I was happy to be able to post a name update this morning. I don’t know about you, but I am feeling discouraged by the low percentage of name updates. I don’t know what the solution is. I used to email parents and ASK for the updates, but (1) that involves a fair amount of tracking due dates and writing emails, and (2) after not one but TWO very sad replies to such emails, I didn’t want to ask anymore. Imagine nagging a parent for something as trivial as a name update when that parent is grieving, and then that parent has to RESPOND to the nagging email. Let’s never do that again, was my feeling.
Well. I should post a question for us to answer but I don’t feel like it today: I’m restless, and overwhelmed with kid birthday-party stuff. Let’s just have a general baby-name discussion. Just, anything you want to say about baby names, go ahead and start it with a comment, and we can all skim through and see what we want to join in on. Probably we should not start a discussion where we trash other people’s name choices, but anything else we want to talk about.
I’ll go first. I recently had a fun discussion with my sister-in-law about what other middle names our babies could have had. I thought it would have been fun if my niece’s middle name had been my sister-in-law’s sister’s name, and I was also wondering what middle name they would have chosen for my nephew if they hadn’t decided to go with a naming tradition, and we discussed the possibilities for awhile. Then I mentioned a couple of whimsical middle names (Marigold, Fern, etc.) I would have liked to consider for Elizabeth if we hadn’t used Paul’s previous first-choice name (he was willing to switch to the new favorite, but couldn’t quite let go of his old favorite). And what middle names we might have used instead of honor names, if we’d decided against honor names.
We also talked about what other names the twins could have been. One combination I think would have worked well was John and Genevieve. I like that they have the same starting sound, but still have different initials. And although it can be hard to imagine children having different names, both names seem like possible fits. (Some, like Eric and Bianca, I really can’t picture.)
Here’s another possible topic. What are we going to do with all the names we start loving AFTER we’ve named all our babies? Will we have to start giant doll collections or something? I was thinking it might be fun to frame each name and make a collection on the wall; it would be easy to take down ones we no longer liked, and put up fresh ones. “Wow, are these all family members or something?,” a guest might ask. “No, no—just my favorite baby names,” we’d reply placidly.
What about names you’ve had to reject because of your last name? I took my husband’s name which sounds like “Sweeter” and this made me reconsider Alice (Alice Sweeter sounding a touch lispy to me) and Rose (is Rose Sweeter a perfume?). It doesn’t seem to mess up boy names as much!
I love the name Rose, and it’s no good with my surname either. So sad.
I love Rose too but have a niece named Rosie so have had to abandon that dream!
I always loved the name “Joel” but my married last name is “Cole” and that just wasn’t going to work. :(
My maiden name is Cole, and my mom had always loved the name Nicole, but couldn’t give it to me!
I love Hannah but married name is hallet!
I know a Nicole Cole! Born with that name, too, not a married name. I also know a Baileigh Bailey (due to adoption by stepparent)
Our last name has a substantial s sound in the middle, so any first name with a significant s sound comes out pretty hissy. It also starts with a B, which eliminates Caleb, one of my longstanding favourite boy names. And it ends in -y, which eliminates most names ending in an -ee sound as I don’t usually care for rhyminess.
This is going to sound very vain…but despite being married for 2.5 years now, I have been dragging my feet on changing my last name simply because I just don’t like the sound of my husband’s. (Yes I know I could hyphenate, etc…but I also feel like that is just as clunky. Or keep my maiden name, but I do like the unity of a family name) Thus I will eventually become a Polke.
I dislike it because I feel I am suffering a terrible demotion after having a 4-syllable maiden name (8 syllables in my entire name) to just one measley syllable now.
It makes things seem so choppy instead of nice and flowing.
Also it just gets stuck in my throat with all those heavy consonants…poooolllllkkkk.
Some of the names I’ve had to cross of my list include Callum and Callandra (Callie). Although I’d only ever use one or the other, not both…I certainly would not bestow on my child a name that could be Cal Polke = cow poke.
I hear ya. My partner’s surname is Hettinga, which is Dutch. I hate his surname. It sounds to me like someone reached into a bag of alphabet magnets, threw them at the fridge, and they just happened to land in that weird order. HETTINGA. And to make it worse, when pronounced the Dutch way, the G sounds like someone’s coughing up a hairball… a very harsh H sound.
I’m Canadian, my surname is Smart. Since it’s a word that is an adjective, so it isn’t very conducive to making it a middle name, either for me or for any future children. Which is sad for me!
His Dutch heritage along with the sound of his surname has eliminated a lot of baby names for us too. No names that have a G or a J in them because they’re pronounced differently in Dutch and English. No Ch’s or Th’s because the Dutch don’t really know what to do with those sounds. Goodbye to the idea of a daughter named Georgia! (Picture it: it would become Hhhhhhh-orgia. SO UGLY). No son named Julian (it would be Yulian!) Le sigh.
I’ve been married for two years now and didn’t change my last name because and when we have kids we are going to use both last names. Yes it will be a very long name for the child but he/she will know that two families became a happy one.
Yes, I do plan on having my last name as their second middle.
Rosemary. :'(
My husband’s last name (and our kid’s name) is Castaned@. Any girl name ending in an “ee a” sound seems too singsongy to me, especially if the name ends in “ee (consonant) a”. Good bye Nina! Mina!
I’ve rejected Calvin as a boy name because our last name sounds like Klein. Didn’t need a Calvin Klein.
Last name Cook. So many word names are out like August Cook or Olive Cook. We all can’t use Mae/May as a middle because then the name sounds like a question. Violet May Cook?
Our last name starts with “G” and if we have a girl I want to use Irene for her middle name, after my nana. With middle and last initials, we have to be careful with the first name not to spell something unappealing: _.I.G….! I’m not in love with a lot of “B” names for girls, but I’m sad to give up on Cecily in particular.
Luckily this is all hypothetical and we’ll probably have another boy (only 1 girl out of 5 cousins on hubby’s side, and 10 boys on mine).
I love the name Rose, too (and Violet and Fern) but my last name is Brown and I can’t see her having her last name called first and being Brown, Rose or Brown, Violet or Brown, Fern all her life. Blech.
I ruled out Jillian as a possibility for a third child, should we have one and it was a girl. We have Catherine, who is often shortened to Kay, and Wyatt, who is often called Wy. I can imagine using Jilly as a nickname. Thus, Kay, Wy, Jilly. Or, as someone would inevitably hear, KY Jelly. My sometimes crude family would have too much fun…. :P
I had to let go of Ivy because our last name ends in -avy.
My long-time favourite boys name is March and me and my partner have decided he’ll take my surname when we marry. It’s Marks. March Marks. Nope!
Marks also rules out my other favourites for a boy: Cole and Grey. Grey Marks sounds like a grubby piece of washing. Sigh.
Ooh, I’ve got one! I’ve been hoping for a chance to ask about this without tying it to a particular baby-name question. Occasionally, when discussions arise about honor names, I find myself feeling like an alien just landing on Earth, and I would love to find out what exactly I’m missing.
Let me start with my premise, which is that instinctively I think an honor name only FEELS “pure” (i.e., a legitimate honor) if the parents choose it (1) specifically to honor a relative toward whom they have honorable feelings and (2) independent of any aesthetic feelings about it. E.g., “Herbert, after Uncle Herbert, because I loved him greatly and wish to honor him with a namesake great-nephew”: an honor name. “Olivia, because I love the name Olivia and it’s a vintage revival of the moment…and how wonderful, my mother-in-law’s middle name is Silvia, which shares the same end sound as Olivia!”: not an honor name.
I should note that when there are certain family traditions or cultural requirements at play, I understand that the rules are obviously different. I’m talking about those cases in which the parents just have personal stated PREFERENCES for honor names.
There are two scenarios that seem to arise a lot in baby-naming discussions:
Scenario #1: “We’re having a girl! We would love to honor my mother, who is a very beloved family member and would be so happy to have a namesake, but Mom’s name is Mildred and that won’t wear well on a 2015 baby. We are therefore going to call the baby Mia.”
Scenario #2: “We love honor names! We hunted through our family tree and found that one of my great-great-grandparents had a brother named Anderson. We love the name Anderson, so we’re going to use it!”
This question is genuine: How can either of the above be considered honor names? Does anyone feel truly honored by the reuse of an initial? (I don’t have grandchildren, so it’s entirely possible that I’d be warmed by the sentiment, but I don’t think so.) And where is the inherent appeal in reusing a name that comes from the family tree but that doesn’t spark a reminder of an important relationship (i.e., my Anderson example above)? If you’re hunting through the family tree to find names you like, is it really different from hunting through a baby book for names you like? Is it that parents feel more authentically entitled to use certain names if they have been used by others in the bloodline?
Someone, please help me understand! This is always the point at which I feel like I’ve fallen off the bus of understanding in reading baby-name letters (which I otherwise enjoy voraciously)!
I agree with you that some of the “random relative happened to have the name X so it’s a family name” can be a stretch, but I wanted to speak to the first-initial thing which is more-common in Jewish families. You aren’t supposed to name a baby after a living relative so Aunt Mildred may have a “namesake” who is Mia.
You did mention that you are speaking outside the scope of cultural requirements/norms, so in that case, if I were Mildred just sharing an M with Mia probably wouldn’t overwhelm me with warm sentiment (other than the general warm sentiment that comes with a new baby).
Yes! I was thinking specifically of the Jewish customs you mentioned–avoiding direct living namesakes and using initials instead were the specific examples I was trying to carve out.
With Mildred-turned-Mia, I was referring to those cases in which the parents have negative aesthetic feelings toward the name of a person about whom they otherwise feel warmly. And I recognize that in some of those cases, maybe the fact that they narrow their search to M names actually does reflect honor, in a way.
This brings up an interesting question about honor names for me. Are (non-Jewish) people more likely to want to name a baby after a living relative so the relative can appreciate the honor? Or does it feel safer to name a baby after a deceased relative so that person’s legacy is complete and they have no possibility of doing something embarrassing (or having a falling-out with the family)? I know some cities have rules about naming streets only after non-living people so there isn’t a chance of that person becoming a scandalous figure later.
I’m non-Jewish (non-religious entirely, actually) and I would be equally likely to use an honor name of a living or dead relative. There is no taboo whatsoever to me for using the name of a person who is still living, but if there were someone I loved very much who had already passed away and I wanted to honor them by naming my baby after them, I would probably do so. I do think it would be nice to use an honor name while the person being honored is still alive though. If I named a baby after my dad for example, I think my dad would be so touched to know that I had chosen to do that, and it would be really nice for him to be alive to enjoy the honor! But if he had passed by the time a baby was born, I would probably still want to honor him and still name the baby after him.
I like both ways, for different reasons. I like to use a living relative’s name because I like them to know it happened. But I like to use a deceased relative’s name for the memorial feeling, and because it seems to cause fewer problems with the living relatives.
I’ve been dying to ask this question, but didn’t feel it warranted its own email.
My grandmas name is Rheta. Spelled that way. I want to honor her as she’s never been honored fully (27 grandchildren and 9 greats…closest is Rhae for a middle and two Rachels). I want to use HER name, but I don’t love how it sounds with names we like.
Are there, if any, variations of Rheta/Rita that work that still give a full, complete honor to her? I’ve only thought of one, Marita, which I am sold on, but wonder if I’m missing others?!
Elizabeth, I can’t reply directly to your comment, but for honoring grandma Rheta:
What about Margarita? I know, I know, alcohol connotations, but you could spell it the Italian Margherita and reference the pizza instead :)
Or Carita. Diminutive of Cara, which means “beloved,” and I like the connection to your beloved grandma.
In your examples, I’d consider Mia a “nod” and Anderson a “family name,” but neither feels like an honor name to me.
I love family names even when they aren’t honor names, because it feels special—a tie to our heritage. And I’d be fine with, say, Milly instead of Mildred—though I’d be more likely to use Mildred’s surname as a middle instead.
