W. writes:
My husband and I had our first child, a boy, at the end of the year and we named him John in honor of my grandfather. Also in honor of my grandfather we’re calling him Jack. There are just too many Johns on both sides of the family right now!
Whenever we introduce him to strangers, we just call him Jack, but to close acquaintances (co-workers that we see outside of work, friends and family) we say his name in John, but we call him Jack. This usually gets looks like we’ve grown a second head and didn’t realize it!
I know Jack is a traditional nickname for John, my husband and our families know this, but apparently other people in my generation (we’re both 30) don’t know this! Now all I can think of is when he goes to school having to explain ad nauseum to his teachers that yes, Jack really is a nickname for John and that’s what he goes by. Do you have any ideas on how to mitigate that explanation? I’ve tried looking it up online the reason why it became a nickname, but I think that just confuses things even more.
I love his full given name and I love how Jack flows with our last name (two syllables, and ends in a “ck”). Furthermore we’ve been calling him Jack since we found out we were having a boy, so ditching the nickname is not an option.
I know that not everyone is familiar with Daisy as a nickname for Margaret or with Polly as a nickname for Mary, but I thought Jack as a nickname for John was at least WIDELY known if not by every single person. Your letter is giving me pause. I think there are several possible explanations:
1. You happen, just by coincidence, to have a group of friends and co-workers who are all oblivious to this traditional nickname.
2. You’re interpreting the looks you’re getting as looks of not knowing Jack is a nickname for John, but your interpretation is incorrect.
3. I’m wrong about the general familiarity of the John/Jack connection.
If the situation is #1 (“coincidentally, your group doesn’t know”), then this will be a fast fix: you have already spread the word that his name is John and his nickname is Jack, so you’re done with your part unless someone openly remarks about it. If any of them think it’s truly weird, they will tell someone they know about it, and the person they tell will say, “Um…Jack is a traditional nickname for John,” and then they will feel kind of silly for a moment.
If the situation is #2 (“you’re misinterpreting the looks on faces”), then this will be a fast fix: There is no problem to fix. Maybe they are looking surprised because they don’t expect the name John (it’s common in older generations, but a fresh surprise on current babies), or because they wonder why you didn’t just go straight to Jack, or because they’re surprised you’d use the name John when there are so many men named John in your family, or because they were sure you were going to use a different name for some reason, or because John and/or Jack is their own choice for a future baby and now they don’t know what to do, or because they don’t know how they’re supposed to react when they hear a baby’s name (“What a great name!”). We don’t really know WHAT that face says, unless they combine it with some words. If you tell someone new and they give you that look, you can say, “Oh, hadn’t you heard of that nickname before?” if you like. That gives them the option of giving an alternate explanation for their face, though personally I don’t think I’d want to invite them to say it: they may need work on facial expressions, but they’re doing the right thing by keeping their opinions to themselves.
If the situation is #3 (“I’m wrong about how familiar people are with John/Jack”), then this will be a longer fix but still a fast one. The “longer” element is that it will occur again and again throughout his life—up to once per school year when he tells his teacher, and up to once per new acquaintance. The “fast” element is that you/he will say that the name is John and the nickname is Jack, and then you will wait for someone to make the funny look that shows they didn’t know this, and then life will continue as usual. Either someone will ask about it, in which case you’ll say in the gentle and kind voice we use when we’ve accidentally uncovered a knowledge gap in someone else and don’t want them to feel bad about it, “Oh! Er, Jack is the traditional nickname for John” (if you’re in the U.S., you can add “you know—like JFK”), or else they won’t ask about it and you have no work to do. At that point, they will either not care and never give it another thought, or they will look into it further and find that you are right. Either way: no work for you to do.
It’s hard to imagine anyone going on and on about it and needing to have it repeatedly explained to them, but such people DO exist (“I just can’t get over you using a BOY NAME for your daughter, hur hur hur!”). If such a person DOES enter your life and DOES persist in acting all confused again and again, you can bring in a name book or direct them to Wikipedia, and/or you can conclude that they’re one of those jerks who acts confused in an attempt to make you feel stupid/crazy/wrong. You can start responding with things like, “Yep, nicknames are strange, that’s for sure! Bob for Robert, Jim for James, Chuck for Charles. I’ve never understood how Meg got to be a nickname for Margaret, either” if you like, or you can start shrugging and saying, “Well, anyway, that’s his name” before changing the subject. But it doesn’t sound like this is happening to you right now.
