Hi Swistle,

I know you sometimes use your baby name blog to have discussions, which I always enjoy. I was thinking recently that it might be fun to have a post on real-life examples of name popularity not playing out as expected. I’m specifically thinking about times when a rare name turned out to be not-so-rare in a particular social circle, but it could also be interesting to hear about the opposite (cases where a child has a name that you know from Social Security stats is very popular and yet said child has ended up being the only person in school/town/etc. with that name). I know people who write to you for advice are often very concerned with the impact of a name’s popularity (myself included!), so it would be fun to hear some examples of how popularity plays out unexpectedly in the real world.

The thing that brought this to mind for me recently is my daughter’s preschool class. There are only 9 children in the class and two are named Emilia, spelled like that, with an E instead of an A. I’m wondering whether one or both Emilias’ parents specifically used that spelling because they were concerned about the popularity of Amelia. And now here they are, with two Emilia-With-An-“E”s.

I’m also thinking about my other daughter’s preschool class, which had 4 boys in it, two of whom were named Gary. I never would have imagined that I’d meet one 3-year-old Gary, much less two in the same very small preschool. The boys loved being “The Garys” and it was so cute, but I know the moms were very surprised that their boys had to be Gary Last Initial.

Anyway, I think it could be fun to hear more examples along those lines.

~Ashley

Oh, I AGREE!!

One type of story I am hoping we can avoid is the “We used Isabella in 2002 when NO ONE was using it, and then it got SO popular and now she’s always Isabella M.!” We all know about the phenomenon of noticing something everywhere AFTER it becomes significant to us. And we all know how common it is for parents, especially first-time parents, to use a name with no idea how common it is, for various perfectly understandable reasons (not knowing any babies yet; not thinking to look it up on the Social Security site and/or not knowing that information even exists; etc.). And we all know how name popularity can swoop up abruptly/unexpectedly as everyone seemingly discovers a name at the same time. Those stories, while worth telling, are not what we’re looking for today.

What we are looking for today is stories where there was an interesting difference between a name’s national/statistical popularity and its local/specific usage. Two Garys in one class, as Ashley mentions, or two Emilias. Two families both attempting to avoid the popularity of Isabella by both choosing Isadora, and the two Isadoras end up in the same classroom (with no Isabellas). Three Joeys in the same classroom, and two of them have the same middle name. Giving up on favorite name Olivia because it is too common, and using second-favorite Stella instead, and then there are two Stellas in that grade and no Olivias. Using the name John because it’s an important namesake name but feeling a little sad because it is just SO POPULAR, and then there isn’t a single other John in the entire school system. Etc.

Oh! And let’s talk about a vocab issue, before we get started: sometimes the word “class” can refer to a classroom, and sometimes to a whole grade, i.e. graduating class. I suggest we use the terms “classroom,” and “graduating class” or “grade.” (And of course if you happen to know the number of people in the classroom/grade, that is very good/fun to know, too.)

Update on Baby Boy Whit-with-an-E, Brother to F!nley

Hi Swistle,

My husband and I just found out that we are having a second daughter, who will be our last child. Our first-born daughter’s name is Margot, which we picked easily because it is so classy, fun, and distinctive all wrapped into one. Problem is, we’re having a hard time finding another girl name that “fits” with such a strong and standalone name such as Margot.

We do have a #1 contender, which is Norah. We both love the name and prefer it with the H since it feels stronger and more distinctive to us that way. Margot and Norah are both names that end with silent letters, which I can’t tell if it helps them “fit” (and they can bond over their silent letters and misspellings) or if it is just overkill and looks like a bit much when they’re written out together. However, I don’t think either of us want to spell it Nora just for this reason.

I had originally written off Norah as an option because Margot and Norah sound a little funny to me together, as if they are too similar. Both names hinge on the central R letter, and have the same “oh” and “ah” sounds, just reversed. My concern is that they are just not unique enough from each other. And yelling them at a distance could be hard to tell them apart (however important or not important that is). Then again I know plenty of families of little girls with the same “-ia” or “-ie” or “-en” endings and no one seems to notice that much. (I do know of an Ella and Nell sister pair, which is way too similar for my taste!)

We’ve run through lists of girl names but nothing else feels particularly right, which is how I came back around on Norah. My husband has a huge, close family so there are a few names I would definitely consider if we didn’t already have close cousins with them:
Eloise
Eliza
Avery

I have also always liked the name Ellie (big el theme) but we prefer to just give our child a standalone name without a nickname and I’m not sure I can get over how cutesy Ellie is on its own. My husband is not a fan for this reason. We also both don’t particularly like the very trendy “-ia” endings for girls that have been in the top ten for awhile now. It would be cool to find a name that starts with a Z (distinct!), but Zoe(y) is out (it is the name of friends and former dogs of both of ours) and the other Z names feel too far afield.

