Hi, Swistle.

I’m the second wife to a wonderful guy who brought two great kids, a boy and a girl, to our family. I’m due in May with our third child. Our family’s last name is P0ll@rd. Both children have four-letter first names, they are D@ne Ev@n and Nol@ Vie (pronounced “Vee”).

We would like to continue the four letter name pattern, if possible. We like names that are uncommon and interesting (subjective, I know). If this baby is a boy, we are currently loving Joss, a name we chose before we were even pregnant. We are satisfied and happy with that option for a boy. For reference, I also love Nash and and we both also like Jace, Jude and Zaid.

Girls’ names are harder because most of the names we tend to love are not four letters long. Names we both like but I wouldn’t say we love are Dare (I wouldn’t use it as a first name; it’s probably too much), Esme and Vada. I also like Zara, Ever and Beau.

The middle name of either a boy or girl will be an honor name from my family. We have the following names to choose from: George, James, Cindy, Lou and Lucine. I’m 100% okay using Lou, George and James in the middle name spot for either a boy or a girl. I’m also okay with playing around with those names (turning George into Georgia, for example), as long as there is a clear tie to the honor name.

We would really appreciate you and your readers’ help in coming up with more girls names to choose from. As you can probably see, we are happy to go outside of traditional names to find the right one. I really think this baby is a girl (like, really, REALLY think she’s a girl), and it’s driving me crazy not to even have one name we feel like is a real contender.

Thank you all so much for your help!

P.S. I promise you a baby name update with a photo. I’m a photographer, so I’ll make it a really good picture!

My inclination is to suggest ditching the four-letter idea. It’s ruling out such an enormous number of names.

On the other hand, I see the appeal. Well. My first suggestion, then, is to make a list of all the names you love, without regard to number of letters. Then, use that list to help you brainstorm four-letter options.

For example, let’s say you told me your list of non-four-letter names included Rosemary. We could use those sounds and letters to find suggestions such as Rose, Rosa, Mary or Mari or Mara, maybe Rory or Ruby or Zara or Zora. But I might also see it as a plant name and suggest Fern or Iris, or it might make me think of old-fashioned names and I’d suggest Opal or June or Lois or Avis.

Another option is to link this name with the other names in a different way. For example, if the baby is a girl, perhaps she could share an initial with her sister. Perhaps your family’s themes could be “four-letter boy names, and girl names starting with N.”

If you can’t find any four-letter names you like, maybe it would work to have a longer name with a four-letter nickname.

At some point in this process (around the point where you start to feel panicky or despairing, or when you’re down to the final few weeks), even though I see the appeal of finding a name with four letters, I would suggest you consider if the cost is worth it. For example, if you would LOVE to name a daughter Marigold, and that name would make you feel happy in every way, is it worth giving up that name to meet the preference for a number of letters? The way I’m phrasing that question may imply that I think the answer should be “No,” but I am intending it to be neutral: IS it worth it to you? If so, then I think you will be happy paying that fee: you will put the names you prefer on the counter, and use them to pay for a four-letter name you like less but find satisfying for its number of letters. (People choosing honor names over names of their own style make a similar purchase.) If not, asking the question may make it clear to you that the cost is too high.

Or it might be that the only four-letter names you like are ones that don’t meet your preference for an unusual/interesting name. Again, it’s a question of value: is that worth it to you, to give up that preference in order to find a name with four letters?

There is also the question of future children. After just two children, there isn’t yet a pattern to break: the matching number of letters can be considered a coincidence. After a third child, there’s a clearer pattern, and I’d be exponentially more reluctant to break it.

All right, now the fun part: finding some four-letter names to think about!

Anya
Aria
Ayla
Bryn
Cora
Faye
Fern
Grey
Ione
Isla
June
Kaye
Kaya
Kyla
Lane
Lark
Lois
Luca
Luna
Mila
Mina
Remi
Rory
Ruby
Ruth
Thea
Zora

Name update!

Hi Swistle! It’s almost 2am and I’m awake in my hospital bed with our brand new baby. I wanted to get you a name update ASAP!

Not long after I wrote, we found out that our new baby would definitively be a boy! We welcomed our sweet son, Joss Wilder George P0ll@rd yesterday.

