F. writes:

We are expecting our first child, a boy, the first week of August, in less than a month. He is still nameless, and this starting to worry both my husband and I.

I never thought it would take me so long to name my child. I have been interested in and besotted with baby names for as long as I can remember. It’s a great honor and a huge responsibility. Exciting on a good day, and terrifying and depressing on a bad day. Thanks, pregnancy hormones.

His surname will my husband’s: it sounds like Jelens.

A few criteria: His: no L; a good one-syllable nickname. Mine: no J; something that will work (more or less) in English, German and French; not too popular, although if I fell in love with a name, I wouldn’t care.

My list has mostly old-fashioned names, some baby books might put many of them in the “Ladies and Gentlemen” section: Henry, Arthur, Walter, Willem, Casper, Homer, Theodore (Teo!). I don’t like all of these to the same degree, but you get the idea.

He has vetoed every single one of them, mainly because they’re “old man names”. (Which they’re not!)

He likes:

Joshua

Zachary (Zach). I’m the one who suggested this very early on. I’m not convinced.

Nicander (Nico, Nick). This has special significance for him. I’m warming to the idea, but I’m not sold. Is Nicander strange? Or does it sound familiar enough because of Alexander, Leander? I like Nico as a nn, but that’s getting really popular.

Kai. I’m not fully opposed. We both like its internationalism and multiple meanings.

Tyler (Ty), Skyler (Sky), Ryder (Ry)… there’s a pattern here. I’m not a fan.

We both sort of like Milo, too. I don’t object to Nicander and Kai.

The middle name might be a family name, from my side or his, depending on who got more say in the first name department. We’ll deal with that once we have a first.

For reference, my girl-list would have been: Louise, Greta, Adele, Frieda, Mathilda, Camille, Minna, Agatha. He really dislikes most of these.

His would have been: Miranda, Calliope.

I know that there will have to be a compromise. Should we scratch all these and start over? I feel like we’re all over the place. Any feedback and help from Swistle and her wonderful commentators is appreciated.

 
It seems to me that men more often than women have trouble updating what a “current” baby name is. I remember Paul’s name ideas being pretty much all the names of his former classmates.

I suggest Isaac. I think of it as “the next Zachary” (and in fact it can use Zac as a nickname), and it’s a name that occasionally gets called old-mannish even though it’s well into the Top 50. Or “the next Noah”: a name that seems biblical but is in fact already mainstreamed. Another nickname possibility is Ike, which is similar in sound to Ty, Sky, Ry, Kai. I love it with your surname: Isaac Jelens. And I think it goes well with many of the girl name possibilities, in case he has a sister some day: Isaac and Louise, Isaac and Miranda, Isaac and Mathilda.

Since you like Arthur and you both like Milo, I suggest Arlo. No good nickname, sadly.

If Arlo is a little too uncommon, I suggest Archer. It has the NOT-old-man sound of a name like Archie or Arthur, but with a surname/occupational sound that’s very current. Again, nickname problem: Archie is great, but it’s two syllables instead of one.

I think the nickname Nic/Nick saves Nicander from seeming too odd to use. Another huge plus is being able to say “Like Alexander, but with Nic instead of Alex.” This is the first time I’ve encountered the name and I don’t know if it’s nih-CAN-der or NIH-can-der (I would guess nih-CAN-der because of the Alexander model), but I think I’d only need to hear it once to remember it. If I heard it without seeing it, I’d be pretty sure I knew how to spell it; I might put a K in there, but it looks more right to me without a K.

The main consideration, I think, is future sibling names: if you name your first child Nicander, will you be painting yourself into a corner? Nicander is either completely or virtually unused in the U.S. (it’s hard to tell for sure: it isn’t in the Social Security site‘s data base for the past five years or so I looked at—but that data base doesn’t show any name used fewer than five times in a year, so there could be, say, 4 Nicanders born per year and it would look the same as if it were zero), and so if you’d like to use compatible sibling names, that will present a commonness/style-compatibility challenge right away. Nicander and Arlo might work, or maybe Nicander and Kai—but probably not Nicander and Joshua, or Nicander and Tyler. If you wanted to change the middle name concept from “family name” to “name of special significance,” Nicander might make a wonderful middle name choice—while still letting you use family names for future siblings.