Great point, about the “tie to our heritage” aspect of it. That works for me, generally (except, perhaps, when it’s something like “John, because it’s a family name”–if John was not a particularly close relative, then it’s hard for me to see that as directly honoring the family, since there must certainly be at least one John within each three-generation cluster of most English-speaking family trees. “John because John is classic and we love it” is a different story. For me, the rationale that’s used to “sell” the name always evokes the bulk of my reaction).
This is a topic that troubles me as well. I’m with you: in general I like honor names to be the actual name, and I like them to be the names of beloved people.
Family tree names seem good in their own way; I can see the “keeping a name going in a family” impulse, or searching the family tree just for inspiration. But I too think of them as different from, say, naming after a much-loved grandmother.
I find I don’t mind honor names I consider a HUGE reach (such as in your Olivia/Silvia example) if everyone involved REALIZES it’s a huge reach. But I am similarly baffled if everyone thinks Grandma will be hugely honored by a granddaughter given a name that shares a sound with her middle name.
I bet for some people, restricting the search to the family tree helps narrow the scope of choices and keep baby-naming from being overwhelming, particularly for something as marginally unimportant as a middle name. So in the case of a great-great-great uncle with the last name Anderson, it’s less of an honor name and more of a name-we-loved-that-comes-with-a-reason.
My husband and I have agreed to do this, and you hit the nail on the head. We don’t consider them honor names so much as names we like that happened to play a role in our heritage. And yes, picking names “on the tree” was a great way to narrow down the choices…because frankly we never would have agreed with the whole world of names at our disposal! And while we’re still narrowing things down, I imagine the built-in justification will be a huge perk when I have to explain my child’s name to anyone. “It’s an old family name” requires few follow up questions ;)
Asked above, but more appropriate here…
Is Marita a stretch of an honor name for Rita/Rheta?
If Marita reminds you of your grandma, and you love it, then I think that’s a great reason!
Perhaps Margarita or Margherita?
You can choose whichever name you like, and Marita is beautiful. However, I think Rheta is beautiful as well. You stated earlier that you felt she had “never been honored fully” so I would suggest you use Rheta in its original spelling as a first or middle name.
I agree, I love Rheta! The softer, breathier looking spelling, the family significance, the sound…and a little girl name Rheta would be so refreshing nowadays. My vote is to use Rheta in some capacity!
When we named our oldest daughter Lilla it wasn’t an honor name. I had always liked the way my mom’s, Lisa, signature looked so I wanted my little girl’s name to start with an L. She thought of it as an honor. She mentioned more than once that Lilla and Lisa both start with Li and end in a, so it was obviously close enough for her.
In contrast, if we ever have a boy we had talked about using a boy name that starts with R as a nod to my husband’s family. Both of his grandpa’s and one of his greats had the name Ralph. My husband’s name is Ross, after his mother’s maiden name. Since Ross was not named Ralph we didn’t feel like to honor his family that we would have to directly use the name Ralph. We also didn’t want to use his name because a second generation maiden name just felt odd. So we felt that anything starting with an R would be close enough. It isn’t really an honor name but it’s keeping in tradition with the family.
I also always liked the idea of using a name that ends in the ette sound as a nod to my maiden name, Pruitt, which isn’t useable as a first name.
These are definitely a stretch but they remind us of our families and their history which is really all we were really looking for.
my ASSUPTION (and you know what happens when you assume) is that people get a bit overwhelmed by naming a baby in these days when even the #1 most popular name is used for a fraction of the number of people that previously popular names were used (2.8% name Jennifer in 1984 vs 1.07% name Emma in 2015). There are just so many options and so many kre8tivity . So I think people look for anything make their choice seem “legitimate” and for something to help them choose/narrow down.
For most I think “honoring” someone is really just a jumping-off/inspiration point. With books touting 12039547698365129859761 names, by saying “we only want to use honor names” it feels a bit more focused.
On the topic of honour names. My husband and I decided before having babies not to use honour names. For me it completely was because I didn’t like the sounds of the names. My family’s names are more on the unusual side, and not coming back in style any time soon (Cornelis, Antonus, Petronella, Glenna, Rubiscia, Ferminta, Hortense, etc) and my husband’s family have very traditional names which is not a name family that I particularly like (David, Nancy, Ruth, Helen, James, Daniel, Judith, Andrew). So our honour compromise was to give our children Dutch middle names after my family (though not direct names of any relatives), since we agreed to give our children my husband’s last name (Grieve).
Which comes to another topic listed above. Last names that are also words. I agree with the previous poster – there are so many names that I would have loved to use, but because of the last name it’s a no-go. All first names that are words are out for me – Poppy was a favourite (I don’t like the look visually, even if the combo sounds good – looks like 2 words written and not a name). Also, any G names :( My favourites :( Grayson, Gwendolyn. I’m not a huge fan of alliteration.
Anyway, does anyone have any random naming traditions? I’m thinking about starting one. I really love double letters. Our son’s first name has double Ts. I think it would be fun for future kids to also have doubles of any letter.
While I currently do not have children yet…my favorite names for future sons are:
Bennett Oliver
William Everett (Liam)
Elliott Marshall
I love that they all have (multiple) double letters connecting them to each other yet sound distinctive and not too rhymey. I was even toying with Olliver the other day so each would have a set of double Ls and double Ts. It would be a bit of a stretch yet, but we have Tolliver, so I can see the rationale.
We have a Lilla and Vivienne and have Tess and Everett picked out for our baby that is due this fall. We didn’t plan on a double letter theme but it looks like we are going to have one. I’m not sure if it will be a requirement for the next child but it will definitely be a preference.
We have given our children family names, and we ended up giving them all 2-syllable names that start with vowels. The two syllable vowel thing was random for the first two children, but we tried to keep the “trend” for #3. All three names are also bilingual (French/English), but carry different ponunciations in each language, which is neat.
Our first, Agnes P@tricia, got named after her two great grandmothers. We love both our grandmas dearly, but the name selection was coincidental… I liked hubby’s grandma’s name (Agnes) without knowing it was her name, and vice versa for the middle name. Both great grandma’s were very pleased to have a namesake. So, bonus good feelings all around!
Child number 2 got a first name we loved (Irene) and a deceased great grandmother’s name (Aldea) as a middle. Once we announced the name, we found out that Irene was great grandma Aldea’s sister… so, now we felt committed to finding family names for subsequent children.
For baby 3, we looked to the family tree for inspiration. He is named after a great-great uncle Ephraim, and carries the honour name Bernard for both our fathers (who have the same given name).
We don’t consider any of their names to truly be honour names, except for the middle name Bernard.
This is fun!
Random naming tradition – My mom gave us all a Biblical name. Three of them are in the first name slot, and two are in the middle name slot. Zachary, Seth, Rachel, Matthew and Rebecca.
Um, I effing LOVE your family’s names!
If this is to me…thanks! I always tell my mom she did a good job, lol.
To me, an honor name is one that you can tell your child about the person he/she was named after and why you wanted them to have the same name. “We named you Donald because that was my grandfather’s name and he was the kindest, gentlest man I ever knew. He was much beloved in his community and always made me feel like my feelings always mattered.” or “We named you Amelia after Amelia Earhart because she was brave and adventurous and one of my earliest heroines.”
So my first “rule” on honor names is that the the person being honored doesn’t have to be a relative or even someone you know but does have to be someone you know enough about to want to honor them. You may still have a story to tell plucking the name from the family tree but it isn’t an “honor” story. “We looked at several babyname sites and had a few names we each liked but none stood out as YOUR name. Then I was looking at the family tree and saw Anderson was the name of your great-grandfather’s cousin. We both instantly fell in love with the name and felt it was right for our baby.”
My second “rule” is that you don’t have to use the exact name if the intent to honor is behind the name. A little Jamie may be named for her Grandpa James but she doesn’t have to be named James to make it an honor name. So, in your example, if the story of how Mia got her name is “Grandma Mildred is a remarkable, strong woman who raised seven kids by herself after her husband died. She always had time for each one of us kids. We selected Mia in honor of your grandmother because it sounds better with our last name” then Mia has on honor name. If the story is “We felt that we should pick a family name but really didn’t like Mildred at all so we went with a name we loved” than I don’t see it as an honor name.
I think the Jewish pattern of not selectly a name of living relative but using their first initial still constitutes using an honor name BECAUSE everyone in the family, including the child when old enough, understands it is an honor name “How nice it is that named the baby Skyler after grandma Sadie. She is so proud of her little namesake.”
I had written in earlier about John nn Jack (the apparent obsoleteness of that nickname in my generation). Before we were pregnant, I had expressed the desire to name a first son after my grandfather, whose whole name was H____t John Virgil S_____r. After using Virgil was nixed, we agreed to use John and exclusively call him Jack, which is how my grandfather was known. It also helped tie the honor to him rather than my uncle (who’s still a good guy, don’t get me wrong!) or other male relatives named John.
For me, personally, it’s a stretch to cross genders with honor names. Naming a baby girl Hannah after her grandfather Herbert, because they share the same initial…..doesn’t work for me (of course, as the above discussion has pointed out, there are cultures that this is an accepted practice, to which I say good for them! :-) ). It is my background that honor names are the exact same name. If you want to honor somebody but it’s crossing genders or not an ideal name, I love it in the middle name position, or a second middle name. My own middle name is the same as my father’s (though spelled in a more feminine manner) and I plan on giving my first daughter my husband’s middle name in the same manner.
I do see the masculine / feminine versions of the same names as honor names though. For Grandpa Robert there is baby Roberta, or Grandmom Josephine there is a Joseph, etc.
I know you mentioned you WEREN’T looking for cultural differences here, just personal preferences. But I feel compelled! I did NOT understand either of those honor name scenarios you stated for a long time! But my future husband is Jewish… Which means babies will be given honor INITIALS. Reusing a name of a close relative, in many different ethno-religious groups and cultures, is out. So, now here I am, thinking about future children’s names in a manner that I never thought I would! I was ALWAYS like “naming a baby Ryan after Grandpa Robert makes no sense!” Now I’m like “hey, do it if that works for your family!” I love the tradition behind this (its mind blowing to think of *generations* being named like this, or at least the last few), and I am wholeheartedly on board now. And I wouldn’t give any future girls my grandmother’s name (same as a well known song that doesn’t have a good message about the woman) but now I DO get to honor her with an initial name.
Some have already commented on this, but I also think that there is a difference between an honor name, and a family name. A family name is either a nod to history, or using a common shared name (like a surname) whereas an honor name is about one specific person, even if other people in the world share the name.
Speaking as a child named with an honor name (for my maternal grandmother) with my brother, father, mother all having specific honor names too, it can be a little overwhelming. Sometimes I felt like I was supposed to extra love my grandmother, because I was named after her. Or I was supposed to be so much like her, when in reality I wasn’t. And she was a bit of a difficult person, so loving her SO much was often difficult. And there were pieces of it that made it hard to feel like my own person.
The combination of that plus feeling the need to interject more names into the family line (it would have gone Elizabeth, Phancy, Elizabeth, Phancy, Elizabeth) I used great great grandmother names for my kids. I felt like it still honored the family and the family connections, since I had heard about these women from their decedents, but it also allowed my children to have their own names, unencumbered by pressure.
I’m guilty of the latter–a name landed on our short list because it was the name of my great grandmother’s sister, who I never knew. We ended up using it because we fell in love with the sound and meaning of it, but I don’t consider it an honor name. It helps that the lady who inspired the name was a wonderful and admirable person, though! When people ask where we came up with the name (it’s the very underused French variation of Margaret), I say that my mother had an aunt with that name, because it’s the easiest way to explain it. And it is true that it’s how we were exposed to the name, it just isn’t our primary motivation in selecting it. I have zero problem with people saying that they used their family trees for name inspiration. I also would not call that an honor name any more than someone who used a favorite author’s or musician’s name as an inspiration.