Joss was a name we chose for a boy before we were ever pregnant. We loved that Joss seemed like it could be the name of any number of very different, but all very interesting, type of people. Wilder was a name I found while pregnant that caught my interest. Plus, this little boy was a furious ball of activity in utero 24-7, so it seemed very fitting and a fun detail to share with him later about his earliest personality trait. George honors my grandfather, one of the greatest men I’ve known.

We love his name so much! Thank you to your readers for all of their wonderful ideas and feedback! I loved reading through all of the suggestions and comments. You’re all extremely generous with your ideas and support. xo

Hi Swistle,

We are expecting our third daughter in December. Our last name is Loop. It creates some challenges in choosing a first name. We want to stick with something more traditional and familiar since our last name is so unique. We don’t want anything that adds to the quirkiness of our last name.

Our girls names are Emma Rielle and Audrey Corinne. We love the idea of finding another two syllable first name.

We think we have settled on Brigitte for a middle name. It’s French (my family background) like our daughters middle names and has a double consonant as well.

We’d also love to find a name that begins with a vowel like the other girls but want the baby to have her own unique initial. I love Isla but it sounds too strange with our last name….Isla Loop. We don’t like the plant reference of Ivy or the rigidity of Ingrid or Irene. We can’t seem to find anything that begins with an O or U that we like.

Other names we have considered that don’t start with a vowel are Norah, Hannah and Charlotte. We’ve even considered one syllable names such as Kate, Claire and Beth. Isabella is also beautiful but we dislike the nick names Bella and Izzy.

None of them seem like her name and I’m beginning to worry we won’t have one when she arrives.

We’d love to hear your name suggestions!

Melanie Loop

If you and I were sitting in my office in a skyscraper downtown, and the handsome secretary had just brought us coffee and cookies (I’m imagining a Pepperidge Farm assortment), and now we were getting down to business, the first thing I would try to do is find out which preferences are truly important to you, and which we could consider ditching.

Right now your naming search looks to me like a math equation that can’t be solved: “We’d love a vowel name, but we don’t want another A or E, and we don’t like / can’t use any of the I, O, or U names.” This is exactly the point at which I’d be inclined to give up the quest for a vowel name, particularly because you’d prefer traditional and familiar names, so it’s not likely you’re going to want to toy with Iolanthe and Orinthia. And then there’s the surname issue, AND the preference for two syllables, AND a preference for a double-consonant middle name. I would ply you with another Milano and suggest we start over.

You may already know that I am a big fan of sibling-name coordination. In fact, my first two children have names that are so well-coordinated, on so many levels (syllables, styles of firsts, styles of middles, number of letters, equivalent honor names—everything) that it made it very difficult to choose names for the next babies. I am very glad at this point that we did manage to break away from the patterns. At this point, no one is saying, “Wait…but the first two names both have characteristics X, Y, and Z; why don’t the other names match?”

All of this means that I am both 100% on your side (for example, thinking “Ooo, AND it has the double-consonants!”) and ALSO fully ready to talk you down if necessary (my first two are in high school now, and it doesn’t matter to me anymore how many syllables their names have).

I think there are two different paths I might suggest from here. One is to take away ALL the preferences, and start virtually from scratch. Pretend it doesn’t matter what letter the name starts with, or how many syllables it has. See what that kind of freedom feels like, and what kind of list the two of you come up with when you’re not putting the candidates through a series of filters.

The second possible path is to rank the preferences rather than ditching them, with the understanding that not all of them can be used. For example, which preference is more important to each of you: a vowel name, or a unique initial? Which is more important: number of syllables, or a unique initial? And so on. Which preferences would you be willing to give up, in exchange for fulfilling another preference? It would be interesting to see if your answers are the same on this, or different.

For example, you might decide that using another vowel name was more important than having unique initials. Unique initials was another of my own preferences when I was naming babies, and it hasn’t been something that I’ve enjoyed as much/often as anticipated. It IS fun getting them initial Christmas ornaments, I’ll say that. But for everything else I was imagining (mostly labeling issues), it wouldn’t be much harder to write ER, AC, and EB.

I suggest ignoring the middle name until the first name has been chosen.

If I were just looking at the names Emma and Audrey Loop, and I were trying to think of a sister name for them, I might suggest:

Abigail
Catherine
Eleanor
Elizabeth
Eloise
Evelyn
Iris
Jocelyn
Julia
Madeline
Katherine
Molly
Natalie
Sabrina
Sarah
Sophie

I also would have included Charlotte and Isabel, but those are already on your list. I think Nora/Norah is another good option.

