Tracy writes:
I’m wondering if you can help settle an ongoing point of contention between my dear husband and myself. You see, we have been struggling with infertility for years now, and though we remain optimistic throughout our treatments, it’s been a trying process. One thing that never wavers, however, is my absolute madness for talking baby names.
It always starts in the car. We’ll be driving along, and knowing that I have a captive audience, I’ll casually bring up a name I’ve been tossing around in my head in recent weeks. He will, of course, as the husbands tend to do, veto my every thought.
Ugh. Men.
Anyway, these conversations always come back to one name. My favorite baby girl name is Violet. I’ve loved it for years, and it reminds me of my grandmother who passed away many years ago. One of my first memories of her was walking in the woods picking the tiny purple flowers and being so proud of the itty bitty bouquet I had put together. We were very close.
My grandmother was named Ruby, but my brother named his firstborn girl directly after her, so that association is firmly in place, and that name is off the table. I like that Violet is a subtle connection to her, and a sweet, vintage name to boot. Plus, I think that Violet and Ruby would make a stellar set of cousins!
The problem is this: Our last name is White, and my husband feels that the Color Firstname Color Lastname combination is comical somehow.
I, for one, do not find it displeasing or funny in the least, but I’m trying to gauge where others are on this matter. When I hear the name Violet White, I think of the flower first, and the very common last name second. She could be Violet Smith, for all that connection is worth to me.
For him, it’s a no-go because he doesn’t want said imaginary girl-child to be made fun of. I say, she will be Violet to her school friends, or even Violet W. in a big class with a name that’s on the rise. I don’t see the issue.
Plus, she may get married and change that name someday! What if she marries someone with the last name Rose? Can we prevent that? Should we refrain from naming her Georgia in case she might marry someone with the last name Brown one day?
It goes on like this… Much huffing and eye-rolling, and then “Fine. We won’t talk about it anymore.” You get the picture.
So my question is this: Not necessarily just in my case, but in general, is the color issue too much for people to accept, both with Violet White, and with other color names? Scarlet, Indigo, Jade, Grey, Rose, Saffron… Are these all off-limits to we of the color-surnames as well?
Please help us settle this, Swistle. You’re our only hope! :)
There is a significant difference between giving a child an amusing name, and the slim future possibility of a child marrying into an amusing name. The difference is that in the former situation, she has a 100% chance of having the name, and it was fully preventable; in the latter situation, she has a very tiny chance of having the amusing name, and there’s no practical way for you to avoid it.
With Violet White, I immediately see the two colors—even though I usually think of Violet as a flower name, not a color name. But I don’t think it would be a disaster to use it: at most, it seems like it would cause mild amusement, but not severe mocking. I’m trying to imagine what kind of teasing could come from it, and I’m coming up with very little. “You have two colors as names, nyah nyah”? “In today’s outfit, you’re more like Pink Yellow har har”?
If I put it to the “Would I want this name as my own?” test, I do feel weary at the idea of constantly having to respond to people noticing it. But on the other hand there would be some upsides: it makes for a very pretty and memorable name, and it seems like it might be fun to have, and it also seems like it might be fun to play it up with room decor in those colors.
It sounds to me as if the real deal-breaker here is that your husband finds the combination comical. We could take a vote, and we could have near-100% agreement that it was NOT comical, and he would still find it comical. So explaining to him that it shouldn’t be comical, or that it isn’t comical to you/us, isn’t going to change anything. I think this means yes, in your family, color first names will be out—but that doesn’t mean they have to be out for everyone.
It helps when the name is not ONLY a color. For example, I would have to clench my teeth to say that Grey White was a fine name and there was nothing wrong with using it. But Ruby White and Rose White are much less of a problem, because rubies are also gemstones and roses are also flowers—and in fact I think of them FIRST as gemstones/flowers, and notice them as colors only when they’re sitting next to another color.
If Violet were your grandmother’s name, I would be more inclined to fight for this. Because it’s a noun that connects to one of many happy memories, I’m more inclined to suggest that you find another word or name (her maiden name? her middle name? her mother’s name?) that reminds you of her, or perhaps you could use Violet or Ruby as the middle name.
