Baby Boy or Girl Smith

Hi there,

My husband and I have a looming due date (May 29) and we’re at an impasse with girls names! We’re not finding out the gender of our forthcoming little one and have decided that if we have a boy, he’ll be John Owen (and we’ll call him Owen).

Our last name is Smith, so we are somewhat limited to choosing names that don’t end in ‘s’ as we both feel that we don’t want the first and last names running together. Sad though, because that eliminates some of the names we like.

That said, we’re on pretty opposite ends of the spectrum with names that we like. My husband like liquid letters and Norwegian-inspired names. Here are some he’s rooting for:

Karen (pronounced Car-en)
Kiersten
Lilly/Lillian
Ellie/Elle
Ellen
Emma
Sophia

I, on the other hand, tend toward more of the classic grandmother names. I’m pretty wary of overly popular names as well. On the top of my list are:

Edith (not doable with the last name), but with the nickname “Edie”
Eliza/Liza
Evelyn/Everly (nickname “Evie”)
Mae (after my grandmother)
Maeve (love this Irish name as we spent our first year of marriage living there)
Eva/Ava/Aoife (prounced like “Ava” but with an “f” sound instead of a “v”, also Irish)
Frances
Louise
Herriot (for a middle name perhaps)
Rosalyn
Liesel
Miriam
Greer

Where we overlap:

Hannah – I like, but don’t love
Piper – same as above
Lane/Laney – doesn’t feel like the one, but I like
Eve (pronounced to rhyme with Bev)*
Joules

*Eve seems to be our most viable options at this point because we both like it. I just don’t want to have the name be mispronounced as Eve (rhyming with Steve) and my husband doesn’t like any of the longer forms of a name that would be shortened to produce the nickname.

So, gosh, we’d love some outside perspective and any feedback you’re able to give!

Thanks kindly,
Cory Smith

 

The name “John Smith” is a very bold choice. (For those of you thinking, “But…!”: those are exactly the things that make it a bold choice.) Is John a family name? Why are you planning to call him by his middle name? That sort of thing can help us get a handle on your overall naming preferences and priorities, even though you aren’t asking for help with a boy name.

In the U.S. English language, the correct/standard pronunciation of the name Eve is the one that rhymes with Steve. The level of hassle you would encounter to get it pronounced to rhyme with Bev would be significant and lifelong. The information we’re missing here is your reason for wanting the name pronounced differently. For example, is it a namesake name, or a name from another country/language where it is pronounced like Ev? In the U.S., if you want it to rhyme with Bev, I would strongly suggest spelling it Ev: it’s an existing name with the pronunciation you prefer. If you spell it Eve, I think you will have to reframe the situation in your mind: if you think of people as mispronouncing it when they use the usual pronunciation, I think you will quickly lose your minds with frustration. To save your sanity, you will need to accept that the pronunciation you prefer is the one that would be considered a mispronunciation in U.S. English, and let that infuse your standard explanation with patient, cheerful understanding: “Oh, actually it’s pronounced Ev. She’s named for my Irish grandmother, and that’s how it’s pronounced there”—or whatever the reason is.

Along the same lines, the pronunciation KARE-en is so common and widespread in the U.S., and there are so very many Karens (the name was Top 100 from 1938 until 1986), I think trying to get people to pronounce it CAR-en would be exhausting. I am not sure what spelling to recommend for the pronunciation you’d prefer. Karren? No, that looks like a typo. Carren? Hm. Carin? Maybe, but that seems more like a spelling of Corinne. None of those seem ideal to me. Perhaps commenters will have some suggestions. (I would suggest the name Corinne, but it’s so similar to Cory. For that matter, so is Karen-pronounced-CAR-en.)

You have lived in Ireland for a year and so I think it’s best if I assume you have better information than I do about this, but I want to raise the point as one that may need more investigation: I was pretty sure Aoife was not pronounced like Ava-with-an-f, but instead like Eva-with-an-f: EE-fa. My daughter is acquainted with an Aoife whose parents’ families are both from Ireland, and they pronounce it EE-fa. My working theory about the possible explanation for this is that the long-E/long-A sound is not quite a direct translation from Irish, and so some people fall to more of an E-sound and others to more of an A-sound.

The spellings Herriot and Joules catch my eye in a list of traditionally-spelled options. Unless you have specific reasons for the alternate spellings, I suggest using the standard Harriet/Jules. I think the name Harriet Smith is terrific.

From your joint list, my top choices are Piper and Lane/Laney. Lane Smith seems like a dashing and unusual choice, while still being easy to spell and pronounce. I might instead consider the spelling Laine, with the nickname Lainey. According to the Social Security Administration, the spelling Lane was given to 1,224 new baby boys and 85 new baby girls in 2016; the spelling Laine was given to 30 new baby boys and 92 new baby girls in 2016. (The name Piper was used nearly exclusively for girls.)