An additional idea is to look up some celebrities named Jack, and see if any of them are named John. Jack Nicholson’s given name is John, for example, and so is Jack White’s. This can be incorporated into your “further chatty remarks” arsenal, along with things like, “Yep, nicknames are odd, aren’t they!” and “And did you know Polly was originally a nickname for Mary? Neat, huh?” and “That was my grandfather’s name/nickname, too.”
I think the etymology may be similar to how Henry became Hank (Hankin…).
My uncle Pete’s name was Clarence, but he was “Pete” to everybody — he was known as “Pistol Pete” during his collegiate basketball career (this was in the 1930’s, way before Maravich). How’d they get to Pete from Clarence? The reason was lost to time, but I bet it was an interesting story.
Point being, nicknames sometimes have an interesting story behind them, and that’s why people ask. The traditional nickname explanation with examples like Kennedy, Nicholson and Nicklaus makes for fairly interesting conversation. “We like it like that” is a perfectly reasonable explanation for your choice.
I was named John (after my father) and given the nickname Bubba before l could even talk. When I started school I refused to be called Bubba and have been John ever since. I would have been thrilled to be called Jack.
Any “official” forms he’ll put “John” as his name, and if it asks for aliases, he’ll have an answer. I’ve always been secretly envious of people who have an answer for that question.
It’s been a long while since we had a Swistle poll, so I’m hesitant to bring it up—but I’m not sure the folks who read this blog are the best sampling of the rest of the population since the entire reason we’re here is that we have a healthy interest in names, and are thus more likely than the rest of the population to know about Jack-for-John.
That being said, I DO think it’s strange that you’re getting looks about it because it’s one of those things that I, too, consider generally common knowledge. I’d be very surprised if many family trees (in English-speaking countries as a whole, but especially the US) didn’t have a John-called-Jack somewhere in recent memory. So I suspect that you may, as Swistle suggested, be interpreting such looks incorrectly—or that you happen to have a subset of friends/acquaintances who aren’t as aware as the rest of the population.
But either way, I think it is not something to be concerned about. You love his name, both the given and the nickname, and that’s the bottom line—and as Swistle said, anyone who feels this is odd should get over it very quickly.
I did realize it wouldn’t be at all a random sampling, but thought it would be comforting for her to see anyway. However, I’ve taken it down.
Boo, I wanted to take the poll. I don’t think any poll on an internet blog is going to be indicative of the population as a whole. But they can still be helpful, or just interesting, or funnn. I want more polls! Lol
There need to be more options in the poll! I did not learn about it until high school history class when we learned about JFK. So I know now, but would not have known if say, one of my elementary school classmates brought it up. :)
Can you think of a way it could have been quickly and easily explained to you, back before you knew? The letter-writer is looking for ideas about that, but it’s hard for me to answer because I don’t remember not knowing.
Me too! Exactly! This could be me writing this. I remember my AP history teacher saying “Jack” when referring to JFK and I remember being confused and asking if he was referring to a Kennedy I’d never heard of, just to be told that this was a nickname for JFK. I also remember thinking that it was very silly to have a 1-syllable nickname for a 1-syllable name.
Flash forward and we named our daughter Margaret, but call her Greta. We get the same looks as the OP.
When I was little (6 maybe?), I thought Jack Kennedy and John Kennedy were two different people. But it didn’t take long before I realized that they were both JFK. I was going to say, use JFK as a reference point for people, assuming you are in the US.
I agree with Lauren, I don’t think we are good sample set for a poll.
