Hi, Swistle! I am newly pregnant with our fourth and final (FOR REAL THIS TIME) baby. You helped us previously with our daughter’s initials and our second son’s name so we trust your judgement!

Each of our kids is named for something we love. Our son Atticus for To Kill A Mockingbird, our daughter Elm for the summer camp in the woods where we met and got married, and our son Orion for the stars my mother always pointed out to me as a child. So that puts quite a bit of pressure on this baby’s name to also have special meaning.

I like the idea of picking something from a new “category” with literature, nature, and space already covered. We love the arts and sciences, I’ve thought of trying to pick something from music, history (especially strong American females given the current political climate), poetry, science, geography, or movies. My husband’s family is Scottish and he has a very Scottish middle name so something with Gaelic or Scottish ties could be another fun option. Really we’re wide open for suggestions! The only hard and fast rules are that it is easily pronounced on sight and fairly unique. We haven’t decided whether or not to find out the sex beforehand so we will pick both a boy and a girl name.

Thank you so much for your help, I can’t wait to hear what you and your readers come up with!

Amy W

Edited to add:

I was dead set on waiting to find out the sex but in the ultrasound room with all 3 kids begging to know, I caved. And it’s a girl! We’re thrilled. This means I can tell you that the boy name we picked was from your comments- it would have been Ulysses James. I liked Ulysses when several people mentioned it here and then fell in love with it after reading the Tennyson poem. I would have loved to use it, so someone else definitely should!

We had also picked a girl name from your comments, Iris, but after seeing its popularity compared to our other kids’ names when the 2016 list came out we decided against it. We both liked the name but neither of us LOVED it enough to use it despite its climb. So we have now picked a girl’s name much like our older daughter’s- one syllable, not overly feminine, nature-related.

So now the problem is finding a middle name to go with it. Elm’s middle name is Elizabeth, which is my middle name too and was my great grandmother’s name. I like three things about this combination: 1. The sound of the multiple syllables after a short first name, 2. A more obviously girl name after a unisex first name, and 3. A more common name after an obscure first name (which I feel like gives her an option when she’s older if she decides she’d rather go by her middle.)

We don’t have any other easy family names to use so are just looking for something that flows nicely and would love any suggestions!

Thank you as always for helping name our babies. We love going through the comments and read all of them together!

Xox
Amy

Name update:

Hi Swistle! I wrote to you early in my pregnancy about naming our fourth and last baby. We went through every comment and changed our minds on both first and middle several times (Zelda! Iris! Something unpronounceably Scottish!) but finally settled on Lark Genevieve. She’s named for a poem we love, The Lark Ascending, and it fits her perfectly. Thank you and your readers so much, our posts to you will always be a special and fun thing to look back on from our baby naming years!

Amy W.

Hi Swistle!

I am such a fan of your site, advice, and writing.

I am now pregnant with my first and stuck on a boy’s name. There are many girl’s names that my husband and I both like but boys names are harder for us.

If the baby were a girl, we would be in the neighbourhood of Vera, Eleanor, maybe Margot.

Some of the boys’ names we like are relatively classic but feel plain like William, Benjamin, maybe Leo.

My husband’s last name is Carruthers (spelled with an o in place of the u here) and my last name sounds like Hair-ick (spelled with an “rr” in please of the “ir”, and no hyphen).

For the longest time I’ve thought that my last name would make such a solid name for a boy. Nickname Harry possibilities, and paired with my husband’s Scottish/Irish sounding last name the combination of Hair-ick Carruthers sounds very proper.

However there are two issues with this.

One is that, well, my maiden name is still my last name. Although I always thought I would end up changing it, it felt weird-ish when we got married to just have a different name all of a sudden and the hassle of having to fill out so much paperwork from so many separate government offices wasn’t exactly enticing. If we did go with this name, would I probably have to change my last name?

Finally the harsh sound of going from the first name ending in ‘ick to beginning the last name with the hard “C” sound in Carr- might, I think, be problematic. I’m not sure but wanted your take on it.

My husband agrees that it would be a nice name for a boy but we’re both stuck on these two issues.

Appreciate your wisdom!

xx
Michelle

Oh, what an interesting question. I have mulled it over a bit and here is my own personal feeling about it, in two parts:

1. No, you would not have to change your own surname.
2. In fact, I think it makes it better if you don’t.

It may occasionally result in brief confusion—but, it seems to me, always FUN brief confusion, with a FUN (and easy) explanation. And I love the way it points out that your son’s name is your two surnames combined. It takes something I love (maiden names used as first names) and EMPHASIZES it.