So… alternative suggestions to Norah, and/or thoughts on Margot and Norah together? I’m torn. We know for sure her middle name will be Logan (family name) and we do really like how Norah Logan sounds.

Thank you for any help!
-K

If I encountered sisters named Margot and Norah, I wouldn’t think anything was odd about the combination, or worry the names would be confused when hollered; and I wouldn’t even notice the other things you mention about letters and vowels. I would only think what nice names they were, and that they were a nice sibling pairing. I think it’s only when we look very carefully at names, as many of us do before making our final decision, that we notice all these little things—but you’ve dug thoroughly and well, and I don’t think you’ve found anything that rules out the name, or even makes it an awkward choice. I think once you use the name, all of those issues will recede far into the distance.

So, clearly I think you can/should/will use the name Norah. If for whatever reason you DON’T use it, or if it would help to just talk about names a little bit, I will say a few names that occurred to me as I was reading the letter:

Fiona; Margot and Fiona.

Simone; Margot and Simone.

Celeste; Margot and Celeste.

Lydia; Margot and Lydia.

Vivian; Margot and Vivian.

Winifred; Margot and Winifred.

Hi Swistle,

My spouse and I are expecting a baby in late May or early June 2022. We plan to have this be our only child.

We need specifically a gender neutral (or as gender neutral as possible) name. We know the sex of the baby, but it’s not a factor in our naming.

We have some overlap with naming in that we’re both a bit offbeat, like nature names, bohemian names, and Celtic names (heritage we both share). The baby’s surname will be Myers-Phillips.

We also have some very particular rules. The name must be:
Pronounceable and spellable in USA English
Not ranked in the top 100 — ideally unique, but not unheard of
Not just a nickname (e.g. Max without the Maxwell full name)
1-3 syllables, 2 is ideal
No unique spellings of existing names (e.g. Jaxon)
Not generally associated with anything cultural that will make us seem like superfans (e.g. Arwyn is strongly associated with Lord of the Rings)

Some names we liked but rejected are:
Briar (rhymes with Myers)
Aspen (sounds too much like ass, probably too feminine)
Remy (associated with guns and animated rats)
Kai (appropriative of Hawaiian culture)
Charlie (it’s a nickname not a full name)
Rue (the non-botanical meaning, regret, feels too sad for a baby)
Jules (nickname)
Kit (nickname)
Rowan (already taken by a couple people close to us)
Arrow (too offbeat we think?)

Whew! All that said, we do have a couple names that we’re still considering, but might not be exactly right.
River. We both like this name but we’re afraid it’s becoming too common and losing its “shine” if you will.
Larkin. We like this and the nickname Lark, but worry from people’s reactions that it’s actually ugly.
Thanks, we need help!

M & J

I think this is the very first time we’ve had this question in this way. I read the email with trepidation, worried you would tell us the sex of the baby and skew our response—and you did not! I wish you did not know, either, since it seems as if knowing just HAS TO affect the naming process. I have a cousin who wanted gender-neutral names, and what they did with each pregnancy was deliberately NOT find out the sex of the baby before birth, and chose one name to give the child regardless. It struck me as a good way to be really, really sure the sex of the baby was not affecting the choice. Well, no putting that knowledge back in the box at this point, of course! I mention it only for the sake of other parents who might be looking for a similar type of name, and may want to consider using that method.

I was thinking about this letter while making dinner, and some of the kids were around, so I mentioned it to them, and it led to a pretty fun discussion. The biggest thing I took away from it was something Elizabeth said (referring to some of the names you mentioned and also to some of the ones we came up with): she kept saying “That name is only ‘gender-neutral’ for [girls/boys].” The first one she said this about was the name Charlie: “That name is only ‘gender-neutral’ for girls.” That is, if we encounter a little boy named Charlie, we don’t think “Oh, what a great gender-neutral name!”; if we encounter a little girl named Charlie, we might think that very thing.

I realize this sounds like it doesn’t make sense (in large part due to the use of “gender-neutral” in an overly casual way, and as if it’s in quotes each time), but it came back to my mind again and again as a useful filter for name candidates. Certain names are USED for both boys and girls, but they have CROSSED in one direction—almost always when a name “for boys” starts to be used for girls. Such a name on a boy still seems like “a boy name”; the change is that it also feels usable for a girl, in a way we might call gender-neutral, but it isn’t: when we call a girl Sam or Max or Charlie, part of the package deal of that name is that we know it’s “boyish;” when we call a boy Sam or Max or Charlie, we are not similarly thinking the name is “girlish.” Sam is not “gender-neutral” for a boy; Sam is only “gender-neutral” for a girl. Max is not “gender-neutral” for a boy; Max is only “gender-neutral” for a girl. Do you see what I mean? I am describing this a little more than I might normally, just because I want it clear that everyone involved in the conversation was aware of the looseness/casualness of our word usage. It was a useful shorthand for us to say what we meant, even though we were being loose/casual (and therefore not fully accurate) with the term.

For a name to be true gender-neutral, I think we would have to see the name and not be able to guess if the person were a boy or a girl, and not feel surprise either way. There are not very many names like this—and individual experience is going to affect it to some extent, particularly because you are looking for unusual names many of us may not have had much real-life experience with. For example, some of us are going to think of Casey as a gender-neutral name, because we will have known male and female Caseys (I graduated high school with one male and one female Casey, and those were the only Caseys I’d known, so the name was established for me as very neutral), but maybe others of us have only known male Caseys, or don’t know ANY Caseys and only know it from Casey at the Bat, and would think of it as VERY boy, and be surprised to see it on a girl. In my kids’ particular school/classes, there are about as many boy Averys as girl Averys, and only a couple of each: if I saw the name Avery, I would not be able to guess and would not be surprised either way; but people in different circles or with younger kids might feel pretty confident guessing a baby Avery was a girl, now that the name has risen dramatically in popularity for girls while staying at about the same not-very-common level for boys.

And of course spelling can play a huge role. Elizabeth wrote “Bertie/Birdie!” on the list, with enthusiasm. But to me, Bertie is boy (even though I knew a Roberta/Bertie/Bert growing up—but that felt like Samantha/Sam or Charlotte/Charlie to me: boyish nickname), Birdie is girl. Similarly, I wanted to add Lee to the list—but then realized that, while I wouldn’t be VERY surprised to find a girl Lee, I would EXPECT a Lee to be a boy; I would expect a Leigh to be a girl. Cameron seems gender-neutral to me: I wouldn’t be able to guess, and I wouldn’t be surprised either way; but if there were a K or a Y in the spelling, I’d guess girl and be surprised if boy—even though I know some boy babies are given spellings with K’s and Y’s.

Well. It’s a delightful puzzle. I do think you’d be wise to see if you could loosen your other rules as much as you possibly can, given what a very small pool of names you’ll be working with. You’ve already eliminated ALMOST ALL of the names by wanting something gender-neutral; if you then eliminate names of a certain level of popularity, and names with certain numbers of syllables and so forth, you might end up eliminating ALL the names—or leaving yourself with only names you don’t like very much. I recommend starting with the list “Gender-Neutral Names We Like,” without regard for popularity/syllables/etc., and even including names you’re sure you won’t use (those can still be useful for noticing sounds/styles you’re drawn to), in order to get the biggest, happiest, heartiest possible pile to choose from and work with. Later you can use the other rules/preferences to make finer decisions.

I think River is a pretty good option. Seeing the name, I would not know if the person were male or female, and I would not be surprised either way. In 2020 in the United States (the 2021 data will likely be out in May), the Social Security Administration reports that the name River was #129 for boys (2,771 new baby boys in 2020), and #186 for girls (1,540 new baby girls in 2020). Usage is rising for both boys and girls, which surprised me; I don’t have anyone named River in my circle, which made me feel incorrectly as if the name were very unusual.

I don’t think the name Larkin is ugly, but of course that’s going to be a very subjective thing. I think it has some strong consonant sounds, and it’s uncommon (in 2020, it was given to 85 new baby girls and 46 new baby boys); those two things combined might be causing a reaction. I think once everyone got used to it, the reaction would stop. The name Larkin is not in the Top 1000 for either girls or boys in the United States; I would have added “and never has been,” except that in 1903, 1905, and 1909, it brushed briefly into that range for boys. (Which is a little bit interesting, because the name Larkin was #822 for boys in 1903, then out of the Top 1000 in 1904, then back at #728 in 1905; I suspect this is mostly because of low/unreliable data from that time period. In 1903, there were 9 boys named Larkin; all we know about 1904 is that there were 4 or fewer; in 1905 there were 12. Currently, with more/better data, the #822 boy name in the U.S. was used for 278 babies; the #728 boy name in the U.S. was used for 335 babies; a name used for only 9 or 12 babies would be nowhere near the Top 1000.)

I’m trying to think what I would have thought if I’d encountered a Larkin before working on this post. I think I would have assumed girl, because I would have thought the parents were going for the nickname Lark, which strikes me as feminine even though there is no particular reason it should be. I would be a little surprised to find the name belonged to a boy, but not shocked or anything. I would be quite a bit more surprised if I heard the name Lark and then found it belonged to a boy. If I encountered the name Lark on a girl, it would not seem gender-neutral to me.

