Shannon writes:
As someone who loves thinking and talking about baby names, I’ve been reading your site since long before I found out I was pregnant. I’m now due with our first child in a bit more than two months and we will not find out the baby’s sex before the birth. We settled on our most likely girl’s name without much trouble, but I’m really wrestling with a few issues associated with our top boy’s pick. Our current plan is for this baby (and the second child we hope for) to have two middle names, with my last name, which sounds like Scoreless with a C as the second one. The baby’s last name will be the same as my husband’s, which sounds like Diner but with a W (so, FirstName MiddleName Scoreless Diner). This means any full name will probably be a bit of a mouthful, but given what I imagine will be the infrequent verbalization of the full name, I’m not terribly concerned about it.
Though I’m convinced this baby will be a boy, should she turn out to be a girl we will likely use the first and middle names Delia Harlow. Both are family names on my side, and though I sort of wish Harlow weren’t climbing the charts so rapidly, I really like it in combination with Delia.
We run into a great deal more trouble when we get to names for a possible boy. Our top pick at the moment is Alden, and I have two main concerns:
1. It is but one letter away from the very popular Aiden. When said aloud I don’t imagine the two will get confused, but how likely is it that when written it will get mistaken for Aiden and [mis]corrected?
2. Ideally we’re looking for a name that is [relatively] uncommon, timeless (I want a name that was a name 100 years ago), and that will age well. In your opinion does Alden, given its “den” ending, fall into the large group of currently very popular/trendy boy’s names? I’d like to avoid someone in 30-40 years seeing his name and knowing immediately in what decade he was born.
Our other top option at the moment is Asa, which is another family name on my side. My concerns about Alden are not an issue here, but I’m having difficulty getting past the way it sounds with the baby’s last name. Though my husband is in fact Jewish by birth he’s far removed from that identity in his daily life, and he himself has a much more Christian-sounding first name. I wonder – and I am trying to say this as delicately as possible because it’s not an actual problem – about the ramifications of a child having a combination of names that sound (to my ear) very Jewish. Am I overthinking this? Does Asa again have secular connotations now the way it did 100 and 200 years ago?
Top middle name contenders are Barrett (for Alden) or Sullivan (for Asa). Other names we both like for the middle slot (but that don’t seem to work as well as the two I’ve just mentioned) are: Hayes, Heath, Holden, Penn and Flynn.
(Related question: does one of the two possible boy’s names sound like a better sibling name for a Delia?)
I really appreciate any opinions you and your readers are able to offer. My husband is of the opinion I’m overthinking all of this, which is entirely possible :)
Thanks in advance!
When I first read through your question, I read the first mention of Alden as Aiden. When I got to the part that said it was only one letter away from Aiden, I thought at first that the question was about Aidan vs. Aiden. I went back to the first mention of the name, and only then did I realize it was Alden. This is not a promising start, but was an excellent and vivid demonstration of the issue you’re describing.
My guess is that the huge popularity of Aidan/Aiden and the relatively low usage of Alden will indeed mean that Alden will frequently be mistaken for Aiden. I think it will be part of the package deal of the name: just as an Annabel needs to keep saying it’s two N’s and it’s -bel not -belle or -bella, and just as an Aidan needs to keep saying it’s -an not -en and Aidan not Hayden, an Alden will have to deal with people saying/writing Aiden. This doesn’t rule it out, any more than it rules out the names Annabel and Aidan. But it’s something that is good to think of ahead of time: every name has its downsides, and some of them will drive you more crazy than others.
I think the name may also be confused with Alton: celebrity chef Alton Brown was my first association with Alden, even though it’s not the same name. Using Alton instead of Alden might eliminate or reduce the Aiden confusion.
The -den ending doesn’t make it seem modern or trendy to me. The group of names I suspect you’re referring to is the -ayden names (Aidan, Braden, Caden, Grayden, Hayden, Jayden, etc.), and I think the long-A is important to being included in the group. Without the long-A, what we have is the category of -en names: popular, but such a broad category that they’re not as noticeable as a group. Not as dated, either: the -en category includes names such as Kristen and Jason from the 1970s, Susan and Karen from the 1950s, Stephen and Calvin from any old time, and Mason and Madison from the current top ten.
This doesn’t mean Alden couldn’t suddenly get more trendy/modern. Names such as Holden, Landon, and Camden are in style, and could become even more popular with time. In this case, however, I think they help the name Alden feel more usable and familiar. Also, the name Alden has been drifting in and out of the Top 1000 for centuries without ever getting higher than #427, while Camden and Holden are new to the list and rising rapidly.
My primary association with the name Asa is Asa Buchanan on the soap opera One Life to Live. I watched soap operas for only a brief time in my life (one college roommate watched them), and yet the association stuck.
The name Asa sounds completely secular to me: I wouldn’t make any religious assumptions about the family, any more than I do when I hear the name Noah.
If you would like my own personal opinion, I prefer the name Alden. It does have the Aiden issue, but when I look at the package deals, I prefer the package deal of Alden to the package deal of Asa. I also prefer the name Alden with the surname, and with Delia: I would prefer to avoid the repeated -a ending of Asa and Delia.
Name update!
Hi Swistle,
This naming update is terribly overdue and I’m sorry it has taken me so long to get back in touch. In the end, our daughter (daughter!) was born at the end of April. No one was more surprised than me (both by her sex, and the fact she arrived a few weeks early), and though some your commenters warned against it, we did in fact go with our first choice name pick for a girl: first name Delia, middle name Harlow, and are completely happy with our choice. I so appreciated the feedback on our potential boy names, though – especially the near-unaminous call to avoid Asa with our last name. Somehow the pitfalls of that combination hadn’t occurred to me, and it is now officially off the list should we be contemplating boy names at some point in the future. Thank goodness for such astute readers/commenters! Thanks again for posting my question, and for your help.
Best,
Shannon
I know of an Alder.
Love Alden! I wouldn’t worry about the potential for confusion with Aiden…people mistake names ALL the time, don’t let that stop you from using such a fantastic name, that you love!
I agree with Swistle and prefer Alden with Delia – such a great match.
Good luck!
One last thing…Alden Barrett ( W ) iner – how could you NOT name your son this?! Love.
I read Alden as Alden right off the bat in your letter (a good sign!), but as soon as I got to the part where you talk about the Aiden confusion, I started seeing the l in Alden as a capital i (like a typo) and couldn’t shake it. But, I wouldn’t read too much into this– I never would have got there on my own without the prompting of “Could this be confused for Aiden?”
Also, Alden sounds very old-fashioned and Colonial American to me, not trendy and not, say, of the Brayden family.
As for Asa Diner-with-a-W: yes, if I stopped to think about it, I would assume the person with that name was Jewish. But I live in a part of the country where there are many people of Jewish descent and a vibrant, active Jewish cultural scene– having a very Jewish-specific name is really mainstream here, no one thinks about it twice, and if anything it is a positive thing that might open a few more doors.
But back to the names in question: I think Alden is nicer with Delia, and a nicer name than Asa period (though I’ve never been an Asa fan at all– too many associations dating back to childhood, and I think all names starting with As- are a liability not worth taking on…)
Also this just occurred to me mid-writing but… Stop! Don’t use Asa! Think about it with your surname! Asa holds much teasing potential (it can be mispronounced, deliberately or not, Ass-a) and Diner with a W… You are already familiar with the associations there when that surname is pronounced “wee-ner”, as is the usual way (I think?). Think about the endless jokes the politian Anthony W… encountered over his surname among the public and the press. (Obviously, his actions made the association much easier but the surname did not make things better!) Asa W. has too much teasing potential. Alden all the way!
I also automatically read “Aiden” when I saw “Alden,” but like Swistle said, that could be a major annoyance, or just a minor one, depending on your personality and your feelings about the name Aiden.
However, I feel compelled to mention, having spent a great deal of time around young boys, that in elementary school, Asa Winer will become Ass Weiner. Asa is a lovely name, but to a young boy, it’s just one letter away from a hilarious joke, and combined with a last name that is also only one letter away — to me, it’s a recipe for disaster. Sure, you might raise a child who laughs those things off and doesn’t care one bit, but you also might have a child who is very upset by such a nickname. Children are cruel, and the desire to make a funny/mean nickname for everyone on the playground is strong in little kids.
Completely agree with this.
I know an Alden and didn’t even think of the likelihood of it getting mistaken for Aiden until you said it! Here’s the thing, I have learned: no matter how careful you are about picking a name, someone, someday, is going to get confused. My daughter has a hyphenated last name, and people are always assuming the second half of it is her first name, because it’s just started to get popular with girls. (K3rrig@n, if you’re interested!)
A friend just told me a story about a fellow reporter who once didn’t double check on the spelling of Tommy Smith and was horrified to find out that Thommi Smythe was pretty pissed about the mispelling! Do the best you can, and know that even John/Jon has to spell his name for people!
I love Asa myself, but I think I prefer Alden with the other names and with Delia.
I love Alden, and when it’s spoken I know how to spell it which is more important to me than the potential i/l typo.
FWIW I thought I chose a very simple to spell, pronounce, etc name for my daughter and people still mess it up all the time. I think it’s a given with any name; Asa might be pronounced without the long A just as frequently as Alden is called Aiden.
I was going to come on to give my support to Asa, but reading the other comments, I realized that they are right, the potential for some serious ribbing is very high, and so I would encourage Alden.
I didn’t misread Alden. I had a student once whose middle name was Alden and he always signed his papers with his full name and I remember thinking it sounded very distinguished at the time. I like Asa too, and usually like to see family names but i have the hesitation others have about pairing it with that surname.
I read Alden as Alden and did not think of Aiden until you mentioned it. I like Alden and I think it lends a certain sophistication to Diner.
My concern for Asa is also teasing, but I was thinking more along the lines of “Asa Diner” can sound a lot like “He’s a Diner.”
For some reason, I really like the name Scott with the surname.
I like Alden, but I have to disagree with Swistle: I find the “-den”/”-ten” names very much of-the-moment, and I do think they pinpoint the bearer in time. I wonder with her if “Alton” might not be an alternative? There’s also, if you are looking to avoid rapid climbers and high popularity, a big spike of Aldens (although the absolute numbers are still fairly low):
http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager#prefix=alden&sw=both&exact=false
Contrast the graph for Alton:
http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager#prefix=alton&sw=both&exact=true
Have you thought of Arlo? It has a nice vowel-y sound and sounds good with your last name – it is experiencing a surge of popularity, but the absolute numbers are still quite low.
I also like Asa, but as others have said, it might create cruelty opportunities together with the last name. I also wonder if you live in a part of the country where people would be cool with a little boy having a name ending in a vowel, or if it would create a lot of “I thought you were going to be a girl” problems, and if that is something that would bother your family, or not. I think of Asa (and Ezra, and Micah) as clearly masculine names, but I think this may be a regional thing that would be less clear in some places.
I initially read Alden as Aiden. I really like the name Alden, but the Aiden similarity ruins it for me. I don’t care for the -ayden subset of names and would personally find it annoying to have to think about, hear, and correct that often.
I really like the name Asa, but not with your surname. I immediately thought – He’s a Whiner.
Sorry, but I’d go back to the drawing board on this one or upgrade one of the middle names to the first-name slot. My favorites with the surname and your daughter’s name are Sullivan and Flynn.
Yes! A’s a whiner is all I thought of too!
Oops, I misread and thought you already had a daughter named Delia. And now since I’ve read the other comment about “deal, ya whiner,” that one’s screwed up for me too! Argh, sorry! I really like your taste in names, but you do have a challenging surname.
I agree about Asa and Delia and would go one step further – I’d avoid any names that begin with A altogether. I would not want my name to be A. “Whiner”. I’m sorry, because I hate to be so unsupportive of the names that you love.
I see too many problems with Alden and Asa. Have you considered Arlo?
I thought of something else. I know your question was about boy names and you feel your girl name is set in stone– but “Delia Diner-with-a-W” sounds not quite right to me. I think because “w…” is a word (whiner), and Delia sounds like “deal ya”, which can also sound word-ish, and together they sound like a phrase.
I know you love Delia, and I feel bad being a voice sowing doubts– but why not try to say her first and last name together a bunch and see if you still like it as much. I hear, “Deal, ya whiner!” :(
With your surname, I’d do my best to find the most neutral, pleasing name possible that can’t misheard with your surname.
Do you like Dalia or Dahlia? Or Talia?
Here on the coast of Maine, most of us associate the name Alden with Alden yachts, quite famous & designed by John Gale Alden, naval architect, who was born in 1884. An illustrious name! I know a couple of young boys named Alden, both of them after John Alden. I think it’s a great association, but here I am in the center of wooden boat universe.
I prefer Alden with Delia, and I’m with Swistle that in the final analysis, the package deal of Alden is preferable to the package deal of Asa.
Good luck to you!
I would prefer Alden over Asa but wanted to mention one other possible source of confusion: I grew up with a friend named Alma, whose name was pronounced AL-ma (“al” like “Albert” and “alligator”) and she frequently had to correct people who pronounced it like ALL-ma (like the word “all” and in “mall”). I could easily see the same thing happening to an Alden – it could vary regionally as well as just among individuals. I wouldn’t say it’s a huge problem – just wanted to mention it. (For what it’s worth my instinct when I read your letter was to say it “ALL-den” rather than “AL-den”.) Either way, Alden Barrett [D]iner is so lovely!
I absolutely love Alden! I didn’t even notice that it looked like Aiden until you pointed it out. I know just one Alden (he’s a very sweet 4-year-old with a sister named Helena) and his name really suits him. Go for it if you love it!
Any interest in using the variant Aldon? It has exactly the same sound as Alden (when spoken by American tongues, at least), has (in my opinion) even a slightly statelier feel, and is completely unlikely to be confused with Aiden (which Alden certainly would). I know an Aldon in elementary school and the name wears well on him!
I agree with some of the above posters that Asa is unusable from a teasing perspective. There’s the gender problem (we adults know it’s a masculine name, especially if we’re Simpsons watchers, but little kids will liken it to soundalike Ava, which they will CERTAINLY recognize as a girls’ name), the “Ass” problem, and the rarity problem (not that it’s REALLY a problem, but you mentioned you like timeless names, and timeless generally equals at least somewhat popular).
However, as a counterpoint to the issue you raised with Asa–as someone who lives in a city on the East Coast with a significant Jewish presence, I’m pretty sure I would assume any child with that surname was Jewish-descended, since I’ve never met a [D]iner who wasn’t! Which is to say, if the Jewish sound of a name makes you hesitant to use it (which of course it shouldn’t, but I’m sensitive to your point), you may be out of luck even if you choose a secular first name.
I have to say that I agree!! I way prefer Alden vs Asa. I think Alden sounds/feels more distinguished and timeless. If I heard the name Asa, I would automatically think that you would like trendy names… I think it is so uncommon that people don’t realize that it is actually an older name. I think Alden Barrett is a great name. It serves well into adulthood as well (better than I think Asa). I also think Alden goes better with Delia. AND I do not think Alden falls into the same generational feel as Aiden, Hayden, Jayden, etc. Alden feels like it’s a classic name from the 1890-1920’s generation so I wouldn’t worry about that.
I also noticed right away the potential for two mess-ups with the name Asa Winer as previously commenters have also commented.
Other options for boys:
Arlo
Alton (this pulls away from people mistaking for Aiden)
Weldon
Unfortunately, now that I read that comment about Deal, ya whiner. That’s all I hear when I say Delia Winer. Dang. What about Odelia? Or Talia or Dahlia? I personally love Odelia… Plus you can still get Delia out of it for a nn but gives the “official” name a bit more separation.
Good luck!
… but then it just sounds like Oh, deal ya whiner.
Curious if you would consider Diner Scoreless instead of Scoreless Diner? Would make the names flow much nicer imo (plus I’m very -everything doesn’t have to follow the husband/crazy feminist- lol).
I say go with Alden. My name is Janel and I often get misspelled as a Janet. It doesn’t bother me at all, in fact, I find it funny because my mother in law is Janet.
I read Alden properly and didn’t think of Aiden when I saw it.
Asa is a nice name but it’s reading a little girly to me which probably has to do with all of the Ava’s out there. I also think that Asa is one letter off from an unflattering word which would normally not be a big deal but, combined with the last name, I would rule it out. You don’t need to give elementary school aged boys any teasing ammo.
Yes to everything Katie said. My thoughts exactly!
Alden is a great name and I don’t think the Alden/Aiden similarity will be too much of a problem.
EVERYONE has their name mistaken for another or misspelled at some point and a quick correction is all it takes to set people right so they don’t do it again. No biggie!
Would also like to suggest Elden, very similar to Alden, and Harmon. Holden and Landon both sound great with Delia too.
Love the sound of Alden Hayes by the way!
Good luck!
I read Alden as you typed it. The suggestion of Aldon is great. Do you like the name Anton?
As a Jewish person with a pretty Goldman-esque maiden name: Any person with that last name will get some profiling. I would not name a baby Christopher just to avoid them. And even that might not work.
That first name, while Biblical, is not one I notice being very popular where I grew up when compared to, say, Ari, Avi, or Aaron, which are all popular. I’m not saying Asa doesn’t happen, but I wouldn’t think of it as a punchline sort of stereotype name. Abraham would be stereotypical but Asa would just be offbeat.
My only hesitation about Asa would be pronunciation issues both accidental and deliberate, and things like Ass, or “As A Whiner.”
I have been hearing more people talking about Alden and I do wonder if it will follow Camden and Holden etc. up the charts.
I really like Alan, which has a similar feel to Alden as far as classic/antique, but with a streamlined look and a certain familiarity, but I don’t know if it’s too grandpa for you? It does skip the whole -den trend nicely.
I’m a Ginny who was born in the heart of the Jennifer craze, so I’ve grown up with an analogous problem to the one little Alden would likely have. It’s not that bad: you just get used to saying, “No, actually it’s [ActualName].” And Alden won’t even have to spell his name every time he introduces himself, like I do. Like Swistle said, every name has its issues, and in my experience the “easily mistaken for a super-trendy name” is a pretty livable one. (It’s also nice in that you get an unusual name for your generation, but because of the similarity it doesn’t feel “weird” to people.)
To me Asa actually reads as more trendy than Alden. I’ve worked with a handful of preschool-aged Asas over the last few years, and never met one over age 6. If I was to guess the birth year of an Asa, I’d guess the aughts for sure: if I were to guess the birth year of an Alden, I could go for anywhere from 1950 to today.
Also I second the comments above about teasing potential: even if people don’t hit on that exact combination, Asa is a sort of wordy name (either “Ass,” Ace,” or “As a”) and I think it’s better not to pair a wordy name with a wordy surname.
Also I think Alden and Delia make a really nice pair: they’re both slightly old-fashioned but in a way that’s on-trend without being trendy, and they share a lot of letters but don’t look or sound anything alike.
I did read Alden as Aiden at first but I much prefer Alden to Asa. I have a soon to be six year old and kids are relentless when it comes to snotty little things to say. Asa Diner with a W seems to be making it all to easy for them.
As far as the ending sound being dated, I think you are thinking along these lines:
http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2007/7/where-all-boys-end-up-nowadays
http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2012/5/the-shape-of-boys-names-an-update-on-the-age-of-aidan
So your concern is not without merit but I agree with Swistle I think of the -ayden names as being more dated than say John or even your choice of Alden.
I like the suggestion of Arlo. It seems very similar in sounds to Alden but doesn’t have the -n ending if you decide to keep looking.
I know an Alden, so I read it as Alden, but it does LOOK a lot like Aiden/Aidan, what with l and i looking so similar. I think that’s okay. I prefer it with the last name as well as in the suggested sibling set, I agree with Swistle’s assessment of -ayden trendiness and that this avoids that because of the different vowel sound at the front.
Asa is also nice, but I put my vote in the Alden camp, if that’s what you’re asking.
I live in a pretty non-Jewish area of the country (to my knowledge, at least) and I’ve never heard of the name Asa. When I first read it in your letter, I thought you’d gone back to talking about your picks for a girl. Everything about it struck me as on-trend for feminine names right now. This is probably not a problem where you are but just an outsider’s point of view.
I associate Alden with trees or forests, probably because of its similarity to “aspen” and “alder”. I like it very much, even though I usually dislike all of the -den/-don/-dyn names right now. I can see that name easily on a middle aged businessman, unlike Brayden etc, possibly because of another association with “elder”.
What about Arlen? I know a 6 year old one and love the name.
My brother’s best friend is named Alden, we are all in our 30s, and I never associated Alden with Aiden until I started looking at baby names for my son a couple years ago. That being said, I just texted my brother and asked him about the Alden/Aiden thing and he said, from his 4 years working at a preschool, that Alden will get confused with Aiden when written down, but not as much when said out loud.
It may be because I knew one before the J/H/Brayden trend, but Alden has a very different feel than those names. And I agree that every name gets butchered at some point. My son’s name is Conrad and it gets confused for Connor fairly often, which I never expected.
Do people really say Deal, ya winer? I find it a strange thing to eliminate Delia over. Asa (W)iner I would not use for teasing reasons but think Alden (W)iner soulds very nice!
“When I first read through your question, I read the first mention of Alden as Aiden. When I got to the part that said it was only one letter away from Aiden, I thought at first that the question was about Aidan vs. Aiden. I went back to the first mention of the name, and only then did I realize it was Alden. ”
I did the EXACT same thing!
I recognized Alden right away, but in a different forum, where I’m not thinking of names, I can see it easily mistaken. It has a very different sound and feel though.
My association with Alden is the Alden family in the Boxcar Children books. My daughter is at the age for them now. I definitely think old gentleman, east-coast sophistication, surname, rather than trendy, fits with Hayden style.
I am surprised that there is more than one pronunciation. Can this be a poll? I say Alden to rhyme with Walden. But if I’m reading right, some say Alden with the same beginning as Albert.
I read Alden correctly the first time, and think this is a great name! I wouldn’t worry about it being confused with Aiden. Every name has the potential to be confused with another name: Justin confused for Dustin, Erin for Karen, Christina for Kristen……the list goes on and on, and there’s nothing necessarily wrong with any of these names.
I also prefer Alden with a future Delia. I prefer to avoid matching endings (in this case, -a) when possible.
However, I’m saying all this even though I love the name Asa! There’s great history to the name, being a good king of Judah, and is underused, but part of a familiar category of Biblical boy names ending in -a. I am not Jewish nor do I know many Jewish families, but I wouldn’t assume someone is because they’re named Asa. This could also be due to the fact that I know a little Asa (he’s probably about 10 years old now) and he is not Jewish.
Good luck!