The -ck/C- issue is fine with me. I find I pretty easily start putting a tiny pause in there, and also it feels like a minor and Worth It kind of issue.

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

I have a naming update for you from many millennia ago (3 years, ha). We were debating H@rrison or H@rrick (my last name), I made a little deal with myself that if the baby’s hair was dark I would name him H@rrick (my last name) and if his hair was light, I would name him H@rrison. I am a brunette and my husband is blonde, and he came out with a bunch of very light hair so H@rrison it was. It suits him and we call him Harry about 80% of the time.

THEN about two years later I shockingly got pregnant with boy/girl twins. I was IN LOVE with Harvey but Harry and Harvey is way too matchy to be in a sib set so I scrolled and scrolled looking for a boy’s name that could either end in a “-y” sound or be made into a “-y” nickname because I love nicknames. Finally I came across the name Sulliv@n and it felt magical, that was it for sure. Now the girl’s name. With two last-name names I wasn’t sure what to do and we went into the hospital with two names, Vada and M@eve. After about 24 hours my husband tried calling the baby Vada and it just felt wrong so M@eve it was. I love that they both have a V in their name but are in general pretty different sounding. Naming was the best part of being pregnant and I wish I could do it again! (but not that much ;)

Dear Swistle:
Do you think names can be haunted — or at least have good vibes/bad vibes?

When I was pregnant with my daughter, Margot, I brought up Arthur as a possible boy name with my husband. He vetoed it without giving it much thought, and we selected another boy option at the time (which I no longer like).

However, since we had our daughter, Arthur just keeps coming up for me as a solid boy name (we are not pregnant now but hope to be soon). Part of it is that I’ve been having trouble coming up with boy name that compliments Margot’s sound and feel as well as I think Arthur does.

I always joke about Arthur when we discuss names casually, and my husband has not outright vetoed it this time around, so I keep bringing it up. I will say I’m not 100% sold on it, just like it very much and can’t think of a better option.

Then, open to other possibilities, I decided to go through some family genealogy records, and was looking through the names of my grandma’s siblings (12 of them). I was not familiar with all of them because many of them were born in Italy and were much older than my grandmother, who was born in the U.S. and was among the youngest in her family.

Well, I was shocked to see that my grandmother had not one but TWO brothers named Arthur, both who died young. One died as a young child in Italy and another died in infancy in the U.S. I never remember her talking about them, because they died before she was born. I don’t know the circumstances surrounding these deaths, other than the knowledge that infant mortality was common at that time.

My first instinct was that I could not use the name, because it means the name somehow has “bad vibes” — or might doom a new child to a negative outcome. But I brought it up to my husband and a good friend, and they both said, this is more reason to use it! This name is trying to be used, it has more meaning now, etc. Another friend, however, said, no, no, no! She couldn’t use it, and I feel that way sometimes, too.

So now I am left with a husband who is more open than ever to this name I’ve been lobbying for, but I’m unsure myself. I will say this grandmother was particularly special to me, and her mother’s name (Margarita) was a partial inspiration for Margot (or more like an affirmation that this was indeed the right name).

Grandma’s name was Edna, which I just couldn’t get myself to love enough to use, but I have thought of Ed-variations for boys that have some similar qualities to Arthur, like Edwin. But my husband’s last name (which we will use) is a two syllable name that ends in -en, so I tend not to like a lot of boy first names that share this pattern. I don’t know why, but I’m not into Edward. Maybe just too familiar.

What are your thoughts? Is this family tree a “sign” that I should use Arthur — especially since I keep coming back to this in my mind the last several years? Or a sign that it’s time to move on? I know many people use the names of deceased relatives, but this feels a little different.

If suggesting alternatives, I’ll just note that I love more vintage/literary/romantic sounding names. Hubby is open to lots of styles, but seems to like clean, but snappy sounding names, with a more modern-leaning feel. I think we hit the right balance with Margot – and maybe Arthur too?

We like Everett for a middle name, even though it is trendy, as this is in his family history and I think it goes really well with Arthur. Arthur Everett – en.

Short answer: no, I don’t think a name can be haunted.

A name certainly can develop bad associations for a particular person. If I date a terrible person and he leaves me needing extensive therapy, probably his name is always going to give me an unpleasant feeling even if I encounter it on someone else who is a completely nice and excellent human being. And when people write in and say, “Can I use this name even though it’s the name of my estranged relative who did some terrible thing that scarred the entire family?,” I advise against it: I don’t like the idea of giving a name to a child KNOWING other people will shudder about it.

