Dear Swistle,
This is not urgent; this baby isn’t arriving until April. However, my partner and I are tripping up on a baby naming issue that we’d love help with.
Neither of us have strong feelings about girl’s names, except that they be easily pronounced by my US based family and his Dutch family. We want to avoid the letters R, J and G as they are pronounced so differently in English and Dutch.
I remember you mentioning you have some Dutch heritage, so we’d love suggestions!
Family names we’re considering using in the middle name spot are Ilse (his mother’s name), Inge and Lieselotte.
The surname this baby will have is Van der Laan.
He likes Anouk, Eve, Margriet and Iris.
I like the names Amelia, Winter, Lucy, Flora and Rumi (don’t think I’d ever use it, but it’s 100% my favourite name). Searching your blog to see what you suggest for people who like Emilia, I discovered a lovely name which Erica had chosen for a daughter: Lua! Which I adore but my partner says no to. Dang. Rumi and now Lua are the only two names I’ve really liked so far.
We had three names we like for boys: Sam, Sebastian and Ruben. Ruben has the Dutch r issue that I’m not keen on.
This will be our first and likely only child.
Do you have any words of wisdom or inspiration for us? I’m a lot tireder than I thought I’d be, and finding it hard to engage with the naming of our kiddo. Sending this email off to you is bringing me a great sense of relief: you’re like a fairy godmother of names, and I feel our child is in safe hands with you providing input!
Thanks, Swistle.
Kind regards,
Zoe
Oh, dear—so, I DO have Dutch heritage, but all I know about Dutch pronunciation is little assorted things, such as that the surname Groen is pronounced Groon (but the creator of The Simpsons is Groening and it’s pronounced GRAIN-ing, so I am not sure what is what), and that Thijs is pronounced like Tice-rhymes-with-rice, and I know that the J is pronounced like Y, and that allegedly my family mispronounces our own surname—but that’s pretty close to all I know about how names are pronounced in The Netherlands.
As for what is easily pronounced in the U.S., I know I can’t speak for the U.S., but I can say that as one single U.S. person, these are the first names on your list I am not immediately/confidently sure how to pronounce: Anouk, Margriet, Rumi (is it the same as the word roomy/roomie? it seems like it must be), Lua (it MUST be LOO-ah, but I would still feel tentative). Oh—but I see what you actually say is that the name needs to be able to be easily pronounced by your U.S. family, and I feel that if I were TOLD the pronunciation of any of these names, I WOULD be able to easily pronounce them. So that’s not an issue.
If the baby is going to have your partner’s Dutch surname, it seems balanced for the baby to NOT have a Dutch first name, but instead to have a name more from the mother’s heritage. And while we’re here: is there any room still to consider hyphenating the surname, or using your surname? It is so baffling to me the way time after time, baby after baby, generation after generation, parents married or not: if one parent is a man, the baby is almost always given the man’s surname. WHY. WHY. WHY. WHY. WHY. If I were having babies with a man NOW, AFTER years and years of doing this name blog, I would keep my OWN name and I would give all my children MY surname, JUST TO PROVIDE THE TINIEST BIT OF BALANCE TO THE UNIVERSE, GAH
From your partner’s list I like Eve and Iris. Eve is kind of a lot of V with his surname, which can be a plus or a minus. To me I think it is a plus. I would like to be named Eve Van der Laan, I think. But I would also like to be named Iris Van der Laan.
But, again: if we are using his family’s surname for the baby (i.e., he will have the same surname as his own baby but you will not have the same surname as your own baby), then I feel STRONGLY INCLINED to AT LEAST let you have more say in the FIRST name. Of the names on your list, the ones most to my own personal tastes are FLORA (!!!), Amelia, and Lucy. I personally feel that Flora Van der Laan is a MAGNIFICENT name, and one that I would very much want for myself. But that is only what SWISTLE likes, and what would be best is to choose what YOU like. Perhaps the deal could be this: he gets to share HIS surname with the child; the first name is chosen by the two of you from among YOUR favorites; and then the middle name is a family name from YOUR side, or else one of your favorite first name options that he does not want to use as the first name. So: Flora/Winter/Amelia/etc., whatever the two of you agree on from your list; then a family name from your side (I highly recommend adding your own first and middle and last names to the list of candidates), or else Rumi/Lua, for the middle; and then Van der Laan. Or if he balks at this deal, perhaps he would prefer to flip it: you could go with a name the two of you agree on from among HIS first-name choices, and then his mom’s name for the middle, and then YOUR surname. Under no circumstances do I think this baby should have (1) a name from his list of first-name choices (especially one of the Dutch options), (2) and then his mother’s name as the middle, (3) and then his family’s surname.
A first option that came to mind: Evelina. Sort of like Eve, sort of like Amelia. Evelina Rumi Van der Laan. Evelina Zoe Van der Laan. Evelina Ilse [Your Surname].
There are a lot of florals in your lists, so I suggest Violet: I think Violet Van der Laan is pretty snappy and memorable. I also love Violet with your surname, or with a hyphenated surname.
