Dear Swistle,

I’ve been following you for years, figuring I would never have a reason to write to you–but here I am! Our third girl (and last baby) is due in early August, and I am super resentful to be writing this letter because until two weeks ago we HAD a name for her, but it was stolen!

My kids have my husband’s last name, sounds like M@rcus but with a k instead of a c. My husband is Nathan and I am Shannon. I kept my maiden name, which is not usable as a first name. We love names that feel ancient, storied, and European, though we aren’t particularly strict about that. More than anything, we like unique names.

Our daughters are Clio Evangeline (6) and Melusine Rose (4). Since my second daughter was born, I feel like people really react to both of their names with great interest. They want to know who the girls are named after, and I am always excited to talk about Kleio the Greek muse of history and Melusine from French mythology. That said, I don’t care so much about having a big cultural rationale for my third daughter’s name; I happened on both of these names by accident while idly reading up on other names.

So now here’s the problem. We’ve known this baby was a girl since shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed (routine genetic testing). The same day we got the news of her sex, I happened on the name Saskia and FELL IN LOVE. I love that it has strength and sass. I love that there aren’t already 12 of them in my kids’ elementary school. I love that, like Clio and Melusine, it’s outside the top 1000 for girls born in recent years. I love that this would mean we had one Greek name, one French, and one Germanic/Slavic. I LOVE THIS NAME.

Stupidly, I mentioned it to my brother’s wife, who is also expecting a baby due a few weeks from now. She has three other children whose names are all in the top 20, so I felt that it was safe to talk about it–there is just not much overlap between her style and mine. Of course, you can guess what happened next. She came to me two weeks ago and confessed that she too has fallen in love with the name Saskia, and asked whether I would mind if the cousins “shared” it.

YES I MIND. We spend a lot of time with my family, and I am not comfortable with having to distinguish our kids when we call out loud for one of them. (If I wanted that, I’d name her Sophie or Caroline!) But I had no choice but to give my SIL my blessing for her to use the name if she wants to. And since she is due first, I am almost positive that she will.

So……..what do I do now? I still love the name, but there is an angry red tinge to my love now. There is a small (1%) chance my SIL will not use the name, but she has already shared her intentions with others, so I think she will. I don’t want my daughter to share it with her cousin.

It seems that we have to switch, but I am stumped. I don’t have a backup name. Do you happen to have any in your back pocket? Names you don’t recommend often because they seem too weird/esoteric for other letter writers? Please help.

Thank you so much!

Shannon

This is a heartbreaking disaster. I am wondering if there is any room here to go back to your brother and sister-in-law and say “When you asked if I minded if the cousins shared the name, I was taken off-guard and said I didn’t. But I should have clarified that the cousins wouldn’t be sharing the name: if you use it, that takes it off the table for us.” I feel like your brother and sister-in-law should have the information that this is not a matter of BOTH of you getting to use the name. It might not change their decision about what to name their baby, but if I were them I would really, really, REALLY want to know what the consequences would be of that decision, instead of thinking it’s all settled and there are going to be two same-age little Saskia cousins calling themselves The Saskia Squad and so forth, and then being shocked and dismayed a couple months later when you don’t name your baby Saskia, and then realizing it was because of them. (Unless there is some specific reason you haven’t mentioned, such as that your sister-in-law is 100% in charge of naming babies with no input from your brother, I think it’s important that we keep in mind your brother’s involvement in this and not put it all on your sister-in-law.)