Well, my feelings on honor names are a bit different than most. He Jewish naming tradition resonates with me – I’m a strong believer in “everyone gets their own n ame. So I absolutely feel that my daughter’s Gwendolyn honors my stepfather George.
Beyond that, I feel that the honor lies in the heart of the one doing the honor. G’s middle name is a mash up of my grandmothers’ names. I know my Grandma Betty didn’t think it was much of an honor, but in my mind, it links my little girl back to two women who were very important to me. I’m not sure how much she approves of the fact that I used Robin instead of Roberta to honor her late husband for my youngest, but I did, and I love hearing his name echoed in hers.
These are my children’s names, and they each have significance in our family, and that was what was important to me. (My husband’s family was highly dysfunctional, and while he didn’t know my stepfather, he did the others, and was happy to let me honor them. His father would have been honored if we had had a boy, and I promise he had plenty of input. )
Here’s a fun but touchy question! If you adopted a baby*, how would you honor their birth family and where they came from and their joining your family? How much would you change their names?
Some of my friends have a beautiful new baby. Her birth name is something like Paris Lee Elizabeth, and they like Elizabeth the best, so they’ve been calling her Paris-Beth. Later they may transition to just Beth.
*I specify baby because it feels different to me when a toddler/kid knows their name. I feel they need to be involved in the process, to the extent of their abilities.
I love thinking about this. Even though I’d want to make a general philosophical decision that would apply to all birth names, I think I’d in actual real life be HUGELY influenced by what I thought of the given name. For an infant, I would want to choose the first name myself—I think no matter what. But I think it would appeal to me to use the birth name as a middle name, if possible.
For me it might depend on the specific history of my baby. If it was pretty dark, I might want to cut all ties with his/her former life and change the name completely. Otherwise I would probably want to choose the first name and then keep one of the former names as a middle (or some kind of nod to the baby’s birth country, etc.) However this might be because I’m both a (slight) control freak and a (huge) name freak. :)
For a toddler or a child, I agree that the best course of action is to allow the kid to participate as much as they are able. I know one boy (around seven or eight) who decided to change his first name completely when his adoption was final, which I thought was so touching.
I would love to have some influence from the birth family in the middle name slot :)
My sister has three adopted children (all adopted at birth, and all open adoptions, which are the law where she lives). The younger two have the same birth mother, and I’m not sure whether she asked to be involved in naming or if my sister asked her to be, but their birth mother chose their middle names (only middle in one case, second middle in the other).
Hi there. I’m an adopted babe!! I was put up for adoption from birth (mother was young and felt that I could have had a “better” life with a family rather than a teenage… but no horrible past at all). My [adoptive] parents chose my name based on the names they liked – they did not keep my name that my biological mother chose (for legal purposes, she had to name me) as they felt like I was theirs, so they had a right to name me what they wanted. I think by them choosing my name, it likely helped my parents feel as though I was truly theirs and part of the family. I have no regrets and glad that they had that opportunity. My adoption was closed.
I think if the child being adopted was older and was aware of their name, then I would first determine what myself and my partner were comfortable with (would I be comfortable using the same name, would it feel odd if we did change their name, etc) so that I could prepare myself for either situation, then I would discuss my feelings and thoughts with the child and see what they wanted. If you explained to them that you felt like they are your child now, you would want to name them as you would any of your other children that may help make them feel more welcome… you could choose a name together. Alternatively, the child may feel connected to their name and that would give them a chance to discuss with you as well. Definitely would be more of an open discussion.
My daughter is adopted from China (as an infant) and we did what people are suggesting above: chose a Western name that was meaningful for us as her first name, and kept the name she was given at the orphanage as her middle name.
Our question we struggled with was that she was given a full name (first and last) in China. We only legally kept her first name as her middle name. We wondered if we should have kept her full name as two middle names, to give her more options/ signify that her whole name was real and meaningful to us as part of her heritage.
Oooh, name open thread! I love it!
My wife and I were just talking about how many people know the sex of their baby before he/she is born nowadays, so they don’t spend a lot of time talking about names for the opposite sex. She and I were both born to parents who didn’t know our sex ahead of time, so we have concrete “Here is absolutely what I would have been named if I were a boy” names. I would have been Benjamin Alan, and she would have been Peter Elliot. Do other people know what they would have been named? Are we horrendously old-fashioned in feeling a little sad for babies nowadays who don’t have fun would’ve-been alter egos? Or is the “team green” phenomenon making this still somewhat common?
I also know a few people who have both a boy and a girl name decided before the ultrasound. Of course, it’s easier to see a planned name changing between the ultrasound and birth than it is a few months after the birth cert’s signed (though both happen).
I like this too! I love knowing what people would have been named, and I like when I can at least GUESS at what my own kids would have been named if they’d been the opposite sex.
I am Jessemy Dawn, born 1976, would have been Joseph-something, possibly Joseph James.
Oh I have a question about this. My mom says they were going to name me Renee, but then when I wasn’t born with my father’s black hair they decided to name me Susannah (which I do not love, but that’s another story). Do you know what the deal is with Renee and dark hair, or was that just my Mom’s weird association?
I don’t have any dark-hair association with Renee, but I have a similar story. My mom’s parents decided to on two finalist names for her, one name if she was born with light hair, one if she had dark hair; neither name has those associations on its own: they’re both just common names of that decade. Leaving aside the part where many newborns are born with dark hair that later falls out and grows in a lighter color, I’ve always enjoyed that story, even though it’s a little baffling. Associations are funny. It reminds me of a post from the other day, where the letter-writer thought of the name Amelia as bold/daring and the name Clara as shy/sweet, but a commenter had the exact opposite feeling about the names.
Swistle, I think you should say the names, because it’s fun! (I’m Swistle’s mom, so I can say!) Their dark-haired name was “Susan,” their blond name was “Deborah.” An interesting tidbit about this is that my cousin (and lifetime dear friend) was born shortly after me and was named Deborah. Since we lived about 6 blocks from each other, I think it’s unlikely her parents would have named her Deborah if I had been named Deborah. So, I tell her her name is Deborah only because I have dark hair!
Ooh, this is so interesting! I don’t think it’s an isolated phenomenon either. My friend had a “dark hair/light hair” name picked out for her daughter…but she flip-flopped on them at the last minute and gave her thoroughly blonde daughter the “dark-hair” name ;)
I have an acquaintance who threw all contenders out the window when her daughter emerged with bright red hair. They named her Scarlett instead of the front runner Hazel.
(also, for the record I was going to be Avery if I was a boy…back in the day when it was still pretty exclusively a “boy name”).
I really like this too. But it’s also fun to know the alternate, same-gender name too! I was going to be Sydney until a week before my birth :) Then my parents were watching a baseball game and they announced a player’s daughter’s birth and decided they liked Courtney better!
Ha! My first name is Laura and middle is Shannon. My dad wanted Laura Shannon and my mum wanted Shannon Laura. My dad letting her have Shannon was a compromise because he associated the name Shannon with some horrible woman from his past or something. But my mum still wanted it as the first name. She jokes to this day about how my dad convinced her under the influence of childbirth to let him have his way. And so I am Laura Shannon. I don’t particularly like either of my names so it makes no difference to me what order they were in!
opposite gender names for my family are Laura, Eve, Dan and Mary.
I would have been keegan- glad I was a girl :)
I think team green keeps it a little bit “alive,” but I definitely think our generations have changed. I know that I would have been “Cody” back in the early 80’s, and we were team green with my son who would have been “Eliza Marie” if he had been a girl. This pregnancy (I am 35 weeks), we found out the sex at 20 weeks, but already had a boy name picked out. Well…she’s a girl, so we are going to “save” our boy name “Jasper Alan” for (hopefully) our next child. So, yes…our “team green” baby will know what his name would have been, and I guess our little girl will know that her name would have been her possible future brother’s name….?? Ha!
I always knew what I’d of been as a boy. (Matthew John) The only time I didn’t come up with one for my children, she happened to be a delivery room surprise girl instead of the boy they said. We’d finally come up with a boy name at some point and it did us no good. With my third, we had a back up girl name just in case. Somehow I think it’s to stop half of an argument. It was for us with my middle kid. Why argue about girl names if we didn’t need too. Hahaha. Am still laughing about it though.
In the days of the gender reveal parties (not to offend those that choose to know as there are certain advantages to each side and it really just comes down to personal choice), I’d prefer not to know as I love surprises and to me this is one in its purest form. However, the namer side would want to know just to know for sure which of my favorites I finally get to use but in the end you get to have a lifetime with that choice so deferring for 9 months for the surprise isn’t too bad.
Had I been a boy my name would’ve been Jonathan Carroll.
My name would have been Brett Daniel if I were a boy, and my parents’ other top choice for a girl was Sarah Marie. (Mid 80s, can you tell?)
I don’t have children yet, but I do plan on finding out the sex before each is born; however, my husband and I would be likely to choose frontrunners for both sexes before the 20-week ultrasound.
We found the gender of our kids but we had short list of names going intot he ultrasound.
Our first daughter Piper would have been Dawson or Cole
Our second daughter Felicity would have been Silas or Reid. Ivy was a front-runner name up until 37 weeks.
My mom said I most likely would have been a Benjamin if I would have been a boy.
I would have been named Christopher! Not sure of what the middle name would have been. My parents had been told that I was probably a boy based on the way my mom was carrying. Everyone knew that I was going to be named Christopher so when I was born, the doctor was all, “Congratulations you have a Christine!” which was a relief to my father who thought something was terribly wrong with my non-existent penis.
We had tenative names picked out before the ultrasound so my son does know what he would have been named if he had been a she. (That is not to say we might not have changed our mind closer to birth as we did with his actual name but it does give him an idea of what we were thinking at the time.)
BTW, I was always interested in what our “other”names might have been and knew from when I was pretty young. I was shocked when talking to my sisters that neither of them or remembered if they had ever even asked. I guess they really aren’t anme nerds.
We knew beforehand what we were having, but we had still discussed names before the ultrasound, so I know that my boys most likely would have been Eleanor (my great grandmother’s name) and Lillian had they been girls.
If I were a boy, I would have been Justin (born 1980).
My name would have been Tristan had I been a boy. Not sure on the middle name. My dad picked ours, and he has never said. I do find it super interesting that my two older brothers would NOT have been named Rachel had they been girls. The oldest (who is named Zachary) would have been Amanda and the 2nd (Seth) would have been Amber. I am reallyyyy glad my mom went with Rachel for me. Not a huge fan of the other two.
I also have a younger brother and sister who are twins. Cody never had a girl name picked for him (my mom said she knew all along that at least one would be a boy), and my sister Caitlyn would have been Corey had she been a boy.
I hope to have 3-4 kids, and do not plan to find out the gender of at least the first one (but probably all of them). I will absolutely pick boy and girl names for each, no matter what.
I always thought I would be able to wait and be surprised at birth, but once I got pregnant I couldn’t stand not knowing. After going through over a year of infertility treatments prior to IVF, the ability to finally plan and design a nursery was just too tempting. With IVF, since the possibility of twins is always there, we decided to have two male names and two girl names by the time of the ultrasound. We succeeded on the girls, the second boy name was harder for us. Thankfully we only had the one boy! While we disclosed the gender prior to his birthday, we did keep his name a surprise for the most part. We spilled at Christmas (his due date was two weeks later) to his grandparents, and a family friend was giving him a personalized ornament so we let her know too.
I was the only child of my parents that was a surprise (b. 1980’s). My parents must’ve had a sixth sense or something, because they only picked out girl names!
Supposedly, I would have been Christopher, but that’s all I know. Both my older brothers would have been Rachel. I would have, but two ladies used it prior to my mom. My younger brother would have been Jessica.
*two ladies my mom was close with, that is….
oooh, love this! I loved finding out what my “boy” name would have been. Brother was named after father, and paternal GF, cousin was named after maternal GF, so boy names were in short supply for a direct honor name. (Which was vital for my parents, I was eventually named after maternal GM). Anyway, I would have been Richard, after Great Uncle Dick. When I learned that at age 13 I was very very very grateful to have been a boy.
