Stephanie writes:

Hi Swistle! I am a long-time reader (both blogs!), only part-time commenter, I’m afraid. I am hoping you can lend some advice on our current naming pickle.

So, the basics: my name is Stephanie and my husband is Taylor, our last name is Francis. We have a 2 year old son named Edward Russell–he was named before we even got married because of the immediate need to cure my husband of his thoughts of getting a junior. :) Edward is my husband’s first name,my father-in-law’s name (he goes by Eddie), and his father’s name. My FIL is a junior, but I wanted to kiss my MIL every time we went through the first boy naming thoughts that she didn’t make my husband a third–Taylor is his mother’s maiden name (and quite useful as a name to go by, since his father was already Eddie). Our son’s middle name is my father’s name (and his father’s name) so it’s a neat, round about 4th generational thing for both names. Our son goes by Edward because I liked Ward and my husband liked Ed and neither of us could stand the other’s choice, so Edward it is. When we “need” a nickname, we go with E.

I’m currently 15 weeks (I KNOW, plenty of time!) and we just found out that this one is a girl which has thrown me for many a loop, one of which being that I loved our boy name. LOVED it. It was Nathaniel Jack–Nathaniel is a name that my husband and I have loved for a long time, one of those rare finds where we both like the full name and the nickname, Nate, and it also happens to have been my husband’s grandfather’s name. Jack is my maternal grandfather’s name and my maternal uncle’s name, and also we both like that name very much. It would have made my mother very happy to have her side honored (she’s sensitive to that sort of thing). Oh well, maybe next time!

Anyway, now we know it’s a girl and now we have a slight naming predicament. I have always thought my first daughter would get my middle name, Katherine, which was passed down from my mom (she was named after both of her grandmothers). (You can tell, we are really big into family names around here.)

For first names for a girl, I want to honor a close friend’s mother who passed away several years ago. This is actually my husband’s best friend’s mom, with whom I worked after college and she really just had a big impact on my personally and professionally. So her name was Caroline and we are planning to ask our friend for permission to use the name for our daughter–we are fairly confident he will say yes. I had always thought Caroline Katherine, but a few weeks ago I started un-warming to that combination.

Now that we are having “real” discussions about this, my husband reveals that he just really does not like the name Caroline itself. He doesn’t like that it doesn’t have any easy or good nicknames (he also doesn’t like it because it’s too close to our alma mater’s rival university–Carolina–which is, yes, a pretty petty reason, though I do understand his point). Also, I’m really unsettled on Katherine as a middle name if Caroline is the first name. It just doesn’t flow to me anymore.

So if we use Caroline as a first name, do you have any nickname suggestions and middle name suggestions? There are ZERO family names we would want as a middle name. His family has really terrible female names (think Hilda Pearl and the like) and there’s just nothing we both like on my side. My paternal grandma’s name is Ruth and I thought that was pretty, but a) he doesn’t really like Ruth, b) my sister has already “claimed” it (and I don’t feel strongly enough to fight over it) and c) my mom would be upset if my dad’s side got honored again before/over hers. (Seriously, this is a true issue. I know. Trust me. But it it is.)

On the slim chance that our friend tells us he would prefer we didn’t use Caroline, our backup name is Rebekah (nn Bekah). My husband LOVES it. LOVES. IT. I like it very much, and his love for that name is so strong that I do not have a desire to push back against it since I also like the name very much. I am not crazy about that spelling, but my husband STRONGLY prefers (he REALLY LOVES THIS NAME) this spelling to the more common Rebecca. My biggest contention with the spelling is just that it’s NOT the most common and so it’s likely she would have to correct people frequently. However, it’s certainly an ACCEPTED spelling and doesn’t look made up, so I’m okay with it. Again, he feels so strongly about it, I don’t feel compelled to fight this battle.

If we used Rebekah, I do think Katherine goes well/okay with it. I’m happier with that flow than Caroline Katherine.

The other possibility that I thought of yesterday is the compromise Rebekah Caroline. I actually think that is prettier than Rebekah Katherine. Anyway, my concerns/issues–both pro and con–for this “compromise” name are: 1. I do so love the name Caroline itself. I think it’s beautiful. 2. It would pretty much give both my husband and me what we want, although him moreso–I really want to honor Caroline and he loves (have I mentioned that he LOVES THAT NAME? It’s kind of weird, actually.) the name Rebekah. 3. My mom. As mentioned, she is sensitive. I worry that she will be upset/get offended if I don’t use Katherine or some other family name from her side. 4. I don’t want to “shove” Caroline to the middle name–is that “honoring” enough? I don’t know if that question makes sense, but hopefully you know what I mean. 5. On the other hand, if we use Caroline as the middle name, that does give a little more room to our friends to also use that name either as first or middle (to clarify: I don’t know that they want to at all).

Anyway, this is a very long question now with lots of extra information and questions along the way. Nicknames/middle names for Caroline? What do you think about Rebekah Katherine versus Rebekah Caroline? What do you think about just skipping Caroline as a first name and doing the “compromise name”?

My husband just deployed for 6 months (so he will not be here for the birth! Hurray!) (That was a sarcastic “hurray” lest you or anyone think I am ACTUALLY excited about my husband missing the birth of our first daughter.) so we are at a little disadvantage in that we can’t say the names aloud to each other and such, but we are both very much “get it sorted out” people which is why we want to get this name settled rather early on. So we can move on to more important things like surviving the next 6 months. :)

Thanks so much for your consideration and help!

 
Is it important that Katherine be the middle name, or could it instead be the first name? It goes so beautifully with Edward, and has such nice nickname possibilities. Then Caroline could go in the middle name slot, which is a nice place for a name that has significance but one of the parents doesn’t like it enough to use it as a first name. Katherine Caroline Francis.

If Katherine should be in the middle name slot, though, then I would drop the name of the husband’s best friend’s mother LONG before I would drop the name that came down through your family. There are other ways to honor important people in our lives, so although you greatly respected your former co-worker, I don’t think it’s as crucial that you show it with your daughter’s name.

Or perhaps just not with THIS daughter’s name: another possibility is to save Caroline for a possible future daughter’s middle name. The middle name slot is still considered a large honor, and in fact in many situations I think it works better. This idea does mean risking it not being used at all, since you might not have a second daughter—but it’s my favorite option here, because I think the struggle to use the name Caroline is the main issue tangling up this current child’s name.

So where are we? We have eliminated Caroline as a first name because your husband doesn’t like it (unless nicknames such as Caro, Cary, and Cara would change his mind), which also relieves us of the task of finding middle names other than Katherine to go with it. And I’m strongly advocating against giving up the long-standing family name in favor of the friend’s mother / co-worker name, which means we don’t need to find first names to go with the middle name Caroline. This leaves us with ______ Katherine Francis.

I think Rebekah Katherine is wonderful (I love the repeating K), and meets all the preferences. It uses a family name from your mother’s side; it uses part of your name you’ve always thought you’d use for your first daughter; it uses a first name you both like; it’s wonderful with Edward Russell. And it gives you something to look forward to with the next child either way: if it’s a boy, you can use Nathaniel; if it’s a girl, you can use the middle name Caroline (or perhaps by then your husband will have warmed to it: Edward, Rebekah, and Caroline is a wonderful sibling group).

Name update! Stephanie writes:

I wrote a loooooong time back for help naming our baby girl (Rebekah; Caroline versus Katherine for middle name, essentially). Rebekah Caroline was born 2/24/12 (what a lovely birthdate for number nerds like us!) at 8 pounds, 5 ounces (the exact weight as her brother!) and 20 inches long. I really appreciated everyone’s input and the discussion from the post. I ended up actually bringing up the Katherine versus Caroline issue with my mom and it turns out that Rebekah is actually a down-the-line family name on her side, so we went with Caroline for the middle since I felt like I wasn’t “dissing” her or her family as much knowing that my daughter would have a family name no matter what. My husband got to come home early from Afghanistan to be here for the birth, which was the best thing ever. She is a fantastic baby and a great snuggler and just the most delicious thing ever. I have a very difficult time not devouring her daily. Thanks again to you and your readers for your input and help!