Because there are two issues here: one issue is that someone else is using the name you planned to use; the other is that you’re not okay with a duplicate within the family. Your sister-in-law asked about the second thing, but you answered her as if she was asking about the first thing, and I think it could have made a significant difference in how this is going to play out. For the first issue, I say there is no such thing as “stealing” a name (though, boy, this situation puts me the closest I have ever been willing to use that verb), since a name can be used by as many people as want to use it, and you would not be the first ones to use Saskia either, and so on—and so you will get all my pained sympathy but none of my avenging anger (though, again: I’ve got to say, it’s not as if the name in question was Sophia, and the uncommonness of the name really makes a difference to me). But that brings us to the second issue: there are people who avoid duplicate names at all costs, and on the other end of the spectrum there are people who constantly recommend their own children’s names to other people because they love duplicates, and both extremes and everything in between are perfectly reasonable preferences to have. And you are someone who avoids duplicate names at all costs, and your brother and sister-in-law are apparently near the opposite end of the spectrum, and THAT is where I think we need to see if there is hope.

I want to find a way to give your brother and sister-in-law the following information about the name: that actually you DO mind if the two cousins share it; and in fact, sharing Will Not Happen. I am someone who likes duplicate names (though if I think about it, I think I like it only if I am the one who used the name first), and if I knew someone else was the same, I would feel happy about our kids sharing a name. But if I knew someone else was an avoid-duplicate-names-at-all-costs person, I wouldn’t feel happy about our kids sharing a name, because I’d know the other person was unhappy about it and possibly resenting my child for having that name. It just makes a huge difference, and I would REALLY WANT TO KNOW. And from your letter, it sounds as if your sister-in-law was going directly for this second issue with her question: she didn’t ask if you minded if she and your brother used the name for their baby, she asked if you minded if the cousins SHARED the name. And you DO mind. You mind VERY, VERY MUCH. But what you SAID is that you DON’T mind, so right now SHE THINKS you don’t. She may be like “Yay, how great that we can use the name TOO, without stealing it away from them!”

I think you were absolutely right not to try to lay exclusive claim to the name, and I admire you for it because that is SO HARD when it’s a very unusual name and they only even KNEW about the name because you mentioned it to them. But it is okay to MIND, and it is okay to SAY you mind, if you can do it in a loving tone of voice, and in a way that makes it clear you know the difference between “telling them they can’t use the name” and “minding,” and also in a way that communicates that if they go ahead and use it anyway it’s not going to create a blood feud. I don’t know if I can come up with a good way to say it (it’s so common for me to come up with something on paper, and then try to debut it with my voice and find I have failed at writing anything close to workable dialogue), but the GIST would be something that conveys to them your deep belief that they get to name their baby what they want to name their baby, and that you know the name Saskia doesn’t belong to you—but that it is your own preference to avoid duplicate names, and so if they use the name, you won’t be using it. My hope is that they are empathetic people who understand the other end of the duplicate-name spectrum, and that this will make them re-think the decision. My fear is that without this information, they may make a decision they will regret when your true preferences come to light in August, but that by then it will be too late to do anything about it, and EVERYONE will be unhappy. (And of course they might still decide to use the name even with the new information, but then at least we will all know they went into it knowing what the situation was.)

One more thing: The worst outcome here for your brother and sister-in-law would be if they were to sacrifice their favorite name because they realize how much it means to you, and then you don’t use it after all. It doesn’t sound like that’s likely here, but I am familiar with the idea of a name getting ruined by something like this, so I wanted to mention it just in case the name was one of several finalists, and/or you feel it’s now sullied for you no matter what by this upsetting situation. If you can no longer use the name, it’s a crying shame but I’d say it means don’t go any further on this with your brother and sister-in-law, and try to be glad that at least the name is still in your life via your dear little niece.

In the meantime, let’s see if we can feel a little better by thinking about other name options. The name Saskia appears only once in The Baby Name Wizard (did everyone know there was a revised 4th edition? thank you to the readers who let me know!), and it’s in the German and Dutch section, so I’ll start there:

Aleydis
Hannelore
Hildegard
Ingrid
Liesl
Liselotte
Sigrid
Valeska
Wilhelmina

More possibilities, from other sections and additional books:

Alyona
Amaryllis
Andromeda
Anezka
Araminta
Ariadne
Artemisia
Birgitta
Circe
Clotilde
Delphina
Eliska
Esmerelda (too reminiscent of Imelda Marcos?)
Eugenia
Hephzibah
Iolanthe
Leocadia
Lysandra
Myfanwy
Octavia
Ottilie
Persephone
Sophronia (the one in Five Little Peppers was nicknamed Phronsie)
Theodosia
Verica
Xanthe
Zipporah

Name update:

Sorry this update is so long overdue — the three-kid life is NO JOKE!