But that is not what we’re dealing with here. Thinking of a few people in my own family tree who had sad/premature deaths (a great-aunt who died as a teenager of a sudden illness; another great-aunt who died as a child of an illness that is now preventable with a vaccine; an uncle who died in infancy; a great-grandmother who died in her forties during a routine surgery), I find their names very usable—and in fact, as your husband does, I feel it makes the names MORE usable. Thinking on it further, I’d say this: death in itself, even early/sad death, may increase the reason/motivation to use the name; it’s the person’s actions while alive that can be a dealbreaker.

I admit it gives me pause to hear that TWO brothers named Arthur both died. I think that mix of unusual elements might be what gives it that hint of fairy tales and curses. Is it the same for you? That is, if your grandmother had lost one brother named Arthur, would you feel less uncomfortable? And yet I still don’t believe a name can be haunted, or that the fates of two other users of this name would affect your child’s own fate.

I think in the end it’s going to boil down to individual, subjective feelings, and in this case I mean yours and your husband’s: everyone else might have brief feelings or reactions, but likely nothing with a deep-down lifelong impact. Your husband feels positively about using the name, so now we turn to you. Do you find that you are trying to talk yourself INTO the name, or OUT OF the name? Do you find yourself hoping we’ll say not to use it, or hoping we’ll dismiss the concerns? Do you find that you are TRYING to feel uncomfortable about it (i.e., feeling as if it OUGHT to bother you), or do you find that you are trying NOT to and yet still having trouble shaking it? When you think of the name, do you get an automatic little rush of happiness, or an automatic little shudder?

If you find you are trying to reason your way out of being bothered about it but you still ARE bothered, then it may be that this name is just not going to work. If instead you are persisting in liking the name but worry that it ought to feel weird or that it might BE weird, then I say brush off those concerns and use the name. I think it’s sweet to honor those relatives and to keep the name in the family tree.

To sum up: I do think a name can give particular people an unpleasant feeling because of associations they have with that name, but I do not think a name can be in itself some sort of bad-luck charm, or that a name could doom a child to a bad end. Nor do I think finding deaths in a family tree is a sign that you SHOULD use the name, or that the name itself is trying to make you use it. I think in the vast majority of cases, choosing a baby name is an activity devoid of supernatural influences or effects.

In this case, where you have plenty of time, I’d advise leaving Arthur on the list for now and seeing how you feel about it as time goes on and as other name candidates are considered. From my own point of view, it is certainly okay to use the name, and in fact appealing—but what will matter is how you personally feel about it.

Name update:

Dear Swistle:
I am the person who originally posted, “Can a name be haunted?” while considering names for a future baby boy. Well, I am now pregnant with an actual baby boy (due in Dec) and wanted to share an update (and get some final feedback?).

When we learned we were pregnant with a boy, we spent a few months looking through a ton of name possibilities, but have kept coming back to Arthur. I definitely think it’s The Name and my hubby has come fully around to it too. It’s funny because now that I’m considering it for real, I am not worried about negative connotations and it doesn’t feel spooky at all! It just feels right.

One of the things that helped me come around was one of your readers sharing that in Jewish tradition, the meaning of the middle name could help offset a first name associated with a deceased individual. For whatever reason, this helped me feel “in control” of the meaning of the name as a whole.

Another reader had suggested Wells as a good first name match with Margot, but at the time, I didn’t love the name on its own merits (or as a first name) and didn’t make much of the comments.

Recently, as I dug into the middle name options a bit more (and re-read the post on your blog), it struck me that Wells = the initials of all of this baby’s great grandfathers (Wilbur, Elmer, Lyle and Stanley)! What!? And the connotation with well-being, spring/stream (of life?) has made it seem almost too perfect for this particular situation. It also works really well with our last name.

I just wanted to share because I was really struggling with boy names for a long time and had so many other options for girl names that made me much more excited. I never thought I’d get to “love” with a boy name and second child, but here we are!

We are reserving space to change our minds if the name just doesn’t seem right for the little guy, but Arthur Wells is the tentative plan.

Thanks so much for the part you played in helping us sort this out!

Hi Swistle,

We are (unexpectedly) expecting our second child, a boy. Our last name sounds like Chelsea. In the past, we’ve held to some (ahem) convoluted naming requirements, but we picked our daughter’s name easily—Eleanor (nn Ellie) Jane Lee Chelsea. We are leaning heavily towards naming the baby after Husband’s deceased father, David.

So, here is the dilemma. I have four names (first, second, and two last names that are not hyphenated). Husband has four names (First, two middle names, last name). Daughter has four names, as shown above. If we name the baby after his father (David), and we honor my beloved grandfather by using his middle name (Leo), then the baby’s name is David Leo Chelsea, which is almost exactly his father’s name (David Lee Chelsea). I like the name! I like it quite a bit! It honors people both very special to us that we miss terribly! I find it really pleasing and it makes me happy!