Just the other day, my husband and I were watching Game of Thrones and talking about Ned Stark and someone said Eddard Stark and husband says “how on earth do you get the nickname Ned from Eddard” and I said “Well it’s the same as Edward and Ted…Ted and Ned are nicknames for Edward” and he looked at me as if I had grown another head so I continued on with “Ted Kennedy’s name is Edward, you know?” He sort of nodded his head but I think he still wasn’t sold on my being right. Anyway, I think your best bet is to politely point out JFK, maybe throw in the Ted/Ned thing for Edward and Hank for Henry, Bill for William, etc. to see if that rings any bells for people.
I would have guessed Jack for John was one of the most commonly known ones though. I personally love it…we considered it for our boy as well.
I too have a John-called-Jack 1 year old and I’ve gotten some strange looks too. Even my husband (who’s name is john) had to be convinced it was a real nickname for John. I too worry about school, etc. Since we’ve run into problems with the doctor and such. I know it’s not the same for insurance purposes but it does give me pause.
Do you find your explanations are successful, when you get strange looks? Have you found a quick and easy explanation that could help the letter-writer with the similar reactions she’s getting?
I’m 30. It wasn’t until I was in middle school or early high school that I learned that Jack was a nick name for John. Perhaps due to the smaller number of babies being named John you’ll need to explain John nick named Jack, but you’re helping keep another generation in the loop. I don’t think most people are going to give much thought to the name/nick name.
I’ve always known Jack was a nickname for John. The JFK thing made it pretty obvious to me growing up. Though, I am older than the group you seem to be having problems with, so maybe it’s just one of those weird generational gaps? It could also be in part because these days, people are so used to Jack being a stand alone name. Once upon a time, I imagine a just Jack would’ve gotten the reaction “But that’s a nickname? Don’t you want something stronger/more traditional/more adult as his given name?”
For people you know who can’t seem to get over it, I’d suggest you direct them to behindthename.com it offers an accurate & fairly simple explanation. http://www.behindthename.com/name/jack
As for the school thing, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. All the school enrollment forms I’ve ever heard of have a place for “name called.” Just write Jack there & carry on. Trust me, it won’t cause a lot of confusion that needs to be explained. There are lots of kids with nicknames that truly don’t have any connection to their given name. Most teachers don’t know or care how it came about, so long as they know what your kid will answer to.
Yes, our elementary school has that spot on the form too, where you can write his full name in the given name slot and then “Jack” in the “Name to be called” section. I have friends who have done that: an Elizabeth who goes by Lizzie only. So then the school just uses the name you write down on all paperwork in class. :)
I’ve always known about the John/Jack thing, but that might be because my grandfather (John William) was called Jack.
I’m 28 and I think it’s #3. Our generation, for whatever reason, isn’t as familiar with Jack as a nickname for John. Like several other commenters I only learned that in high school in the context of JFK. You will likely have to explain it now and again, but you (and later Jack) will get used to it. I’m writing as a Maria who has gone by Mia for my entire life. The nn is based on my childhood pronunciation of my name, but I learned later on that it’s actually a common nn for Maria in some languages. For me (and likely for Jack) since my nn is used more than my full name I rarely need to explain it to anyone. Most people assume it’s my full name and if I need to I can explain the nn. It might seem like you’re having to explain it a lot now since Jack (and your naming decision) is so new, but with friends and family in the loop you won’t need to explain it to every new person he meets unless that’s your preference. Congratulations on baby Jack!
My (German) grandmother was named Maria and I didn’t realize till I spent time with her family in Germany that she was always called Mia. :) I love it!
Also, I think that former nicknames like Mia and Jack are being used so often as given names by our generation (I am 30) that they will become even less associated with Maria and John in the future.
As someone with a nickname that needs to be explained, you’re in the perfect position to help the letter-writer with her question about how to explain the nickname that some people don’t realize is traditional. Have you found a way to quickly explain your own name/nickname to people, in a way that makes them stop looking at you funny?
I can’t say I specifically knew Jack was a standard nickne for John, but I’m not surprised given the generation it comes from. My Nanny’s given name was Dorothy and she went by Peggy her whole life.
I also didn’t know JFK went by Jack… But I’m Canadian so I guess that excuse it.
I have a John-called-Jack that is 8 and it has never been an issue at school or anywhere else. We also had people ask why we call him Jack when his name is John, but I usually refer to JFK as an example and they then ‘get it’. Don’t stress over this, I think you’ll find that it is a non-issue. Also, my son thinks it is cool that he has a ‘secret’ name and that when people ask for his full name he gets to say ‘John Patrick’.
I agree that there’s some aspects of 3 in here as well (I’m 33). I’m somewhat familiar with the John/Jack connection but might be a little surprised or thrown for a second by hearing it on a kid. I also think that while polls are fun and interesting, there’s definitely some selection bias happening with this one — those who read a naming blog are probably much more interested in name trivia like this and remember it!
I’m not even half way through my 20s & I’ve known Jack is a classic nn for John ever since I can remember.
If people are giving you looks, you should look at them like *they’re* crazy for not knowing.
Yes. THEY are the crazy ones! I have a dear friend who named her son Jacob to get Jack… she wanted a proper name not just a nickname. Jacob had no connection for her, she thought it made the most sense to get the name Jack. I said to her, “why didn’t you name him John, then?”. She looked at me like I was positively NUTS. I don’t even have any relatives or anything that are John/Jack. But yet, I knew. People just don’t pay attention. It annoys me when the other people are the ignorant ones, yet still make ME feel like I’m the crazy one. Sheesh.
We’re getting just the opposite: our grandson is named John and exclusively called John, yet our friends are puzzled he’s not being called Jack, I think because this is the current trend with boys named John. So our daughter is bucking the current trend. But, she’s in Switzerland, where Jack would be pronounced “Yawk” so she didn’t entertain the Jack notion very long if at all…..
While I agree that this is a very common nickname-name combo, in the end, it doesn’t matter if his name were John and you called him Tallulah. His nickname is his nickname and even if people think it’s a bizarre choice, it’s not theirs.
I don’t think you need to worry about school so much. Kids generally just take things at face value, so if he introduces himself as Jack that is what they will call him. Then it will just be normal, even when he becomes older! And who knows, maybe he’ll end up being responsible for other kids not getting the funny, ignorant faces in response!
I have to believe this is widely known, and it is options 1 or 2.
I feel like even Daisy and Polly are somewhat GENERALLY known.
I had no idea about Daisy/Peggy/Polly until I started reading this blog :)
I’m 41 and I didn’t know any of the following things:
1) that Jack is a nickname for John
2) that Daisy is a nickname for Margaret
3) that Polly is a nickname for Mary
4) that Hank is a nickname for Henry
5) that Peggy is a nickname for Margaret
6) that Maisie is a nickname for Margaret
I’m well read and highly educated, but now I feel as though all those science classes maaaaay have caused me to miss out on important information about the world in general.
The letter-writer asks how she could explain it easily to someone who didn’t know. Since you didn’t know, you’re an excellent one to answer this question: If someone announced a baby named John-nicknamed-Jack to you, and you had a look on your face like you didn’t get the connection, how could the new mother best explain it to you?
I think that Jack for John is common knowledge though it might be less known than in previous generations. Some people will never understand the concept of a nick name-I’ve had people in my life not realize/believe that my nick name Katie was short for Kathleen (which isn’t a super complicated concept). If anyone ever mentions it I would just look bemused and say something like “oh, it’s the usual nick name for John- like JFK. Didn’t you know that?”
Just a note that on the TV show 30 Rock, the main character is called Jack but his real name is John- this comes up all of the time in the show.
My nephew is named Jack. Not John. I was puzzled. I held my tongue (because he was already named, and it would not have made any difference), but I wanted to ask my sister-in-law why they didn’t name him John with the nickname of Jack. In my world, Jack is a nickname, not a proper name. But I guess people are naming their kids Jack now, and also Jackson, so people think Jack is only a nickname for Jackson.
People are resistant to nicknames if they aren’t the ‘right ones’ in my experience.
I have an Eleanor and a Penelope. People expect them to answer to Ellie/Ella and penny. They answer to Norah and Nellie and variations on them. I’ve had people be quite rude about it.