As I mentioned in the comments to the original post, I did text my SIL and let her know we would not be using the name if she used it first. If it’s not obvious from my original letter, she and I are very different sorts of people and she still doesn’t get what the big deal was. In her peer group, the question is not “What will we name the baby?” but “Which of the 20 most currently popular names do we like best?” and if someone already used the name you liked, well…put it this way: at her daughter’s birthday party there were two other girls who shared the birthday girl’s name, and they all went by firstname middlename. So she didn’t see why I would prefer for my Saskia to be the only Saskia in our immediate circle.

But I digress. She did not use Saskia. It turned out she was unable to talk my brother into it anyway, and they went with the name that’s currently #10 for baby girls.

The whole drama ruined my feelings about Saskia, so we have set that name aside for a future pet, though that is a discussion for another day when I find my sea legs. Both families are DONE having kids, so this will be our last time going through all of this.

And in the meantime, Isolda Susanne joined our family on August 8, four days after her due date, and she is perfect! (But now SIL has found another way to ruffle my feathers: calling her “Izzy,” a nickname we hope doesn’t stick.)

P.S. ALSO, I would be remiss if I didn’t add that we ALMOST took one commenter’s suggestion of Bellona, which I still dearly love, until Clio (7) frowned at us and said “bologna?” obviously believing we were planning to name her sister after deli meat.

Dear Swistle,

Hello! I’ve been an avid reader for years and relied on so much of your naming advice when I was pregnant with my first in 2015. We named our son Rory Joaquin last name sounds like Out-in. We are expecting our second and final child, also a surprise, very soon–June 11. We are pretty certain of our girl name, Iris Paloma. I’m really second guessing our top contender for a boy name, Luca Ezequiel.

We chose Rory just because we liked it, and it was important for the middle to be a Spanish name to honor my Mexican heritage. Joaquin ended up being the perfect choice because it’s got geographic importance and is a family name a few generations back. We like that Rory isn’t too popular, is a name everyone is familiar with, and falls into lots of naming categories (Western, Irish/Celtic, Androgynous). We were so happy we had a boy because we never were confident with our girl name during my first pregnancy. This time around we came up with an entirely new set of girl names, and Iris Paloma manages to honor both sides of my family in interesting ways that make me really happy.

My issue with our boy name is that there’s not really a family connection to either name. We have a positive association with the name Luca after traveling to Italy in 2013, but I also worry that it’s much more popular than Rory, and wonder if it makes an imbalanced sibling set. I like Ezequiel because I love the way it sounds in Spanish, but again, I’d be choosing it just because.

Other names that made it to our short list but have been eliminated for reasons (we know people or babies with these names, they create problematic initials, would have the repeating N sound for the first and last name, or are too popular:
Adrian
Bram
Harrison
Sebastian
Wesley

Other names still in the running:
Felix (husband has been lukewarm about the name, and could not be paired with Ezequiel because initials would be problematic)
Noel (pronounced the English way, but I’m also happy with the way it sounds in Spanish, concerned it may be too confusing for other people, would probably also need a different middle)

Ultimately, I don’t know if I like either of these names any more than Luca, though at times I’ve even questioned if Luca Out-in sounds good. Do the A and the O run into each other in an unflattering way? Is my problem that I am using a stale name list for a boy after having used my two favorites on my first child? I’ve tried to find other family names for the middle, but they pale in comparison to Joaquin. The only new name I’ve come up with is Rio. It means river in Spanish, and has geographic significance, which are pluses. The possible downside is that our recently departed cat was named River, and if used as a first name it’s a repeat R first initial which I would have preferred to avoid. I don’t know if either of these should be dealbreakers.

