Hello Swistle,

I can’t believe I am writing to a baby naming blog, but I feel that I am just going in circles and need an outside opinion! I am pregnant with our second child, expected to arrive in about six weeks. We do not know the gender. Our last name is *eadows, starts with an M. We have a son, John Walker who we call J.W. If this baby is a boy, I *THINK* we are settled on William Randall (after both of our fathers), and we would call him Will. I’m not crazy about how common this name is, but I think with a classic like William, you can’t go too wrong. I also have always adored the name Henry, which happens to be my husband’s grandfather’s name, but it seems that lately this name has surged to such popularity, at least where we live, that I don’t think I can bear to use it. Another boy name option was Edward James, but I think we’ve ruled it out as we don’t love the nicknames associated with Edward, and the name Edward is a bit of a mouthful with our last name.

Now onto the girls names, which are causing us the most heartburn. I tend to love very classic, traditional names, but nothing that is too popular or trendy, and my husband likes nickname-type names – Lizzy, Maggie, Callie, etc. I would want to use a more formal name that could be shortened. That being said, I started the name search for this baby with the criteria that I did NOT want to use another name that was shortened to a nickname, because we already have a John Walker (who is called John, John Walker and J.W. by different members of our family, which can get confusing and we never know how to introduce him). My favorite girl name has always been Catherine, but I worry that I won’t be able to control her being nicknamed Cat or Cathy, neither of which I care for. My husband says he does not like Catherine enough to call her that. I also love the name Margot, but I do not think that it flows well with our last name (don’t love the double “o” sound). Right now, my short list looks like this (I have no idea why so many “C” names are on the list – that is definitely not a criteria). Several of them are trying to get the nickname Callie (which I know is traditionally a nickname for Caroline, but I just don’t love Caroline!) because my husband really loves Callie but I just don’t want to use a nickname as the given first name. So trying to compromise! While Louise and Catherine are both names pulled from our family tree, we don’t have any burning need to use any particular “honor” name for a girl.

Catherine Louise, nn Callie (is this nickname reasonable or a stretch? Would it be tough and/or confusing to make it stick?) – if it were completely up to me, I would choose this name and just call her Catherine, but my husband won’t be convinced. He would choose Callie Louise as the given name.
Clara Catherine, nn Callie (is this nickname reasonable, or a stretch?) Or just call her Clara?
Camille Catherine, nn Callie (Callie seems a more logical nickname for Camille than Catherine, but I prefer the name Catherine to Camille) My husband also likes the name Camille and would be willing to call her that – I like it but just don’t love it. I also do not like the nickname Cami.
Julia Magdalene nn Maggie (named exactly after my great grandmother, my mom’s beloved grandmother) I think the full name sounds nice with our last name, but I don’t love Julia as a stand-alone first name, and it’s another “her name is this, but we call her this”, which I would like to avoid if at all possible!
Margot Catherine or Margot Louise (this would be a very serious contender if I liked how it sounded with our last name – but I like Margot enough that I haven’t been able to rule it out completely)

Any help or opinions you could provide here would be appreciated!

Edited to add:

Thank you so much for posting my question today, the feedback has already been so helpful. I thought I would send in a quick follow-up, after reading some of the replies and questions. My son’s middle name ‘Walker’ is my father-in-law’s middle name and my husband’s first name. So, since the time I sent in my last email, I have somewhat abandoned the name William for a boy (since we’ve already honored grandfather William Walker with our first child!), and now I am loving Thomas Henry – that way I can still use the name Henry but in the middle name slot. My husband is also still pulling hard for Edward James, and calling him Eddy. So I guess we’re not as decided on boy names as I thought. On the girl names, a couple of readers have suggested Mary – that would definitely be a top contender, except for the fact that it’s my name! :) I am loving all the suggestions, thank you again! I promise to send an update when this little one arrives.

Considering you like classic/traditional names and your husband wants a diminutive, I do think the appropriate compromise is to give her a classic/traditional name with an available cute nickname. I know you’d prefer to avoid a nickname, but it seems to me that it’s a choice between (1) a nickname as a given name or (2) a nickname as an additional option—and if it were me, I’d prefer the option. The possible confusion of name/nicknames seems like such an ordinary level of confusion: so very many people either go by nicknames or have nicknames they don’t choose to use. I would also like to see her given a family honor name, if that is what you’re doing for sons (are either/both of John Walker’s names family names?).

I have trouble making the leap from Catherine to Callie, or from Clara to Callie—which is not to say you can’t give it a shot, but I do think it could be difficult to make it stick. And I think your concerns about the nicknames for Catherine have merit: I don’t think she’d be likely to be called Cathy unless that nickname drifts back into style sooner than expected, but I think it’s quite possible she’d choose to go by Cate or Cat later on.

If you want Callie, I suggest naming her Calista/Callista. One of Elizabeth’s classmates last year was a Callista called Callie, and I was surprised by how much I liked it. I’d use Louise as the middle name. Calista Louise -eadows; John Walker and Calista Louise; J.W. and Callie. Darling.

Another option is Calla. Calla Louise -eadows; John Walker and Calla Louise; J.W. and Callie. But Calla -eadows runs together a bit for me and sounds as if her name could be Callum. Overall, I prefer Calista.

Callie could also be short for Callan (like Alan with a C) or Calliope, but those seem outside your naming style.

It’s possible that the name Callie will need to be abandoned, if at this point it’s creating stress and making you feel trapped.

I think Clara is great: a nice classic name, but short and sweet enough to fit in with names such as Callie and Maggie. And I love Catherine in the middle name position, where you get most of the advantages but without the potential nickname issues. Could your husband call her Clarrie/Clary instead of Callie? It looks awkward written out, but I knew a little Claire called Clairy and it was quite cute in usage. Or would he like a nickname such as C.C./Cece? I am very drawn to the idea of J.W. and C.C.

Would you consider Louise as the first name? I just love it. Louise -eadows. I would want that name for myself. Maybe Louise Catherine -eadows.

Or Willa, if this is your last child and you’d like to honor Grandpa William either way. Willa Catherine -eadows, or Willa Louise -eadows.

I wonder if you’d want to name her Margaret and use Margo as the nickname? It feels like a much smaller issue to me if the nickname doesn’t go perfectly with the surname. You’d also have cute options such as Daisy, Greta, and Maggie. I realize I have gone from “ignoring your preference for avoiding a nickname” to “deliberately adding EXTRA nicknames for EXTRA confusion,” and I am trying to quit it but on the other hand I just love this. Margaret -eadows?? TOO WONDERFUL. I’d use Louise as the middle, and die happy. Margaret Louise -eadows; John Walker and Margaret Louise; John and Margaret; J.W. and Margo/Maggie/Daisy/Greta. I can’t write anymore, I am too overwhelmed by how much I love this.

Name update:

Hello! I just realized that I never sent in an update to my naming conundrum from a couple of months back. Wouldn’t you know it – after all those sleepless nights mulling over what to name what I was SURE was our baby girl, our second son was born on December 6. We named him Edward James, Eddy for short. I absolutely love his name – classic but unexpected and uncommon. Thanks again for all of your wonderful advice!

Hi Swistle.

I’ve enjoyed reading examples of your expertise, and I hope you’ll be able to bestow some on us as well.

We are expecting a baby girl in January… a long pined for baby sister after two older brothers. For as long as we have desired this girl, you would think we would have a name ready to use! But the opposite has proven to be true…finding the “perfect” name has been difficult due to the pressure.

Our two boys both have family maiden names as their first name and family first names as their middle names: Crosby Stephen and Miller James.

My original desire was for our girl name to assuredly sound feminine while also honoring a family member(s). Our original top two contenders were Lula or Evelyn, but do to unsolicited negative feedback from both of our parents, we’ve fallen out of love with those.

Lately, we are liking Lanier. Although not officially a family name, it seems that it could “count” as a spin-off of Lane which is a family name. (Or is this too far of a stretch?). One concern, however, is whether or not it sounds feminine enough. What are your thoughts? I do like that “Lanier” matches our boys in terms of having surnames as first names.

Additionally, I love the name Phoebe as a middle name (after my mom), but my husband does not love the idea of having of using a family name that is THAT close to us (relationally and generationally).

Do you think Lanier Phoebe Thorson is too much of a mouthful? Or could we go the Phoebe Lanier Thorson route and still call her Lanier?

Or do you have any other suggestions to add to the pot??