C. writes:

I feel somewhat premature in sending this as I am not due until April, and we won’t even have a shot at knowing gender until thanksgiving, but we plan on having several children, so it’s bound to come up eventually, and I’m feeling surprisingly settled about everything save this last sticking point, which I have made no progress on for months.

My grandmother’s name is Hildegard. She is an amazing woman, and ever since my now husband met her, we have joked about naming children after her. Sometime around when we began trying to conceive he made the comment that he was ‘100% absolutely in favor’ of using the name Hildegard.

And I became unsure. It is just so very much of a name. It is so very unapologetically German.

To put it in perspective, our last name is ‘Ford’. We would probably pair it with the first name Alice, possible nn Liss/Lissy. Potential sibling names / other names we like include Hazel, Lynn, Nell, Ada, Liam, Tobin and Daniel. The only other Germanic name we’ve even remotely considered is Clara, and it isn’t a huge favorite. Other family names we would consider as honor names for siblings include David, Robert, Jean, Grace and Minona. I look at those lists, and think that while they could use some combinatorial tweaking, they are pretty consistent and a good starting point. But none of them sound anything at all like Hildegard.

On the other hand, all by itself, I like the contrast and rhythm of ‘Alice Hildegard Ford’ – it’s just when compared with potential sibling names that it seems so out of place.

Finally, we live in a fairly rural area, and I somewhat doubt that our children will be exposed to many other international sounding names amongst their schoolmates. This is pretty low on the list of concerns, but I suppose it’s still on there.

Neither of us like the concept of multiple middle names, and I do not like Hilde at all, so we’re in an all or nothing situation.

Am I worrying too much? Should I just say ‘pah, it’s an honor name, she can use an initial if she doesn’t like it’ or is that a lot of Germanic syllables to thunk down on one child alone?

Thank you! I’ve had a ton of fun reading your blog.

p.s. We think it’s very important to ask the honoree in question, as my husband was named after a relative who later admitted to hating his name, but we don’t want to ask if we’re going to change our minds and not use it, which might account for my eagerness to have it settled.

 
I would myself say “Pah.” I can even see it being fun as an adult to have a very unusual middle name. A similar name in my own family tree is Willemina, and I’m imagining someone saying idly, “What’s your middle name?”—and me being able to say “Willemina” instead of “Nicole.” THAT would wake them up a bit!

I see what you mean about it not coordinating with other possible honor names, but I think it would seem silly to give up on the idea of honoring someone you and the other parent very much want to honor, and instead honor someone else, just because in a group of siblings the middle names wouldn’t coordinate. I’m pretty far up on the spectrum of liking first names to coordinate in sibling groups, and even I don’t care much if the middle names coordinate. It’s NICE if they do, just because of the pleasing tidiness, but it’s not any kind of deal-breaker—and the coordination of them all being honor names is already pleasingly tidy.

Name update!

Do you have a (booby) prize for latest update ever?
Alice Hildegard is now two and a half, shown here with her new baby brother (!) Tobin David.
Even at this age, the middle name has come up so rarely that I can’t really give it a fair evaluation, other than to say when the nurses at the hospital ask you the baby’s name, they really aren’t interested in the middle name you agonized over, they just want to know what to call her!
In any case, the positive response from you & your readers kept us considering Hildegard seriously enough that we never came up with a real second choice, which helped us make the plunge when the time came. (I found actually filling out the paperwork rather nerve-wracking with both children. Am I really really sure? Even with #2 where I’d had the name picked literally for years)
Thank you for your help with all this. I hope the two for one special does something to compensate for the great tardiness.

Lisa writes:

We really need help naming our soon to arrive baby girl. I’m 2 weeks 4 days away from D-day and my husband and I cannot agree on one single name. We already have a two year old named Katie Jane Violet – Jane after my Mom and Violet after my husbands Mom, so this go around is all about what we like best since we’ve honored our Mom’s. As such, I think we’re just having a really hard time with the lack of rules.