Is it fine to choose a first and a middle for a boy just because and skip the chance of using an honor name? Have I overthought this?

Thank you so much for your consideration,

Christina and Nick Out-in

Here is the factor I would immediately eliminate from any and all consideration: That the name Rio means River, and your recently-departed cat was named River. (I too might avoid Rory and Rio, but I think Rio makes a really good middle-name candidate, and that the cat’s name is a non-issue.)

Here is the factor I would like to reassure you about: It is absolutely common for parents to use a name of family significance for a first child and have no family names left that they want to use for subsequent children. And in this case, the first child’s middle name’s significance seems sufficiently diluted; I could be way off, but it sounds from the letter more like you chose it because you liked it and it was Spanish and it had geographical importance, and then happily it also turned out to appear in your family tree. That is, it is not as if you named your first child to honor a close and beloved family member, and now feel the second child’s name should have some similar significance—though in that case, too, I’d be attempting to convince you that it really is okay to have one honor name you want to use and not have any others. But I also do love honor/family names, and so if you DID wish for a middle name of that kind of significance, I think it would be fun to look through the family tree and see if you can find anything else you like. But you have already done that, and if you CAN’T find any family names you want to use, I absolutely think it’s fine to pick something because you love it; also, I think the fact that it is Spanish means it already DOES have family significance, in that it is chosen to honor your side of the family. Have I gone back and forth enough times on this to demonstrate how much I believe you can do exactly what you PREFER here? It IS absolutely fine to choose names because you love them and not because they have family significance.

Relatedly, it is absolutely natural and makes complete sense that you would use your favorite names on your first child, and therefore have only less-favorite names left for subsequent children. Sometimes it happens that parents use their favorite name for the first child, and by the time a second child is born a NEW favorite name has risen to the same level of love as the first child’s name; but if this doesn’t happen, of COURSE the second-favorite and third-favorite (and so forth) names are less loved than the first-favorite. This, combined with the way the first child’s name has since then become fully associated with the actual child, can make parents feel as if NO name is good enough for the second child, which is why I recommend parents not make the goal to find a name they like as much as the first child’s name.

Where was I? Oh, yes: I think Rory and Luca go beautifully together. I don’t notice the popularity gap, and I like the way both names have unisex usage in the United States. I like that both have the same number of letters and syllables, and both end in vowels—not that that matters so much, just that it’s pleasingly tidy. I like that both middle names are Spanish. Really, I think you’ve done a very nice job here and that this is most likely to be last-minute cold feet.

If you WANT to keep looking, or if the name just isn’t sitting right with you, I do also like Noel from your list—though I don’t like that it makes a “lout” sound with your surname. I know it’s off your list now, but I also love Wesley. Rory and Wesley! Felix pleases me a little less because of it’s almost exclusive usage for boys. (Wesley too is not as unisex as the name Rory, but its gentle sound and vowel-ending help compensate for that.)

More possibilities:

Blake
Brennan
Brody
Carter
Casey
Connor
Ellis
Finley
Harris
Jules
Keller
Kieran
Lane
Lyle
Niall
Quincy
Shea
Spencer

You’ll notice I left on some names that don’t meet your preferences (ending in -n, too common); I thought about taking those off, but sometimes seeing one name can lead to thinking of another name, so in the end I left them all.

Name update:

Dear Swistle,

Almost a year later, I have an update. Writing to you was on my pandemic to do list.
We had a baby girl in June 2019! We named her Iris Paloma and I’m in love with her and her name. I lucked out both times getting to use the names I was most excited about. Your advice and your readers’ was helpful in calming me down about a problem that wasn’t really there. I think the beauty of your blog and community is getting to talk over naming concerns with other people who care about names at the same obsessive level. Thank you so much!!

Christina

Hi Swistle!

I am due November 16 with our second boy! Our first son’s name is Leo Iolani (pronounced e-o-lani) Pangan (sounds like penguin without the “w” sound). He shares a middle name with my husband, who is part Hawaiian. If this child were a girl, we were pretty set on using the name Eloise and calling her Ellie or Elle. However, we are pretty stumped when it comes to boy names. It is especially hard because I am a teacher and associate a lot of great names with certain students (and they’re not always positive associations!).

We have narrowed down the middle name to three possible options—all honor names. We would use Joseph after my maternal grandfather, William after my paternal grandfather, or Rey to honor my husband’s maternal grandparents whose last name was Reyes. I’m happy with all of those choices and would just choose based on what flows best with the first name.

We want a name that is semi short (or has a shorter nickname), sweet yet still strong, and unique but not too trendy. My personal favorite is Jude, but my husband has vetoed it because it’s his boss’s son’s name and he feels like he already knows Jude. I also love Henry and Will, but I feel like every kid at the park has one of those names right now. We considered Finn and Lincoln for Leo, but decided against both. The ending of Lincoln did not sound right with our last name, and Leo ended up totally being a Leo.
Below are some names with both like:
1. Arlo nn Arie/Ari (my mother responded with the puking emoji when I shared this one—she later apologized)
2. Otis (does it sound too much like a dog’s name? I’m thinking yes)
3. Kai (this is more of my husband’s choice—he likes that Leo has an Italian first name and a Hawaiian middle name and thinks it would be great if this boy was named Kai Joseph to have the opposite)
4. Xander (my husband’s new favorite)
5. Silas (I like better than my husband)
6. Ellis (my mom’s choice—if we ever did have a girl, this is a bit close to Eloise)

We are not totally sold on any of those options, but we haven’t heard anything else that pops out to us.

We may try for one more child down the road, but this could potentially be our last! We appreciate any advice or suggestions you may have! Thank you!!

1. I love the name Arlo (*reproachful look in your mother’s direction*) and wouldn’t try to get Ari out of it (though would allow it to happen naturally, if it did). Since you may have one more child, I’d think ahead of time about whether two -o endings would make you feel pressured to think of a third -o name.

2. Otis does not strike me as dog-name-ish, but I remember when I was considering the name Milo for my last child, there were a LOT of people who thought of that as a cat name, so I understand if that same segment of the population has Otis filed firmly under Dog. Still, my recurring wish is that having a name used in a movie didn’t have to rule it out for all other uses: movies often choose names that are just on the cusp of being popular again, and it’s such a shame to see good names seemingly ruined indefinitely for so many people. The movie Milo and Otis came out 33 years ago, and I feel like it shouldn’t still have dibs on those names.

3. I find Kai Pangan a little difficult to say; not enough to rule it out, but enough to think twice. I like your husband’s thinking on the symmetry, though Joseph doesn’t leap out to me as an Italian name.

4. I don’t like Xander with Pangan: it’s the repeating -an- in the first syllables, I think. But this sort of thing is extremely subjective: one person can dislike a sound for the exact reason someone else loves it.

5. I like Silas. The -s blends a little with the P- of the surname, but it doesn’t make an unpleasant or awkward sound/word. Or maybe the -s/Pangan sounds a little like “spankin’,” but on the other hand I have said it dozens of times in a row and that would not be typical usage.

6. Ellis blends quite a bit more than Silas for me, and I’m not sure why; probably it’s that the name starts with a vowel so the sounds are already softer and more blendy. I get Ella Spangan, especially since the name Ella is so much more common than the name Ellis.

From your list, then, my own clear personal favorite is Arlo, as long as it will not make you feel pressured to continue an -o theme. [Edited to add: @monabenach pointed out that Arlo and Leo are not great together. I don’t think I’d said them together; as soon as she mentioned it, I agreed. They’re tongue-tangley.]