Also, my mom wanted to give me two middle names, and dad said no, but I’ve always considered “Sara” to be my unofficial middle name.
Fun topic! My sons Warren Isaac and Lee Anthony would have been Amelia Antoinette and Athena Rosemary. I knew the gender at 20 weeks both times but had the names for sure decided by then. I’m Rebecca, would have been John-Richard. My siblings are James, would have been Amanda, Josh would have been Crystal and Rachel would have been Cody.
I would have been Ian Jonathan, and so would each of my two sisters after me… when they finally had a boy, they named him Timothy (would have been Olivia). My alternate girl name was Martina.
My son Felix would have been Penelope, and both of my girls (Blythe & Eloise) would have been Kemuel- and if the next is a boy, we’ll still use that name :)
We had a boy name chosen for our first , who was a surprise. We found out with our second, which was good because weweweren’t agreeing on any boy names at all.
I would have had my brother’s name if I had been a boy. He would have been Heather.
I’m Alexandra Joan (paternal grandfather = Alexander; maternal grandmother = Joan.) Had I been a boy, I’d’ve been named Alexander Richard (maternal grandfather, Richard.) An Alex no matter what.
My only sibling is a younger sister named Elisabeth Edith (only Edith is a family name in that set.) Had SHE been a boy, she’d be Adam Richard.
Had my parents had a third daughter, she’d’ve been Veronica Margo. (My dad is Ron, my mother is Margo.)
:)
I think the name Beverly is poised for a comeback, which I find pleasing because it’s my mother’s name. I wish i had another baby to use it on! I named my daughter Bonnie (my grandmother’s name), which might be coming back, too?
What other names are on the cusp of a revival?
I’ve seen Ethel and Edna mentioned more times than I would expect; it makes me wonder if they’re either on the cusp or one step away from the cusp.
I’m hoping that Edith is, as it’s a family name on my side. The nickname Edie seems like it’d fit right in today.
I know multiple wee Ediths! I love running into that name. Ethel and Edna I can’t picture, even on a wispy-haired sweetling.
That makes me happy! If you’re willing to share, are you in the US/what region? I’m in New England & haven’t heard it.
One on the west coast (WA/CA) and one in PA!
I love Edith, I suggested it when I was pregnant (was a boy), but it was nixed…if J. had been a girl he probably would have been an Eleanor, which was the only girl name we could agree on.
I like Bonnie and Connie and love Betsy too, also Kitty and Dorothy. Not sure if Beverly’s time has come again yet.
Here’s something that I haven’t ever seen discussed: honoring someone by letting them choose the middle name, rather than by making the middle name their name.
This is what we did. My husband and I wanted to honor our mutual closest friend, but were expecting a boy. I’ll just go ahead and use the actual example because I can’t think of another way to translate what happened. Her name is Naomi, which really doesn’t have an androgynous sound, nor an easy masculine option. We told her we wanted to honor her with the name and she gave the following train of logic: “The biblical Naomi at one point calls herself Mara, and Mara can be masculinized as Marius [the friend in question is also a classicist, fluent in Latin], and Marius sounds really cool, so how about that?”
So that is our son’s middle name.
For those of us who are into names – wouldn’t that be a great way to be honored? I would personally rather get to use one of my great name ideas on someone else’s kid (since I will never be able to have enough of my own!) rather than have them use my own name.
ooooh! That would be awesome! And what an honor!!! I would honestly feel MUCH more honored to pick a name than for someone to use my name.
That could work really well as it did in your case or backfire completely. A few people I might like to honor have widely different tastes in names than I do. I would be hard pressed to use a name they might choose in some cases even in the middle.
Also as a name nerd, I might like the honor of choosing a middle name for someone else but not like giving up one of my few chances to name another human being.
This is really cool!
Another question on the honor name. Someday (if we have the opportunity), we would like to use a girl’s middle name to honor a recently deceased relative who was very important to us all. Now, say that relative’s “real” name was Elizabeth but everyone knew her as “Liz” (and some didn’t even know her real name was Elizabeth). Is it more of an honor to pick the formal original name (Elizabeth) or can we go with a nickname that everyone knew (Liz)? I would lean towards “Liz” because I knew her as “Liz,” but it seems odd to pick a nickname for a child’s middle name.
I don’t’ think you can go wrong in a situation like that.
Agree
I think it really depends on the nickname, and in the majority of cases my preference would be to use the formal name. In the example, Liz just so clearly sounds like a nickname I would use Elizabeth.
If it is more along the lines of Katherine called Kate, I think the nickname would work. But of course, in the long run, it’s just very nice of you to honor your relative!
This is a category of honor name where I feel like it works either way and you can take your pick. For example, if you loved your Grandpa John, and he went by Jack, I think you could use John OR Jack as the honor name. I see what you mean about a nickname as a middle name, but it seems easy to explain: I wouldn’t even go into detail, I’d just say, “It’s after my Aunt/Grandma/Cousin Liz.”
I think I would use Elizabeth as the actual middle, but use Liz as a nickname. As in, Katherine Elizabeth becomes Katie Liz around the house.
I think it’s totally fine to use either in this case, especially since Liz is a well known nickname for Liz. I might feel differently if the honoree’s nickname that they went by, were completely different from the first name. So if your person’s name was Elizabeth but they always went by Daisy or their middle name, then I would try to use the name that they went by.
*Liz is a well known nickname for Elizabeth
Bad case of the Mondays over here.
I agree that either could work and I’d probably make my decision based on how well each flowed with the first name. Whatever one sounds better wins!
Hey Swistle (and all),
I just wanted to comment and thank you for your sensitivity in handling name updates. You were kind enough to use a letter of mine back in July of 2014, I believe (Sibling to “Eli Dane”), and we did lose the baby soon after the letter (with all the wonderful comments and suggestions) was published. I wanted to thank you again for answering my letter and let you know that I am now 35 weeks pregnant with a little girl. I will update you when she arrives, but for now we are narrowing down our final choices (Vivian, Coretta, Louisa, Adele, Norah, and Linnea)…..feel free to let me know your fav/s! A few notes below:
Vivian (“Vivi”) Marie (I love the meaning and the nn….probably our top contender at this point. Worried about popularity just a bit)
Coretta (“Etta”) Marie (Again, I love the nn, as I’ve always had a soft spot for Etta James and my husband and I saw her in concert when we were dating. Does anyone see a problem with using either this given name and/or nn for a Caucasian baby?)
Louisa Marie (Again, love this, but do you say it with an “s” or a “z” sound??… This name was a suggestion from the commenters of my first post….thanks again!)
Adele (Like, but not sure I love nn options)
Norah (Popularity…)
Linnea (Not my husband’s favorite, but I love. My name is Lindsey…is this too close??)
I’m sorry for your loss, and glad to hear of your coming joy.
Vivi sounds so bubbly and bright, a burst of sunshine.
I love the idea of Etta! I do have to pause so that Etta-Owens doesn’t blur when I say it, but I think I could get used to that. I’m white too, so I can’t give useful feedback on that, but I like the idea of honoring Coretta Scott King and Etta James. They’re strong, marvelous women—good people for a wee girl to look up to as she grows. For that reason alone, this is my favorite.
I say Louisa with a bit of both an S and Z—not Lou-WHEEZ-a but not Lou-EESS-a either. Sort of Louizsa. I think people will follow your lead on how to pronounce it.
Linnea is darling, and not too close to Lindsey at all for my tastes. Adele and Norah are also wonderful. I pretty much adore your naming style.
I’m so so sorry for your loss, but thrilled that you’re expecting now.
I don’t see a reason why you cannot use Coretta (nn Etta) on a Caucasian baby, but then, I have a friend who named their Caucasian baby Etta and it doesn’t hurt that their Etta may be one of the cutest babies I’ve ever seen, ever (and I have my own kid! Sorry kiddo!) I also love Vivian with the nickname Vivi (although, it may eventually be shortened to Viv.) I think if you’re worried about popularity, Coretta is probably the way to go, but honestly I love all your choices and you can’t go wrong!
I love all your options! I considered Della or Delia as a nn for Adelia, both of which also work with Adele, which I think are quite pretty. One of my daughters is Eleanor nn Nora, so I feel your frustration with its popularity as well!
So sorry for your loss. Thanks for including us again in your naming process. I find choosing girl’s names so hard! These are all beautiful options. I love Vivian and Coretta the most. I personally find Linnea too close to Lindsay, but could also see it working nicely.
I’m sorry for your loss too. My daughter is a Vivian and despite it breaking the SSA’s Top 100 last year, I haven’t met any little kids with her name.
I don’t see any issues with using Coretta or Etta. I really like Linnea and a friend just named her daughter Louisa so I’m also loving it.
We also have a Vivienne who is 3 and have yet to meet another. Our older daughter is 5 and there aren’t any Vivian’s in her age group either.
I work at a preschool in Denver, and we’ve had a parade of Vivians over the past handful of years. :)
As everyone else, sorry for your loss. We’ve had a few close friends lose their babes and it is something that you have no words to fully describe your pain and love and support for them.
Onto happier news, congrats!!!
I personally love Etta!! We would LOVE to choose this name except it does not go with our last name. Coretta is a nice name (FYI – it is a vehicle… at least it used to be?? Not sure if they still make them? Not sure if this bothers you or not). Other options to get to Etta, Julietta, Violetta, Rosetta.
I’m with another poster on how I pronunciate Louisa… Lou-wheez-sa… sort of use both the Z and S sounds (I’m from Canada though).
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Thanks so much, everyone! As many of you, Vivian/Vivi and Coretta/Etta are my favorites too. Does either “work” better with sibling Eli? I think they both work, and we could even “keep” the other for a future sibling. Our future “boy” name is probably Jasper, and we do hope to have 1-2 more children. Does this affect anyone’s opinion?
My favorite is Coretta (mainly because I LOVE the nn Etta!). I don’t find either name tied to a specific race although I can see why you are questioning it. The two woman are great namesakes IMO, no matter your race. Plus, I think its sweet that Etta has a special meaning to you and your husband.
I work at a daycare (in central NJ) and have yet to meet a baby Vivian. I don’t think the name is over the top popular just yet.
Can anyone help me come to terms with the name Lyle? My husband is set on naming a future son after his hero – his grandfather. I can’t possibly imagine the name Lyle on a baby and I hate the way it sounds and looks. I never got to meet his grandfather, so I don’t have the same positive associations with the name. I’m cool with using Lyle as a middle name but can’t imagine calling my son Lyle.
I like two syllable names for babies so that you can sing-song them. There aren’t any nickname possibilities with Lyle, sing-songing Lyyyylie just sounds awful.
I mentioned to him the other day that I want to use an honor name from my family too but was concerned about the nickname for that name and he said “It won’t matter, we’ll call him Lyle.”
Can anyone help me with it? It’s not an issue yet but it will be in the future so I’m trying to get on board but I just can’t.
I don’t know if it will help, but I do like the name Lyle and would be pleased and surprised to see it on a class list or birth announcement. The name Kyle seems to have come and gone, and Lyle feels like a good next incarnation of it. It reminds me too of Eli and Liam, both currently in style. I like how it’s familiar but unusual, and I like that it feels flexible: it could work on a football star or an algebra star. I also have a positive association with Lyle Lovett; I’m not even sure WHY, except that I was so charmed when he and Julia Roberts got married. My lingering impression was of someone confident and appealingly quirky.
Thanks for your input! I do see what you mean about it being a flexible name. I love the idea of our son being “appealingly quirky.”
Maybe we’ll get a girl (we will adopt in the future) and our grandmothers’ names are absolutely perfect for a little post 2015 baby – Elsie Dot. :)
I’m mostly disconcerted that your husband isn’t considering your feelings in the matter. “Doesn’t matter, we’ll call him Lyle” feels dismissive to me, like he’s assuming that since it’s important to him, you’ll be okay with it. And you’re trying to be, but you’re not yet, and it’d be nice if he’d meet you where you are.