Here is our small, small list of maybes:
Isabella
Quinn
Bella

My husbands last name is Pereversoff, so the shorter the first name, the better. I love a middle name of Jude (all time favorite music is the Beatles) – but then the initials BJ are a little mockable. The biggest hurdle is that I’d love an Ella, but my cousin already has a daughter named Ella. That brought me to loving the name Anabella, but one of my Grandma’s names is Anna, so would I need the middle name to be Ruth after my other Grandma to not offend? And then where would it end, cause the husband wants his Grandma’s name – Dora in the mix. And since I already think for this one we should do whatever we like best, that’s just an argument I’d rather avoid.

If we pick Quinn, I’m not sure Jude goes that well with it.

I think I just need more options. I’m hoping you can help to find us something that we both love!?

Thank you!

Do you think your cousin would be okay with another Ella? Ella Jude Quinn would be a nice complement to Katie Jane Violet. Or would Ellie be a little better? Ellie Jude Quinn Pereversoff.

Or perhaps it would be better to put Ella in the middle name slot, just to be sure: ____ Ella Jude might be pretty, or ______ Quinn Ella.

I see you like Isabella, and I’m wondering if you’d like Isadora. Downside: it’s long, and so much more formal/uncommon a name than Katie. Upside: it honors your husband’s grandma without provoking the dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-DORA song, and Izzy and Dorrie would both be sweet with Katie. Isadora Anna Ruth. I know you didn’t want to go down this path, though, so this is more just playing around with possible honor name combinations for fun. (Ooo, or Annie would be so sweet with Katie. Annie Jude Isadora Pereversoff; Katie and Annie. That’s one grandma from each side. …Okay, I’ll stop now.)

I don’t think that the name Annabella would force you to start honoring all the other grandmothers. If I were in that situation, I think I might be tempted to declare merrily to everyone that no, it was just a coincidence that it had the “anna” in it as MANY girl names do—and then I’d whisper privately to my Grandma Anna that it WAS after her but I didn’t want to be stuck honoring ALL the grandmas SHHHHH don’t tell! The biggest downside of Annabella is it’s such a long name. Annabel takes off a syllable, but it sounds like it’s the -ella that appeals to you.

Do you like Lila? It has some sounds in common with Ella, and it’s short. Lila Jude Quinn Pereversoff; Katie and Lila.

Or Lily. Lily Jude Quinn Pereversoff; Katie and Lily.

Even better: Lucy. It coordinates well with Katie in both style and formality; it’s a Beatles reference; it’s short. Lucy Ella Quinn Pereversoff; Katie and Lucy.

Or Abby, which has all the upsides of Lucy except the Beatles reference (unless Abbey Road counts?). Abby Jude Ella Pereversoff; Katie and Abby.

Or Molly, another maybe-Beatles reference. Molly Jude Ella Pereversoff; Katie and Molly.

Or Josie. Josie Ella Quinn Pereversoff; Katie and Josie.

Sophie. Sophie Jude Ella Pereversoff; Katie and Sophie.

Grace. Grace Ella Jude Pereversoff; Katie and Gracie.

Laney. Laney Jude Pereversoff; Katie and Laney.

Elsa might be enough different to not step on any cousin toes, but similar enough for you to like it. Elsa Jude Pereversoff; Katie and Elsie.

Same with Emma. Emma Jude Pereversoff; Katie and Emma.

I know very cute sisters named Katie and Emily. Emily Jude Pereversoff; Katie and Emily.

Name update! Lisa writes:

Thought I’d send you an update to a blog response you posted for me. We’ve just had our baby girl (yesterday morning) and we named her Quinn Ellie Jude Pereversoff – Katie and Quinn. Thanks so much for your help!

Bethany writes:

Hi! My name is Bethany. My wife’s name is Kathryn. We generally go by Beth and Kate although by our full names as well. Our last name is hyphenated and rhymes with Wall-Ridges.

We have identical twin daughters, Harriet Lucille and Matilda Corinne. They are known to everyone else as Harriet and Matilda but at home we often call them Hattie and Mattie, because we are evil. They are 4 and so far do not object but I’m sure they will!

We are due to have a son in very early November. He will be the only one in our house with a penis for the foreseeable future. Even our dogs are female and this almost certainly our last child. So we want his name to be strong but not overpowering, if that makes sense. Our girls names are of course pretty old fashioned and classic names with kicky nicknames. Since he will almost certainly be the only boy in our family we want his name to feel special without singeling him out. I hope this makes sense!