More possibilities:

Ari (just Ari, without starting at Arlo; eliminates the repeating -o issue)
Casey
Clark
Drew
Eli
Ezra
Felix
Finley
Frank
Ford
George
Harvey
Isaac
Joel
Max
Reid
Wade

Name update:

On November 17, at 11:34pm, our sweet Silas Rey Pangan made us a family of four. Thank you so much for your wonderful comments—I read every single one! Throughout my pregnancy, we grew more and more attached to the name Silas, as our other top contender, Kai, just didn’t seem to fit the feisty little mover in my belly. When he made his grand appearance after only four pushes, we knew it was the right decision. To continue the theme of royalty, our little Leo was joined by his “King of the Forest” (Silas means “of the forest” and Rey means “king”). We couldn’t be more in love!

Hi Swistle,

I’m a lifelong name-nerd and have been reading your site for YEARS; now I can finally write in with a naming issue of my own! I am pregnant with our first child, gender unknown. However, if it’s a girl, my favorite name is Vera. Our last name is similar to “Lillibrand.” I was saying the name out loud the other day and am now worried both names will run together and sound like “virile.” Yikes. Do you think others will notice that or am I just reading into it? I just love the name so much!

I have now said “Vera Lillibrand” out loud so many times, it doesn’t sound like real words anymore. I want to wait for the kids to get home from school and have them say it aloud so I can listen and see if I hear “virile”; I’m not hearing it when I say it. The word virile has a “rull” sound that is missing from the combination of “Vera” + “Lil”—like, I can see how it ALMOST hits the right sounds, but I think it misses because “rah-lil” fails to hit the “rull” note. I think it’s a great name.

What does everyone else think?

Name update:

Hello Swistle!

As it turns out, our worries were for nothing (for this baby, anyway) as we welcomed a baby boy on December 8th, which happens to be my birthday as well! Eli George “Lillibrand” is beautiful and we are happy beyond words. Thank you everyone for your input!

Hi Swistle!

I am obsessed with your blog and have been hunting to find previous posts to help my husband and I name our second (and last) child, which is going to be a boy due in July 2019! We have a daughter who is two and her name is Maren (mar like car + in) and we call her Mari (mar like car + ee). It’s Scandinavian as a tribute to my husbands side and her middle name is Rose for my grandma. Our last name is the ever boring Anderson.

Anyways, we thought we would have two girls because well his twin brother has two girls and a lot of our friends have two girls so we were all set with a girl name, Jillian. We were going to have her middle name be Rose as well as that’s mine and it would have been a done deal. BUT, of course we found out it was a boy and we were not prepared with a name!

We spent lots of time looking at Scandinavian boy names (to go with our daughters name) but they seemed too harsh (although we do live in MN so Scandinavian names are pretty common). So we landed on Isaac, and then I had been thinking about it and thought people will for sure call him I-suck if he were getting made fun of. I took my husband off guard a bit and called an audible and thought we should start looking for another name, one that isn’t so easy to make fun of.

Other names we like are:
Wyatt
Colin
Graham( although my husband eliminated because he likes names that have nicknames)
Marcus (but we took off because too similar to Maren)
Miles (my husband doesn’t like)

Our first names are Ashley and Nick so very plain Jane and wanted to give our kids names a little unique. We feel like Colin is somewhat unexpected, but does it go with Maren? I’m worried that the names we like don’t go with Maren but Isaac did.

Last thing, the middle name we are set on is Russell after my husbands grandpa as Rose is after my grandma.

Help us!! We are super planners and feel stressed that we haven’t found a name we love!

Thank you so much!
Ashley

I know an Isaac, so I asked him about the “I suck” thing, and he says no one has come up with that yet. I don’t think it’s an issue, but perhaps more people who know/have an Isaac can weigh in. It doesn’t seem like a natural leap to me: the “zick”/”zack” sound is so different from the “suck” sound. I think Isaac Russell Anderson is a great name and you’re all set.

Name update:

Hi Swistle! Thanks for all your help with naming. Isaak Russell was born last week and we are so excited! We decided on a k at the end as that’s one of the Swedish spellings to go with Our daughters name.

Thanks again!
Ashley