It’s their problem, not mine. I correct them and then I move on.
I was surprised by this after naming my son john/Jack in 2008. I assumed it was a simple, obvious name, but most people I run across don’t know it. I’ve had people ask if he’s “really Jack or Jackson”, and then I have to explain he’s John. They look confused, Irespond, “Jack is a traditional nickname for John – like JFK.” Most accept it, others argue. I’ve had people ask if his name is John Jack H—–. It’s at least a monthly issue.
After having a vaguely annoying name, I was happy to give my child a simple one. And I’m shocked (and annoyed!) by the confusion.
FWIW, I’m in Florida, mainly dealing with people around 30.
And if anyone is considering “Isaac”, prepare yourself for the number of people who pronounce it I-Zay-Ick. Sigh.
I’m 29 and John/Jack was just so uncommon in our generation I don’t think everyone knows about it. I was in my 20s when I gave someone the two-heads look over the whole thing (she was telling me about someone else’s child, so it wasn’t to a parent’s face). I certainly knew JFK was sometimes called Jack, but thought it was one of those one-off things where someone has an unrelated nickname.
Again, it’s all if you were exposed to it or not – my dad’s name is William and he goes by Bill so I think everyone should know about that nickname. But they don’t. Acting as if people are just ignorant and/or stupid is not necessary. (Not that that’s what either you, Swistle, or the original poster did!!)
Is it possible to broaden the catergory of people to whom you introduce your son as “Jack” instead of “John but we call him Jack?” Middling acquaintances might be giving you a blank stare because they don’t care what the name on his birth certificate is, but just want to know what to call him.
I have a dear friend who has an 8-yr-old Henry who is nicknamed Hank. She only introduces him as Hank unless the circumstances require his official name. It’s a big time and aggravation saver.
This was my exact thought too, that I wonder if people aren’t confused by hearing “x goes by y” when they were expecting to hear just a name. So their brains are catching up to what the answer actually is.
I agree with perhaps just saying “this is Jack”. Very few people need to know it is John goes by Jack.
FWIW, I know of Jack as a nickname for John, and feel like I always have, but also feel like Jack is a standalone name, not always a nickname.
I’m going to have to ask my hubby if he knows Jack is a nn for John. When we were dating we were friends with a priest who was a John nn Jack but that doesn’t mean hubby caught on. He looked at me strangely when I said Sally was a nn for Sarah.
Okay, hubby knew! Which in my mind means the non-name nerd population at large has a good chance of knowing. He mentioned that he knew because in some movie there was a character who referred to Jack Daniels as John Daniels because they were such good friends.
I’m 31, a self proclaimed name hobbyist, and didn’t know Jack was a nn for John until I read it on this site a year or so ago. I also didn’t know about Polly/Peggy/Daisy and the like until I was trolling Nameberry last night for an unrelated name search. Maybe I am not the name hobbyist I thought I was.
I agree with an earlier commenter about Tallulah. It’s your kid. You can call him what you want.
I live in Australia and I had absolutely no idea that Jack was a nickname for John.
As far as I was concerned, John was John and Jack was Jack.
I would never have seen a direct link between them.
I had no idea about the Daisy/Margaret and Polly/Mary thing either…
The letter-writer asks how she can easily explain it to people who don’t know. Since you’re someone who didn’t know, you’re perfectly positioned to answer that question: how could a co-worker have explained it to you, if she’d announced her son was John nicknamed Jack, and you were giving her a look like you didn’t understand the connection?
I know that this is an old post but I just wanted to say that John/Jack is an established thing in Australia! There is a generational gap about people using nicknames as full names which never used to happen but if people look in their family tree I’m sure they will find an example of John/Jack. Polly/Peggy are also well established nn for Mary and Margaret here (I have a great aunt Peg).
A couple of years ago I came across a new mum who had called her son Jim. She didn’t understand why people kept asking if his name was James! I can excuse people from non-English speaking backgrounds but for everyone else it is really strange – didn’t people hear nursery rhymes growing up???? I feel really sad that people obviously don’t read any of the classics or books on history.