Our girls are named, in assorted ways, after our mothers (Kate’s mum’s first name is Corinne, my mum’s middle is Lucille). So we’d like to cover our dads with the boy. Happily they both have Edward somewhere in their names so that will be our sons middle (i see its your sons name as well!)
but for first names we are a bit…stuck.
Here’s our shortlist. Please let us know what you think!

hers:
James
Henry (but we are not repeating initials, how else are we going to label anything?)
Phillip but i hate Phil
Frederick but I hate Fred/Freddy
Andrew but hate Andy (see a pattern here?)
note that Kate doesn’t hate these nicknames but she doesnt like them either.

mine:
Owen
Seymour out of left field but like it
Oliver
Caspian totally doesn’t fit with our girls but I LOVE)

thank you!

I think Caspian might fit very well with the girls’ names. I agree it sort of SHOULDN’T fit well, and yet I’m finding it DOES for me: Harriet, Matilda, and Caspian. Oh, I think I know what it is: I think it’s that for me, all three are book names. (Harriet from Harriet the Spy and Harriet You’ll Drive Me Wild; Matilda from the Roald Dahl book; Caspian from Narnia.)

Atticus gives me that same feeling. Harriet, Matilda, and Atticus.

It’s too bad about Henry—I do love that name. I wonder if you’d like a name I think of as belonging to the upcoming batch of similar names: George. George Edward Wall-Ridges; Harriet, Matilda, and George. Georgie or Geordy are both very cute nicknames.

I also love James from your lists. Harriet, Matilda, and James. Really, really nice.

Do you like Simon? Harriet, Matilda, and Simon.

Or Ian, one of my own top favorites. Harriet, Matilda, and Ian.

Or Felix? I think it’s got a lot of the quirky charm of the girls’ names. Harriet, Matilda, and Felix.

Same with Arlo, which has been on my love list ever since Arlo’s Theme Song.

Or Charlie is also adorable but a little less uncommon: Harriet, Matilda, and Charlie.

Ooo, how about Wesley? Harriet, Matilda, and Wesley. I really like that, and I love the nickname Wes.

Or Ezra: Harriet, Matilda, and Ezra.

I think my favorites are George, Ian, and Wesley.

Name update! Bethany writes:

Thank you so much for using our question!
we loved reading all of the answers/comments especially yours. We got a TON of ideas and in fact we did not decide for sure until he was two days old. we went to the hospital with Felix, George, Caspian, Quinlan and Wesley. We thought Wesley was most likely, but then our little guy was born and we brought Mattie and Hattie to see him, and we asked them to tiebreak between Quinlan and Caspian (he just didnt look ike a Wesley). They started calling him Q! So his name is
Quinlan Edward. we LOVE it, love that he’s our 5th, love that we can just call him Little Q and Baby Q, and we are so happy. thanks again for all the help!

S. writes:

We are expecting a girl this November. If this baby was a boy we had 3 names we easily agreed on. Leo, Arlo and Eli. Eli was the name I wanted with our 3 yr old son. I agreed to let m DH make the final decision and our son’s name is Owen.:) Which was on our top 5 list. We seem to be having a harder time agreeing on girl names. It’s agreed that I get the final say this time but we need to agree on a top 5. We won’t pick a name before she arrives as we both believe we need to meet her first. DH has a #1 name that we loves and wants and some he is ok with.

I seem to like a lot of names but seem to fall out of love with names quickly. Especially since most of names get vetoed by my husband.:( My list changes often but these names are ones that I seem to go back to. Our last name is Sharp.

My list

Fiona

Freya

Eva

Lola

Ivy

Amelia

Eloise

Isla

DH dislikes all these names except Lola and is Ok with Fiona.

DH list

Marla (this is the name he wants)

Quinn

Josephine (I like this for a mn and like Josie for a nn)

Elsie

Clara/Claire

Isabel

Mia

Tessa (which we both don’t like with our LN. Too “s” heavy)

Stella

Eliza

I do like some of his names. I really want our top 5 list to be fair as I will most likely be the one to sacrifice. With your help I was hoping to eliminate a few, get new name options, and to get some honest opinions on our lists. We have 2 months to go so there is still plenty of time for us to get serious.:)

Thanks Swistle and followers. I hope to receive some great advice and hopefully some new names.