Re singsong: Lyyy-ul works really well for me to coo.
I pretty much get my way with EVERYTHING else so I’m willing to work through and try to come to his side on this one…He’s very easy-going but this is very important to him. (His middle name is Lyle, too.)
You have a great attitude. Also remember that you can your nickname for him that only you use. My Mom and dad both liked my full but each had a different preferred nickname for me. Most of the world used the nickname my Dad preferred but Mom always used (she recently past) her preferred nickname. I liked that unique connection with my Mom.
So think of your favorite names that would make a good middle name for Lyle. For example, if you like Leonardo. You could name the baby Lyle Leonardo and you could call him Leo as unique nickname between Mom and son.
Or Lyon, that’s a lovely version, and you could do lots with that. Hear him roar!
I knew a little Margo whose Dad called her Mango, always thought that was adorable.
I’m kind of agreeing with this. Even if your husband is usually very easygoing, I know I’d be automatically negative about the name Lyle if my spouse were so dismissive when I brought up using an honor name from my family. Paradoxically, it might help you come around if he’d agree to discuss other possibilities.
That said, I do think Lyle sounds like an updated version of Kyle. It’s familiar as a name but not at all common, which many people see as a plus. Plus there’s cutesy rhyme potential for a baby, like Lyle-Mile and Lyle-Smile and Lyle-Isle (a magical island overrun with cute babies named Lyle!).
Awwwwwww Lyle-isle!
Trying thinking of the good things about Lyle (which, hopefully this thread will help you with that list). Hopefully if you concentrate on the more positive side of it, you might be able to brush off your hesitations if the time comes that you have a little Lyle.
I would be please too see Lyle on a class list at my son’s presechool or on a birth announcement. It seems on trend with Miles, Eli, Elijah, Elias, Isla, Briar etc
Ly-ly could be a cute nickname.
Lyle seems very flexible. I know there are athletes named Lyle (a baseball player maybe? I don’t do sports.) but I can easily see it on a quiet/shy person or a clown. A lawyer or a programmer.
While your husband does seem very set in his idea, I know from experience that have an actual baby to name (instead of a theorehtical/some day baby) can change our ideas. Here’s hoping that he softens a bit and/or that you find that you can live with the drawback.
Think of how special he will feel reading Lyle, Lyle, Crocodile! http://www.amazon.com/Lyle-Crocodile/dp/0395137209
(that may be little concession but perhaps you could read it and it may help you see Lyle as cute).
I was going to comment the same thing. I love those Lyle books and it definitely adds to the cute baby factor of it. You could even use some of the art in decorating the nursery.
Do you like the name Lila/Lyla? Maybe hope for a girl first and insist on Lyla to honor your husband’s grandfather and take Lyle off the table?
Or use Lyle in the middle name slot and let your husband call the kid what he wants, while you (and probably everyone else) uses the first name. By the time the kid is in school, he’d probably only use the first name anyway, unless Lyle is by then considered a “cool name” in which case he’d have that option and you’d probably come around to it by then anyway.
Ooh, good idea with Lila/Lyla! That might not be a concession her husband is willing to make since he sounds dead-set on honoring his male relative, but that would open a different category of name possibilities, particularly if there are potential future siblings down the road.
My BIL has a step daughter named Lilly that he only calls “Lyle” and it is surprisingly adorable and very catchy on her. I agree with helping him explore the possibility of using Lyla to honor his grandfather. I’m a worrier by nature, so I think of these things, but what if y’all saved “Lyle” for a boy and then didn’t have one?
I was also going to mention Lyle, Lyle, Crocodile. :) I think it’s sweet. I actually just saw it on an old episode of “16 and Pregnant” as the baby’s name (guilty pleasure, don’t judge!).
I like Lyle, it feels classic but underused (so perfect in other words), and I have always liked the name Carlisle.
As for nn, you could do Mr Lyle, or Ly Guy, or Base it on initials (we call my daughter Fiji based on her initials Fjy) or on the middle name (Lyle Oliver = Lollie, Lyle Atticus =Laddie)
Oooh, I have an honor name question too! I’m with you all in the exact name and as an honor not because of the family tree camp. Our daughter’s middle name is Elizabeth which is my sister and my aunt’s middle name. (To the above poster, if I only knew her as Liz, I feel that is more of an honor than Elizabeth). Anyhow, we have a list of true honor middle names for future babies however I recently thought about Josephine which is similar in style, length, etc and that makes me happy. My husband’s middle name is Joseph. Is Josephine a feminized honor of my husband’s middle name or am I stretching it too much because of the other appealing attributes? I don’t know that would change my opinion on using the name but curious how others see it.
This is a type of alteration that makes sense to me: a Josephine named for a Joseph, a Paul named for a Paula.
I realized only just now that I don’t think of it as “an honor name” if a parent uses his or her own name for a child. I think it’s that it doesn’t seem appropriate to honor oneself, even though it seems perfectly appropriate to name a child after oneself. I think I would call it a “family name” in that case.
Family name…great catch!
I don’t think it is a stretch at all. My middle name is Davina after my father who is named David. People always make the connection that it is the feminized version of his name.
I used this above as an example, but yes, I do think Joseph and Josephine are the two sides of one coin, and clearly the gendered versions of the same name. Also: Robert-Roberta; George-Georgia; Michael-Michaela; and so on.
We have done family names as a way to wrangle the world of naming choices so far. We are mostly happy with that. We should have done a little more investigating on a couple of the names because we didn’t get them exactly right. My Uncle Jimmy’s given name is Jimmy not James and so our honor middle name of James wasn’t quite on target. Another name we used the misspelling from the 1914 Ellis Islands records because no one told us husband’s grandpa’s name was screwed up at Ellis Islands until our baby was several months old. But we prefer the nickname Quinn to Cory anyway, so it’s fine.
Lately I am obsessing over when gender neutral names become unusable for boys (because sadly, we all know it doesn’t really go the other way). I am not expecting, but should I ever succeed in talking my husband into having one more, I just love the name Skylar/Skyler. I would want to use it for a boy or girl (and wouldn’t fine out before hand which we were having). Taking both spellings into account, there are currently 4 or 5 girls given the name to every 1 boy, plus it is still rising for girls and falling for boys. Is it too late to use Skyler for a boy? I don’t have a problem with gender neutral names, but I wouldn’t want him to constantly be mistaken for a girl.
Furthermore, we used honor names for middle names for our other three kids, and were so happy to be able to honor family members that we didn’t give much thought to liking the names or the flow with the first/last, and I have been happy with this choice. The names have a way of growing on you and becoming just the right name once they are attached to your dear little one. If I do use Skyler for a boy I may throw this out the window though in order to give him a clear concise boy’s name for a middle, though I’m not sure what would work best.
And finally, I absolutely love reading the baby name updates when they do come so thanks to all those parents who do manage to get them in!
We know two under-ten Skylars who are girls and one boy, but he’s a teen. Where I live a baby Skylar would definitely imply “girl” to me. I think I’m extra-sensitive to this because I am an “Erin” who had a (very cute!) pixie haircut and was often mistaken for an “Aaron” when I was young. I hated it. So I resolved to give my kids gender specific names. I totally get why it’s not a big deal to other parents, but this is my story.
My ex-husband has a gender-neutral first name and hated it. In his case, it was always being mistaken for a girl when people saw the name before meeting the person. As a result, I am very wary of gender neutral names as well.
I’ve only ever known 2 Skylars – one boy one girl. Honestly, the name isn’t big enough in this area for me to associate it with one sex over the other. I’d probably ask before I’d ever assume.
I would definitely think girl, unless I saw the name with what I consider to be the proper spelling, Schuyler. Then I would pause and lean toward it possibly being a boy name.
My brother’s name is Schuyler (pronounced Skyler)….so that’s another spelling to consider. He was named after Schulyer Colfax, VPOTUS 1869-1873. It reads more masculine to me than Skyler or Skylar, but maybe that just because I only know the name on my brother. Of course, the risk of the spelling Schuyler is having people call out: “Ummm…shooler? shyler?” all your life…
Here’s what I’ve been thinking about lately: If we have a third (big if), I’d like to use a Dutch name to honor my mom’s Dutch heritage (she grew up in a town in Iowa that, at the time, was almost exclusively Dutch immigrants or their descendants). But from my research, the Dutch names are either too out there to American eyes/ears or are spelled with Dutch spellings that have similar spellings in English, which would be really confusing. For instance, Susanne (Dutch spelling) is pronounced Susahnna, which I think is really pretty, but obviously would be pronounced differently in the U.S. Or my other favorite is Anneke, pronounced Ahnika, but the pronunciation is not obvious from the spelling. So would it be better to go with the authentic spelling or not? It seems like using the authentic spelling would be a pain of always correcting people, but not using the authentic spelling isn’t…authentic. Thoughts? (Or ideas/corrections on Dutch names?)
Well, what are your other 2 children’s names? If they aren’t dutch I might think it’s a little.. odd to have a third authentic dutch child.. with the other two.. unauthentic undutch children (loll).
Middle name?
Haha. Actually, part of what gave me this idea is that we unintentionally gave our kids names from other aspects of our heritage–Italian (my dad) and Irish (my husband’s family). They are Livia and Declan. Obviously names that are more familiar in the U.S.
No idea on middle names–this is all hypothetical. :)
My partner is Dutch and I’m Canadian, we live in Canada and will raise kids in Canada so this is something I think about a lot. I like the idea but would strongly suggest a Dutch name that the North American ear can handle (and the North American brain can learn to spell). I think Anneke is cute for a girl and not too out there spelling or sound-wise. It would work! My favourite girl Dutch name is Maryse which we might use one day. We also like Anja, but my partner’s sister already used that for her daughter! My favourite boy Dutch names that I think are manageable in English are Arie, Sander and Henrick/Hendrick. (Ok technically I think they would spell it Henrik or Hendrik, but I think the ck helps out the North Americans with those names).
I wouldn’t use Susanne for a girl if you intended it to be pronounced Susahnna though… that’s an uphill battle your child would be fighting her whole life. I would also caution you against using names with J’s or G’s in them because of the different pronunciation issues in both languages. (Although for some reason I think it works in the case of Anja, people just seem to intuitively know it should be pronounced like Anya).
Thanks for the feedback and ideas!
I also have a friend “Mat,” who is a Mathieu; that may work for you, particularly with you other kids’ names.
In general, I think it’s fine to translate an honor name into the language/alphabet the child will be growing up with. So to use the most obvious example, if you lived in the United States and wanted to use a Chinese name, I don’t think you need to use the Chinese characters in order for that name to be authentic; I think it would be better to translate it into the alphabet and language of the country in which you’d be raising the child. With Dutch or Irish names, I think the same: their alphabet looks the same but doesn’t work the same, so I think it is fine to translate names to make them work in U.S. English if necessary. But in some cases, I find that ruins the name for me (example: the Dutch name Thijs, which I don’t like anymore if it’s Tyce); in that case, I would either think, “Well, I guess that makes that name not work for us, then” (as I did with Thijs) or I would use it as the middle name, where I don’t think pronunciation/spelling issues matter much at all.
I know a young Annika! Her siblings don’t have dutch names (J0nah, C@leb, Nich0las, M@ra, Th0mas) and it works nicely. I’ve known other Annikas, so the spelling and pronunciation feel intuitive to me.
I think Annika would go nicely with Livia and Declan.
I think names are so varied these days that you’d be fine. I think I’d go with Susanna, rather than than Susanne; you’ll still get the short a pronunciation, but you’re only fighting one battle then. It wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me. Frozen has helped us all get used to the Ah-na version. I do love Anneke and Anja, though. I also think Henrik works fine without the ck.
Oh! I thought of another “naming tradition” I’m planning. My mom’s middle name is Maureen, and mine is Marie. I plan on using Maren for a daughter’s middle name :) I love that this is not an honour name, but just something fun that has no pressure. And no one but the three of us would maybe even realize!
I’m such a name nerd!
That’s really cute!
What to do with all the names I won’t get to use is something that I feel wistful over (I wish there was a verb for that….that I wist over?).
I particularly enjoy thinking up favorite combinations for twin names.
I like twinned meanings (Felix and Naomi, Margaret and Pearl, Susannah and Lily).
I have recently fallen in love with the twin boys name pair Jasper and Forrest. Jasper, one of the only boy jewel names, and Forrest, one of the few boy nature names.
Of course, we have a zero incidence of twins in my family, and I don’t particularly WANT to have twins ever. But for some reason I find imaginary twins to be the most fun to name. I think because there are so many extra fun elements.
Imaginary twin names are the best! It’s a fun hypothetical to think about what makes a good theme and how “twinny” you think is too twinny.
I think Forrest and Jasper would be a lovely twin pairing. I also like Simon and Jasper together, although in my mind the theme there is “cat names.” Which I would consider one step below a honor name (I have known several lovely cats with those names), but other people might find a little weird!
Yes, I rather like thinking about twin names that are subtlely connected. Jasper and Forrest are the kind I really like. So currently my favorite fantasy twin names are:
BG: Anna and Otto
GG: Eden and Iris
BB: Arlo and Zane
Tips on strategy for coming to an agreement with a spouse? My husband and I have a pretty similar taste in names, but he will often rule out a name that he considers “weird” (examples: Felicity, Phoebe — objectively not weird!) that I have carefully thought about. (Note: we don’t have children, but have had a few long car rides recently & this is a good way to kill time.)
This is a little bit funny to me because my husband and I ultimately decided on Felicity after many conversations (then we had a boy). The first conversation we had about the name he told me he thought it was one of the most terrible names (think prostitute, it was a bad conversation). But I showed him many examples of real people with it and also looked at when it was popular, to kinda prove it didn’t fit the mould he thought it was. Thankfully for you, you have some time to win him over!
Ha, that’s too funny. It’s such a lovely name, why are there such strong reactions to it? I’ve actually backed off for the moment so I can revisit Felicity when we actually, you know, NEED a baby name. :)
I also loved Felicity! And then someone said they could only think “fellatio” when they heard it. ugh.
We used to talk about baby names on long car rides as well. For my husband the things that helped him consider names that I like and he didn’t were:
1. Repeated mentions
2. “proving” that names weren’t weird (SSA stats etc)
3. Find somone “cool” with the name (could be an athlete, an author, an actor, a character, didn’t matter).
But the #1 thing that made him “come around” was having a real baby to name. Somehow it really made a difference for him that we were talking about a real baby not just a hypothetical some-day baby.
Thanks for this, and yes, I’m actually interested to see how even my *own* name preferences change if/when we are blessed with a real baby! In the meantime, I’ll pull out the SSA stats!
The thing about naming an actual child is that, generally, both parents have to agree. In a Venn diagram world, where there’s a circle of names I like and a circle of names my husband likes, the name of our kid comes from the small piece where the 2 circles overlap. This means that I had to give up on 3 or 4 syllable names, and my husband had to give up on names where I don’t like the ending and we had to find the few names where we both agreed it was “okay”.
So, if you have similar taste, but he thinks certain names are “weird” then those names are out, but luckily you still have similar taste and some names you both like.
We chose Felicity and DH was not on board at first! I won him over by (1) departing it so it became normal, (2) addressing his negative association (he thought the tv show Felicity was ditzy etc but neither of us had seen it . It actually was serious and highly acclaimed). (3) adding new positive associations (I explained to me it evoked the American Girl, daughter of the American revolution, timeless and classic)
Uh… repeating, not departing…
On the topic of honor names…has anyone eliminated a name because the honoree hates their name and derivatives aren’t doing the trick?
The honoree would be a Gretchen. She has always hated her name (and her middle name). It also would be very clunky with our last name…long and Italian with a -ch- sound in the middle.
I can’t get my husband on board with my favorite Margot and the others aren’t doing much for me…Margaret, Maggie, Pearl (one of his pics), Greta…
Even if I could get him to come around, is Margot a stretch as an honor name for Gretchen? This is all hypothetical for a first pregnancy we’re planning. A boy’s name is set.
Usually the honor is bestowed in the middle spot in our families and I do have unrelated favs for a first but I feel like Margot may be too cool to pass up.
I love Margot SO MUCH and my husband says it’s….a stripper name?
In what UNIVERSE is that a STRIPPER NAME??
Then it turned out he went to school with a girl named Margot who is actually a stripper, so I guess he meant literally, as opposed to like, you named your baby Diamond.
But I love Margot. It’s such a GOOD name.
I KNOW IT! A stripper name = a female name that the guy doesn’t like. I can’t remember whether it was Laura Wattenburg or Swistle who advised against using a Google Image search as a litmus test for a name, because every female name on EARTH will be associated with images that evoke the sex industry.
I also like Margot, or Margeaux, especially after noticing them in Gone Girl and How Should a Person Be? by Sheila Heti.
I think of Margot and Gretchen as unrelated, but I love it when people find a way to connect their friend with their child other ways, whether the term “honor name” technically applies. Like, what did Gretchen want to be called as a child? Women she admires? What is her birth place, birth month, things in nature that she loves? Etc.
Have you talked to the potential honoree about what she thinks? Maybe she would feel similarly honored if you asked her to help choose the name (e.g., she picks the final name from a list of your top five favorites). Or maybe she thinks Margot is close enough that she would feel honored by it. In this case, I think it matters less what we think and more what you/she thinks.
I would LOVE people’s help with a naming conundrum my husband and I are discussing (we’re not pregnant yet, but we’d like to start our family soon). Both of our fathers and oldest brothers share first names; my dad and brother are Peter and his dad and brother are Thomas. My husband absolutely LOVES the idea of naming our child Peter Thomas after all four of them (our kids will have my husband’s surname). I am not wild about repeating first names within an extended family, but I am somewhat okay in this case because our child would have a different last name than the other Peters.
My real issue with it is that my brothers and I have an… interesting relationship with our father. He’s not an evil man, but he was not an easy person to grow up with. So while I absolutely adore the idea of honoring my older brother, I don’t necessarily want people to think that we’re honoring my dad, because there have been times where he has made life incredibly hard. I would just use my older brother’s middle name, but his middle name is my husband’s first name, and we definitely don’t want to repeat first names within our little family. There are non-family first names that we like, but my husband REALLY likes this idea and I think it’ll be hard to convince him to do otherwise.
Any thoughts/opinions/suggestions would be MUCH appreciated!
I’m firmly in the corner of “no one owns a name” but in situations like this .. What if the brother would like to use his name on his own child? In some families it’s not a big deal though so I guess you just have to judge for yourself.
If you like the name Simon, I’d find that to be a clever connection.
What about using your brother’s middle name/husband’s first name as a middle name for a future boy?
My brother definitely has no plans to use his name for any of his kids, so that wouldn’t be an issue (thanks for bringing that up though, because that is something to consider).
I’m all for using my brother’s middle name/husband’s first name as a middle name, but my husband isn’t wild about it. The name is actually incredibly popular on my side of the family (and on my husband’s as well) so it wouldn’t feel like we’re honoring my brother as much as honoring both families. That’s a cool “problem” to have, but I’d like it if it were more obvious that we were honoring my brother.
Anyone have any thoughts on when someone you don’t want to honor actually shares the name you want to use?
All hypothetical for me at this point but there’s a name in my family and my husband’s family that is shared by 2 people we’d want to honor and 2 people we don’t want to honor. I’ve decided it’s unusable. I’d prefer not to use it then feel like I had to specify exactly who it’s meant to recognize.
I think that’s what will end up happening. I also don’t want to deal with the family drama that will inevitably come with saying that the name honors my brother and not my dad.
Thanks!
Could you give a nod to your brother in another way, like using his initials? It’s subtle, but if you told him in advance it’d be sweet. Or maybe he could be godfather or something like that?
We named our daughter J3w3L after my grandmother. A few people have asked “like the singer?” and my response is “No, like my grandmother!” It’s a totally different situation, but similar in that the parents can be clear about who is being honored with the name. So “oh, like your dad?” would be countered with “no, like my brother!”
I have always loved the name Azlee for a girl…Like Ashley, but with a Z. BUT, it totally doesn’t match any of the other names I like which are more Southern/surname/honor names. (Think: Rider, Ellis, Vance, Garett, John, Alma, etc.) Wouldn’t it look so strange to have one kid with a outlier name? I wish not!
For twin girls, I’m stuck on Azlee and Alma (family name). For twin boys, (and there are two sets of twin boys in my family) I like Ethan and Wyatt or Silas and Archer.
Side note: I’m LOVING Charleston for a girl lately, too!
I know of a little girl named Azalea (nn Zellie) and she’s just about the cutest girl ever. It feels very similar to Azlee, but I like that it’s a flower name and not made up. It also seems a little bit southern, no? Just a thought!
I would be curious to know if your brother ever plans on using his name on a son. I typically view honor names that have already been used as belonging to the second namesake unless they plan to discontinue the tradition.
This might also get you “off the hook” if you’re not sold and open the discussion to different options. I have a similar situation with my dad. Personally I wouldn’t his name as a first and I feel there are so many other wonderful names to consider. However, if it’s unavoidable, I think initials would do the trick and I know a college aged Peter who goes by his first and middle initials P.T.
I responded above, but just in case you don’t see it, my brother definitely won’t use his first name for one of his kids. He hated that he and my dad had the same first name growing up and what a pain it was when traveling (the airline always thought they somehow doublebooked and never understood that they were two separate people). He won’t use it as a middle name for any of his kids either.
I think there are many great names out there to consider as well, but my husband is so hung up on family connections to names that it severely limits our scope. I’m really hoping I can convince him to look outside the family tree for first names. I LOVE initial nicknames as well, but my husband hates them with just as much vigor. We probably should have taken a naming compatibility test before getting married ;-)
I’ve often thought about the following suggestion, but thought it was sort of forward to suggest a whole new genre of posts for someone else’s blog! Is it at all appealing to have submissions detailing how a reader came to name his/her actual child? E.g., Our short list included X,Y, Z, we struggled with these particular factors, and ultimately decided on Baby Name because of this Most Important Thing. I suppose there’s more opportunity for comments to be hurtful since the child is already named, but I’m just a sucker for immediate gratification. I think it would be fun, plus you wouldn’t have to worry about going digging for updates!
I think that’s an interesting idea! I like people’s naming stories, too. I think the biggest issue is that there’d be nothing for me to do: I’d be posting nothing except someone else’s post.
I agree with Swistle — I would love to hear people’s name stories, but would perhaps prefer it in more of a forum thread style rather than on a blog. Maybe a good idea for a thread over at the Nameberry forums?
Maybe you could post it in sets—here’s how Alex named their child, here’s how Chris and Morgan named their twins, here’s how Lee concluded it was worth it to re-name the child even though paperwork is unpleasant. Maybe you could tell the stories of your kids, too, even though you wouldn’t be sharing their actual names. (Like, I remember you saying Elizabeth’s name was “like Clarissa,” so you could use that as a stand-in.)
Good point. Aside from a bit of filtering, not much for the blogger to do for the blog post!
If this discussion is still going on….I’d love some advice.
I’ve been a name nerd since I was a child as well as being someone who loved children and has always been interested in them and child rearing. As someone who worked as a substitute teacher, I’ve been able to come across thousands of names and enjoy nerding over possibilities.
I’m lucky enough to have a significant other. For me, children was something I’d do ‘in the future’. I’m now 33 and for the past few years have been discussing children with my husband…but he doesn’t want any. :-(
When we first got together, he certainly wasn’t ruling them out, but seems to have changed his mind…and after a couple of years of on and off discussion, I’m realizing that he really doesn’t want them. He feels his life is perfect as it is now and so then why would he change that?