Even though I don’t think it will sway your husband, I do think it would be fun to have a poll:
Would Viola White be a possible compromise? Technically a different kind of flower than the ones you picked with your grandmother, but definitely a flower and not a color.
Or maybe you’d like Josephine nicknamed Posey…cute and sentimental for you, but also solid and whimsy free for him & the roll call at school.
I read it as flower plus colour and then flower plus common last name. Same with Ruby White. Gem and colour or gem and common last name. It wouldn’t bother me personally unless it was just a colour that was not associated with anything else like blue or purple, which people don’t use as names anyways.
Good luck and hopefully you get to use it one day!
I think it is less of an issue for me because there is not a crayola called Violet White. If your last name was Red, I’d immediately think it was too many colors. I feel the same about Kelly Green.
However, I don’t find it comical. I would, for example, if your last name was Blue and you named her Aqua or Turquoise. I think that since Violet is a recognizable name outside of being a color, it’s fine, especially with the connection to family.
As swistle said though, none of this is likely to change your husband’s mind.
I actually HAD a friend named Violet White and I loved, loved, loved her name. It’s classic and easy pronounce and memorable in a good way. I love the name.
I more associate Violet with a flower than a color. I work in the bridal industry and deal with people talking about colors all day long and I rarely hear someone say violet. I feel like as a color name, it’s just not that commonly used.
I grew up with a two color name (Amber Brown) and couldn’t wait to change it when I got married. I wasn’t teased badly – just the odd snigger really- but it kind of made me feel like I was a bit of a joke. Paula Danzinger didn’t help with her book “Amber Brown is Not a Crayon” which came out when I was about 9 and was about a little girl with the same name as me!
I think Violet White is a sweet, memorable name. I would love to have it myself, but my tastes tend to be a bit on the whimsical side. I also think of the flower before the colour, which helps. I can imagine someone noticing the connection, but teasing? I doubt it. I think names like Violet, Lily and Rose are becoming more common for their flower associations alone. And a comfortably familiar name like Violet would probably not be an easy target for playground taunting.
I think it’s going to come down to your husband on this one. Is he being stubborn just because he think she’ll get teased or are there other reasons that this argument is ongoing? My husband gave me a heck of a time over the name Evelina (it sounded like Thumbelina, it would be a burden for a child to have such a long, fanciful name, there weren’t any nicknames he liked etc. etc.) and then one day he turned around and suggested Eleanora. Pronounced Ellie-annora. And I gave him heck right back because that’s how we operate ;) The moral of the story is, does he like the name if not for blank or is he really just hiding his dislike under a kind of flimsy argument? Because that would be somewhere to start. I think Viola might be a good compromise name if he’s willing. It’s not a colour but it is the genus of the flower. I like the suggestion of Posey, a small bouquet, as a nickname for Josephine. BUT at the end of the day I find no problem with Violet White! Best of luck, I hope our input helps!
I think of Violet as a name, then a flower, then a color. I wanted a choice in the poll to say that yes, I would have noticed the two colors but I would still like the name!
Same! I would notice it, but think it’s no big deal.
You’re right! I’ve added it!
Violet White makes me think of Lavender Brown from the Harry Potter series. I can’t decide if that’s good or bad.
haha, I never realized that her name was two colors … Lavender Brown .. huh, it is!
I’ve always loved Lavender Brown’s name. I’ve been trying to convince my SO to use Lavender.
I’m in the “no two color names” camp. I’m generally on the side of not making girls’ names too precious.
I love Violet, but I think it’s silly together, and I’m sorry to say it. Maybe Viola?
As soon as I saw this question, I exclaimed to my husband that I could have written this exact dilemma! Our last name is Green and we have also gone through fertility treatments. Wow. I, too, love color names so I’m so glad you asked this question and Swistle posted it. It’s definitely helpful to others. Thank you!