Name update! F. writes:

Nicander Ferdinand “Pattner” “Jelens” was born on Aug. 4th 2011.
We decided that Nicander was familiar sounding (not made-up), and the more my husband and I talked about names, the more I grew to love it. I tested it with potential sibling names, and it seems okay to pair it with more traditional names. Most people have not had trouble with it (if they do a simple “like Alexander, or Leander” provides instant clarity). Some people think it sounds Scandinavian, and our Greek and Italian friends think it’s fabulous. (Nicander of Colophon was a Greek poet and physician, and Nicandro is an Italian patron saint.)
Ferdinand is my paternal grandfather’s middle name, Nicander is his first great-grandchild and he is tickled pink. I’ve always thought that Ferdinand was a pleasing, quirky, unconventional name. His second middle name “Pattner” is my surname.
The name fits our little Nick perfectly. He’s a happy baby, and sleeping well at night, too, which keeps his parents on the sane side.
Thanks again, Swistle and friends!

Jenn writes:

Hello!! I should have written sooner, but I don’t know – I thought we’d come to a few names on our own? But, this is not a drill… our 2nd baby will be here in 2-3 weeks; this is serious business. I don’t know how you would even publish the mess that I’m about to go through, but I’d love your help in one way or another. Even if you decide what part of my question you want to answer, I know the following is a ton. PS I said on twitter – it’s going to be convoluted, consider yourself warned – though maybe just long winded is a better description?!

Here’s our story:

Our first daughter’s name is Lilliana Avery Guarraseemo (not really our last name but close enough to give you the sound of it – I know doozy). We call her Lilli, though I always envisioned Ellie for a nickname, I know it’s a stretch. BUT L – Elle/ but since you don’t call people just one letter? Go with Elle or Ellie – anyway I’m the only one that calls her that, it never really caught on. Her name both first and middle are mixtures or derivatives of great grandmothers & grandfathers (Avery is a derivative of Alfred, for example). I LOVE the family connection, but with baby 2 just moments away, we might need to step away from that, because I need something I just love. Lily was always a name I have loved, my great grandmother, Lillian – was always a name I wanted to use. I did not, however, realize at the time how freaking popular Lily/Lilly would be – and the way we spell it kind of just happened it wasn’t meant to be annoying or different on purpose? It kind of just started to be the way we wrote it, so we aren’t really trying to take names that are spelled one way and throw a wrench in it. It’s kind of annoying considering one of things we did want was to avoid super common names (coming from a Jennifer & Christopher born in the 70s – which is everyone’s name born around then – I do believe).

Another fan favorite name was Jackson (again don’t love how popular it is) but I love the sound of Jax – and my father-in-law’s name is John – so that brought in a connection (of sorts) – and middle name to be Cole (for Coleman, my maiden name). My sister-in-law unfortunately just snagged Jack though, so it can’t be done now. But I do still love the name… for reference.

In terms of boys we were thinking: Jamison Cole (nickname: Jace) OR Owen Coleman.

I don’t know if I’m 100% on these. Apparently there is some kind of a show called 16 and Pregnant that people keep telling me about every time I say Jace… which will eventually go away – but side note, why do we put ourselves through the anguish of telling people names we are thinking?? Also, Owen is kind of popular and I would love to think of another name that ties in some kind connection to names like John or Jack that are uncommon? Although I did find something somewhere that Owen came from Evan, which actually is a version of John… which kind of in a long division/ degree of Kevin Bacon gets me my “family” connection. I could also use John as a middle name and get that connection if we need to, but not Owen John (OJ – no thanks). Owen isn’t really as long as I like a name- I love names to have TONS of nickname possibilities? I don’t know why – but it’s something I think about. That said, I am gravitating toward Owen, so maybe I’m more open to that rule than I think?

For girls, we love: Luella or Evalena.

The nickname for Luella we seem to be leaning toward Lulu – but I just feel like for our 2nd child, to have a Lilli & Lulu – it sounds like a kid’s clothing line – and for our Christmas Card we’ll all have to wear the same outfit on the beach … nothing wrong with this – but it’s not really who we are? It’s also like – can they use more than 2 letters? But I LOVE the name and I don’t know that can or want to go Ella for the nickname, again super popular? My mom’s name is Lucy, so this is a perfect connection to that. For Evalena – we love the nickname Lena… again with the L’s… it’s not ideal but I can’t walk away from them yet? We are stuck on middle names, if we use these names… though I’m open to different ones, in fact I feel like I need a dark horse to come in from nowhere.