What makes this even more difficult for me is that he loves children and is wonderful with them. If he had no interest in them, I think it might be easier for me to come to terms with.
He has even said that if we did have children, he would probably enjoy it…but that he would feel trapped and not be living the life he wanted. He wants to continue traveling and sleeping in and doing exactly as we please etc. He knows of course that you can travel with children but that everything is so much more difficult. I would never pressure him or force an ‘accident’ so we’re at something of an impasse.
So over the last month or so, I’ve actually started to believe that I might never have a child of my own to name. Does anyone have any tips on that and everything associated?
I’m not an emotional wreck about it……yet.
If he’s changed his mind, this changes the terms of your marriage in a big way and I would suggest talking about it in the open, with a counselor if that seems to help. He needs to know exactly how you feel about this and you need to know exactly how serious he is about the decision, with all the cards on the table. If someone is going to walk away with their vision of the marriage radically changed, it had better be after some really open communication, and a real decision about who can live with what. This is not “pressure” but clarification.
I am sorry you’re dealing with this, and I hope it goes well between you.
I agree that this changes the marriage dynamic completely. You are in a difficult place as, if neither of your feelings change, one of you may have significant regrets the rest of your life. Ultimately, we only have control over own feelings and choices.
You need to reflect on how you will feel at 50, 60, 70, 80′ …. what will you regret more … Never having children or leaving your husband to find someone interested in children.
That said, you can have a fulfilled life without having children of you own (many people do). You can find ways to mentor other children (Nieces, nephews,,children of friends, etc.). But if you will always resent your husband for putting you in the Childless category, you may need to move on before it is too late.
Well, not to sound all dire or anything, but this is why my husband and I split up. We were great together day-to-day and loved each other very much (still do, though the love has changed) but I couldn’t imagine the rest of my entire life without children. It’s a huge loss and a lot to work through. We talked the issue through about two years before I finally just *knew* in the pit of my stomach that I had to walk away from the relationship. I’m at peace with this decision. I definitely had a moment of clarity where I knew what to do. If that hasn’t happened to you yet, you’re still in this and you may take a different path. In any case, I feel for you. People are so flippant and insensitive about this topic btw (not on this blog, I mean in general). “This is why you discuss things BEFORE you marry.” We had, and he changed his mind, and so do a lot of other people, about a lot of things. And what’s he supposed to do – lie? I’ve also had others follow up my explanation of why we split with “My partner didn’t want kids either …until he met me.” Uggg. the worst. The most loving thing my husband and I ever did for each other was to let each other go. Sad, but true. Once I realized that even if I found out I had fertility problems and couldn’t have a biological child, my husband wouldn’t grieve, but I would, I knew I had to end it. I wish you lots of luck and compassion for yourself as you work through this.
Yeah, I mean, this isn’t so much about naming children, and I don’t know how long you and your partner have been together, but… it’s really up to you to decide whether or not having children is something you want and if so, then how to be with someone who also wants that (or in the alternative, deciding that you are okay with not having children.) I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sucks. <3
About honor names: I think an altered first name has about the same honor as an unaltered middle name. E.g. Noah Donald Smith and Donovan Smith honor Donald equally in my opinion.
How does one define fairness in honor names? If we ever conceive #2, we are considering an honor name for the other of my husband’s mother’s parents, and I’d prefer an honor name from my side, or at least from his other side. Obviously you can’t honor everyone, but two honorees from the same side of the same side seems a little unbalanced to me.
This is a different Brooke than June 1, 5:25 pm Brooke.
Each family dynamic is different. My parents gave all four of their kids an honor middle name and both my brothers names are honor names. They luckily has so many of the same names in their families that in using 5 names they were able to honor both of their fathers, both of their mothers, three beloved aunts, and three sisters.
I do think balance is in order although if you are using the fathers last name that is already an honor name for that side so I lean a bit in favor of honor names on the mother’s side in the those cases.
I tend to think that what matters with honor names is how it is intended. For example, I don’t think that Milo is an honor name for Michael. But if people naming their kid that think so, then that’s fine. Of course, they run the risk of the honoree not thinking that it is an honor name.
One name I am hearing a ton right now is Lincoln.
I wonder if the trend of really traditional male names (Wyatt, James, Ryan) for girls done by celebrates lately will start a trend.
Apropos of none of the thread discussions (which I enjoyed reading)
Swistle answered my letter in 2012 (I dutifully updated). In my letter I listed ‘names I can’t use due to family’. My sister, now pregnant with baby #4, came across that post by googling “what names go with” and listed her daughters names.
I think she was annoyed with me because in the letter i expressed reservation about the name Fi0n@, which I did not end up using but she did a year later. Oh well. I was amused. :-)
Swistle = awesome
Quick question for anyone to answer: Which would be your top pick of the following and why? Also, do you have nickname suggestions?
Eloise
Lydia
Frances
Alice
Big sister is Greta. One month until my due date! Kind of panicking! Thanks!
My personal favorite is Lydia, which feels elegant and ladylikecto me. But I like Alice better as a sister to Greta. I don’t know why, just a feeling.
Personal fav is Eloise, paired with Greta I also like Alice.
Eloise
I think Lydia had the same strength and spunk as Greta. I do love Alice but not as,much with Greta.
Personal favorite is Lydia, but I also love Alice and that is my favorite one paired with Greta.
Nicknames for Lydia: Lyddie, Lyddie Lou, D, Dia
Nicknames for Alice: Al, Liss, Allie
I think it’s worth noting that most of the nicknames I use for our nieces and nephews aren’t based on their names (ex. Bubba, Little Lady, Munchkin) so I wouldn’t necessarily rule out a name only because you don’t like its logical nicknames.
Thanks for the guidance everyone! We are undecided about whether we want to go in to the hospital with a list or whether we want to decide in advance. Last time we had a choice of 2 and it was a tough call and more stressful than I expected. But it’s so hard to commit! I almost wish they made you fill out the birth certificate at 36 weeks — just so you would be forced to choose at a time when you aren’t exhausted from labor.
Frances and Alice are my favorites with Greta!
We have a baby Frances and are now looking for a little sister name – and Margaret nn Greta is on the list! I love having a Frances. The reactions are always positive and we meet just the right number of other ones. Compared to the others on your list, it has so many nicknames: Frankie, Francie, Fran, Franny, and of course Fanny but that might be out. :)
Frances! I’ve loved this name for so long. So fresh and pretty, with great nickname options–Francie being my favorite!
Do you call Greta any nicknames? I like Frances and Alice best with Greta, but I don’t think you could go wrong with any on your list. I particularly like the nn Frankie for a girl. Good luck!
Nera we are naming twins! Your list is so so close to mine it’s amazing. We went with Alice and I am completely delighted with it still. I think it goes so well with Greta and it is the 150th anniversary of Alice in Wonderland so good timing. However, I don’t think you can go wrong with your shortlist in general.
In order I prefer Alice, Lydia, Frances and then Eloise
I really like Eloise and think it sounds great with Greta. To me both sounds classy but strong.
I’d be calling Eloise “Elo” all the time. And I would be tickling or kissing baby feet while saying “‘Elo, Elo, Elo, what’s all this, then?” in a terrible British accent. I am weird.
Let’s talk about the name Caitlyn! I read that whole VF article, but what I was most interested in was: how did you pick the name? Especially since it is a name from the 80’s and 90’s, so unlikely on a 60+ woman… I hope someone asks her one day. Not that I had spent any time thinking about what the new name would beer before I heard it, but now that I know it, I am curious. Yes, I am crazy!
I love that. I knew someone who went male to female. I wanted so badly to ask how she chose her name, but felt it was intrusive. If I became a man, I think I’d go with Jack or Joshua.
I also think about if I went into hiding (Andrea or Miranda because they are close enough to Amanda that I might actually answer to them) or if I needed a stage name (Amy, close enough to Amanda, yet so much shorter for signing autographs, because of course in this scenario I’m wildly famous and beloved).
I had the same thought about Caitlyn Jenner! Maybe she should’ve consulted Swistle for something more generationally appropriate. I would be very interested to hear how she chose her name. What a unique experience it would be to name yourself!
Several of the trans people I know picked names they liked that had the same first initial as their birth names. One transguy was lucky enough to have a unisex name to begin with and decided to keep it. I only know of one person who picked a name that’s unheard of for his generation (something in the key of -ayden), but I don’t know if other people comment on it or not.
I know a female-to-male trans who originally picked the name Trist@n when he transitioned, which EXPLODED with popularity about two years later. He ended up changing it because Trist@n became the wrong connotation for him and he now goes by a nickname that refers to an insect. It is tricky to pick a new name as an adult, I think!
I was interested in that too! I wondered if it had been one of her top choices for one of their K-named daughters, but maybe she only liked it spelled with a C, or maybe it was one Kris didn’t want to use.
She has a daughter named Cassandra from her first marriage, so maybe a name like Caitlyn helps her feel close to her first daughter while still having the hard C/K sound as Kendall and Kylie. I loved that she didn’t spell it with a K, but I was super intrigued by the name choice for many of the reasons people have already mentioned.
My first thought, too!
My thought was similar: The 80s and 90s was the era she was naming her daughters (Kendall and Kylie). I bet Caitlyn/Kaitlin was on the list and she sort of kept it in her thoughts of her “style” of girls name. And now she gets to use it for herself. It may be a bit surprising on a 60 year old lady, but I think it’s sweet :)
Hi,
I have two questions I’d LOVE feedback on. We have two boys: Eli and Ezra. We’ve started talking about possible names for a third and my husband keeps circling back to Elsa for a girl. I think it’s a lovely name, but my name is Anna. Is the connection to Frozen too much? I feel like we’d be setting ourselves up for a lot of Frozen references and doing a disservice to the baby. My husband thinks it’s a lovely name and the connection is cute. What do you think? (For background, we’ve always had a hard time finding girl names we both liked and both of our girl name choices during the two pregnancies – Talia and Felicity – were compromise names that never felt quiet right).
My second question is about the boy name Eben. We both love this name (and love it with our sons’ names) , but obviously don’t love the Scrooge connection or that everyone will misspell the name as Evan. What do you think of it?
Thanks!!
Anna
One tangential comment about Elsa, though it may not be a particular concern for you: to me, it sounds quite similar to Ezra and visually looks like a blend of your boys’ names.
I agree with Andrea. I would be hesitant to use Elsa not because of the Frozen reference, but because of it’s similarity to Ezra. Eli, Ezra, and Elsa feel like too close of a sibling pair.
Eben seems like it could work. I didn’t get a Scrooge vibe from it. I think your point about it being misheard as Evan is a good one, though. I would try the Starbucks test a few times and see how it wears. The nice thing is that it is short enough (and easy enough to pronounce when you have a visual) that it’s easy to say “Eben — E-B-E-N.”
I initially pronounced Eben like “Eden-with-a-B”, and personally think it sounds incomplete if it is supposed to be pronounced like the beginning of Ebenezer. But, it would be an easy correction, and I suspect I wouldn’t feel critical of the name in real life!
A similar name, which we just used for our son, is Ephraim. It is pronounced Eff-rem in English. There are alternate spellings: Ephrem and Efrem. Other languages pronounce Ephraim like Eff-ray-em, or Eff-rhy-him, which we also found pleasing. We’ve received lots of compliments, too, which was nice! Maybe you would like Ephraim with your other son’s names?
We also liked Elsa for a girl, but I would share your concerns with the Frozen association, and the earlier posters made good observations regarding similarity with Ezra. Maybe you would like Eden for a girl? I tried to get my husband on board with Eden, but he didn’t bite. ;)
Other less usual E names for girls: Esther, Edith, Eleanor/Elinor
Thank you for your feedback and suggestions, everyone. You know, I didn’t even think about how close Elsa would be to Ezra. Now it seems obvious. Thank you for pointing it out! The search for the “perfect” girl name continues, but we have plenty of time as baby #3 is still purely hypothetical. (And we are not set on using another E name, we just happened to like Eli and Ezra more than other names). As for Eben, it is one of the few names that my husband and I both loved the first time we came across it. We also like Abram, but I still have a soft spot for Eben.. Thank you again!