I wonder about Dahlia or Delia. Delia Ilse [Your Surname]. Delia Zoe Van der Laan. Dahlia Rumi Van der Laan. Delia Lua Van der Laan.
Sort of similar to Rumi: Romy. Romy Van der Laan. But is the R an issue?
Would your partner like Lua better if it were Luca? Luna? Lula? Lucia? Lia? Or Lucy seems like a nice option from your list: sort of like Lua + Iris. And you could call her Lua as a pet name.
Would you like Anouk better if it were Anne or Anna or Annika or Lucianna?
If you were having a boy, I’d suggest using your family surname as a first name, if it’s the surname I see in the email. For a girl, I wonder if you want to consider using it without the final letter.
You seem to really like U sounds in names. Would you like Eula? Or Tulip ( a little out there, and maybe too Dutch, but you seem to both like flowers)? Suzannah? Luanna? Una?
Ruth and June also seem like they could be great, aside from the Dutch pronunciation issue…but I’ve always thought that if I had overseas relatives it might be especially fun if they pronounced my name differently. (Probably stemming from 7th grade French when we all learned the French versions of our names and I just got “Kerry.”) Yoo-nee in particular strikes me as an adorable nickname to have for your little girl.
I really like Flora and Iris and Violet and TULIP. Flower girls!
I went to high school with an Aniko Van der Somethingelse, so that’s where my mind immediately went.
Aveline
Sylvie/Silvie
Yvaine/Ivaine/Evaine/Evany
Thera
Sabine
Leonie
(Disclaimer: I’m not even a little bit Dutch)
Our baby girl who has Dutch heritage got the name Noa Violet – Noa is a top 20 girls name in the Netherlands and many other countries with a very consistent pronunciation. It reminds me of Lua with soft and feminine sounds.
I don’t know how this name will play in the Netherlands where it’s a food product, but I love the name Milo and think Milo Van der Laan sounds awesome.
If your husband likes Eve and you like Flora, maybe Eva? But I do like Flora. I wonder if you’d both like Linnea?
I agree with Swistle that the first name should be more heavily influenced by your list, if baby is getting dad’s last name. I LOVE the name Flora Van Der Laan. Gorgeous.
If you do use Eve, I think Eva flows better with the last name. Or Ava?
Lucia (I pronounce it Loo-SEE-uh, so it’s similar to your Lucy). Or I thought of Hazel for you.
You mention that Ilse is your MILs name, do Inge or Lielselotte have any significance? Would Liesl work for a middle name? I find it flows better than Lieselotte.
What about Lucia, nn Lua? He can use her full name if he doesn’t like the nn, and you can get to call her one of your favorite names.
Evelina Rumi makes me swoon, and using your #1 name that you feel uncertain about in the middle is a win-win. Although I do want to point out that if she is called Eve, with the last name it sounds like “Evander Laan.” But that name is ripe with nickname potential and there are so many ways nicknames can go after a baby is here.
Pregnancy is so exhausting and I feel for this mama. I often felt completely sapped of energy . I hope Swistle’s caps give her the extra oomph she needs to lobby for herself and in naming her daughter—I hope she knows we are all behind her and we can’t wait to her what she chooses. Good luck, mama.
*can’t wait to HEAR
(Caps locks are also great for corrections haha)
I think Flora van der Laan and Lucy/Lucia van der Laan are gorgeous names, and having Rumi as a middle and/or calling Lucy/Lucia by Lua as a pet name just her mom calls her could makevyour heart sing.
Other suggestions that might fit your style:
Willa
Nora
Tessa
Lissa
Stella
Ivy
Cecilia
Maisie (an outlier soundwise, but fits the same feel as Flora in other ways)
Karina
Maia/Maya
And I definitely agree with Swistle about the balance. It would be very imbalanced for the baby to have his last name, a middle name that’s a family name from his side, and a first name that wasn’t one of your picks.
If he’s not considering the last name as something that’s coming from his side of the family because you’ve both seen it as the default, pointing it out could help with making your case for you to have more say about the first and middle.
Rumi is very pretty! If you love it you should use it and put something more traditional in the middle in case there is a need (but I don’t think there will be.) She could be Rumi Rose
You could also choose a full name with a nickname that gets to Rumi– maybe Rosemary (nn Rumi), or Ramona (nn Rumi)?
OR a little farther afield, but Marigold (flower name) nn Rumi (switching things around, still works!)
Anouk, Amelia, Sam and Sebastian made me think of Saskia.
As a tie-in to you, with that favoured U sound – how about Zuzu? Azalea? Zelie?
Or if you’re not saving Sam for a boy, why not a Samantha nn Sam?
I know you said the R in Ruben was bugging you but it made top 3 for boys, so how about Ruby for her?
Bilingual household here, so I know the corundum. Would you like Ingrid or Elizabeth/Elisabeth? I liked Maya as a good “international” name. My name starts with an R and don’t mind the difference in the English and Germanic pronunciation. Obviously, that’s personal, but I do like Reuben (as well as your other two boy names). Good luck!
I think it’s more than just balancing mom and dad’s saying on a name.