My favorite option is Iris. It satisfies a LOT of preferences. Iris Loop; Emma, Audrey, and Iris.

Name update!

Thank you to all of you for your comments and suggestions, they really helped us on our journey to finding the right name.

From the moment we met our new little girl, we knew what her name was going to be…our little math naming problem had been solved!

A vowel name with a unique initial was ultimately the most important factor for us. But, our two syllable predicament seemed to solve itself! Our first two daughters look completely different from one another; so we were surprised when our third daughter was a beautiful blend of the two of them. Since Emma and Audrey both have two syllable names, it seems perfect to us that our new baby girl has a four syllable one…..2+2=4!

Plus, we love that her name has 6 letters like Audrey’s and ends with an ‘a’ like Emma’s. Similarities to both her sisters!

Olivia Brigitte Loop was born on December 20th, 2015 and took our breaths away with 8 lbs 13 ounces of love and dreams.

Sincerely,
Melanie Loop

Hi Swistle!

I am so excited to be writing to you because I had my baby names picked out & was almost disappointed that I couldn’t ask for help.

I am expecting a baby (now babies!) in March, I did my quad screen and got a strange result–which turned out not to be so strange since there are two babies in there. (I was doing a lot of freaking out and crying.) I had a feeling about twins, but I assumed boy/girl. The technician said it looks like girl/girl to her (of course, they can make mistakes), but I don’t have two girls’ names!

Our last name is “Egan” with an L in the front.

The girl’s name we are using is Cora Jean.

The boy’s name we love is Robert Kyle (named after my father–who died a few years ago, and a close cousin who also passed away). When I said Robert and Cora together, it sounded like I knew them from somewhere–of course, they are from Downton Abbey! When we found out it was likely two girls, my husband looked up the Downton Abbey cast list to look for other names! :) We do like names of that era (I know they are back).

At the moment, we like the name Gwen. But we aren’t 100% sold. It would also be wonderful if I could somehow integrate my dad’s name (Robert) into the name (he would be thrilled). I’d also love to integrate a family name from his side. Family names for girls on my dad’s side are Ann and Margaret (there’s an Ann or a Margaret every generation–my middle name is Ann, I have an Aunt Margaret, my grandma was Ann, her mom was Margaret), so I think it would be cool to incorporate that. Another very meaningful family name for me is Debby.

I’m not sure if that’s too much information or just enough to be a fun challenge. So, Downton-era first names (or something of that ilk) and a family middle name (or first–we’re open). We don’t want the names to be too matchy-matchy (Cora and Clara) but also not from two completely different styles or eras (like Cora and Britney–that doesn’t work for me!).

I would appreciate any help you could give. What a day!

Thank you SO much,
Heather

I went right away to see the Downton Abbey characters list! Here are some pairings I really like (keeping in mind I haven’t seen the show, so might have chosen combinations that would be awkward to people thinking of the names in the context of the show):

Cora and Rose
Cora and Violet
Ivy and Cora

I especially like Cora and Rose. I like a little extra coordination with twin names, so in addition to liking the way the names go together in sound and style, I like that both are four letters and both have R and O. And yet they’re not overly matchy or cutesy.

More possible names to consider:

Fern
Louise
Eloise
Eliza
Esther
Beatrice
Agatha
Winifred
Josephine
Millicent
Harriet
Frances
Iris
June
Jane
Fiona
Ruby

There were so many others I liked but wasn’t sure about them with the surname: Alice, Delia, Dalia, Pearl, Lydia, Hope.

Are Cora and Jean family names? I’m wondering about balance: if Cora and Jean are names from your husband’s side, for example, that would make me lean toward using names from your side for the other baby; or if one name is from your side and one from your husband’s, that would make me inclined to do something similar for the other baby; or if neither Cora nor Jean are family names, that would make me lean away from filling the other baby’s name with family names.

I think I would advise starting from scratch. That is, Cora Jean may very well end up being the name of one of the girls, but naming two babies instead of one is enough of a shake-up to reconsider the whole thing. For example, it might be fun to use Ann for one and Margaret for the other, either as first or middle names. Honor names may need to be re-distributed to cover two girls instead of one, and it may be a good opportunity to honor both sides of the family at once. If Debby is a particularly important honor name, it becomes more significant which twin you give it to—or would you want to use it as a middle name for both twins? And there are all the fun twin-name possibilities to consider, such as swapped initials (CJ and JC, for example) or coordinated middle names (Rose and Violet, for example, or Jean and June).