For a middle name – I NEED some kind of variation for Mary or Claire – and Marie is NOT an option.

Names for boys & girls that we love that haven’t made the final list are:
Girls:
Sloane
Isla
Norah
Stella
Boys
Brody
Reid
Rhys
Jake
I know you said you give preference to boy OR girl name help request, but I’m not 100% on either I don’t think… and since I don’t know if it’s a boy OR a girl… I feel like I can’t choose – so if you have to choose, you go ahead and pick a section to share.

What the heck are my questions?
I basically have some names or some name thoughts, but none of them scream to me – THIS IS IT! I feel like with my first I had some strong contenders that I really thought – once we meet him/her one of these will be it – and it was. Now, I’m not sure!
I’m looking for a boy name – that is uncommon(ish), nickname possibilities are semi-important and if it had some kind connection to the name John or Joseph that would be great but I don’t think there is. Although we could maybe do middle name John in a case we pick up a totally different name.
For a girl, most certainly I need some kind of idea to tie in Mary, ideally – but not Marie. I do love Louella & Evelena as names… but again all the L’s and the nicknames might be TOO much for me so suggestions welcome.
OK – work your magic won’t you? Name my kid! (said in the same robust way as Ty Pennington in “Extreme Home Makeover” screams “Move that bus!” at the end of a makeover…

 
There are so many fun topics here, it is hard to know where to start! I will go with my impulse, which is to find a Mary-based middle name that is not Marie. Because you like Ella and Lena and Lulu, what leaps to mind is a Mary combination: Maryella, Marylena, Marylu. Depending on how far you want to go from the original name, there’s also Mara, Miriam (The Oxford Dictionary of First Names says Mary is the New Testament form of Miriam), Mair(e), Maris, Moira, Maura, Mariel, Marin, Marina. Most come from the same Latin root meaning “sea.” Maire combines Mary and Claire. I like Luella Marin and Evalena Mariel.

For the name Evalena, I suggest the nickname Evvie. It’s similar to Ellie without the Lilli/Ellie problem. Evalena Marylu Guarraseemo; Lilliana and Evalena; Lilli and Evvie. I have a feeling this name would lead to tons of cute nickname combinations: Lena Lu, Evvie Lu, etc.

To get away from names that have sounds in common with Lilliana/Lilli, I suggest Josephine. I like Josephine Mariel. This gives you the Joseph connection, but with cute nicknames like Jo and Josie. Lilliana and Josephine; Lilli and Josie. That’s my favorite solution, I think: two family tie-ins just like Lilli’s name, good nicknames but not too similar to each other.

Another possibility is Felicity (Fliss, Flip). I like Felicity Claire. Lilliana and Felicity; Lilli and Fliss. Possible problem if you end up with Lilli and Lissie.

Or Genevieve. Lilliana and Genevieve; Lilli and Evie.

Clarissa would give you a connection to Claire. Clarissa Maribel, maybe. Not very many nicknames (Lilli and Clare?), but it gets two family connections and I think Lilliana and Clarissa are very nice together.

Or Anastasia (Annie, Stacie). Lilliana and Anastasia; Lilli and Annie.

Or Emmaline. Lilliana and Emmeline; Lilli and Emmie.

Or Penelope (Penny, Nell). Lilliana and Penelope; Lilli and Penny or Lilli and Nellie if that’s not too similar.

For a boy, would you consider Coleman as a first name? I find the “mother’s maiden name as first name” idea totally charming. Coleman John, perhaps, or Coleman Jax.

To me, Jace is not a natural nickname for Jamison. After making mental note of both names, halfway through this sentence I still had to scroll back to remind myself what the full name was. If you don’t want to use Jace as the given name (Jace Coleman works particularly well, I think), Jacen would work as a full form. Jacen Coleman; Lilli and Jace.

Lilli and Owen sound like excellent sibling names to me.