A similar option is Delaney, used for 9 new baby boys and 1,198 new baby girls in 2016.

Or I wonder if you’d like Elaine with the nickname Lainey? It’s a grandmother name, and very similar to Ellen and Lillian from your husband’s list.

The name Hannah may be more popular throughout the population than you’d prefer: it is only recently out of a dozen years in the Top 10.

From your husband’s list, my favorite is Ellen. It’s currently uncommon (#655 in 2016) but has the fashionable Ell- sound.

With the surname Smith, I am more than usual on the side of staying away from popular names. Emma and Sophia are both in the Top 10 as of 2016; Emma has been there since 2002 and Sophia since 2006. Kiersten is much less common (not even in the Top 1000 as of 2016), but is more Mom Name than Grandmother Name.

From your list, my favorites are Eliza, Mae, Rosalyn, and Miriam.

It seems as if the two of you are so close with his Ellie/Elle/Ellen/Emma and your Eliza/Evelyn/Eva. Your husband doesn’t like any of the Ev- names, but I would explore further in the Em- and El- categories. Elodie? Emmeline? Elena? Eleni? Eleanor? Elianna? And have you already tried your husband on Evelina, pronounced ev-ah-LEEN-nah? It’s similar to several of his choices, and gives you the Ev. Evelina Smith.

Or I wonder if you two would like Genevieve? It has the Ev/Eve/Ava/Eva type of sounds, but it’s less common. Or Geneva? or Vienna?

42 thoughts on “Baby Boy or Girl Smith

  1. Sargjo

    I love Lane too! I also love Louise. I feel like there’s additional common ground bridging Louise and Lillian from your lists. I love the nickname Lou-maybe there’s a longer form you’d both like. Also, the Scandinavian name Liv is a petite name like Ev/e with a great meaning.

    Also, Eavan (Aoibhann) is a sweet name that leads to Evie but has a sort of KARen sparseness if that appeals to your husband. Good luck!

    Reply
  2. Hazel

    Harriet Smith seemed familiar and then I remembered that’s a character in Jane Austen’s Emma.

    Eve pronounced Ev is a lost battle I think. I personally pronounce Karen as Kar-in but I’m in the UK.

    Reply
  3. Brooke

    I also know an Aoife with Irish parents who pronounces it EE-fa. Laine/Lane Smith sounds so fresh and sophisticated and I am a big fan of Harriet as well.

    Reply
  4. Salome Ellen

    I have known a Karin pronounced CAR-in. Likely it would not sound very different from CAR-en, since they both trend toward the “schwa” sound (represented in dictionaries by an upside down e.) And the alternative spelling cues people to ask rather than assume pronunciation. Although I ought to be in favor of my own name, Ellen Smith sounds awfully bland to me. If the vote were up to me, I favor Evelina.

    Reply
  5. SurnameNamer

    Eve pronounced “Ev” made me think of Neve (like the actress).

    If you’re open to nicknames, why not a name to get to Ev as a nickname?
    Everett/Everytt, Everly, etc?

    Good luck!

    Reply
    1. Annie

      Evelyn nn Ev seems perfect! It is rising in popularity but that is likely because of the grandma-revival trend the OP likes :)

      Reply
  6. Cameron

    As usual, Swistle is ON IT.

    I was going to suggest my daughter’s name, Eleanor/Ellie. Very grandmothery with a modern nickname.

    Reply
  7. Cece

    Aoife is definitely Ee-fa and I’ve never heard any variation. And I do agree with Swistle on Eve – it’s going to be hard to make an ‘Ev’ sound work – unless it’s short for Evelyn pronounced that way.

    As a kind of cross between Aoife and Kiersten, how about Aisling? Pronounced Ash-lyn or Ash-ling.

    Reply
  8. Kerry

    Maeve strikes me as being very similar to Ev.

    Or, if you like Greer and he likes Norwegian names, what about Grete? Or could Edie be a nickname for Edda or Edina? Although I kind of get the feeling that you might explicitly want a non-Norwegian name.

    Reply
  9. Erin Beth

    I love Miriam, Frances, and Ellen best of your choices. A few other ideas:

    Freya
    Frieda
    Astrid
    Ingrid
    Inga
    Greta
    Gemma
    Rosalind
    Adele

    Reply
  10. Andrea

    Linnaea. It is scandinavian, longer and prettier, sounds like a name with history, and Naya is a pretty nickname. Houston, we have a winner!

    Also, I have daughters named Harriet and Miriam. Here are the rest of my girls in case our tastes overlap anywhere else: Emeline, Clover, Annabel.