But it bugs me that we would all have four names, and this baby would only have three. But Husband is insistent that If the first name is David, then the second name is Leo, and that’s where we stop. It also bugs Husband that David is a perpetually popular name. I have a name that was in the top 20 the year I was born and I cannot move without tripping over people my age with my name. It can be a bit annoying at times, or at least, it was in school.

The other thing that slightly bothers me about David Leo is that we gave our daughter her first name precisely because it was her own name. No one in our family has the name Eleanor; it’s all hers. The middle names are family names. Plus, we picked Eleanor because of a historical reference (Eleanor of Aquitaine) and a sci-fi reference (Dr. Ellie Arroway, Contact). But David is obviously a special name, so this baby would not get his “own” first name. It all just feels very much like we are changing the rules, and if there’s anything I like, it’s a rule.

Oh, the last thing that bothers me a bit about David is that my family are habitual nickname givers, and no, it’s not a battle I am interested in fighting. It’s a family quirk and leave it at that. They will tack an –e sound on to a name for a nickname, every time, so David becomes Davey, which I do not like.

As much as we like the name, David Leo is not set in stone, hence us fretting to you. We are considering using my grandfather’s first name, Bernard (nn Ben), and then David would be a middle name. BUT, that still gets at my problem of not having his “own” name for a first name. Added to that, then I feel guilty for not just using David as the first name, because if we’re going to have an honor name as a first name, then I really feel like it should be Husband’s father. On the other hand, if the first name is Bernard, then I probably get my wish of four names, and it would be Bernard David ??? Chelsea, which pleases my pattern loving soul.

THEN, my husband threw out the other day that he loves the name Harrison, in honor of the clockmaker, John Harrison, who solved the problem of calculating longitude at sea. So, it would be Harrison David ??? Chelsea. I really like Harrison, because it has the historical reference and a nod to a sci-fi reference. But does that make everyone think of Harrison Ford? Plus, I still feel guilty for not using David as a first name in this scenario; that’s how close Husband and his father were.

Bonus: our daughter is insisting on the names Edgar or Isaac. So: Is David Leo okay when that means this kid has three names and the rest of us have four? Is it weird that David Leo is SO CLOSE to my deceased but beloved father in law’s name? Is David way too popular? Is this kid going to feel left out that he didn’t get his own name and got an honor name instead? Is there another name that’s just a better fit?

This is needlessly complicated. Help us, Swistle, you’re our only hope.

This is the kind of situation where I KNOW it doesn’t really matter, and I want to TELL you it doesn’t really matter—but I CAN’T, because it would matter to me TOO.

I generally don’t even care what the parents’ names are doing, when considering their kids’ names. But in this case…well, I find I want you to give him four names. I just do. I don’t think you NEED to. I don’t think you should feel as if you HAVE to. But I want you to, and I think you want to too, so I say let’s see what we can figure out.

Here’s where I figure we can start chipping away at the problem: “But Husband is insistent that If the first name is David, then the second name is Leo, and that’s where we stop.” Solution: first name will not be David. That releases us immediately from that difficult if/then. Alternate solution: he stops insisting on the if/then. It’s an unnecessary rule, and it’s causing problems. But since it bothers both you and your husband that the name David is so steadily popular, I think it makes more sense to go with the first solution. If instead he is firm on David being the first name, then I don’t see any reason he shouldn’t give a little on the issue of two middles.

Also, it bothers you that you deliberately decided against family names for your daughter’s first name, but this time would be reversing yourselves. I don’t think you NEED to be consistent with this, but since you seem to WANT to, I’d go with that flow: I’d make David and Leo the middle names and pick something else for the first name.

Also, the nicknames for David bother you. And you are not sure you like the name being so close to your late father-in-law’s name. Really the only argument I’m seeing here in favor of using three names is that your husband was very close to his late father. I release you from feeling that this must be symbolically represented in your son’s first name. It isn’t necessary: the closeness abides, regardless of your son’s name.

Harrison David Leo Chelsea is the perfect name to go with Eleanor Jane Lee Chelsea. I declare it so. Or, if you prefer, you can think of something you like better than Harrison. Isaac is nice, with the science (Isaac Newton) and science fiction (Isaac Asimov).

Name update:

Hi Swistle!

We had our little boy this past weekend: Josiah David Leo Chelsea. We call him Joss for short, and he seems very happy to be here. Thank you for your help–it helped us get on the path to his name!