Boy names with tons of nicknames are few and far between: our culture is more likely to do that with girl names than with boy names. The boy names that do have a lot of nicknames tend to be the old traditional ones that NEEDED a lot of nicknames because so many boys had that name—and they tend to still be common now, because there are so few of them to go around for everyone who likes lots of nicknames. William has Will and Bill and Liam. Nicholas has Cole and Nick and Nico. Alexander has Al and Alex and Xander and Xan. Robert has Rob and Bob and Robin and Bert. Edward has Ed and Ned and Ted. But I don’t think any of those names are your style, and/or they’re too common.

This is why you’re going in circles, I suspect. You’d like a name with lots of nicknames…but all the names with lots of nicknames are too common or not the right style. So you look for something less common…but it doesn’t have any good nicknames, or the name isn’t the right style. So you find some nicknames you like, but all the names associated with them are too common. And so on. I think there are three basic options here: (1) Choose a common name with lots of nicknames. (2) Choose an uncommon name with sparse or absent nicknames. (3) Choose an uncommon name and choose nicknames not usually associated with that name. With the third choice you will have plenty of company: lots of people are taking letters or sounds from names and making their own nicknames. You will find me an old stick-in-the-mud on the subject, however. My friend and fellow name aficionada Mairzy periodically has to take me aside and tell me gently that resisting a certain newly-used nickname is now officially a lost cause and it is time for me to stop being stubborn about it.

My first choice for you is Coleman, but my second choice is Nicholson. This adds an option 4 to my list above: (4) Modify a common, nickname-rich name to be less common. Nicholson is unusual, it makes a slight reference to your maiden name, and it has all the nicknames of Nicholas: Nick, Nico, Cole. It’s good with the sibling name: Lilliana and Nicholson; Lilli and Cole. Nicholson Joseph, maybe.

Another possibility is Wilson. Less common than William, but still gives you Will if you want it. But Lilli and Will may give you the same feeling as Lilli and Lulu. To me it doesn’t, I think because Will is one syllable and so traditional: I definitely notice the repeating -ill- when I type them both out, but for me it lands on the side of fun and appealing coincidence.

Robertson would be a more current version of the name Robert, giving you all the nicknames: Rob, Bob, Bert, Robin.

Redford would work, I think and it gives you both Red and Ford.

Name update! Jenn writes:

Hello! First, THANK YOU so much for helping me – I read through your response a few times and of course the comments. They helped us to think about different arrangements of names and keep playing around with some options. Your post & suggestions (like Josephine for a girl or a commenter saying to use John as a middle name) helped to narrow down some choices and inspire a new one! My husband threw this name out there 3 days before the big day and when we met her, we just knew it was the one…

Josslyn Jane arrived healthy and happy and perfect fit for her name! Attached is a picture of Joss & her big sis, Lilli. Thanks again!!

Staci writes:

My husband and I recently found out that we are expecting our second child in January 2012. We had a horrible time agreening on a name for our daugther, but settled on Meadow Alexis. We love the tranquility and playfullness that Meadow conjures. My husband is Italian, and our last name is Biondini (pronounced bee-on-dee-nee). He favors unusual names and Italian names. I tend to like names that have stood the test of time, but that are not super popular. There aren’t many Italian names that I like, as I feel like we already have strong Italian last name. Both of us like nature names. Our dog is named Sunny, and the other top contender for Meadow was Daisy. We both still agree on Daisy, but I am afraid it may be too much with Meadow, especially since they will be 14 months apart in age. Also, the middle name will probably be Anne, in honor of my mother.

Here are some girl names that I like, but that my husband does not care for:
– Willow (husband says it is too trendy because of Willow Smith and Willow Palin)
– Eden
– Charlie (as a nickname for Charlotte, or by itself)
– Emmet (nickname Emme)
– Isabel (nickname Bell, but probably would never use now due to the popularity of Isabella)
– Gillian
– Laurel
– Vivian

Names that my husband likes, but that I do not care for:
– Shiloh
– Rain
– Fiore

Could you help please help us come up with a playful, not too popular name for Baby Biondini number 2 that doesn’t sound like the hippie cousin of Meadow and Sunny?

I think what we are looking for here is WHIMSY: nothing too hippie, nothing too staid. The Baby Name Wizard recommends sister names Willow, Ember, Harmony, Winter, and Lark.