    Reply
    1. Andrea

      Oh, I forgot to say that my Harriet is Harriet Franceszka (family spelling) so we call her Harriet Frances all the time. It is the prettiest name to say out loud! Harriet Frances, finish your supper!! I love it.

      Reply
      1. Andrea

        I also forgot to say (though I fear you will think I am making it up–I am not) that I have a son named Oskar John, who we call Oskar John a lot of the time. John is always a solid choice for a boy. Very handsome, very manly. I have two other sons. One is named Cowen. We spelled it that way so we could say “Owen with a C” to help people remember, although I wanted to spell it Cowan like the last name of the Louis L’Amour character, and I still regret that I did not. My other son is Eli. Clearly, our tastes are quite similar.

        Reply
  11. Jean C.

    I wonder if Louellen or Louella/Luella would work? I knew a Luella in college and it was a lovely name on a kind girl. I also feel like Helene could maybe overlap your taste and your husband’s.

    Reply
  12. Jd

    While your tastes seem simpler, I’m going to suggest Evangeline. Gets you to Ev or Evan as a nickname. It’s one of my favorite names and it wears well
    Also Carina. Usually pronounced Car- e-na. The sound you like from Car-in without the pronunciation problems. It’s a really pretty name. Carina Smith

    Reply
  13. The Mrs.

    Kharin perhaps for the ‘car’ sound to be easier for the US populous to accept?

    I knew a girl in middle school who was a Carin. She was forever annoyed that her name was mispronounced 100% of the time. “No, no! CAR-in! Like park the CAR IN the garage!” Poor girl. Beautiful name, wrong culture.

    Carys might be a lovely compromise.

    Dev might, too. Full name of Devony. It’s Irish for ‘dark haired’. Devony Smith. Memorable and posh.

    Best wishes!!

    Reply
  14. Maree

    I used to work with a woman named Ewa. She had Polish heritage and it was pronounced similar to Ev- uh. That would shorten nicely to Ev and the spelling signals that it isn’t Ee-v. Downside is that on sight it looks like it should be pronounced Ewer and IMO is a bit clunky.

    I also know a little girl Ena (with a short E).

    Reply
  15. L

    Swistle is right about the corrrct pronunciation of Aoife. In the Irish language, “aoi” is always pronounced like the English “ee” so the name is pronounced Ee-fa if you use an English phoenetic representation. (Think of Saoirse Ronan – seer-sha – if it helps).
    “Ao” may be pronounced like “ay” or “ee” but “aoi” is always “ee”. Hope this helps!

    Very interesting question and ideas so far!

    Reply
  16. Nine

    I love the suggestion of Neve (pronounced like the actress’ name) but you could spell it Nev. Close enough to Ev? If you need a longer name, I’m going out on a limb with Nevicata, it’s Italian for snowfall. I’m partial to nouns as names, so this might not be to your taste, and definitely doesn’t fit in the grandma name category.

    I also like Devony and Devany as options to get to Dev. Or Delaney to get to Lane / Laney.

    Swistle’s suggestion of Genevieve gives you a lot of options for nicknames – Gen, Nev, Vee, Veevie, Evie

    Reply
  17. Layne

    Just chiming in because my name is Layne (pronounced like Lane). I was named after a male Lane, so my parents added the Y to make it more feminine looking. I think it works great with Smith. I have loved the name ever since I was a kid and I feel like it has grown up with me well (I’m 34 now). My parents called me Laynie-Loo as a pet name growing up, but I correct anyone who calls me Laynie because it feels very childish to me. Hope my perspective helps!

    Reply
  18. Gabrielle

    I know someone who spelled the name Caryn. She said that although she still sometimes received the Karen pronunciation, the spelling was different enough that more people paused to ask how to say it.

    Reply
    1. Elisabeth

      I don’t know any Car-ins but lots of Care-ins with different spellings. Carin, Karyn, Karren, and Karen.

      Reply
  19. Borealis

    My sister’s name is pronounced “Car-in,” after a Norwegian great aunt, and we spell it Karin. Of course it gets confused with the standard American pronunciation of Karen quite a lot, and I know her spelling is an accepted variant. It clearly can be a bit of a hassle, but it’s a lovely name, most people get it eventually, and I don’t think she’d want to change it. She did have one teacher in school who never ever got it right, and some people eventually get the vowels right but put the stress on the second syllable so…this would definitely be a thing you’d have to plan on managing. I think if I were trying to respell it to get the correct results I’d go with Carrin.

    In other news, I rather latched onto Mary Adelle called Adelle as a sibling to John Owen. I’m not sure it’s what you’re looking for, but I like it. And I seem to be really enjoying coming up with pairs like this so: Sally Adelle, Mary Elena, Ivy Elise, or Lilly Eliza.