It’s the fact that this child will have both heritages, American and Dutch, and using dad’s surname, a family name from his side of the family and a Dutch first name only reflects the Dutch heritage, which is so unbalanced!
So I suggest:
Lila Winter Van der Laan
Amelia Liselotte Van der Laan
Lucy Anouk Van der Laan
Flora Margriet Van der Laan
Amalia Zoe Van der Laan (Amalia is the name of the Dutch crown princess)
Luella Ilse Van der Laan (alternative to Lua)
Petra Iris Van der Laan
For a boy:
Sebastian Daniel Van der Laan
Julian Frederick Van der Laan
Theo Ruben Van der Laan
Of your 2 lists, I like Amelia, Lucy/Lucia, and Iris best. Or what about Anita, Juliana, or Susana?
On a mild tangent here: I was talking to a new distant-family-by-marriage member the other day. ‘I couldn’t WAIT to be Mrs XYZ! I just want us to be a family.’ Good to know, lady, is my family less of a family because I didn’t change my name and my kids have both our names? Also… here’s a thought for her, why couldn’t you all be the ‘maiden names’?
Anyway! Totally agree, it’s not just about naming balance it’s about cultural and heritage balance. Our family is a slightly confusing mix of English, American, Italian and Jewish cultures and nationalities. My daughter has a name that is technically French but has been used a lot in European Jewish families and a middle I picked from literature (Josephine!) and both our lasts – and her first name is an honour initial, Jewish-style. My son has a super traditional Hebrew first name that comes from deep in my husband’s family tree, with my grandad’s name in the middle and both our lasts. It feels like such a minefield getting to a point where a name feels ‘fair’ and also gives you that little happy feeling every time you say it, but it feels so worth it.
I completely agree with Swistle and all the previous commenters, about which sides the names come from!
Absolutely love Flora, if you do choose to go with your partner’s name (or if you don’t!).
And this might not be true of everyone in the whole country, but all the Dutch people I have ever met have spoken excellent English and had no problems tackling an English “R” – they do pronounce it differently in Dutch but not in English, if you see what I mean?
Good luck! X
My daughter has two very Dutch surnames and is named Linnea. Subtle nod to flowers, too!
You and your partner seem to have a bit of a disconnect in styles. His seems to be old Dutch while yours is more modern, with your top two, Rumi and Lua, being extremely rare and unusual.
I wonder if as a compromise you two could agree on Susanna with the nickname Suki?
Wow! Oh my goodness. Thank you all so much.
Swistle, this has helped make naming FUN for me. You’ve made me think ‘oh, yes, FLORA! How beautiful!’ instead of just seeing all the names we like as frustratingly different to one another.
I do really like Violet! I’d decided against it of my own volition because I thought it wasn’t Dutch enough. But I’m going to bring it up with my partner and see what he thinks. I’d also thought a hyphenated surname would be too long, but he actually told me a few years ago that he’d be on board with that for a child. So, I’ll bring that up too!
Thanks again, Swistle and everyone else who’s shared thoughts! You’re all so cheering and encouraging.
I’m curious if there’s any use in me as a fully Dutch person chiming in, especially on the pronunciation conundrum?
I agree with Swistle that considering the shared heritage, it’s nice if your daughter’s first name is not a very non-English, very Dutch name. However, this does not need to mean it has to be the other extreme (very American and not Dutch at all) because there are plenty of names that are pronounced similarly in both languages.
Violet is not one of those, it is a name and word in both languages but pronounced very differently. So I’m curious, would you, if you gave this name to your daughter, ask Dutch speakers to pronounce it the English way, or let them pronounce it the Dutch way? They would probably succeed at the English pronunciation when asked, but when reading “Violet van der Laan”, the Dutch surname causes my brain to consistently want to read the first name as Dutch as well.
In terms of suggestions for names that are pronounced (basically) the same, Lucy, Flora, and Winter are absolutely fine! I’d say go for it, if you can pull your husband along. If he still wants something else, here is list of names that he as a Dutch person will know and/or are used in the Netherlands (keep in mind Dutch people have taken many English names for their kids over the years), that happen to also be suited to American pronunciation:
Amy
Annette
Ella
Elly
Emily
Emma
Emmy
Fay / Faye
Lena
Lily
Linda
Liz / Lizzy
Lola
Lynn
Melissa
Nina
Noa
Selma
Silvia / Sylvia
Sofia / Sophia
Stella
Tess / Tessa
Vanessa
My favourites with your last name are:
Lucy Van Der Laan
Nina Van Der Laan
Selma Van Der Laan
Sylvia Van Der Laan
Sophia Van Der Laan
Tessa Van Der Laan
Good luck with the journey!
Megan, enorm bedankt! This is very helpful to me. I really like Tessa and Stella. And you’re exactly right: I don’t want our child to feel out of place when we visit the Netherlands, so having a name that can be pronounced more-or-less the same way would make me happiest.
I’m an American who has a Dutch friend named Iris. I’ll warn you that she and our Dutch friends all said her name like E-riss while in America it’s usually eye-ris. I could easily pronounce her name the Dutch way once I heard it, but the default is different in the Netherlands vs the US