby Everett Thomas if she had been a boy. We really favor strong Celtic names for boys (and plan on using these names for any future boys): Seamus, Cormac, and Finlay. For some reason, the same rule doesn’t apply for girls’ names: I ruled out Mairead, which I do love, as sounding a bit “too Irish”, but we both love Margot (said the French, not German way) and similarly my husband ruled out Tegan for not sounding feminine to our American ears. The one Irish name that stuck was Fiona, but my husband isn’t sold on it as being “the one” and neither am I.

We ruled out Chloe, Emma, and Sofie because they’re currently top 10 names. My husband ruled out Jane, which I love, for being “too plain”. My husband think’s Elizabeth is too plain as well, but doesn’t mind Eliza. Catherine was ruled out as a first name because my husband’s sister, who he has a strained relationship with, is named Kathleen (goes by Katie).

Right now my husband’s number one pick would probably be Margot Quinn (middle name being a family name- and he’s said about Margot that “he thinks of her as a Margot, but isn’t sure she’ll look like a Margot”) and my number one would be Nora, or else Rose. My burning question, in addition to “is there some fabulous name we’re missing? One that is a bit traditional, feminine, sweet, but fresh sounding? Preferably a saint’s name, since we’re Catholic?” would be “what middle name could we use for Rose?”

Please help! I’m really waffling about here. It seems like every day I have a new #1, which is making it difficult to even visualize her having a name. Meanwhile, my husband is pretty certain about Margot but would be open to using Rose if we came up with a balanced sounding middle name.

Rose seems like the perfect option to me: short, sweet—but strong and versatile, too, if she ends up being less mellow than expected. For the middle name, I’d consider many of the names from your list (or names that didn’t quite make the list), especially ones you love but don’t want to use as a first name: Rose Emma Burr, Rose Catherine Burr, Rose Mairead Burr.

But when you asked for a sweet, feminine, fresh name that was also ideally a saint’s name, the name that sprang to mind was Felicity. Felicity Rose Burr, maybe, or Felicity Quinn Burr, or Felicity Jane Burr.

The other sweet feminine saint’s name that came to mind was Cecily. Or Camilla, or Flora, or Genevieve, or Josephine. Or Maura gives you a saint and also a moderately familiar Irish name. Or I have a soft spot for the name Winifred, with the very sweet nickname Winnie.

The name Nora makes me think of Cora, one of my favorite sweet names, and Cora makes me think of Clara. Those might have too much R with the surname, though. Oh…and Cora Burr-with-a-D might sound like corridor.

Willa would also be sweet, or Molly, or Faith, or Laurel, or Rosemary.

If Chloe is too popular, Cleo or Phoebe.

I’d also suggest this post: Narrowing down a list.

Name update! Sarah writes:

Writing in to update that I finally had my baby girl! We named her Margot Jane, a compromise between my husband’s favorite (Margot) and one of my favorites, which he’d initially vetoed as a first name (Jane). We are smitten with her! Thanks to you and your readers for helping us name her. We’re already brainstorming sibling names. :)

J. writes:

We are struggling with coming up with a boy’s name we like for our next child, a boy, due in the spring.  Our son is named after his grandfather’s, Henry Palmer–and, we actually used his grandfather’s middle names because their first names DID NOT work  It’s a classic name and we discovered after his birth and naming that it was becoming quite popular in our demographic, much to our annoyance.  That said, we still love his name and it suits him perfectly.  We want our next DS to have a name that’s equally connected to both of our families.  BUT, the thing is, the only names we have on the male side of our families that we liked we used for our older son.  Thus our options are–using a male name w/o the familial significance (which I’d prefer not to do); using a male name (of a family member) that we don’t like; or male names of family members we never really knew or felt connected to; or names that NO one else would like.  We have three main criteria–we must have a “reason” for the name (eg family name; favorite disciple) and it must go with Henry and our last name (rhymes with Virus, starts with K sound).

That said, these are the family names we have to work with: Kermit, Gordon, Forrest, Bartholomew.  So far, our list for consideration includes: Peter, Kermit, Bartholomew and Forrest.  Peter would be our first choice by a long shot, it’s the name of my partner’s favorite disciple, but it also happens to be the name of a disliked, distant relative.  We thought about going with the names of favorite theologians–but my favorites are Reinhold and Martin (Buber), neither of which really work for us.   Oh, and if we did go with one of the odder choices I worry that our next child may be resentful that his brother got a perfectly normal, mainstream name (which is why we aren’t just going with Kermit…).

I know you’re flooded with questions but if you have the time (and we’re interesting enough)…

I can see how you’re stuck: you want a name that has family significance AND that you love—but there AREN’T any names that meet both preferences. You find the name of someone you love, but you don’t love the name; so then you find a name you love, but it doesn’t have the right kind of family significance. At such times I think we have to stop spinning, throw our hands up, and say, “What we want does not exist. And so, given that situation, what is our second choice?”

I think it’s going to come down to which is more important to you: using a name you love, or using a name with positive family significance. This is a common choice to have to make: it’s rare that the people important to us coincidentally have names that match our own personal tastes. This is why those families with a Grandma Ellie are all fighting to honor her, while Grandma Mildred’s name goes completely uncontested—despite the fact that Grandma Mildred was awesome in every way and Grandma Ellie was an irritable old bat. It’s one of the things that make honor names so honor-y: we use them for love and significance, not because we would have chosen the names anyway.

If I were you, I would go with a first name you love. The love becomes the reason for using it, and a very nice reason it is, too: “We gave you this name because we loved it so much.” And perhaps you will find a name you love that has significance of a non-family variety, as with the idea of using disciple/theologian names. (I suggest Lewis, if you like C.S.; or George, if you like MacDonald.)

Then in the middle name position, I’d use the name of a beloved family member (if the child has one parent’s surname, then I’d use a name from the other parent’s family to give him the connection to both sides you’re hoping for), accepting the dislike of the name as the cost of honoring someone important. Or, if you don’t want to accept that cost, I’d use another name you love.

If the relative named Peter is a distant one, I think the favorite-disciple thing can trump it. If anyone in your family says, “Oh, after second-cousin-once-removed Peter?,” you’d just say, “Oh! No, it’s after Partner’s Favorite Disciple.” Peter is not such an uncommon name that there has to be an obvious connection, and Henry and Peter is a nice combination.

Edited to add: I just had one final thought: you mention looking at the names of male relatives, but are there any names of female relatives that would work (unisex names, names with feminine/masculine versions, surnames)?

Name update! J. writes:

Peter Bartholomew !!!

Sorry it took us three and a half months to send an update–but since you just solved a dear friend’s naming dilemma (thank you for settling the Emil question!!!) I realized I hadn’t sent an announcement of our final choice!

Rachel writes:

My sister has been following your blog for quite some time. I recently learned that my husband and I are expecting our first child in May. As someone who has always been fascinated by names, I am surprised by how difficult this decision has been. We do not know the gender yet and plan to learn the gender at a family gender reveal party in the coming weeks.

Our last name is Mack, yet some of my favorite names begin with an M (Mason and Macy) though we are trying to avoid alliterative names.

We would love to honor close family members who have since passed on with variations of their names– Carl, Eleanor, and William.

You may notice from our short list that we prefer unique names as opposed to the very common names such as Michael, David, Jennifer, and Katie.

Some of our top names for boys are:

Camden
Caleb
Hudson
Mason
Riley
Gavin
Colton
Anderson
Corbin
Keagan/Keegan

Some of our top names for girls are:

Brynn
Charlotte
Macy
Riley
Elena
Nora
Teagan

Also, I love Addison but wouldn’t use it as a colleague has used that name recently. I wonder what names are similar to Addison…

Many thanks,

I think the first thing we should tackle is the concept of unique/common names. Jennifer and David, for example, are RAMPANT among parents but practically unknown among the wee set. Meanwhile, Mason was the second most common name for U.S. baby boys in 2011.

It can be difficult to make this switch—to think of the common names from our own peer group (Jennifer, Michelle, Jessica, Brian, Jason) as “the Mom and Dad Names.” It can lead to unpleasant shocks: how can it be that when we’d never met one single Charlotte in our whole lives, our daughter is going by Charlotte M. because there are two in her class this year? We’d have been better off if we’d named her Jennifer: there isn’t a single one of those in the entire school (except for half a dozen of the staff)!

Do you have friends with children in daycare or preschool? Those class lists can be very helpful for seeing what people are currently naming babies in your area. Or you can browse The Social Security Administration’s baby name web site, which is great for finding a name’s current standing or for seeing how it’s trending. For example, here’s what Hudson and Addison have been doing recently:

(screen shot from SSA.gov)

(screen shot from SSA.gov)

Next, let’s look for some names similar to Addison. Similarities can be subjective, so there may be some names on this list that won’t seem similar to you at all—but it’s a starting point. And I’m including some that won’t work with your surname (the M ones, just for starters), because this seems like a good reference list for other parents as well:

Abigail
Adeline
Adelyn
Adrienne
Amelie
Aniston
Annabel
Atalie/Adalie
Avery
Cadence
Claudia
Delaney
Ellison
Elodie
Emerson
Evelyn
Gracen
Hadley
Jaiden
Jensen
Jillian
Jocelyn
Kennedy
London
Lydia
Madelyn
Madigan
Madison
McKenna
Meredith
Morgan
Nadia
Natalie
Peyton
Sadie
Sheridan

Your lists look good to me. If it’s mostly hard to PICK something, I suggest leafing through Baby Naming Advice for First-Time Parents to see if any of the advice applies. Sometimes it can help to make little mock groups of sibling names, to see which groups sound more like your family: is it easier to imagine being the parents to Camden, Riley, and Teagan, or to Caleb, Charlotte, and Nora? If you choose Riley for a daughter, does that rule out a very feminine name such as Charlotte for a future daughter? and if so, which style do you prefer?

I notice a lot of -son names on your list: Mason, Hudson, Anderson, Addison. And then I added some more to the like-Addison list. If you plan to have more than one child, and if you would rather not duplicate endings, this is an area where I’d suggest spending some time making sure you’re using your very favorite of the -son names.

Because you like the name Mason and Caleb, I might add Cason. Maybe Cason William Mack.

Instead of Macy, I wonder if you’d like Lacey or Darcy or Lucy?

And as with the -son issue, if you choose Keegan, that rules out Teagan and vice versa. Which would you prefer to use? Or would you want to consider Reagan or Regan for a girl? Elena and Nora are both similar to the honor name Eleanor; would you want to use Eleanor as the name and one/both of those as nicknames?

A baby-naming tactic I use is to make some lists, as you have—but then wait until I know the sex of the baby before getting serious. I find it very clarifying to be dealing with only one set of names, and with a baby who now seems more vivid to me as a little boy or as a little girl. (And then if there is a surprise at delivery, you still have the other list to work with.)

Name update! Rachel writes:

Last year you offered my husband and I great advice as we were choosing a name for Baby Mack. On May 5, 2013, we welcomed our sweet Kensington Elena. I look forward to your future posts. Many thanks,