I’d like to reclaim Jules from the rejected list. While I do know it can be used as a nickname, I see it as much more of a given name than, say, Sam or Max, which can ALSO be given names but I see them more as nicknames. Again, this is all so subjective. But I think of Jules as a real standard given name, probably almost entirely because of Jules Verne. If I encountered a Jules on a class Valentine’s list, I would not know if the child were a boy or a girl. If I heard it as a nickname, I would be more likely to think girl, but that’s because there are so many more Julias/Julies in my own age group, so I’m accustomed to Jules as the kind of pet name that would be spoken but not written on a homework paper / class list.

Let’s see if we can think of some more options to consider.

The names Remy and Rowan made me think of Rory, Rudy, Finley, and Reece.

I am more familiar with Rory as a name for girls, but only because of the television series Gilmore Girls; other than that, I am aware of it as a unisex name. In 2020 in the U.S., the name Rory was given to 670 new baby girls and 989 new baby boys.

I would have thought of Rudy as a name used for boys, except for Rudy on The Cosby Show (her name was short for Rudith, something I didn’t know until just now when I looked it up). In 2020 in the U.S., the name Rudy was given to 16 new baby girls and 261 new baby boys. Hm. So perhaps this falls into “It’s only ‘gender-neutral’ for girls” territory.

In 2020 in the U.S., the name Finley was given to 1,429 new baby girls and 1,080 new baby boys. For me, part of the appeal of the name is that the first half leans “boy” but the second half leans “girl.” If I encountered a Finley on a classroom list, I would not know whether to guess boy or girl and would need to be told; I would not be surprised either way.

Reece is a little trickier, because Rhys and Reese will be affecting our impressions as well. Rhys is “the boy spelling,” used in the U.S. in 2020 for 38 new baby girls and 702 new baby boys. Reese is more “the girl spelling,” used for 1,867 new baby girls and 334 boys. Reece is closest to unisex: 137 new baby girls and 469 new baby boys. If I saw a Rhys on a class list, I would assume boy and be surprised by girl; if I saw Reece or Reese, I would not be able to guess and would not be surprised by whatever the answer.

Charlie from the rejected list, combined with finding Casey listed for both girls and boys in the Celtic names section of  The Baby Name Wizard, makes me want to push for Casey. In 2020 in the U.S., the name Casey was given to 230 new baby girls and 541 new baby boys.

Emlyn is also listed for both girls and boys in the Celtic section. In 2020 in the U.S., the name Emlyn was given to 25 new baby girls; it is not in that year’s database for boys. I suspect in the U.S., the Em + lyn combination reads almost completely “girl.”

Oh, and Morgan! In 2020 in the U.S., the name Morgan was given to 1,483 new baby girls and 363 new baby boys.

The names Briar and Aspen sent me down the nature name path, and I wondered about Linden—which seems like a softer alternative to Larkin. I probably would guess girl, though, especially after Laura morphed to Laurie and then to Lauren: it would seem to me as if someone was doing the same with the name Linda, even though I also know the nature origin of the name. But Lyndon Johnson makes the name familiar for boys. And the nickname Denny/Dennie, because I happen to know a GIRL Dennie, feels potentially unisex to me.

Kit made me think of Quinn, even though that’s a very different style. In 2020 in the U.S. the name Quinn was given to 3,058 new baby girls and 669 new baby boys.

Hollis and Ellis are two names that come to my mind when I’m looking for unisex names—though because of the potential nicknames Holly and Ellie, they come to my mind more when I’m looking for less-feminine names for girls. In 2020 in the U.S., the name Hollis was given to 145 new baby girls and 199 new baby boys; the name Ellis was given to 463 new baby girls and 1,004 new baby boys. That is a lot of -s endings, though, with the surname!

Maybe Lane? Not quite naturey, but at least outdoors. The nickname Lanie feels feminine, but my first encounter with the name Lane was in the movie Better Off Dead, where Lane is a cute boy (in fact, his name is Lane Meyer, which may rule it out for this baby), so that lodged the name in my mind as unisex. In 2020 in the U.S., the name Lane was given to 103 new baby girls and 1,360 new baby boys.

I know you said you’d prefer not to have nickname names, and I do hear you, and I too generally prefer to avoid nickname names—but I also wonder if those could be the solution to the puzzle, particularly the ones not currently used for new babies. Terry, for example: I have known boy Terrys and girl Terrys. Seeing it on a class list, I would not know if the child were a boy or a girl, and I would not be surprised either way. But I WOULD be charmed to see that name on a current child. And it doesn’t feel like “a nickname name” to me the way more current nicknames (Max, etc.) do—probably because in the age group where I’m familiar with Terrys, that was the era when people were called almost exclusively by their nicknames. So “Terry” feels less like a nickname for Terrance/Theresa, and more like just Their Name.

Name update:

Thank you Swistle and the comment section for your help picking a name!

In the end, we stuck with our 2 top names going to the hospital, levied by yours and your readers’ approval of both the names River and Larkin. We decided we would wait til we met the baby at the hospital to choose, based on their face/vibe/birth. And we chose Larkin! Born 6/7/22.

We were encouraged by your analysis that Lark and Larkin were somewhat gender-ambiguous and not necessarily ugly. We’re looking forward to when Larkin can identify their gender themself and not be hindered by our name choice.

Thanks again!

Update (and photo) on Baby Boy Slickter, Brother to Eden

Update on Baby Girl W00let, Sister to Eleanor/Ellie and Zachary/Zach

Dear Swistle,

This is not urgent; this baby isn’t arriving until April. However, my partner and I are tripping up on a baby naming issue that we’d love help with.

Neither of us have strong feelings about girl’s names, except that they be easily pronounced by my US based family and his Dutch family. We want to avoid the letters R, J and G as they are pronounced so differently in English and Dutch.

I remember you mentioning you have some Dutch heritage, so we’d love suggestions!

Family names we’re considering using in the middle name spot are Ilse (his mother’s name), Inge and Lieselotte.

The surname this baby will have is Van der Laan.

He likes Anouk, Eve, Margriet and Iris.

I like the names Amelia, Winter, Lucy, Flora and Rumi (don’t think I’d ever use it, but it’s 100% my favourite name). Searching your blog to see what you suggest for people who like Emilia, I discovered a lovely name which Erica had chosen for a daughter: Lua! Which I adore but my partner says no to. Dang. Rumi and now Lua are the only two names I’ve really liked so far.

We had three names we like for boys: Sam, Sebastian and Ruben. Ruben has the Dutch r issue that I’m not keen on.

This will be our first and likely only child.

Do you have any words of wisdom or inspiration for us? I’m a lot tireder than I thought I’d be, and finding it hard to engage with the naming of our kiddo. Sending this email off to you is bringing me a great sense of relief: you’re like a fairy godmother of names, and I feel our child is in safe hands with you providing input!

Thanks, Swistle.

Kind regards,

Zoe

Oh, dear—so, I DO have Dutch heritage, but all I know about Dutch pronunciation is little assorted things, such as that the surname Groen is pronounced Groon (but the creator of The Simpsons is Groening and it’s pronounced GRAIN-ing, so I am not sure what is what), and that Thijs is pronounced like Tice-rhymes-with-rice, and I know that the J is pronounced like Y, and that allegedly my family mispronounces our own surname—but that’s pretty close to all I know about how names are pronounced in The Netherlands.

As for what is easily pronounced in the U.S., I know I can’t speak for the U.S., but I can say that as one single U.S. person, these are the first names on your list I am not immediately/confidently sure how to pronounce: Anouk, Margriet, Rumi (is it the same as the word roomy/roomie? it seems like it must be), Lua (it MUST be LOO-ah, but I would still feel tentative). Oh—but I see what you actually say is that the name needs to be able to be easily pronounced by your U.S. family, and I feel that if I were TOLD the pronunciation of any of these names, I WOULD be able to easily pronounce them. So that’s not an issue.

If the baby is going to have your partner’s Dutch surname, it seems balanced for the baby to NOT have a Dutch first name, but instead to have a name more from the mother’s heritage. And while we’re here: is there any room still to consider hyphenating the surname, or using your surname? It is so baffling to me the way time after time, baby after baby, generation after generation, parents married or not: if one parent is a man, the baby is almost always given the man’s surname. WHY. WHY. WHY. WHY. WHY. If I were having babies with a man NOW, AFTER years and years of doing this name blog, I would keep my OWN name and I would give all my children MY surname, JUST TO PROVIDE THE TINIEST BIT OF BALANCE TO THE UNIVERSE, GAH

From your partner’s list I like Eve and Iris. Eve is kind of a lot of V with his surname, which can be a plus or a minus. To me I think it is a plus. I would like to be named Eve Van der Laan, I think. But I would also like to be named Iris Van der Laan.

But, again: if we are using his family’s surname for the baby (i.e., he will have the same surname as his own baby but you will not have the same surname as your own baby), then I feel STRONGLY INCLINED to AT LEAST let you have more say in the FIRST name. Of the names on your list, the ones most to my own personal tastes are FLORA (!!!), Amelia, and Lucy. I personally feel that Flora Van der Laan is a MAGNIFICENT name, and one that I would very much want for myself. But that is only what SWISTLE likes, and what would be best is to choose what YOU like. Perhaps the deal could be this: he gets to share HIS surname with the child; the first name is chosen by the two of you from among YOUR favorites; and then the middle name is a family name from YOUR side, or else one of your favorite first name options that he does not want to use as the first name. So: Flora/Winter/Amelia/etc., whatever the two of you agree on from your list; then a family name from your side (I highly recommend adding your own first and middle and last names to the list of candidates), or else Rumi/Lua, for the middle; and then Van der Laan. Or if he balks at this deal, perhaps he would prefer to flip it: you could go with a name the two of you agree on from among HIS first-name choices, and then his mom’s name for the middle, and then YOUR surname. Under no circumstances do I think this baby should have (1) a name from his list of first-name choices (especially one of the Dutch options), (2) and then his mother’s name as the middle, (3) and then his family’s surname.

A first option that came to mind: Evelina. Sort of like Eve, sort of like Amelia. Evelina Rumi Van der Laan. Evelina Zoe Van der Laan. Evelina Ilse [Your Surname].

There are a lot of florals in your lists, so I suggest Violet: I think Violet Van der Laan is pretty snappy and memorable. I also love Violet with your surname, or with a hyphenated surname.

I wonder about Dahlia or Delia. Delia Ilse [Your Surname]. Delia Zoe Van der Laan. Dahlia Rumi Van der Laan. Delia Lua Van der Laan.

Sort of similar to Rumi: Romy. Romy Van der Laan. But is the R an issue?

Would your partner like Lua better if it were Luca? Luna? Lula? Lucia? Lia? Or Lucy seems like a nice option from your list: sort of like Lua + Iris. And you could call her Lua as a pet name.

Would you like Anouk better if it were Anne or Anna or Annika or Lucianna?

If you were having a boy, I’d suggest using your family surname as a first name, if it’s the surname I see in the email. For a girl, I wonder if you want to consider using it without the final letter.

Hi Swistle!

You helped us name our son in 2017, Thomas Baldwin Keller, he goes by Tommy.

We have another boy coming this May and are desperate for some new ideas! While we would welcome more kids, this baby is YEARS in the making, so likely our last.

Our previous names that were on our old list seem boring now to me; Brooks, Liam, Wyatt (still like but can’t use), Graham.

I really like the idea of having a formal name and then a nickname, but not necessary. We had great girl names, but I can’t seem to match my excitement around those; Campbell, June, Reese, Annie, Caroline.

We can’t use; Teddy, John, Charlie, Jack

Middle name would likely be my maiden name, Petersen or my dads full name, James. Could also be my husbands full name, Jackson.

Our Top Contenders:

Bo, what would a formal name be? Is Bo a nickname for William?
Everett James Keller (Rhett), weird to spell a nickname different?
Whitaker James Keller (Whit), trying to decide if I feel like its too girly?
Briggs Petersen/or Jacks Keller

Very open to new ideas. I like the unique exciting ones, but do worry I will chicken out in the hospital and will walk out with something super traditional!

Thank you!!

Katie

I might consider Bo as a nickname for Robert. Though with a brother named Thomas and called Tommy, Robert/Robbie feels more natural to me.

Everett/Rhett is a familiar combination to me. It also feels familiar to have nicknames spelled differently than the given name—as with Thomas/Tommy, where it’s Tommy and not Thommy.

Whitaker and Briggs feel like such a different style than Thomas! It’s not a clash, but it’s a surprising leap. There’s no rule that you have to stay with the same style, but it’s something to take into consideration if you’d LIKE the names to coordinate. (If I encountered this kind of pairing in the wild, I would guess the parents had felt forced to use a family name for the first child, and then had switched to their own naming style. Because this happens pretty commonly, it makes the traditional/unusual combination a little less startling than it might otherwise be.)

I don’t find Whitaker girlish, but I find Whitaker Keller kind of a lot of K and -er.

I don’t want to eliminate the option of using your birth surname as the middle name—but if you decide not to use it ANYWAY, then I suggest Peter as a first name. It’s traditional/familiar like Thomas, but feels surprisingly uncommon. Peter James Keller; Thomas and Peter; Tommy and Pete/PJ. More options:

August Keller; Thomas and August; Tommy and Gus
Benjamin Keller; Thomas and Benjamin; Tommy and Benny/Ben
Calvin Keller, if you like the alliteration; Thomas and Calvin; Tommy and Cal
Camden Keller, again with alliteration; Thomas and Camden; Tommy and Cam
Daniel Keller; Thomas and Daniel; Tommy and Danny/Dan
Edmund Keller; Thomas and Edmund; Tommy and Eddie
Franklin Keller; Thomas and Franklin; Tommy and Frankie
George Keller; Thomas and George; Tommy and Georgie
Harvey Keller; Thomas and Harvey; Tommy and Harvey
Henry Keller; Thomas and Henry; Tommy and Hank
Joseph Keller; Thomas and Joseph; Tommy and Joey
Louis Keller; Thomas and Louis; Tommy and Louie
Nicholas Keller; Thomas and Nicholas; Tommy and Nick
Nolan Keller; Thomas and Nolan; Tommy and Nolan
Samuel Keller; Thomas and Samuel; Tommy and Sammy
Wesley Keller; Thomas and Wesley; Tommy and Wes
Wilson Keller; Thomas and Wilson; Tommy and Wils/Will

Hi Swistle,

I’m expecting a second baby boy in August. I love the name Felix, but my partner thinks it is a “cat name.” I’m having trouble finding other boy names that I like as much.

Our details are as follows: last name sounds like Hues, big brother is Cyrus, and if this baby had been a girl she would have been called Daphne. The middle name will likely be Francis, an honor name. I prefer two syllable names, but am open to suggestions. My partner tends to veto names that can’t be shortened into a nickname.

Other names:
Hugo (can’t use because of our last name)

Jasper (I like but don’t love this name. I also have this silly idea fueled by pregnancy hormones that all of us could have initials in alphabetical order – I’m E, partner is B and brother is C so I was hoping to find a name I loved with an A, D, or F to fill in the sequence)

Milo/ Miles (my partner likes Milo a lot, but I’m lukewarm)

Thank you for your help!

I am immediately alerted to this sentence: “I’m having trouble finding other boy names that I like as much.” Before we suggest any name candidates, I am going to suggest a mental reset: it is entirely possible, and in fact mathematically/logically likely, that you will NOT be able to find any names that you like as much as your top favorite name. So there is no sense comparing other names to it, or expecting them to measure up; the actual task here is to find your favorite name of all the OTHER, NON-FELIX names. If your partner does then end up coming around to Felix (and “it’s a cat name” is a pretty dated objection, and shows me that your partner might not be doing the necessary work to get caught up on current naming practices), that’ll be great news! And if not, you will have another name, a name the two of you can agree on, and maybe in time you will grow to like it as much as (or more than!) Felix.

I think the alphabet thing is fun, and should be used only as a fun name-generating exercise and/or a way to decide between two equally-loved candidates. It feels to me (though of course it only matters what it feels to YOU) as if ONLY a D-name works to satisfy this goal: the others don’t fill in any gaps, and in fact accentuate the gaps. I guess F works a little, in that then we have B&C and E&F. But it’s hard to find the motivation to make that happen. One parent and one child, and then…the other parent and the other child? And choosing an A name means you’re the only one stranded. And if you’re planning more children, it seems like this paints you into a corner. But I agree it would be fun/satisfying if it DID work out.

I don’t suppose you’d want to consider Francis as the first name? Frances has been gradually coming into style for girls, and I feel as if Francis/Frankie/Frank for boys is a very appealing traditional-but-not-overused option. Cyrus and Francis; Cy and Frankie. And then this opens up the possibility of using Felix as the middle name (especially if the honor name comes from your partner’s side of the family), which is a great way to salvage a name that one parent loves and the other parent vetoes. Francis Felix Hues.

Because both Hugo and Milo were mentioned, I am going to mention a few more -o names, even though they don’t really have nicknames: Otto, Leo, Nico, Theo, Roscoe, Arlo, Elio, Tycho. (Is Tycho worth a lifetime of correcting people who naturally pronounce it like TIKE-ko instead of TEEK-ko?) You could use Leonardo, with the nickname Leo. Marco lets you shorten to Marc; Matteo gives you Matt/Mattie/Teo.

Okay! Now to find some more candidates.

Isaac? I don’t think it has the VIBE of Felix, but it has a nice snappy sound, and shortens to Ike or Zac. I think I like the shared long-I sound with Cyrus. Cyrus and Isaac; Cy and Ike/Zac.

Xavier? It feels classical like Cyrus, and has the X of Felix. It doesn’t really shorten to the kind of nickname someone might write on a homework paper, but I suspect a person might find themselves saying Xave/Xavey to rhyme with Dave/Davy. Cyrus and Xavier; Cy and Xavy.

Frederick. Has that old-fashioned feeling, with some of the crackle of Felix. Cyrus and Frederick; Cy and Freddie/Fred/Fritz.

Ezekiel. Again the crackle and the old-fashioned sound catch my eye/ear, though that might not have anything to do with why you like Felix. Cyrus and Ezekiel; Cy and Zeke.