I love Cora and Margaret together. Cora Ann and Margaret Jean would get them both into the Ann/Margaret tradition.

Would you like to have more babies after these two? If so, I might recommend saving the name Robert Kyle for a possible future boy, and not attempting to find a way to name one of these two girls after your father. If you’re stopping after these two, Roberta is the fastest namesake to spring to mind; I’d use it as a middle name, and would probably use it as an excuse for the nickname Bertie/Birdy. Robin would be another sweet choice; again, I’d use it as a middle. Bobbi might work, especially if your dad went by Bob. Bobbi and Debby might make a nice set of coordinated middle names.

Name update!

Hey Swistle!

Our girls arrived on 2/23. We are thrilled, sleep-deprived, and so in love.

We decided on Cora Jean (Jean is a family name on both sides) and Margaret Rose (Rose honors my dad Robert & she also shares it as a middle name with my stepbrother’s daughter–I like the connection it creates. We did check in with them first!)

Here they are:

Maggie on the left, Cora on the right. They are big for twins–15 lbs total! I can’t believe I carried them!

We still have a little Downton connection–can’t beat Dame Maggie Smith as the Dowager! :)

Thanks again to everyone for your help!
-Heather

Good Evening,
So recently my cousin mentioned your blog and how you help with coming up with names. I am at a total loss as to even where to begin. I have looked through countless names and well there are many names I like either my husband veto’s them or I feel they don’t go well with our other daughter’s name. We have a daughter already and her name is Rylah Mae Kielstra. It was a name that my 95 year old grandma gave me and I immediately fell in love with the name. It is unique but not yet so different that its hard to pronounce. I am finding it very hard to come up with another unique name that works with Rylah’s name. I can’t even give you one name that my husband and I both agree on. Our baby girl will be born this January so I still have time. I am thinking her middle name will be Kathryn as that is my mother’s middle name. The problem is a need a simpler first name as Kathryn Kielstra is already a mouth full. Would love some advice and help with a few names that you might think would work for our new addition.

Sincerely,
Heidi Kielstra

The name Rylah makes me think of two groups of names: the Ryan/Ryleigh/Kyle/Kylie group, and the Isla/Lila/Layla/Lyla/Mila/Ella group. It reminds me most of names such as Kayla and Kyla, which combine a strong long-vowel first syllable with a gentler feminine ending.

I would suggest doing that again: taking two sounds that are not normally paired but COULD be. Some of the combinations will be names that already exist and are common (Ev + lyn = Evelyn), some will be amusing mismatches or the wrong style, and some can be added to the Maybe list.

Or it might be easier to find a name that already exists, and change part of it, the way you could have started with Riley or Lilah or Kyla to get Rylah. Are there any names you already like, but feel are the wrong style or too common? For example, if you said you loved the name Emily but it didn’t coordinate with the style of Rylah, I might suggest Emlyn or Emryn or Ellery. Or if you loved Avery but it was too common, I might suggest Ayven or Averly or Avaleigh.

But check the Social Security Administration’s data base for name popularity: sometimes a combination of two appealing sounds can be exactly the sort of thing everyone else is also noticing and using. And check alternate spellings: for example, for the name Rylah I’d look for Rilah, Ryla, Rila, etc.

You could also poke around in that data base for seldom-used names. If you follow the link in the previous paragraph and then click on “Background Information” and then click on “Beyond the Top 1000,” you can download a list of all the names used at least five times each year. Starting at the rare end of the list, I found possibilities such as Zaryn, Tamlyn, Nolyn, Mavery, Graylynn, Emrie, Cambrey, Britlyn. (Again, check alternate spellings: sometimes I’d see a name and think, “Oh! That’s different!”—and then realize it was just a different way to spell a popular name.)

If you can, I’d wait to choose the middle name. That is, are there other candidates you could use (your mother’s first name, another relative’s name), if you finally find a name the two of you agree on and doesn’t work with Kathryn? When it is very challenging for two parents to find a name they agree on, I suggest removing as many limitations as possible.

Name update:

Thanks everyone for their wonderful suggestions! We decided on Brielle!