I think I’d start by going down each list name by name and brainstorming names that seem similar to you in sound or style—the goal being to see if names that appeal to one of you result in similar names that appeal to both of you.

Here’s how my list would look after brainstorming your lists:

Bianca
Finola
Philippa
Catriona
Imogen
Maya
Evalina
Emlyn
Nola
Nora
Viola
Penelope
Felicity
Iris
Louisa
Carly
Marlo
Maura
Laura
Lorelei
Brin
Brynna
Brenna
Genevieve
Elspeth
Elizabeth
Cora
Annabel
Isadora
Jocelyn
Julia
Meredith
Calla

Eloise and Eliza and Elsie seem so close, I feel like working more in that area. Elena. Louisa. Elodie. Elsa. Leslie. Lindsay. Elise. Eleanor. Esmé. Lydia. Elspeth. Hazel.

And you’ve got Amelia, and he’s got Mia—often used as a nickname for Amelia. It seems like you guys are so close to agreeing!

Name update! S. writes:

Our little girl arrived Nov 21, 2011

Our top 6 ended up being Clara Josephine, Stella June, Ivy Sophia, Isabel Quinn, Maggie Elizabeth and Eliza Quinn.

After we met her we knew she was either a Clara Josephine or Eliza Quinn and it took us almost a week to decide. But we decided on Clara Josephine.

Thank You for your help everyone!

M. writes:

I’m due any day with a baby girl. For years my husband and I have been set on the name Evangeline Mae for a girl. Recently a family member lost a baby girl and used the middle name Mae. We feel that we can no longer use that name, as it would only open wounds/cause family conflict. We also LOVE Evangeline Lily, but feel we can not use that name either because of the connection to the actress Evangeline Lilley which all of our family and friends know and love. We’re looking for a short middle name that’s not too unusual. Some middle names we have considered: Marie, Arianna, Rose, Juliana (my husband likes it, but I hate it). Please, please give suggestions! Right now I’m feeling so stressed and distraught that at the last minute we can’t use a name that we have loved and planned on for so long. Thank you!

 
I think I would start by looking for names like Mae (in sound or in style), and then by looking for names like Lily (in sound or in style). The mindset, though, is not “Which is better, Mae/Lily or this new choice?” but rather, “Since we can’t have Mae/Lily, will this be nearly as good?” Without a surname it’s hard to tell if these will work with the rhythm or with the initials, but it’ll be a list to consider.

Names somewhat like Mae:

Ada
Ava
Avis
Day
Fay/Faye
Faith
Grace
Grey
Hope
Jade
Joy
Mabel
Macy
Maelle
Maeve
Maya
Meagan
Pearl
Rae
Ruth
Shea/Shay
Téa

Some of these may be way too close to Mae, but I included them all so we could mull them over. (I left Kate and Kay/Kaye out, since Evangeline Lilly plays Kate on Lost. I left out Jane and Lane because they seemed to similar to the -geline/-line of Evangeline.)

Names somewhat like Lily:

Adele
Cecile
Celeste
Dahlia
Daisy
Elise
Helena
Iris
Isla
Ivy
Jillian
Juliet
June
Laney
Lark
Mercy
Molly
Noelle
Olivia
Reyna
Sadie
Selah
Stella
Violet
Willa
Willow

I left out Lilah and Layla and Lucy and Libby and Lydia and Ellie and others, because I thought they might be too evocative of Lilly. Some of the ones I left in might ALSO be too evocative of Lilly: it got very hard to draw the line.

Name update! M. writes:

Thank you Swistle and all of your readers for helping us choose a middle name! We went with your advice and used a middle name similar to Mae, Evangeline Marie. As one of your readers pointed out, we liked that Marie was also french like Evangeline and a classic name. We were between Marie and Grace (as suggested by many commenters) and went with Marie because we have a 1 syllable last name and thought having a 2 syllable middle name would flow better. Again thank you so much! She was born 9/22/11.