Monthly Archives: June 2011

Baby Boy Pingree, Brother to Corinne

Jayme writes:

My husband and I are expecting our second, a boy, this summer. Although we had a difficult time naming our daughter (Corinne), we seem to be more on the same page when it comes to boys’ names. Here is our delimma. Several years ago I mentioned that I wanted to use my maiden name (Dalton) for a son. My father doesn’t have any boys, and I thought it would be a nice way to honor our family. The probem is I’m a teacher, and I’ve seen too many Daltons in the last few years to want to continue to use it as a first name (I prefer slightly uncommon, classic names-). My husband, on the other hand,still really likes it. I prefer the name Weston for a boy, and my husband doesn’t mind this name. So, could we use Dalton as a middle name (Weston Dalton) or is that too much of the same sound? With our daughter, we picked a first name we liked and gave her a family middle name (in her case, the middle name of both of her grandmothers). We would like to do the same with our son, and don’t plan to have any other children (so this is our last chance to use my maiden name). Other names we’ve considered are: Everett, Zane, Owen, Kennett, & Nolan, though none of these names really strike me like Weston does. Of the other names, I like the name Owen the best, but know too many other friends (and just people in general!) with children with this name to use it myself.

Thanks in advance if you are able to offer any advice!

On the issue of sound, I would go right ahead and use Weston Dalton. Even if that were his first name and surname, I wouldn’t think it was a disastrous combination if you loved the name; for a first and middle and probably-the-last-chance-to-use it, I say go ahead. For the most part he’ll be known as Weston Pingree—and the middle name comes with the untouchable “It’s my mother’s maiden name” explanation.

Or…use Dalton as the first name after all. Weston is currently a more common name than Dalton (#224 versus #260 in 2010, according to the Social Security Administration), so if you’ve seen more Daltons than Westons in the classroom, that might be a regional thing, or it might be that Dalton was more common than Weston in the years your recent students were born, or it might be luck of the draw and soon you’ll see it the other way around. Both names are modern surname names, and so unless you’ve had a particularly negative experience with a Dalton in the classroom, I’d encourage you to go with your first love.

I think it’s pretty special when a maiden name makes a good first name, and it’s a shame to waste the opportunity. If your only worry is the commonness, and if your husband still prefers Dalton, then rest assured on the popularity issue and go for Dalton.

Baby Girl Evans, Sister to Avery, Kaely, and Maggie

Wendy writes:

I think we need help for naming our fourth daughter, due in July. Our first three are Avery (with my middle name), Kaely (husbands mom’s maiden for a middle), and Maggie (after my great grandmother). I look over these and cannot figure out a style except to say we kept thinking it was the last girl. The y sound at the end was accidental. Our last name is Evans.

Names that I like are Lila, Olive (nn Livvy). My husband has only suggested the names Harper, Rachel, and Selah. We don’t like each others so it’s back to the drawing board. I just want the name to be pretty, I tend to like shorter names, and a classic that’s not too classic but will fit a kid or woman. My husband is a philosophy professor and pastor so he would like more meaning. I’m not worried about ending in the “y” sound. If it does/doesn’t, no big deal.

If you have the time I’d appreciate any suggestions.

Lila and Livvy make me think of Lily and Libby. Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Lily. Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Libby.

Rachel and Selah and Lila make me think of Leah/Lia. Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Lia.

Selah and Lila make me think of Leila and Layla. Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Leila. Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Layla.

I also think Laney would be a good fit: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Laney. Delaney would work, too.

Or Ellery: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Ellery.

Or Sadie: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Sadie.

Or Josie: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Josie.

Or Polly: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Polly.

Or Darcy: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Darcy.

Or Shelby: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Shelby.

Or Lucy: Avery, Kaely, Maggie, and Lucy.

Presidential Baby Names

Laura G. mentioned on Twitter that she knew a family with three girls: a Reagan, a Kennedy, and a McKinley. “That’s hardcore presidential dedication,” she commented.

I tried to make a jokey reply about what that family ought to name a boy—but goodness, there are a lot of genuinely good presidential names available:

Abraham
Andrew
Benjamin
Calvin
Carter
Cleveland
Clinton
Ford
Franklin
George
Grant
Harrison
Hayes
Jackson
James
Jefferson
John
Lincoln
Madison
Monroe
Pierce
Quincy
Taylor
Theodore
Thomas
Truman
Tyler
Roosevelt
Warren
Washington
William
Wilson
Zachary

Discussion: Duplicating a Name Within a Generation; Using a Namesake Name for a Non-Firstborn Child

Stephanie writes:

What do you and your readers think of re-using or repeating a name within a generation? We, and DH’s siblings and parents strongly prefer what I’ll call classic names (others would call boring). When we discuss baby names, DH will suggest names of our nephews. Now, the cousins would be pretty far apart in age (specifically, 17 years apart) and live in different (but neighboring states). We see them several times a year, and in fact, the father of the nephew (our child’s uncle in this case) is the godfather of our other children. Last name would be the same too. I say, no way. DH sees no problem. ??? (This is actually getting close to being one of those ridiculous recurring fights in our marriage like your recent post on your other blog. It doesn’t get me to 11 yet, but man, it will soon!)

Related, but different issue, DH keeps throwing his father’s name out there as an option. We already have a son, whom we did not name after his father (or any family member for his first name, although it is the name of one of DH’s uncles, but come on, large catholic family, it was bound to be somebody’s name!). DS, DH, and DH’s father all have the same middle name, a family name, it was maiden name of DH’s great great or great great great grandmother or something. I think it seems weird to use his dad’s name for a second son, and I wouldn’t want to use the middle name again, so then he’s not a Jr or the second (whatever it would be anyway), he’s just another _____.

 

In answer to the first question, I don’t mind repeating names within a generation, as long as everyone’s okay with it (that is, as long as it’s not going to lead to silly feuds about someone “stealing” someone else’s name). I think even in groups that see each other frequently, the confusion is minimal/negligible and can even lead to fun in-jokes and nicknames, and to additional bonding between the people sharing a name.

But this seems to me like the kind of issue where it doesn’t matter one bit what _I_ think: if it bothers you to name your children the same names as your nephews, those names should be out of the running.

In answer to your second question, I think there are ways in which it’s BETTER to give an important namesake name to a non-firstborn child. For example, a friend of mine had twin boys in a family where passing on the father’s first name was a tradition—so she gave the father’s name to the secondborn twin. That way they each had something: one was the firstborn, one had the family name.

And although we feel it to be the case, the firstborn child isn’t any more special or important than the other children. I think the reason it feels that way with names is that it shows that you used the name at the very first opportunity—but that doesn’t mean using it later on is meaningless or silly, and I like the way it decreases the “firstborn takes all” feeling.

But again, this is a situation where it doesn’t matter what I think about it: if it bothers you, the name should be out. One parent can certainly try to talk the other parent around, and can even try it a few times—but if the other parent continues to be opposed, the issue should be over.

Nevertheless, it is fun to discuss. So what does everyone else think about the two questions? How do you feel about duplicating a name within a generation? And how do you feel about using a namesake name for a non-firstborn child? And polls are fun, too, so let’s put two polls over to the right. [Polls closed; see results below.]

finewithit

Baby Naming Issue: Initials That Spell EEW

Amy writes:

I’m due with our second child, a baby girl in 6 weeks. We like unique first names with personally significant middle names and we have an 18 month old whose name we still absolutely love, Atticus, with his middle name being the name of the small town where we met & got married. We’ve had this baby’s full name picked out since before we even knew she was a girl but suddenly I’m having second thoughts. Her first name starts with E and is unique but a recognizable and easily pronounceable one-syllable word. Her middle name will be Elizabeth, a 4th generation name from my mother’s side, and our last name is two syllables and starts with W. My husband and I both love the name and have already revealed it to a few close friends and family members to positive reviews. But have you figured out my problem? Her initials will be EEW. I know it’s not the way most people spell eww when they’re talking about something gross and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve had to use my full initials for something but I can see the potential teasing of “Your parents named you ewwww?!” written all over it. Is that what it makes you think of?

I’ve thought about changing the spelling to Alizabeth to avoid the issue altogether but it feels like it would be taking something away from the family significance of the name. I’ve also considered adding another middle name before the Elizabeth but it feels wrong to just tag some other random name along that we don’t really care about just to change her initials. I’ve also thought of shortening the middle name to Beth, which I don’t like as well, but it sounds terrible when said aloud with her first name. What should we do? Am I making a bigger deal of this than I should be? Should we stick with it and hope it’s not something that comes up often? Are there any other spellings we could use or maybe foreign options of Elizabeth or…? I don’t want to give up the name we love but I also don’t want it to become an issue she’s unhappy with later and have her name tainted for me anyway with “Why did we do that to her?” guilt.

I keep telling my husband he wasn’t even in the room when I filled out the birth certificate for Atticus so I could change the spelling to Alizzabegth if I really felt like it but I don’t think that’s going to go over well!

Help! Time is running out!

 
I would not change the family name. There are many alternate spellings and other-language variations on the name Elizabeth, but if it’s for fourth-generation family significance I wouldn’t mess around with it.

You don’t mention the option of changing the first name/spelling, so I assume that’s not changeable.

Well, it’s a difficult situation. In general, I don’t like initials to spell things—even good things. And initials such as EEW or EWW are not great. But…I’m disinclined to try at this point to talk you out of a name you’ve solidly chosen just to avoid some initials. If the name were, for example, Anna Sue Stevens, I would tell you that sad as it may be, an alternative would need to be chosen; but EEW seems on the line to me. I’d certainly avoid it if I thought of it beforehand, but this is very close to being afterhand.

My favorite “solves the whole thing” solution is for you to add another middle name. I agree with you that it seems silly to just toss a random name in there merely for the purpose of solving the problem—but I think if we avoid the random and the tossing and instead find a name you DO love, or a name with significance, that it no longer seems silly at all. It takes the name you love and improves it in two ways: by getting rid of the problem initials, and by letting you use an additional name you love.

If the name Elizabeth is from your side of the family, are there women on your husband’s side you might like to honor? Or perhaps a surname with a pretty sound? Or your own maiden name? E__ Elizabeth Name Surname is the order I’m thinking of. I think this could end up being a very pleasing revision, and fun to choose.

 

 

Name update! Amy writes:

Hi Swistle. A few weeks ago you helped my husband and I with the initials problem for our daughter- EEW. Your advice and all the comments helped us to feel confident to go ahead and use the name we loved the way it was and that the initials really weren’t that big of a deal. Elm Elizabeth W. was born on Monday and she’s perfect, just like her name. Sending along a picture. Thank you and your readers so much!

Elm

Baby Boy Lou, Brother to Adam and Naomi

Karen writes:

I’m due in about 7 weeks and we’re still undecided about number three’s name. He will be Adam and Naomi’s little brother. I’m Karen and my husband is Dion. Our last name sounds like “Lou.” This is in all likelihood our last child. *sniff*. We have two front-running names but they both break one of my “rules:” that the kids’ names not sound like ours, so as to prevent confusion, especially since my husband’s hearing is not great. But maybe some rules were made to be broken?

John – this has been the leading contender for most of my pregnancy and we both really like it. It’s a good name and a strongly family name for me. However, Dion is more concerned about the similarity to his name because confusion is likely to be with him, the one with poor hearing after all. I don’t like Jack; John would be John. But are John and Dion too similar for one family?

Aaron – I’ve always liked this name but never considered it because it broke the similarity rule. I mentioned it off-hand recently and Dion said that he likes it, too. He’s not very concerned about confusing Aaron and Karen, mainly because it wouldn’t often cause confusion for him, just for us. I’m also thinking about John Aaron, possibly going by Aaron. Going by a middle name is very common in my family. In fact, Naomi is actually Margaret Naomi. But are Aaron and Karen too similar for one family?

I guess my main question is: John, Aaron, or back to the drawing board?

Our taste is typically “biblical – but not just biblical”. Here are some other names we’ve considered in the past, though I wouldn’t necessarily rule them out this time either.
Simon – was a backup name for Adam.
Gabriel – was also a backup name for Adam.
Jonah – was going to be Naomi’s name until the day she was born, when we found out she was a girl.
Benjamin – was a backup name for Jonah.
James – was a also backup name for Jonah.

many thanks,
Karen

P.S. I cut out this next part because I felt the query was getting too long [note from Swistle: I thought the postscripts were really good so asked Karen if I could leave them in] but here’s how strongly John is a family name for me:
My brother is John Ian, father is John David, and grandfather was John Norman, though they go/went by Ian, David, and Jack respectively, exactly so as to prevent confusion. It goes back at least seven generations. My brother will likely never have kids and even if he does, we both agree that it would be just fine if there were more than one John in the next generation. I also have a cousin John on my father’s side and twin aunts Jean and Joan on my mother’s side.

P.P.S. Again because it was getting too long… I know John and Dion don’t seem very similar but when I say John, the J can sound like Dzh or Dsh, which can sound like d-YUH, which makes JOHN sound like dee-YON. I’m not a linguist, so I dunno, maybe this is just a regional thing. We’re Canadian.

Boy, I really want to push you to use John. I love that name, and I love the sibling group of Adam, Naomi, and John. But your husband is the best judge of whether it will present an auditory problem for him. Would he be willing to accept the occasional confusion (if it WOULD only be occasional), in order to get the name you both love? It seems like it might be at the same level of hassle as other things (a second middle name, a Jr., etc.) we sometimes decide to accept because it’s worth it for other reasons.

Oh, dear, I have just had a thought. “John” is slang for bathroom. So is “Loo.” I wonder if this is well-known enough to cause problems.

Naming him after your brother might work. Ian Lou; Adam, Naomi, and Ian.

Or after your dad: David Lou; Adam, Naomi, and David.

Would it help to use Jonathan instead of John? Jonathan Lou; Adam, Naomi, and Jonathan.

The first confusion I noticed with the name Aaron was Adam: I realize everyone is going to be different about this, but I would have trouble remembering which boy was which. For scale, I have the same problem if a family has a Matthew and a Michael, or if I’m reading a book with a David and a Daniel. It’s not that the names are SO SIMILAR (because they’re not, and I wouldn’t expect someone else to find them too similar), but something about them creates a problem in my mind. Same number of syllables and/or same approximate length, same first letter, similar associations. With the additional problem of rhyming with Karen, this name would be off my own list—but as usual with this sort of thing, that doesn’t mean I’d say it should be off yours. Many, many other people would say “What? Adam and Aaron aren’t ANYTHING alike!”

From your list of other possibilities, my favorite is James. I like the subtle repeating M sound in all three names: Adam, