Hi Swistle! I have a baby-naming dilemma and need quick and honest feedback. It’s basically the “Caroline Divine” problem all over again, minus the potential for stripper name jokes.
We are expecting a baby girl in a few short weeks through the miracle of adoption. It is very important to us that either the first or middle name be a family name. I love old-fashioned, classic names. And there is only one girl name that makes my heart sing. Plus it is both old-timey and it is my grandmother’s middle name. Alice. It sounds like perfection to me. I can imagine cooing that name to an infant, screaming it at a playground and it wearing well on a child from infancy on through to adulthood.
The only problem is our last name. Mor@les. (Yep, rhymes with Alice). Over the years, we’ve laughed about how sing-songy it is and I’ve tried to set that name aside as one that just cannot be used. But I keep coming back to it. Other names do not make my heart sing. I keep trying to make “Alice Mor@les” work.
So my questions are: (1) Is “Alice Mor@les” ridiculous? Or just memorable in a good way? (We’ve heard it so many time in jest that we’ve become numb to how it sounds on fresh ears) Asking for honest opinions.
(2) Assuming that the question to #1 is “yes, that’s just ridiculous,” can we make “Alice Mor@les” work? And if so, how?
A few considerations:
Allison and Alicia are not options, as those names are already used for my husband’s cousins with the same last name. Elise just does not have the same ring.
I’m not a double-name type person, although I’m not entirely ruling that out if we find the right one.
I’ve considered using “Alice” as a middle name but I don’t think it pairs well with the other first names that we’ve liked. The other name combos on our shortlist are: Anna Catherine (but not used as a double name) Amelia Rose, Eloise (no middle name with this one yet).
Thanks in advance!
The name Alice Mor@les fails my “Would I want this name for myself?” test, and it fails it hard. My own opinion is that while technically you could use it, you should not. I kept accidentally mispronouncing the surname in my head, so I’m going to write the name here the way I wrote it to remind myself of the correct pronunciation: Alice More-Alice.
The framing of your email sends me a message of desperation: you realize this name doesn’t work, but you keep feeling like maybe if you want the name badly enough, or if you can demonstrate that it REALLY IS the best name, then the reality of the situation will change. Maybe there is something you haven’t yet thought of, and when you think of it, the name will suddenly work and you’ll get to use it! You’re stuck, and until you’re unstuck, you’re not working on what you need to be working on, which is finding the name you’ll be using instead.
My inclination is to give you my usual advice for situations in which one or both parents are stuck on a name they can’t use. The first step is to make a fresh, back-to-the-drawing-board list of names you like that are not Alice, but without comparing those names to Alice: the goal is not to find a name you like better than the name Alice (this is likely impossible), the goal is ONLY to find your favorites of the non-Alice names. Pretend you ALREADY named your first child Alice, and now you are looking for a name for a second child: you would not then be thrashing around saying you just HAD to use the name Alice again, you would instead be getting down to the business of finding which name you liked best of all the names that remained. (And make sure you’re trying each first/last combination to see if you like the way they sound together without the middle name connecting them.)
I still recommend that plan, and I think it could help. However, I have another possible solution. It’s radical, but shouldn’t be: use the other parent’s surname.
You say “our” surname, so I assume you have a shared family surname. I won’t assume any more details than that, but that gives us enough: unless you and your husband both came to the marriage with the family surname More-Alice, then there is another potential family surname to use instead. If it’s the one I see in your email address, it’s still a teensy bit sing-song because of the repeated ending, but definitely on the totally usable side of the line, and I’d say appealingly so. Change the entire household’s surname to that other surname. Use Alice. Be happy.
If this won’t work (and I will try not to get angry first thing in the morning about the various reasons it might never even really be considered as a legitimate option, even with such high stakes), then it’s back to the drawing board. There can be a lot of pressure in our society to find The! PERFECT!! baby name!!!, and it really isn’t necessary: your baby’s name has one job, and it is to serve as an identifying detail for your baby. Your job as parents is to find a good, solid, useful name for her to write on the tops of her school papers so the teacher knows whose papers they are, and for her to put on her resume so the boss knows who to ask for when calling for an interview. If the name also makes your heart sing, that’s a nice bonus, but it’s way too high a standard to be the minimum—especially if you are adamant about using an honor name, which severely limits your options. Give the child a good, solid, useful, honor name she can write on homework and resumes. Make it a name you like quite well, a name that gives you a sense of satisfaction at having chosen a good, solid, useful, honor name. Don’t require heart-song from the name; the heart-song will come from how you feel about the child herself.
Take consolation in knowing you are in VAST good company with all the other parents who couldn’t use their own favorite names for one reason or another: maybe it was the other parent’s ex’s name, maybe the other parent hated the name, maybe it was the terrible father-in-law’s name, maybe it was already the step-child’s name, maybe it is laughable with a sibling name, etc. This disappointment will be added to a hopefully short list of lifetime disappointments, and you will always hold the name dear, and you will tell your daughter the story of how that was her almost-name, and you can perhaps get some comfort by convincing other parents to use it. Perhaps your daughter, after years of hearing how you pined for the name, will give it to your first granddaughter.
Totally agree that it’s completely unusable.
I agree. You must find a new name. And you must NOT use Alice. I would cry every.single.day if that was my name.
Nailed it, Swistle. BTW did you write this at the hospital? Because that takes multitasking to a new level!
I think it’s kind of fun! I do not hear “More Alice” at all. There is so much freedom she has as she gets older to go by what she wants if it bothers her that much. She can go by her middle name, a smooth of first and middle, or a nickname. She also can choose her last name when she is older so she’s not stuck with it if she doesn’t want it. I grew up with a Miller McMillan and he was fine and it was a fine name. If you love the name that much, use it! (I also tend to prefer the unique side of naming rather than the blending in.)
Calling the surname More-Alice was beyond brilliant, because that’s exactly what it is!
Too bad about Alicia, although it really doesn’t have the same trim feeling of Alice so it might not have been the solution anyway.
I nearly first-pumped (Yessss!) when you suggested that the solution was to use the other person’s surname. That was my first thought. All your advice on this question is, as usual, spot-on. I look forward to hearing what they decide.
I kind of love Swistle’s idea of using the other parent’s last name. My aunt didn’t take my uncle’s last name when they got married, and they had two kids: one with each last name. Their son has his dad’s last name and their daughter has her mom’s. Of course, this might not work if you and your partner have the same last name, or if you don’t plan on having multiple children, but I think it’s a great idea otherwise.
Every time I hear of a family doing this it makes me happy!
Definitely wouldn’t use Alice on the birth certificate but with your last name you could definitely call her “Alice” or Allie as a nickname.
I feel your pain, because Alice is a wonderful name, but “Alice Moralice” really sounds way too matching.
Hm, what about French version of Alice – Alix? At least for my ears, “Alix Moralice” does not sound that bad at all. Or Russian – Alisa? Alisa Moralice. Or Italian – Alessia? Alessia Moralice.
Or maybe a hyphenated first name? Alice-Jane Moralice, Alice-Anne Moralice, Alice-Kate Moralice, etc.? It reduces that matchinness considerably, but there’s always a risk people will get lazy and only use the first part of the name…
Aline, Alexia or maybe even Ellis could also be an option.
Alice is not usable with Mor@les. There exists an untapped wealth of simple old-fashioned names with the feel of Alice though! Alba, Beatrice, Clara, Della, Etta, Florence, Greta, Iris, Julia, Lily, Nora, Olive, Polly, Silvia, Tessa, Vivian, Willa…. I agree with Swistle that you need to start over with Alice off the table!
I DO know families where mom kept her maiden, passed to kids, dad kept his own. THAT may work for you.
I wonder if you would like the name Elise? Or Elisa? This was on our list, and I loved the nickname Ellie.
You are in good company: my very, very favorite girl name is Anna/Annie/Ann but my last name is Frank and so I have daughters and none are named Ann. While Ann Frank is a lovely, lovely name and a lovely, heartbreaking namesake, I wouldn’t want to be named that anymore than I would want to be named Eleanor Roosevelt or Harriet Tubman–or, honestly, Alice More-Alice. I think there are singsongy names that really do work (think: Kasey Kasem) and there are plenty of naming “rules” that are fun to break a little. But, I agree that Alice is just not going to work with your last name. (Though–I do think it would be an absolutely perfect cat or dog name for your family and the fun of calling a pet Alice More-Alice would never get old to me!) My other suggestion (besides saving for a pet’s name) would be to hyphenate your last names and see if that takes the goofiness out of More-Alice. But, this solution may not be for you or your family. Alice is a wonderful name, but there are many, many other fish in the sea. I never got to name any of my daughters Ann, but I am still wild about the names that they did get. And! I’m still wild about Ann for many of the reasons you like Alice (it’s clipped and wearable and classic and ages well). Maybe that would work for you? Annie Morales would look perfect written on a kindergarten cubby or shouted on a playground and Ann Morales sounds like a true lady boss! Other names I’d suggest for you are:
Frances
Helen
Fern
Jane
or if you want something a little singsongy and spunky, I think Maggie (short for Margaret or Magnolia) or Molly are pretty wearable and memorable and fun to say with Morales. I also think a girls name that could be shortened to Mac sounds spunky and fun with Morales: Mac Morales. Any Mac__ names in the family tree?
I’m sorry, but I agree with others that Alice Mor@les is very bad. I’d either change the surname and go with Alice or change the first name. So many great options above. Congrats on your baby; other ideas:
Clara
Vivian
Lydia
Raquel
Elizabeth
Alexis/Alexandra
Tessa
Hmmm, I think perhaps I’ve been pronouncing Mor@les wrong or it just sounds really different in an English accent? To me it would be more like More-arl-ez with the middle syllable sounding like the beginning of Arlington – but I just got my Californian husband to say it and.. oh. Yep. I see.
I love the idea of using your maiden name as the family name! But I get that might not work for everyone. I do know someone called Alyse? Pronounced Al-eese. According to Behind the Name it’s a variant of Alice? Or Alexandra or Alexia and call her Al or Allie?
Though I’m in a tiny minority here so far, I will say that I think it’s totally usable, especially with a middle name. Alice Jane is the one that came to me first and can be shortened to A.J. or kept as Alice Jane or Alice-Jane. Also, always using a nickname works. Ally is adorable, as are Lise and Lisa.
I like a one syllable middle name in this case. Alice Rae, Alice Mae, Alice Kay, Alice Joy, Alice Leigh…Alice Rose and she could go by her middle name. A. Rose Mor@les. I think there are definitely a variety of workarounds for this.
I would not use Alice. Not just because it rhymes but because it sounds like Alice More Alice. Which just sounds strange, like her name is “not just Alice, but MORE Alice”. Double Alice! It’s not just a regular rhyme like Alice Palace. Alice is a great name, but I do think it’s unusable with your last name. :(
I do think it would be ok in the middle spot.
I just love this response, Swistle.
Hard agree with Swistle that Alice Morales is unfortunately not workable. Beatrice Morales maybe?
I’m so sorry! I sympathise because my favourite boy’s name was ruined by a very famous person. Think Isaac Newton style famous. I was sad at first but honestly haven’t thought about it in years and it no longer even feels like the perfect name. You will get over Alice in the same way you get over an ex I promise!
I think in the situation of adoption it feels extra important that you and your child share a family name in a way that is less important otherwise. I would prioritise that over the first name you dream of.
What about Sarah Alice? You could call her Sally :)
Yep. Sorry, but Alice More-Alice just doesn’t work. It’s not just that it rhymes, but it rhymes in a way that makes it seem like a name repeat. Not quite as bad as something like John Johnson but awfully close. Too close.
I don’t know if I’ve ever disagreed with Swistle before, but in this case I do respectfully disagree. I think Alice Mor@les is totally usable. It sounds snappy and memorable to me. For context, I grew up in an area where the last name Mor@les was quite common (maybe it’s common everywhere?) so I don’t associate that name as MORE-Alice, even though I recognize that is what it sounds like when said slowly. I think it’s cute. For further context, I would give a hard no to the name Alice Palace, so I’m not some person who just loves rhyming names.
While I agree that Alice Morales isn’t IDEAL, I think it is usable, as long as you’re comfortable with the possibility of her opting to use a double or middle name.
In case it’s interesting for you, there is an Aliceanna Street in Baltimore!
Hello fellow Alexandra who may also live near Fells!
I’ve been there. The name I most wanted to use for my son just does not work with the last name. So, we found another name that we could both agree on. It doesn’t make my heart sing. But, it’s a solid name and my son does make my heart sing.
Best naming advice ever. And just parenting advice in general. “Don’t require heart-song from the name; the heart-song will come from the child herself.”
Exactly. Really great work, Swistle!
Just wanted to share in case it helps to know others are in a similar boat: my favourite name is H@rriet but surname is H@rrington; it just won’t work and we had to use something else. Sad but that led us to Fr@nces with the nickname Fr@nkie which I now LOVE!
Fr@nkie H@rrington is AMAZING, I love it. So spunky!!
I’m with Swistle here. While Alice is a great name, being named Alice Morales would make me very unhappy at being given a name that sounds like a joke or a cartoon character. I think you have to move on from it and start brainstorming names as Swistle suggested.
If there are names that appeal to you more than the family names, use a family name for the middle (since you especially want one here and it’s a lovely signal that she’s linked to previous generations by your love for her). Then choose one of the names that you and your husband like most for her first name. Lots of names above that are classic and old-fashioned.
Here are some more ideas:
Clarissa
Celia
Cecily
Lucy
Julia
Phoebe
Daphne
Enid
Imogen
Ada
Clara
Evelyn
Evelina
Josephine
Maud
Ivy
Matilda
Vera
Genevieve
Mabel
Daisy
Nora
Nina
Henrietta
Georgina
Adelaide
Flora
Gwendolyn
And I agree with Swistle that the baby will make your heart sing and then her name will do that once you associate with her and and everything delightful about her.
My favorite girl name is Harriet as well, but my son’s name is Ozzie so we had to pass, and we settled on Frankie (Frances) as well! We’re naming soul sisters! :-)
I’m joining the minority—I think the “-iss” and “-ez” sounding endings are different enough. I’m a huge Alice fan, so I’d say go for it. But I also understand giving up a favorite name. I have two boys but couldn’t give either of them the name Jack because our last name starts with “Hof”—too close to “off”! So I’d support or sympathize either way.
*sigh*
I agree that, as you already know, Alice cannot work for your girl.
In the same way that Oscar cannot work for the Meyer family, there are some names that aren’t meant to be.
The clever poster above mentioned using Alice as a nickname from your surname… and THAT is genius.
For other first name options:
Salome
Jemima
Beatrice
Jane
Sabrina
Lacey
Lindsey
Mallory
Bettina
Celeste
Congrats and best wishes! Please let us know what you decide!
I do not pronounce this surname as Mee-Alice at all, and in fact had an argument with my kids about how the new Spider-Man’s name shouldn’t be said that’s way, so I would find Alice to be fine, but the fact is that the poster pronounces her name that way and then that’s right…and then Alice is the wrong choice.
Argh that should say More- not Mee-.
And that not that’s – autocorrect and fat thumbs!
I’m sorry. Alice is lovely, but I agree there’s no way I’d want that for my own name or could see giving that combination to a child. Just like Amelia Bedelia is fine for a character but I wouldn’t name a human that.
If it helps at all to hear from other parents in your shoes, my favorite boy name in all the land is Levi. My last name is Levy. Levi Levy is not a name that can be usedm and I have three sons who are not named Levi. I sadly put it to rest, but I do get EXTREMELY HAPPY when I hear other children with this name.
I had a great aunt that went bubbles Alice Evelyn. I feel Like if you were open to a double name, this one works. I do think without a double name it’s a tough combo. Evelyn reminds of Alice though – maybe an alternative but I also think the other names on your list work well!
I had an acquaintance in college who’s last name was Morales. He was of Puerto Rican descent. His family pronounced his last name with the “s” silent, like… “Moh rah leh,” so when I first read this I was a little confused because that’s how I pronounced it in my head and I was thinking “Well, Alice Moh rah leh” is lovely, what’s the big deal!”
But, if you’re pronouncing it as “More-Alice” I can definitely see how it would be a little too sing-songy.
Going kind off of Swistle’s suggestion about changing the surname (which I love, but totally understand if it’s not possible), would it be possible to tap into a different pronunciation of the last name? I know it seems like a heavy suggestion, but I can see how much you love ‘Alice’ and want to use it. Maybe it’s a trade off that would be worth it to you?
Good luck!
I just thought of my comment further and realized it doesn’t really matter how YOU pronounce your name, but how other people pronounce it/perceive it and if most people perceive it as “More -Alice” then that could be a problem.
it’s certainly not ideal, but I really don’t think it’s *that* bad.
I think Elise Morales has a BEAUTIFUL ring!
I’m in the unusable camp on Alice Mor@les, but as a fellow adoptive mom, can I suggest looking at your child’s birth family for a family name that you mentioned wanting? Our girls have a name from their birth parents as their middle name and it means something to them that they have that piece of their birth family in their name.
This is a timely article!
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/aug/20/i-understand-my-wifes-lived-experience-better-meet-the-men-who-have-taken-their-wives-surnames
I love the name Alma. Might that be another option for you, allowing the first syllable of Alice but none of the rhyme?
I also like Swistle’s suggestion to change the surname if having a child named Alice is more important than having the surname Morales. You could take the other person’s original name or pick a totally new one (combining your names into a portmanteau, picking an ancestor’s surname, or a word or name that’s meaningful to both of you).
I don’t pronounce Mor@les as rhyming with Alice. It is a Spanish surname and would be pronounced Moh-RAH-layss. But I get that most Americans would likely say More-Alice. However, I think it’s possible to say no, my name isn’t Alice More-Alice. It’s Alice Moh-RAH-layss.
I also agree with the option of using your surname. My husband has a one syllable last name that has ruined a lot of my favorite short first name options. It should not be so! Also, I put in a vote for Allison. So what if your husband has a cousin with that name? If you love it, use it! Clearly she’s already successfully navigated through life with the name Allison Mor@les.
You could also use Alice as a nickname with a full given first name being either Allison or Alessandra or Alessia or Alyssa. That way she could go by Alice, but not ever have to introduce herself as Alice More-Alice. Hi, I’m Alessandra More-alice. I go by Alice/Aless.
I would also suggest:
Alex/Alexandra
Catherine Alice
Ellen
Ellison
Annalice/Anneliese (sort of a smoosh of Anna & Alice)
This is very good advice! The other option .. which might never ever work, since so many people will default to the “More Alice” pronunciation and because you may well use the “More Alice” pronunciation in your family, is to insist on the Spanish pronunciation of Morales. When I use the Spanish “a” and “e” it is Mo-RAH-les and the last two vowels do not rhyme with Alice.
I like the advice to start as if you already have an Alice, but a few international variants you’ve probably already considered:
Ailis (I think you could get away with spelling it Ailish so the spelling is clearer)
Alíz
Alida/Aleida
Alisa
Adelheid / Adelaide (! Adelaide gives me the old-fashioned feeling of Alice)
Alix (traditionally pronounced Ah-LEEKS, not Alex)
Very best of luck. I see why you love Alice.
I didn’t hear the rhyme either when I first read this… More like Mor-Rah-les than More-Alice. So to me Alice sounded fine. So I guess it depends on how you pronounce your last name.
I think as an adopted child the shared family last name is uber important. So switching the last name doesn’t make sense to me. It is like giving her a new tribe, a sense of belonging. Don’t rob her of her tribe.
So either stick with Alice and know that she may take her future husband’s last name just as you appear to have. (Which is great too!) And/or look for new names to love. A nickname has all the same problems of the name without the satisfaction of it being her legal name. I like the Alice Jane -> AJ idea or a similar name like Emily or Beth or Ella.
Best of luck!
The proposal is for all three of them to use the other parent’s surname, not just the child.
Or what about Celia ..it is like an anagram of Alice? Celia Morales.
From someone who’s hypothetical boy baby was named Jack for years, I’d say it’s best to find a new name. Our last name is Potts, and we’d never said the full name out loud until I was pregnant.
As an Alix who has gotten mistaken for Alice her entire life and briefly considered just changing her name – Might I interest you in Alexandra/Alessandra/one of the other thousand Alex names?
Alix Morales is slightly different and doesn’t give me as much of a Betty Spaghetti/Amelia Bedelia vibe. I kind of can see Alice Morales working but I think it only works because I don’t pronounce Morales like More-Alice with that emphasis.
The last line you wrote was like a gut punch that brought tears to my eyes. Or more like an expert twist in the ending of a movie. All of a sudden you find out the baby Alice she’s been cooing to in all those hazy flashbacks, well that’s not her daughter and those weren’t flashbacks! Those were actually flash FORWARDS and that is her granddaughter Alice. Cue ugly cry.
I don’t often disagree with Swistle! But in this case I think I do. Call her Alice! The singsongy-ness of this name is one that I find charming (I don’t always, but here I don’t mind it) and the -lice/-les endings are visually distinct. Heart-soaring love and family ties go such a long long way and for whatever reason I think the idea of Alice more-Alice in this case is so endearing. Alice! More Alice! So much Alice! What a big amount of love for that little girl, you know? Give her a middle name that sounds lovely alongside Alice for when you introduce her or that she can choose to use when she’s older, but when I say “this name is ridiculous” that is the beginning of a sentence that ends with “and it is filled with so much joy and whimsy and it makes the world a happier place and I love it”, not one that ends with “and these parents are bananas”.
I second the Alexandra suggestion, but the Greek version, Alessandra. Alessandra Morales sounds beautiful, when she is being introduced, or called in class, or in any formal situation; but the obvious nickname is Alice.
Now I don’t know how you feel about nickname names but what about Abbie? It’s a name that people have consistently worn for years and whilst it’s not totally in the clear Abbie Morales is defintely less rhymey.
I don’t have a strong opinion on Alice Morales, but I do know what its like to feel a beloved name is unuseable. My husband was assaulted by a Jerry, so I cannot name a child after my grandma Gerry. I’m a bit wistful over this, but at least I got to name my boy another name I really like.