I’m 29 and knew that Jack was a nickname for John, but only because I love names and because there’s a family anecdote about it. (There are several men named John in my family, none of whom has ever been called Jack, and then my cousin named her son Jack and everyone got talking about how Jack’s name was a bit of a throwback to all the Johns. This would have been about nine years ago.) I think part of my age group’s unfamiliarity with the John-Jack connection could be attributed to the popularity of Jonathan in our generation – at least in my case, I grew up with far more Jonathans nicknamed Jon or Jonny than actual Johns. It was more like Jo(h)n was the nickname. With Jack having being much more popular for the last several years I’m surprised that people seem so unfamiliar with the John-Jack connection. I agree with Katybug’s suggestion that you expand the circle of people that only get introduced to him as Jack – most people who have to deal with official names vs nicknames professionally (like in government offices and schools that see a lot of official forms) are probably familiar with John/Jack, and I would imagine it would be easier to just have most people know him as Jack if that’s all he gets called.
I’m 48.
I feel like I’ve always known Jack was a nickname for John, although I don’t know exactly when I learned it! Maybe when I learned why Jack was such a common name in nursery rhymes.
I thought Peggy for Margaret was common knowledge too, although there are many women just named Peggy, not Margaret.
I think many people are unaware of Daisy for Margaret (I may have learned this from reading Little Women, or maybe it was from name books), Maisie for Margaret and Polly for Mary, and perhaps Hank for Henry.
I have had Johns in my family but they were just called John. I think Jack and John are both great names.
HI! I I live in Australia and (unlike a previous commenter) I have always known that Jack is a nickname for John. And I have also known that Jack is quite legitimately a standalone name. But perhaps I knew that because I have always been a fan of JFK. In fact, I named my own son Jack (he is now 3) in honor of JFK. And yes, Jack is the name listed on his birth certificate.
Regardless, I think it is immaterial whether people know that this is a standard nickname or not. As far as every one else is concerned, the name that your son goes by is Jack. End of story. Why should you have to explain anything at all?
I’m 33 & I feel like John for Jack is obvious. I’d be shocked too if someone didn’t know. I also knew Polly, Daisy, Meg, Hank, Ted (another Kennedy hello!). Sorry you are dealing with weird looks on a classic seemingly non-issue name.
Those of you saying you had no idea Jack was a nickname for John could be very helpful here: the letter-writer asks how she can explain it to people who don’t know. Can you think of a way that would have quickly and easily explained it to you, in a situation where, say, a co-worker was telling you her new son’s name/nickname?
To Swistle’s question …
Q: How could a co-worker have explained it to you, if she’d announced her son was John nicknamed Jack?
A: She could have explained it like this:
“His name is “xx” but his nickname is “yy”. ”
Does it matter if you want to call him Jack but his name is something totally different?
Surely not.
People may ask why he has a different nickname. So you tell them the story, they say “oh how nice” and they go on their way. surely there is no more explanation needed?
We have a baby called Jack but named John and we have definitely encountered people who aren’t familiar with the tradition of the nickname. I have been using JFK as an example, but it doesn’t seem to work as well with younger people as it perhaps would work with older people. So I fear that I can’t really answer the question, but I am sympathetic!
I only became aware of the Jack for John thing when I was teenager-ish, due to learning more about JFK in school (I’m 30 now). I just asked my husband if he was aware of it, and he said no, and accepted the explanation that it’s traditionally a nickname for John, just like JFK, without finding it weird or needing further information. I can’t imagine someone needing more explanation than that!
Usually, “it’s the traditional nickname for Jack” would be enough.
If someone is more curious, and really does want to hear more of an explanation than Jack is a traditional nickname for John, I would give them the history of its origin from Jankin and Jenkin (medieval diminutives of John), which became Jakin, then Jack. (I think the OP mentioned this). If I heard that a nickname was a traditional nickname for ____ name, and it was not obvious how that came about, I’d want to know.