Thanks so much,

Melissa

I was not sure how to pronounce the name Lanier, so I looked it up: luh-NEER. It sounds slightly more feminine than masculine to me, and the spelling looks slightly more feminine than masculine to me, but not enough to make me confident. In the U.S. in 2015, there were 9 new baby girls and 5 new baby boys named Lanier.

People are going to be all over the spectrum on this, but for me, if Crosby and Miller are the actual family surnames, I would not feel satisfied with Lanier-which-is-similar-to-Lane for the third child. I would, however, strongly consider the name Lane. The nickname Laney gives you a prettier and more girlish option for everyday use. Lane Evelyn would be pretty, and give you Laney-Lyn as well. I’ve found, too, that I call Elizabeth by a lot of middle names that aren’t hers: for example, Elizabeth Louise, Elizabeth Sue, Elizabeth Marie, Elizabeth Josephine. I can picture you calling her Laney-Lou and getting a little of that Lula sound you liked.

Another option is to use Evelyn Lane and wait for the grandparents to come around. I’m sorry they ruined the name for you. I wish people would not do that, when generational differences in naming styles are so standard: your parents presumably didn’t want to use THEIR parents’ naming style either. I am already practicing keeping my mouth shut about my grandchildren’s names, and trusting that I will come around. (And that even if I never do come around, the name is STILL not my decision.)

I like Phoebe, and it seems very pleasing to honor your mother. Are your first two children’s family names much more distant? Was your husband’s mother’s/father’s/brother’s/sister’s name ruled out at some point, so that he feels it wouldn’t be fair to use a closer name from your side?

I don’t think Lanier Phoebe Thorson is too much of a mouthful, or that you would very often say the whole name aloud like that. I like Lane Phoebe Thorson even better. I see no advantages and several disadvantages to switching to Phoebe Lanier Thorson and calling her Lanier.

For more options, I’d point you back to the family tree. Since both boys have all family names, I would place a high priority on doing the same for this baby. Normally I prefer names of relatives who are known by and special to the parents—but if your husband prefers some distance, that works in your favor by giving you more generations to look through.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!!
Our baby girl was born this week, and we are smitten with all 9 lbs 2 ounces of her.  We ended up going with the honor name of Phoebe (maternal grandmother’s first name) Lane (paternal grandmother middle name) Thorson. Thanks so much for the help of yours and your readers’ suggestions!!!

Best,

Melissa Thorson

Hi Swistle,

I love your blog! As a fellow baby-name enthusiast I’m surprised at how hard I find naming my own babies to be, though. I have one son, Everett, who we call Ev most of the time. I’m now expecting another baby in January. (We’re keeping the gender a surprise.) Our last name is P0tter.

We are pretty set on our boy names, but while brainstorming baby girl names, I’ve returned again to the same or similar names many times. None have really felt exciting to me or like The One–maybe because I’ve been thinking about this too long! The names on my list are:

Nina
Lila
Isla
Annabel (family name but my enthusiasm for this one is waning)

As I mentioned all of these have been on my list for a long time. I’d say in general they are representative of our style for girls–feminine, classic but not necessarily traditional. (I also love nature names but feel those would be better in a middle slot.)

But I’ve just recently thought of a new-to-me name that I’m excited about: Romy

I really like it! I can see it on a little girl, a teenager, and an adult woman with many different careers. I think it’s feminine though my husband (who also likes it) says it feels a bit unisex to him. (Generally I’m not into unisex names.) But I’m nervous about it being a flash-in-the-pan choice for me. I guess I’ve been thinking about it so much I just don’t trust my instincts right now (plus, hormones).

Would love your thoughts on the name Romy and if it seems like an outlier, and general advice or assurances about knowing when a name is right.

Thank you!

It is so hard to know if a name will endure or if it’s a passing enthusiasm. I’d love to say that if you give the name to a child, that will cement it into place: even if the name WOULD HAVE been a passing enthusiasm, using it on a child locks it in. And I do think that’s USUALLY the case—but we’ve heard too many stories of name regret to count on it as a sure thing.

There are two rules of thumb I used to figure this out for my own babies’ names. The first was to give it the literal test of time: there were plenty of names that I liked for a few hours or a few days or a couple of weeks, but far fewer that endured. This test doesn’t work if you think of a name a week before your due date, but in this case you have a few months. I would just let the name simmer and see if your feelings for it grow stronger or weaker.