My husband has had his last name his whole life, obviously. I just asked him and he doesn’t think it’s a big deal. In you like it, use it, in his words :-) I agree. I would hesitate, and think it through completely, acknowledging the potential issues, and I’m not totally sure I myself would use it, but in the end, I do not think it a comical name. I think it a vintage name, then a flower, and a color last. Same with Ruby. I do agree that something like Grey or Blu(e) would not work.
It’s such a pretty name, and either way, I truly hope you have success and can seriously decide whether or not to use Violet :-)
I’m also in the same boat! I love love love colour names but my partner’s last name is White. I love the name Grady (Grey) and if we’re ever lucky enough to have a little girl I want to call her Alba Blue. I know these names don’t work with the last name White but I also really don’t want to give them up. I feel your pain!
I love it. I don’t normally think of the name “Violet” as a color, but rather a flower. I would use it!
I think of Violet as a flower first (name second, color third, for what it’s worth). Like you, when seeing White in the last name slot, think of it as just a common last name and don’t think about the color right off the bat. I think Violet White is a sweet name, but I just asked my husband though and he thinks it’s weird, for what that’s worth.
I agree that it seems lovely for the middle name slot, since your husband is unlikely to change his mind completely.
I think Violet White works fine together. If anything, I think it’s a little too much “T” sound with both names ending in that same sound. But I don’t think that the ending sound or them both being colours are dealbreakers.
My husband and I had a hard time agreeing on our first child’s name. In the end, after she was born he said I could pick whatever I wanted, since he’d just seen me go through hours of labour. Now I wouldn’t rely on that happening with your husband, but perhaps he’ll change his mind and warm to Violet one day. I do hope you’ll get to use the name in the middle spot, if not in the first place.
I had the same thought about the T sounds.
Are you sure your husband doesn’t know my husband?!?! Lol. I love the name. It is perfect, and you should use it. I love the way the initials VW make a chevron type of print. I’m already envisioning the nursery! Maybe it will grow on him.
So I read the first part and was sounding out Violet with different color names before I got to the “White” name reveal. Violet Brown and Violet Green(e) I thought were strange. Violet Black I thought was ok. White didn’t even cross my mind, I didn’t read it as two color names, even given that topic. I like it. I also love the Posey suggestion.
Could you hyphenate it to separate the two colors? Something like Violet-Marie White? Violet-Mary? Violet-Louise?
It’s funny, while I was reading the first part of the post, my mind was also going “violet is a flower, more than a color” and I was going to say that the color association wasn’t strong for me at all. But then I got to Violet White and somehow my mind immediately clicked and went to the colors white and violet. Weird. Maybe it’s because those are the colours of a pretty popular football club where I’m from?
Since your husband is vehemently against, I’d look for alternatives. According to the flower experts, Violas (sweet violets) and Pansies are part of the violet family. And, in fact, the genus for Violet is Viola.
Posy is also a lovely name. Or Fleur.
Also, in many languages the word for violet is violetta.
I think the name Violet is beautiful, as are your reasons for wanting to use it. And I agree with those who’ve said it’s more flower or name than color and White is a pretty common last name and not an especially evocative color name. However, the combination makes both feel far more colorful to me than if either were alone. It may work and is still cute, but testing it on myself, I cringed a little imagining using it in a professional setting and worried about not being taken as seriously as I’d want in different situations, especially as an adult.
I think it would make a fantastic middle name, or better yet, maintain the impact but lose the problematic pairing with Viola as first name as others have suggested. Or, so second other suggestions, what other memories/associations of your grandmother do you have that may work? Or you could name her something else, but still decorate with violets, like she’s surrounded by the love you and your grandmother shared.
Good luck with whatever you and your husband choose. I hope you have the baby you’re longing for and write in to tell us his/her name!
I think the problem is you see Violet as a flower name, but it is a color name to your husband. Personally, my first thought was of Lavender Brown, the Harry Potter character. Great name for a character, but not one I’d want for myself.
Viola is the Latin designation for most flowers people commonly identify as “violets”, so maybe Viola would work? There are also the Greek names Iolanthe & Ione, which both mean “violet” Or perhaps Violetta would feel a little less like a color to your husband? And she could always use Etta as a nickname.
Where I live, there is a type of wild violet commonly called the Sweet William. So maybe you could reserve William for a boy, and pick something else for a daughter.
Or other flower names that are less colorful? Fleur, Blossom, Fern, Calla, Flora, Iris, Ivy, etc.
You like the idea of Ruby & Violet as cousins, but maybe you could use Gemma instead. It certainly relates to Ruby, but without the color problem. For a boy you could do something like Jasper or Mica(h).
Your memory of your grandmother is pretty nature-related, even without the specific flower. Do other nature names appeal to you?
I agree with you that it reads more “flower” “common last name” than “color color” …
I don’t think you could use just any color name though. Scarlett White or Indigo White would scream RAINBOW way more than the things that are also something else (stones, flowers, spices etc).
Unrelated to the color question, the Violet & Ruby combination immediately made me think of the Rag Doll Press/Ivy Cottage books about Violet Pickles and Ruby Buttons. The books are out of print now but the girls are an adorable duo! Love the names.
http://www.amazon.com/E.-J.-Taylor/e/B001HP2QWW/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1366733339&sr=8-1
Ooh, I like the suggestions of Fleur (or Flora) and Ione!
Ha! My grandma Ruby had a sister named Ione!
…Now you have me thinking!
My daughter’s name is Violet and her favourite colour is purple. She insists on wearing it whenever she can (she’s two) and I often bring it up with people as I’m embarrassed to think they believe I do it on purpose. However everyone I’ve mentioned it to has looked at me blankly and said that they hadn’t even thought of it. Violet is so much more common these days and people associate it with the flower long before the colour.
That being said, unfortunately if that’s what your husband thinks when he hears the name then it’s going to be very hard to break that association.
What about Iona? It means ‘Violet’s sister’.
I couldn’t tell for sure from your letter–are the flowers in the memory definitely violets, or possibly some other kind of purple wildflowers? If you’re not sure, maybe consider other purple wildflower names. I’m taking these from a list common and Latin names of purple wildflowers that grow in North America:
Lupine
Aster
Iris (or Savannah Iris)
Larkspur
Mariana
** Viola (like violet, but without the obvious color association)
Delphinium could become Delphia (my great-great-grandmother’s name)
Vinca
Lily
Hyacinth
Clover
Ivy
Daisy
and I love Columbine, but it probably has too many negative associations still.
Or, I know it’s old-school, but another (sometimes) purple flower: Amaryllis
Honestly I think it sounds like a cartoon character’s name. If your grandmother’s name was *actually* Violet, I wouldn’t mind it that much.
Also, don’t assume she will change her last name someday: she might never marry at all – and if she does, you don’t now if the social/cultural/individual circumstances will be the same as yours.
As I see it, you 4 options:
1) Use Violet as the middle name
2) Use another name to honour your grandmother
3) Hyphenate (either the first name or the surname): Violet-Jane White and Violet Jones-White sound fine)
4) Use a variation of the name: Viola, Ione, Ianthe, Yolande, Yolanda, and Violante all mean “violet”.
I like the name – I certainly notice that it’s distinctive, but didn’t immediately go to the “color, color” place. I don’t think it’s particularly amusing, nor do I think it would get made fun of, much, at least not in her peer group. Lots of girls are being named Violet, and at least when she’s younger, they probably won’t even realize it’s a color. It might get more notice when she’s a teenager and it *could* be annoying for her to have it pointed out all the time. But I think your reasons for wanting to use it are lovely, and would justify it to me because it’s not a “bad” name – it’s not comical, it’s doesn’t have perverted or negative associations, and it’s somewhat romantic as a name, to boot.