I’m not sure there is any better short hand example than, “you know, like JFK.” If people don’t know, they don’t know. And at that point, you may want to save yourself some pain and not worry about convincing them of the legitimacy-rooted-in-history nature of your nickname choice. What’s more important, that they understand traditional nicknames for John and believe in the accuracy of your choice, or that they simply call your son Jack? In my experience, people don’t enjoy being told that they are wrong or that they don’t know something. Well, most people. Some might enjoy learning something new. (“Hmmm. Didn’t know that. Cool.”) Good luck! Don’t sweat it! Great name!
I think the JFK example is the best way to explain it to someone who isn’t familiar with the nickname. Hopefully that satisfies them. If they have more to say or ask, then just direct them to Swistle’s site =)
Sidenote: my nephew’s given name is Jack, and my mother-in-law just could not wrap her head around that (she has an adult son John Paul nicknamed Jack). She kept asking what my nephew Jack’s “real name” was and it took forever for her to realize that his legal name was indeed Jack.
Seems like this is being overthought. Why not just say “Jack is the traditional nickname for John” and leave it at that?
1/3 of the people will believe you right off the bat, another 1/3 will Google it to verify in their minds your idiocy, but realize that they are in fact in error, and the last 1/3 won’t give a hoot.
:)
I have a John-called-Jack and when he was little people would give us eyebrows sometimes. Even close family members. They would ask, “well, why didn’t you just name him Jack?” For us, John is an honor name and we prefer the nn Jack. The John for whom he is named also doesn’t go by John (but not Jack) and we liked that they were similar in that regard. We also would point out John/Jack Kennedy as our biggest example. People generally don’t ask/question it anymore (he is 10), so my guess is that people only comment on the naming of a person when they are a baby, At this point people just go along with it.
Thanks everybody for their remarks (and Swistle for posting this!). My biggest concern that prompted me to write was a recently post partum case of name concern. Since Jack is not even three months old, many people that we talk to like to hear what his full name is. In the future, I sincerely doubt that we would be introducing him as “John but we call him Jack” as often as we do currently. When he starts school, hopefully there will be a block on the forms so that the teachers and admin know that he goes by Jack. Otherwise we’ll just make sure he knows to listen for either John or Jack with our last name.
I’m 21 and although my great uncle who my nanan speaks a lot of was a John called jack, born early 1900’s, I still don’t understand… Its the fact that us younger generations haven’t been taught why or the history of the name… All I think is ‘why jack? Jack and John are the same amount of letter and same syllables but different’ I just don’t understand it, not saying its wrong but id really like someone to explain it to me cause i cant find an explaination anywhere and am soo confused.
And reading other comments further up, this whole penny Mary, Dorothy Margaret thing just seems sooo silly just cause it seems like with those names that someones just made it up on the spot, but yeah could someone please explain the John jack thing please!
My name is John, but I’ve been called Jack (ie) since birth. That’s 76 years. If there was ever a problem, it was cleared early because I was Jack all through school. I got my SSN at 12 under Jack. At 16 the DMV required my birth name, but allowed my signature as Jack. All of my insurance is under John (Jack). My military service was under John. HOWEVER, since 9/11I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been pulled out of line by the TSA for attempting to fly under an alias! Jack Kennedy doesn’t work – most don’t even know who John Kennedy was?! So, today I fly as John and use my passport as verification.
My 85yo father was named after his father John, and called Jack. I am a maternity nurse and love the simple names. More old fashion nn..Bud for William, Gene for Eugene, Peggy for Margaret, Dolly for Bernadette, Larry for Lawrence…I do not think this last one is a typical nn…I believe this came from being called “baby doll” and Dolly stuck! My husband is a William, goes by Bill and never knew Liam is a derivative or nn of William!
I have a boy due in July, we are already having the same issue when sharing his name. I’ve come to expect anyone under 60 to act like I am crazy. The easiest way I’ve found to give them their “ah ha!” is to simply say, “Yes, Jack is a nickname for John. That is why JFK was frequently referred to as Jack.” and for the people who apparently have little knowledge of history and still look at me like i’m speaking Greek, I add “Jack Nicholson’s name is actually John.”
Interestingly enough, I found this page by asking Google, “Why is JFK sometimes referred to as Jack?”
I am a 53 year old woman from the mid west, transplanted twice in life. At age 5 we moved south to Florida & at 16, west to Arizona. I’m not sure why some know about the ‘John with Jack as a nickname’ phenom, but doubt generation has much to do with it. Maybe exposure is the answer. I wondered all of my life (up until yesterday when I asked my husband) why JFK was referred to as Jack when his name was clearly John Fitzgerald Kennedy. My comment to my husband’s answer was, “oh & people use Jack as a nickname because it’s so much shorter & easier than John.” lol
You see, I’ve always thought nicknames were born for one of two reasons:
1) to shorten a longer and/or more complicated name. For example Joanna is called Jo or JoJo; Meghan – Meg; Elizabeth -Liz; and so on.
2) A nickname is given and there is a story behind it. For example, a recent new hire at a family member’s company is a 40 tear old man who is the size if and has the appearance of a 14 year old. They call him Doogie (as in Howzer, MD from TV); another has many of the traits of a cartoon character and coworkers began calling him Baby Huey; and so on.
My own family nickname makes little sense without its story. My name is Mary Elizabeth as a first name with no middle name. Much to my mother’s chagrin, I fill out all form fields asking for name (last, first & middle) with XXX, Mary, Elizabeth. I introduce myself as Mary.
However, my sister, Mother, cousins, Aunt & friends who have known me for a lifetime call me Missy. The reason for this began before I even started school. My Daddy called me Liz, simply to shorten Mary Elizabeth. This would occasionally morph into Lizzy. Back in an age where being a homosexual was taboo, my Mother was mortified at the thought of class mates hearing my Dad call me Lizzy, thereby giving them a way to tease my by calling me Lezzie. Lezzie as in some of the bully names of the day like “Lesbo” – a name mean girls would call someone that was a Tomboy or truly was a lesbian (something folks back then doubted a child could know about themselves). She hollered at him every time she heard him use it.
I had a brother almost 10 years my senior and have a sister 6 years older than me. Riding herd on or fetching me at various times (such as dinner) fell to my siblings. My mother would tell one of them, “go get the ‘Little Miss’ and they’d run off to drag me to my Mom. This morphed into her (or a bossy older sister, jealous of the family baby) starting many a sentence, order or lecture toward me with, “Listen Missy”, and the nickname was born.
Perhaps it was this long explanation that caused me to tell people I’d meet as a young woman that my name was Mary. That or the fact that in those days, “Missy” was a very common name for a dog. I didn’t like hearing people whistle & call, “Missy! Missy! Get out of the trash, or Missy! Down girl”. LOL
Today only older family members call me Missy. My husband, children and grand children all use Mary when not using Mom or Grandma.
Probably being the youngest person here, I didn’t learn this until I had an instructor in college who had John on the schedule, but introduced himself as Jack. Going on what Mary said, there’s a third reason for nicknames, disambiguation. If a name becomes too common, then it becomes hard to understand who you’re talking about without resorting to last names. I agree that Jack is an acceptable stand-alone name, citing the fact that it has separate connotations to John. John has a biblical connection and meaning derived from Hebrew. Jack, however, has its meaning taken from the history of the English language. It’s the parallel to Jill, names that mean nothing more than the gender of the person bearing the name.
My name is John but I have gone by Jack and Jackie since I was a babie. I am 51 now and am still amazed at how many people do not know Jack is the nickname for John. Cashing a check to Jack or getting into something where I am registered as Jack always amazes me that people don’t know it. I am not talking about just young people either. I always say jfk was Jack Kennedy and they kinda get it….not sure why Jack is “short” for John but I have lived it. It actually feels weird when someone who only sees my drivers license / id (bank teller) calls me John …… Just sayin….. Lol
I’m the mom of a 12-week-old Jack-who-is-legally-named-John. The confusion started right away… one of the nurses at the hospital said “oh, that’s different!” LOL! In the future I will tell people “Jack is an old-school nickname for John” and maybe mention a few famous Jack/Johns. Jack Nicholson’s name is John, and so is Jack White of the White Stripes.