What about names in books? I just read a book published in 1937 and these were the major names:
Men: Colin, Philip, Everard, Noel, James, Tony, Eric
Women: Rose, Lydia, Kate
I think with the possible exception of Everard (and why not?) these could have been in a modern book. I love coming across these things.
random naming tradition for my boys: after characters in our favorite Christmas movies– Cl@rk (griswold) and George (Bailey). still searching for a good third boy name…
Charles (Brown), Kevin (McCallister), Fred (Gailey), Jacob (Marley), Joshua (Trundle)…
This is a good portion of why I play the Sims. I can name my family whatever I want with no input from anyone and be as outrageous as I want. Unfortunately this legitimizes some pretty out-there nouns to me such as Rainbow and Prism.
Names I have given my sims, in no particular order–
Nell
Seamus
Anna
Bernardo
Benicio
Bolivar
Cristobal
Min
Lola
Rachel
Jamil
Alice
Cinderella
Jasmin
Ariel
Aladdin
Rainbow
Twilight
Rarity
Apple
Barnabas
Mellisande
Clara
Finn
Elena
Mia
Mona
Nice to see a fellow Sims player :) When I named some of my sims Dorothy, Edwin, Florence and Oliver 10 years ago, I thought they were pretty out there names and not really my cup of tea. Now they’ve grown on my so much that I’d love to see them make a comeback (with the exception of Oliver which has already made a comeback and is one I’d actually use myself now).
All the talk about what works as an honor name and what doesn’t makes me want to share my story: my husband and I both have grandfathers with the same name (spelled differently). We used that name for our second son. Since I was the one who wanted to use the name the most I picked the spelling my grandfather used. Since then, my husband’s family has made it pretty clear that they do not consider that his grandfather was honored at all by the choice because we used a different spelling. Oh well.
I was surprised that Bruce Jenner chose Caitlyn as her new name. She was born in 1949 when the name Caitlyn was pretty much unknown in the USA. Kathleen was the form of it we were hearing at that time and ranked #9. It’s understandable that Bruce may have wanted to avoid joining the K-name-group of his daughters and step-daughters, but he could have chosen Cathleen — #285 in 1949, a name that a 65-year-old woman would likely have. Caitlyn didn’t enter the SSA Top 1000 names until 1983, following Caitlin which had made it into the Top 1000 in 1976. I thought Bruce might choose Brenda — #13 the year he was born and christened Bruce, #26 .
When I’ve read name change advice for adults on various baby name blogs, it has a usually been suggested to choose a name that fits with one’s generation.
I agree though I think by his/her choice, it is pretty clear that Bruce/Caitlyn didn’t read any baby naming boards.
I commented above, but my thought was that it makes sense, since Caitlyn was so popular when she was naming Kendall and Kylie. She’s probably been keeping it as a favorite name (like we all keep our faves) and now she gets to use it!
I’m a little late to the party but I have had this question forever: Many people asking questions of Swistle say they like “unique but not too out there” names. However the definition of “unique, not too out there” is all over the place. Recient letters stating the style “unique, not too out there” have mentioned that the following names: Liam, Author, Wilder, Lupin, Rhys, Sparrow, Jordyn, Elena and Tangerine. To me some of these names are NOT unique and some of them ARE out there. So what is “unique” (not in the top 100? Top 500?) And what is “too out there” (Not in the top 1000?) Also, does changing the spelling of a name make it more unique? Or if it sounds the same as a top ten name it might as well be a top ten name (e.g. Madisyn)?
BTW – I really like some of the “out there” names, I don’t see “out there” as an insult so much as it is how many people describe their style.
Interesting! I would say that I want unique, but not too out there names :P For me, the top 100 in this context would be not unique enough. Out there names, would include any creative spellings or a mixture of two names into a new one. Some “word” names would also be out there, if they weren’t typically considered a baby name too. There are names out of the top 1000 that aren’t that out there for me, given that they are real names (ex. Sylvester).
I think of it as almost a throwaway phrase: too subjective to be of much use on its own. It means “nothing we personally consider too common, but nothing we personally consider weird.” I go by other clues in the letter to see what the letter-writer means by too common/weird.
People do seem to have different opinions on “unique but not too out there.”
The names you mentioned, I would put in the following categories. However, I am sure many would categorize these differently.
Very Familiar- Liam, Jordyn, Elena
Unusual but not Unique – Wilder, Rhys
Unique – Author, Sparrow
Too out There – Tangerine
I find creative spellings of common names does not make them unique at all. Madison or Madisyn are both pretty common.
Too
Most people don’t realize the actual popularity of names… to most people, Robert is common and Liam is unique, even though if you look at actual current usage it’s not true at all.
Our last name is Cook and my husband LOVES the name James, so our middle son is James. Like James Cook, the explorer. The one whose party was massacred by the Hawaiians. We call him Jamie, and that’s what he prefers at age 4, but probably he will one day question us about that odd choice.
Also, we named our last son Frederick and boy, oh boy, there are no Fredericks, Freds, or Freddies in the world anymore, are there? Or, if there are, they are all old. I hope it doesn’t give him a complex later.
I know a baby Frederick! And loads of Eds, Eddies, Neds, etc.
Here’s an odd question, but one I’ve never seen addressed.
How soon is too soon to use an honor name, if the person is deceased?
My grandmother died, totally unexpectedly, about two months before my daughter was born. She died the same day as our baby shower. Her name was Joan, and we were very seriously considering it for our daughter. She was a special woman, and my husband and I both loved her very much.
At the time, however, the family was definitely still wading through their grief. It seemed insensitive and a little tacky to name our daughter after her, so soon after her death. It also would have linked my daughter’s birth with my grandmother’s death (in people’s minds) for the rest of her life.
We don’t regret the decision not to name her Joan (we named her Fiona instead), but I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience? How soon is too soon?
I wouldn’t think even a few days is too soon. I would think it would be healing for a family to hear the name of a recently deceased, well-loved relative on a baby.
Don’t you think the child’s birth would be permanently linked to the loved one’s death? I would think that would be disturbing to the child. Or, at least, it would have been to me.
I think it would depend on the age of the deceased and the type of honor name. If the first name is exactly the same as a young relative who died before his or her time, I think that would make the child feel weird, no matter how long ago it happened (unless it is a direct ancestor of the child). If the middle name is the honor name, or the friend/relative was old or was a direct ancestor (e.g. the new parent’s father died when they were very young and they want to name their child after the father they never knew), then I don’t think it would be awkward for the child.
Sad! I think those dates would have been a lovely link. However, Joan and Fion[a] have similarities enough! I’ve decided to name my own first daughter after my own grandma Joan by using the name Ione (I read that Joan was initially spelled Jhone in the 1500s, so close enough for me). (Maybe this should go in the “Is this an honor name?” thread.)
I think of it as the sooner the better, in some sense. I’ve heard quite a few times of parents deciding to use someone’s name because the person died during the pregnancy. It seems like a very moving tribute, and one that would help with the healing, rather than adding to the hurt.
“Linking the birth to her death” and “insensitive and tacky” are completely foreign thoughts to me for this sort of situation: that is, they’re not thoughts that occurred to me, and they don’t click into place when you say them. If, say, my grandmother died while my cousin was pregnant, and my cousin named her baby after our grandmother, I would find that wonderful: the name would remind me of OUR GRANDMOTHER, not of her death, and I would find it a very sweet tribute.
Part of it is that I am thinking of someone who is older. In those cases, even an unexpected death is not fully unexpected. I might feel differently if the person who died was, say, a teenager.
Things to name:
When I’m most down about not yet having another baby to name, I’ll play the Sims and name a bunch of babies.
I named a computer of mine Tesla, my favorite guilty pleasure name. Maybe other computers will be Hosanna and Corinthia.
my oldest son is Peter James and would have been Genevieve Mary. My younger son is Jack Anthony and would have been Grace Catherine. Sometimes I call him Gracie if he’s in the mood :)
My husband and kids’ last name is Heck with a B and it ruled out a lot of B names that I liked, like Barbara, Brian, Bridget. I also felt like I should use long first names because their last name is so short and I’m mostly glad I did but it can be more complicated to teach them how to spell them, ha! I had a boy in 2005 and promptly came up with another boy name (Augustine Thomas, nn Gus) and then I had a girl in 2008, 2009, and 2011. And there that adorable name sits, just never going to be used, which I think is such a bummer!
Random comment about honor names- as someone who is named after a relative who died tragically young, I never quite felt my name was my own. Its also very clearly a name from a different generation than mine. I like my name and pleased to have it. But, I decided to keep honor names broad (only last names of family) and as middle names for my own kids. All my kids have my husband’s last name, so the middle names are all from my side. And, since this is my chance, I love the name Phoebe! But I only had boys. I could never quite sell it to my husband. He’s of the typical male babyname persuasion, he likes cool girl names from high school :) Luckily he had good tastes in boy names!
Such a fun thread to read. Thanks, Swistle.
I have more of a confession than a question – my 9yo daughter does not like her name.
I wish I had known about the 100 year cycle of names. It turns out that a lot of my favourite names are “-een” names and were most popular around the 1940s and 50s, and are at their lowest popularity right now. My daughter hates that her name is so out of date.
FWIW I chose the name Kathleen as something uncommon but not unusual, easy to spell and pronounce. I certainly didn’t want a top 10 name. But at the same time I always hated my old lady name and didn’t want to do that to my child. I didn’t associate her name with any generation as I had never met anybody by that name before but it turns out a lot of the Kathy’s I knew were really Kathleens and not Katherines as I’d assumed.
These days she mostly goes by a nickname. I’m always feeling guilty whenever I say her name out loud, and often look through name lists asking myself “if I had to choose a name from this list, what would I choose”.
Anybody else been in this situation?
I’ve never been in that situation, but I didn’t really like my name as a kid and one of a zillion Christines, Christinas, Kristis, Kristas, etc. (Seriously, I work in an office of SEVEN people – four of us are Christine, Christina, Kristina, and Kristi). Also I found it so boring Christine Ann. There was even another Christine Ann in my class that I grew up with.
Now I’m weirdly protective of my name because it’s mine. I didn’t change my maiden name when I got married, because it’s MY name. So, I think her going by a nickname is totally fine! I know a lot of Kathleens that go by Kate, Katie or Kathy. I always thought if I were a C/Katherine or C/Kathleen I would like to go by the nickname Kat. Maybe if she doesn’t like that “Kit”. One of my female cousins is straight up named Kip (with a sister Grace!). Or maybe she prefers her middlename?
Also, those preteenagers are HARD. Maybe just keep emphasizing how much you LOVE her name, then and now might make it better (or worst, because that age is hard, but try to read how you think she would react). It’s a name you gave her because you (and your partner if you had/have one) loved it and you couldn’t wait to see your daughter Kathleen.
Good luck!
Don’t apologize for her name! Kathleen is a great name and has TONS of nickname possibilities. Sure, Kathy seems a little dated for a girl nowadays, but I love the suggestion of her going by Kat. Kate, Katie, Kath, Leena, all good nicknames. Also, Kathleen is professional so when she gets older she’ll be glad she has it for her resume.
Thanks guys, Kat is indeed the name she had chosen and it does suit her better.
Just wanted to get it off my chest, thanks for listening :)
Megz – I’d recommend not agonizing too much and giving her some time. She may grow to like her name. I think it’s pretty! I was just having a conversation with my 13 year old son Paul. It use to bug him that no other kids had his name – sharing with the bus driver wasn’t a ton of fun. Now he says he likes his name and likes being the only Paul in his school. And come to think of it my 9 year old (Mark) doesn’t like his name much right now either.
Also if your daughter continues to dislike her name she could consider using a nickname like Kate.
Whoops I see she does use a nickname