With that said, I agree that you’re not likely to change your husband’s mind, and while I think it’s fine to have these discussions before you really have to make a decision, at some point, you may just have to let it go, and probably should. I had baby names picked out before I met my husband. We discussed names before we were ever married. He nixed all my favorite suggestions, and so I dropped them – why would I try to make him give his child a name he disliked? He, on the other hand, had one boy and one girl name he loved and he didn’t stop talking about them for years, or “jokingly” referring to our future children by those names, despite the fact that I really disliked the boy’s name and found the girl’s name too whimsical for a first name (we ended up using it for our daughter’s middle name, so he got a little win there). It sounds silly, and maybe it doesn’t bother most people as much as it bothers me, but having to fight repeatedly against a name you genuinely dislike seems like the height of unfairness when there are thousands of names available out there. I’m currently pregnant and we are fortunately having another girl, because thinking of replacements for my husband’s pick that he might – just might – accept, or names that went with his pick as a middle name – was literally keeping me up at night early in my pregnancy.
I have a child with colors for both his first and last names! But like yours, there is a story behind it that ultimately trumped the weird factor for me. I was a single mom when my son was born. I named him Grey. Four years later, I began dating a man with the last name P!nk. When I married him last year, he also adopted my son. Grey adamantly wanted to have his new daddy’s last name, despite the color combo, so we did it. Sure, people notice it and tend to chuckle a bit, but that more has to do with the specific color on a male than the combo of two colors. So if a 10-year-old boy can carry the name Grey P!nk with pride, I think a girl will hardly be scarred by Violet White, especially in honor of her great-grandmother.
I don’t want to sound disrespectful, but are you sure it is the name your husband doesn’t like, or is it the conversation? From your letter you say you’ll bring the subject up when you “have a captive audience”. I wonder if your husband perhaps feels a little trapped by this and dislikes having to have a conversation you’ve had over and over again. Maybe this is why he vetoes everything?
If I were you I would drop the whole naming conversation (with him anyway) until there is a real, actual baby to be named. And even then I would bring the subject up in a neutral place, not in the car where he feels trapped and can’t get away. And then maybe, just maybe, he may even come to like the name Violet, if he doesn’t feel like he’s being forced into anything.
For what it’s worth I think the name Violet White sounds fine, if anything I think of a pale flower.
I also wonder if it matters whether you put the stress on the first name or the last name when saying it out loud. I say it VY-let white and what comes to mind is flowers. But when I say violet WHITE, i think of the colour. Weird.
I absolutely love it. I think it’s a beautiful feminine name. And like many others, I didn’t even think that it was two colours. Good luck with everything.
Thank you all for your input, and thank you for posting my question, Swistle! I’ll have to update, someday, when the time comes that we need to decide on a baby name, but my husband’s stubbornness tells me that it will probably be in the delivery room before we are able to come to a decision.
I do appreciate some of the stories from others who have color names, and I like some of the alternative options posed by the previous commenters. Oddly enough, several of you mentioned Ione, and that was my grandmother’s sister’s name!
I also agree with the readers who said that the name feels like it has too much of the “T” or “I” sound, and I was hoping that breaking it up with a different sounding middle would help that.
As it stands now, I would be willing to use Violet in the middle, and I think my dear old stubborn husband might be able to get behind the name too, if it weren’t in every day usage.
Again, thank you all for your input! :)
I just wanted to point out that the probable reason why JK named the character Lavender Brown was because the name was a tad ridiculous and the character is a tad ridiculous. Violet White may sound fine to a lot of people, but others will think it is comical.
Good luck coming to a consensus with your husband.
I love the connection to your grandma and the memory it brings up for you. Kids will be kids and if they want to tease, they will find something to tease about. I would hardly call “Violet White” much to really go off of teasing-wise. As Swistle mentioned, I noticed it as a flower name first. I really do hope your husband can come around to it because I think Violet White is beautiful.
Oddly enough, my newborn cousin’s name is Georgia Brown!
I place Georgia Brown, Violet White, and Lavender Brown (Harry Potter) in the same camp. They feel elegant to me. I think they would age very well.
I also think of it as a flower first name and a common last name and I actually find it whimsical and charming, such a pretty name Violet White! Love it! I can’t really see much teasing going on either. Just try to get your hubby onside!