Lark doesn’t quite work for me because of the meadowlark, but I do like the concept of a bird name. Robin is hard to say with the surname, and it’s not as current a name as Meadow. Wren is another possibility. Phoebe is subtle: it’s a bird, but I don’t think of it as a bird. But again, I don’t think it’s good with the surname. I like Starling: it’s highly unusual but I think it would quickly seem familiar and easy. Meadow Alexis and Starling Anne.

Winter works in theory, but the contrast with what I imagine a meadow being like (warm sun, soft breezes, pretty flowers) makes the name Winter feel chilly and grey to me. Summer and Autumn would both work, and I wonder why hardly anyone uses Spring?

I think Story would work well, or Fable, or Haven, or Juniper.

One of my favorite whimsical names is Clover, but I’m not sure if it’s good with Meadow. On one hand I love it, but on the other hand clover seems like a subset of meadow—like using the name America for one child and Georgia for the next.

Another of my favorite whimsical names is Marigold. This SHOULD be exactly the same problem as Clover, but this just goes to show how very subjective name impressions are: to me, it’s a much smaller problem and maybe no problem at all. Perhaps because I think of clover as growing in meadows, but I don’t think of marigolds growing there? perhaps because they both start with M? I can’t explain it.

I think the name Serenity would be great with Meadow, but I hesitate to suggest that name: it could be such an ill fit for some personalities.

I like the cheerful sound of the name Brighton, but the -on ending makes it seem masculine to me. Perhaps Brighten? Brightly? But then it looks less like a name. Hm. No, I think Brighton is best. Brighton Anne.

Sierra is a nature name like Meadow: Meadow Alexis and Sierra Anne. For something less common: Vienna.

Or Liberty: Meadow Alexis and Liberty Anne.

Piper would be darling: Meadow Alexis and Piper Anne.

Or Padgett: Meadow Alexis and Padgett Anne.

You only mention girl names—are you also looking for boy names? Those feel less fun to me: there don’t seem to be as many whimsical boy names, and the nature names seem more serious: Stone and Flint rather than Marigold and Clover.

Archer
Arlo
Arrow
Baxter
Brighton
Casey
Chance
Haskell
Heath
Felix
Finley
Finnegan
Jacoby
Keegan
Kiefer
Lennox
Nico
Parker
Phoenix
River
Sawyer
Shepherd
Thatcher

Name update! Staci writes:

Our daughter, Aria Fable Biondini was born yesterday Feb. 1, weighing 7 lbs. 13 oz., and 21″. We are calling her Fable which is a name that either you or one of the commenters suggested. We think it is the perfect whimsical complement to big sister Meadow Alexis. Thanks for your help!

Cara writes:

I have a somewhat general question (with ulterior motives) for you and the lovely commenters. It’s clear to me that certain combinations of initials are best avoided, but when we discuss this issue we most often talk about names that result in three initials. What about names that have four initials (or, presumably, more)? If three of the initials spell something that we would avoid if there were only three initials, can the fourth initial fix the problem? Does it depend on the choice of the fourth initial or do we always see the three letters that we’re trying to avoid?

A mild example:

SAG seems best avoided. But what about JSAG or RSAG?

If you think the fourth initial solves the problem, would it also apply to a set of letters that spelled something more extreme?

I’m asking, of course, because my husband and I have been leaning toward a middle name that would give our child (due in a little over two weeks) the last three initials of FKR and I’m wondering if there’s any way to salvage the choice or if it’s a lost cause. The placement of letters is fixed, that is, it can’t be KFR instead. Clearly the first name couldn’t start with an M. But is there a letter that would work?

Thank you for your help!

I see it as a spectrum thing. At one end of the spectrum are the initials that don’t spell anything particularly bad (ER, MD, DOC, INK), where we might prefer to avoid them but if we really love a name it’s not worth giving it up just to avoid the initials. At the other end of the spectrum are the initials that are bad enough that we have to sacrifice names we love because it’s just too awful. (Different people will have different ideas of what’s intolerable, but some of my own would be the initials from names such as Abigail Sarah Smith, Gideon Andrew Young, Sarah Isabelle North, Kiley Katherine Kingston, Finn Alexander Greenfield, Felicity Anne Taylor.)

In between the two ends of the spectrum, it’s a matter of trading and balancing: of thinking “Would _I_ mind having these initials?” and “Is it worth it, or is this just one of many situations where a name we love is out of the running for reasons that are unlucky and unfair but it’s nothing A Feeling Of Injustice can change?”

Sometimes there’s an easy fix, like using a C spelling instead of a K spelling, or using one of the two names for one child and the other name for a future child, or your example of switching the names. The 4-initial idea is another such possibility, and I’d say it sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t: it depends on the severity of the Bad Initials, and also on which name is the fourth name. My children and I have four names, and I’ve found that the first of the two middle names is the default initial for one-initial situations unless I specify otherwise. So if the name were, for example, Abigail Sarah Harrison Smith, I would still hesitate to use it—though if I were determined to use Abigail Sarah no matter what, it’s a big improvement.

In your specific example (FKR), I’m not sure. I would want to avoid those letters, but I’m not POSITIVE I would have noticed them as I’m positive I would with, say, FUK or FCK. I do think this is a situation where a fourth initial would improve things, but I’m not sure if it improves things ENOUGH. I was going to have us examine a few possibilities, but of course it’s in our minds now so I’m seeing problems EVERYWHERE! Like, if you’d told me her initials were going to be AFKR, I don’t think I would have been able to see what the problem was—but I’m not SURE, because now that I’m thinking of it I’m seeing it as “a fkr”.

I DO THINK that if I wasn’t in the mindset, I wouldn’t be seeing a problem. EFKR. KFKR. RFKR. I think these work. I THINK.

But it is a matter of the trading and balancing mentioned earlier: it IS a little risky, and what if I’m wrong that adding that fourth initial makes the problem significantly less? So it comes down to how important it is to you to use the names. (And could the K name be spelled with a C? I think FCR is a little better than FKR.)

I think we need a poll here, but I suspect many of you will run into the problem I ran into: once the idea is planted, the letters stand out too much for a detached evaluation. I did a quick poll on Twitter, but unfortunately I used BFKR as the random example—and of course I was asking if there was a problem, which tips things. To me, the BF at the beginning had my mind going in the BFF direction. The overwhelming response on Twitter was, um, a different direction. Someone had a good point that a lot of us are getting used to textspeak, which leads us to be quicker to see words in partial-word letter combinations.

In any case, about 1 out of every 4 responses were that they didn’t see any problem with the initials, and about 3 out of 4 were VEHEMENT amused/horrified responses that they DID INDEED see a problem, with further jokes suggested. But several people mentioned that if they hadn’t been LOOKING, they wouldn’t have seen anything, or that they knew people with similarly problematic initials who reported never having the predicted problem (TheGoriWife knows a FRT who was aware of the potential problem but said it had never come up).

I asked if anyone could think of a first initial that would remove the problem, and most of the responses were again negative: people said no, it was the FKR they noticed immediately, and anything else either changed nothing or made it much worse. But Dashoff suggested: “A ‘J’ or ‘R’ in front would draw me to noticing JFK or RFK instead of the FKR standing out at the end.”

After that quick and informal poll, I find my opinion is going toward “It would have to be REALLY IMPORTANT to use those particular names.” I think I feel the way Lynnette does: she said “I think that one would be a stretch to come to a real conclusion, though I will not use my favorite boy name because : FKD.”

Let’s put a poll over to the right. [Poll closed; see results below.] The question is: GIVEN THAT the parents would prefer not to spell something bad with the initials (that is, we are not voting on whether initials-spelling-things matters, because it DOES matter to the parents), do you think the initials FKR are salvageable with a 4th initial? And if so, please put in the comments section which ones you think would work.

Name update! Cara writes:

Thanks so much for the feedback! Reading your response and all the comments really helped me clarify my thoughts. I realized that I probably wouldn’t be able to forget that when I see the initials _FKR, I see a word, even if other people don’t. We decided that when the baby was born we’d decide on the first name and then deal with the middle name (expecting that we would probably have to scrap the F name and pick something else). But ultimately the whole thing was a nonissue—I was absolutely convinced that we were having a girl (I thought the same with my first and was right), but we had a boy! The F middle name we were in love with (Freya) was off the table. But you can be sure that I wrote out my son’s four initials before we did the paperwork just to make sure I wasn’t missing anything! Thanks again!