The second rule of thumb I used is the one you mention: I’d check to see if the name was similar to other names that had endured for me, or if it was an outlier. For years and years, the same names would appear on any baby name list I made: Elizabeth, Margaret, Clarissa, Clara, Josephine, Eloise, Eliza, etc. If I suddenly had a passion for the name Genevieve or the name Emerson, putting it with the others could give me a fairly good idea of whether I was looking at a commitment or a fling: Genevieve fits, but Emerson does not.

This isn’t to say that an outlier can’t turn out to be The One, or that you should ignore your actual feelings: that is, I wouldn’t say to myself, “The name Emerson doesn’t fit with the other names on my list, so despite my ever-increasing feelings of love, I must rule it out.” No. But I have found that IN GENERAL, a name that doesn’t go well with my Enduring Favorites is a name that is more LIKELY to turn out to be a passing crush. And since I wanted four-or-so children, and one of my naming preferences is for their names to go well together, this rule of thumb also helped me avoid painting myself into a corner: if I’d chosen an outlier name such as Emerson for a firstborn, I would have felt a little stuck.

So let’s look at your list: Nina, Lila, Isla, Annabel-but-enthusiasm-waning. The first three are very similar to each other, especially Lila and Isla. I’d say Romy isn’t a clash, but it’s not a match either. It’s not a style fit with Everett, either, but it’s so common for parents to have different naming preferences for boys/girls, that kind of thing doesn’t catch my attention the way it does with two sisters or two brothers.

Are you planning more children? If so, play around with sibling group names, using the names from your lists to name subsequent children. Whether names “go together” or not is so subjective. What do you think of Everett, Romy, and Nina? Everett, Romy, and Lila? Everett, Romy, Oliver, and Isla? And so on. If the combinations all sound good to you, then Romy is less likely to be an outlier for you, and unlikely to leave you feeling stuck.

And I’d love to hear commenters’ stories of how they figured it out, as well as specific examples of times a name was/wasn’t a passing fancy.

Name update:

Hi Swistle,

I wrote a couple months ago wondering about how to tell if a name is just a passing fancy–specifically, I was newly smitten with the name Romy.

Well, we did end up having a girl! And it took us a full week to finally choose her name. I was actually thinking I liked Nina best, but when she was born she looked nothing like a Nina. We tried Romy out (we both still liked it a lot) and Sylvie and even Winona for a few hours. But we finally chose a name we thought suited her best, and which actually was another recent addition to the name list, very different in style than I would have normally been drawn to. Ultimately it just felt right–which is the feeling I wanted while name hunting before she was born, but probably isn’t possible (for me at least!) until the baby arrives!

Here she is: Georgia Francesca. We love her name! Thanks to you and your readers for your help.

Best,
Krista

Hi Swistle!

I’m due with our second baby in February and we have basically nothing for a name. We are not finding out the sex, so we need to come up with two names. I have great confidence in your very-similar-to-mine taste and suggestions!

The boy’s name we had picked out last time isn’t on the list any more for a couple of reasons, so we’re starting from absolute scratch.

My daughter’s name is Eleanor Margaret [my last as second middle] [husband’s last as last name]. My last name rhymes with Lackey and his last name is a verb starting with B which also eliminates “C. Montgomery” as an option for a name, if you catch my drift. We haven’t actually discussed last names this time around but it was a painful conversation last time and I haven’t decided if that’s the hill I want to die on yet.

If it’s a girl, I’d like to use Elizabeth as the first middle name. We’re not settled on a middle name if it’s a boy, but I’d like to use a family name. Thomas is an option there, but a lot of the first names I like for boys also end in S and I feel like with a last name that also ends in S, that’s too many s-sounds.

Names I like a lot but am waffling on or can’t use:

Lucy (LOVE this name but it was my childhood cat’s name, can’t decide if that’s too weird, have obsessively read previous letters on your site with this issue and still haven’t reached a conclusion)
Nicholas (unconvinced about the multiple S ending issue)
Caroline (this has been a recent one that’s hanging around when I think about names)
Amelia (too popular?)
Louisa (not sure about that S in the middle with the s-ending last name, since they’re both z-ish sort of Ss.)
James (husband’s name is Jamie)
Benjamin (love this name but don’t love it with his last name)

I like a million names that start with E (Evan, Emmett, Elliot, Evelyn, Eloise, you get the idea) but I much prefer the idea of separate initials for the kids. Many names that I like my husband rejects as “Too British” (despite the fact that I AM BRITISH) so I feel like I’m somewhat limited in my preferred options. He likes pretty classic, easy to pronounce names. No noun names, since that would make a sentence with his last name!

I had Eleanor’s name picked out for like ten years before we had her and I feel bad this kid isn’t going to get such a carefully chosen name! I also kind of regret using up Margaret (my mother’s name) on Eleanor’s middle name, because I really like Maggie as a nickname.

Help!

Sarah

Let’s start with girl names. With Eleanor, my favorite from the Waffle list is Louisa. The mid/ending repeating Z-sound is right up my alley: for me it’s a point in the name’s favor. Eleanor Margaret and Louisa Elizabeth makes me heart-eyed. I don’t even feel motivated to search for more options; I feel motivated to start pressuring you to use my choice. But fine, let’s find some more options:

Claudia Elizabeth; Eleanor and Claudia
Cordelia Elizabeth; Eleanor and Cordelia
Genevieve Elizabeth; Eleanor and Genevieve
Lydia Elizabeth; Eleanor and Lydia
Millicent Elizabeth; Eleanor and Millicent
Rosemary Elizabeth; Eleanor and Rosemary
Sylvia Elizabeth; Eleanor and Sylvia
Winifred Elizabeth; Eleanor and Winifred

I think Caroline is a very good option, too.

But…Louisa! Louisa.

For boys, hmm. I love Evan and Emmett and Elliot from the Prefer Not to Duplicate Initials list (and would add Everett), and I love Nicholas and James and Benjamin from the Waffle list. The s-ending of Nicholas doesn’t bother me with the surname, because the surname is more of a Z-sound; but I too find it non-ideal if the middle name is Thomas. Still, I’d go ahead and use it if it’s your favorite: I LIKE middle names to sound nice with the other names, but it’s one of the first preferences I let go of if there’s a conflict. I have a little more trouble with James B____s: both one-syllable names, and then both ending in the Z-sound. More possibilities:

Albert Thomas; Eleanor and Albert
Calvin Thomas; Eleanor and Calvin
Charles Thomas; Eleanor and Charles
Franklin Thomas; Eleanor and Franklin (too Roosevelt, I suppose, but I still dig it)
Frederick Thomas; Eleanor and Frederick
Henry Thomas; Eleanor and Henry
Louis Thomas; Eleanor and Louis
Nathaniel Thomas; Eleanor and Nathaniel
Paul Thomas; Eleanor and Paul
Simon Thomas; Eleanor and Simon
Wesley Thomas; Eleanor and Wesley

Charles has an ending-Z sound too, but I left it on the list because it bothers me less when the names differ in number of syllables. Also because when I thought “Eleanor and Charles,” my heart started banging harder.

If the middle name doesn’t have to be Thomas, I recommend the surprisingly fresh and underused John. Maybe something like John Everett or John Elliot.

Name update:

A super-delayed update!

I tried really hard to convince my husband about Louisa, but he was absolutely convinced that it would be perpetually confused for Louise and couldn’t be swayed, and I don’t like Louise nearly as much. We ended up with a favourite girl’s name each (his was Amelia, mine was Lucy) and a compromise name that we both liked fairly well (Caroline), and had decided to abandon our separate-initials preference if it was a boy and go with Elliot, despite my months-long campaign for Theodore and my preference for Nicholas.

I was never really 100% sold on Elliot, so I was relieved (and delighted!) when it turned out to be a second girl! Almost instantly when she was born my husband said she was definitely not an Amelia, we quickly determined that she wasn’t a Caroline either, and so Lucy Elizabeth (my last) (his last) she is, born on Galentine’s Day (February 13). I’m delighted, and after a couple of comments here and there everyone’s totally over the cat thing. Eleanor and Lucy feel like a great sister set (Eleanor has trouble with Ls so she calls her “Yucy”), and my husband is thrilled to never have to discuss baby names ever again. I honestly expected to have two boys since we had such a hard time with boys names, so having two girls with names I absolutely love is a complete joy! (On top of all the other reasons I’m happy to have a pair of sisters.)

A huge thank you to everyone in the comments, and apologies for the lateness of this update!