Or Ezra for something a little shorter/simpler. Cyrus and Ezra; Cy and Ez.

Aidric. No short form that comes to mind other than Rick/Ricky, which feels dated—but SO dated that it could be coming back. I have noted one Johnny and one Tommy and one Ernie and one Eddie and one Mickey (!) among the children in my circle, so perhaps we are heading into an era of bringing back nicknames, especially the freckle-face/gap-tooth ones from the Baby Boomer era. Cyrus and Aidric; Cy and Ricky.

Julius. This repeats the ending of Cyrus, but gives you the nickname Jules. Cyrus and Julius; Cy and Jules.

Rufus. Again, a repeated ending, but I have loved this name since Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure, and my love for it continues on. Cyrus and Rufus; Cy and…oh. Nothing. Well, it’s borderline rhymey anyway.

Another of my little lovies is Alfred. Oh gosh, I think it’s so sweet and warm—yet with full dignity, not at all cutesy or babyish. And nicknames to burn! Al, Alfie, Freddie! With your surname, he sounds like such a little warm-hearted little gentleman/farmer! Alfred Hues, Alfie Hues! Cyrus and Alfred; Cy and Alfie.

Earnest is a name I feel we could all love again if we heard it as the WORD earnest. Such a nice word! Sincere and open-hearted! Cyrus and Earnest; Cy and Ernie.

Edmund. Cyrus and Edmund. Cy and Eddie.

Barnaby. I mention this because to me the name Felix has a certain playful energy. Barnaby has a similar feeling to me. It’s fun to say; it’s fun to write. Cyrus and Barnaby; Cy and…hm. Not Barney, I don’t think, not yet. Barn. Barns. B. Nibby. His Nibs. I feel certain something would emerge.

Abram. Cyrus and Abram; Cy and Abe.

Vincent. Cyrus and Vincent; Cy and Vinnie/Vince.

Hello Swistle,

You helped us name our daughter two years ago and now I am even more desperate for your help naming our son, whom we are expecting in early April.

Our daughter’s name is Maren Luna. We love that her first name is not very popular and we chose it based on it’s meaning, which is Latin for sea. Luna we love as a combination of the sea and the moon, and we were inspired to name her that from Luna Lovegood (we are both avid Harry Potter fans).

Anyways, our biggest priority with names is something that is meaningful to us. The less popular, the better. But we would choose a very popular name that means something to us over something obscure. We love nature names, ocean-related names, or others that have a great meaning.

The only two names we are considering right now are Ezra Kai and Rhys Raymond.
Ezra – helper
Kai – sea

Rhys – ardor
Raymond – wise protector

We also like Shai, but are struggling with a good middle name to go with it.

Ezra has been a favorite of ours for a long time. If Maren had been a boy, we would’ve named her Ezra. I’ve always liked the name Rhys and Raymond is a family name (although we would not have considered it if we didn’t also like what it means).

My husband loves Ezra Kai, but there is something about it that I’m not super sold on. Ezra with another middle name might work for us, but I have seriously struggled to figure out another one we like. My husband likes Rhys but doesn’t love the spelling, although he also doesn’t want to spell it like Reece. I like the name Ezra better than Rhys but I love the sound of Rhys Raymond way more than Ezra Kai. Boy names we had considered but rejected for one reason or another are: Oliver, Rowan, Ash,and Silas.

If this baby had been a girl, my list included names such as Indigo, Elowyn Jade, Elowyn Sage, Daphne Flora, and Daphne Laurel.

At this point we have accepted that we may not manage to name him until he’s here. And we feel like we have two decent options. We’d love to have a couple more options to choose from though and thought that’s where your genius may come in handy!

Thank you so much,
Lauren

A quick one this evening! Here is my Fast-and-Could-Be-Wrong Take: I think that of these two options, the obvious choice is Ezra; and that the main issue is that you need a different middle name. I think you WANT to like Kai because it can be said to mean “sea,” like your daughter’s name, but that it’s not working for you—possibly BECAUSE it can be said to mean the same as your daughter’s name. (Also, the name Ezra Kai is reminding me of something I can’t put my finger on: something about the rhythm/sound of it is reminding me of, like, the name of a special kind of battle in Star Trek/Wars. Like, an “I challenge you to ______!” context/)

The most important issue to you is that the name have personal meaning, so obviously I can’t help with that—but I can pull from your email and suggest Ezra Raymond or Ezra Rhys or Ezra Shai or Ezra Indigo or Ezra Sage; or Ezra with any of your other rejected first names (Oliver, Rowan, Ash, Silas); or looking for a middle name with special meaning to you that also has alliteration similar to Rhys Raymond.