    Reply
  20. Stephanie

    From your letter it seems like proper pronunciation is high on your list of importance so just based on that, I would choose a name that does not have issues with that.

    Suggestions for names:
    Beverly (nickname Ev)
    Julia (nickname Joules or Jules)
    Elena
    Miriam
    Mara

    You could also use first and middle initials to get the nickname Ev. So, for example, Ella Violet, nicknamed Ev.

    Reply
  21. Liz

    I’m dittoing many names here but want to boost my own great aunties and grandmothers:

    Evelyn, nn Evie (EV ee), gives you the Ev you like.
    Estelle, nn Estie
    Sylvia
    Hilda
    Devorah, nn Devy, rhymes with Evie, above.
    Marielle, nn Ellie
    Zelda (no nn, but Zellie would work)

    Reply
    1. Elisabeth

      My female elders are/were Edith, Margaret, Elisabeth, Sally Jane, Carol, Sarah, Frances, Joanne, Priscilla, Virginia, and Gerald. Yes, Gerald. Sometimes, I wonder what my great-grandpa was smoking.

      Reply
  22. Eva

    Eleanor nn Nell/Elle/Ellie is so perfect. The chances of you getting anyone to pronounce Eve as “EV” are slim to none (at least in the US). I definitely would do Evelyn with nn Evie/Ev.

    My top recommendation not previously mentioned is Corinna. I think it would really appeal to both of you.

    Other options
    Gwendolen (Gwen)
    Vivian nn Vivie
    Margaret/Marguerite nn Greta, May
    Alexandrine/Alexandrina nn Zanna
    Elena
    Vianne
    Mabel (nn Mae)
    Louisa (nn Lou, Lulu)
    Martha
    Maren / Marina

    Reply
  23. Anna B

    Carlin like George Carlin is a friend’s name I’ve enjoyed hearing and gets the car-in pronunciation with an extra consonant.

    Reply
  24. Vesna

    Seconding Evangeline nn Ev.
    Adding Evora nn Ev.
    Basically, I would go through the naming dictionary / BabyNameWizard.com and pull up all names starting with Ev- or that have their emphasis on an -ev- syllable, and go from there.
    Hope we’ll get an update :)

    Reply
  25. Jeanette

    Helena, Emilia (Eh-MILL-ee-uh), Niamh, Elise, and Evanna are all ones I would suggest for you. Also, i would spell the nickname Evie as Evvy just to make sure it’s more likely to be pronounced EH.

    Reply
    1. Carrie

      Seconding Helena. If my team green, now 3-year-old son had been a girl, he would have been Helena, nicknamed Lane/Laney/Lena. Instead, he is Harvey.

      Also throwing my support behind Edith, because I have a brand-new, one-week-old team green girl, Edith “Edie” Helen! :)

      (We didn’t go with Helena for our daughter because I didn’t want to start an “H” theme… just in case.)

      Reply
  26. Vanessa

    I forget if this name was offered yet, but Karine is a name I’ve heard a lot. Pronounced CAR-een. It’s quite pretty.

    Reply
  27. Kay W.

    Oh, but I like Edith with your surname. Edith Smith! It’s bold, memorable, solid, feminine. Yes, the endings repeat but the name actually seems better for it. Subtly alliterative and very memorable.

    In terms of the pronunciation issues, I echo everyone else. You’re on the verge of creating some lifelong headaches for yourselves and your daughter. If you really want “Eve” pronounced Ev, going for Evangeline or Evelyn and using Ev as a nickname would be wisest.

    For what it’s worth, I find Ev Smith quite hard to say and feels sort of anonymous and insubstantial (sorry!). Whereas Eve Smith (said the normal way) is lovely.

    However I still think Edith Smith is the loveliest. :-)

    Reply
  28. Kay W.

    Oh also!

    Embla

    Do you like it? It’s a Norwegian name, the Nordic equivalent to Eve in folklore. I know a toddler Embla with a Norwegian who wears it very well. Very easy to pronounce too.

    Reply
  29. Steph Lovelady

    Emma and Sophia are on your husband’s list but have the old-fashioned feel you like but I’m guessing you’re ruling them out because of popularity. Ellen has that feel, too, though, and unlike the previous too, it’s not currently popular. I liked Swistle’s suggestion of Genevieve.

    Reply
  30. Julia

    my sister in law goes by Ev – no “e” on the end. Her full name is Evaleen which would bring in the Irish.

    Reply
  31. L.

    I grew up as a Smith and had a friend named John Smith who was frequently teased about Pocahontas. If you pick a super common first name with Smith, you kid very well may share a first and last name with others at various points in her life (there were 3 of me in my university directory, for example). Check on facebook to get a feel for how common your first and last combo is. I found it super annoying and was glad to get a much less common new surname when I got married.

    Reply

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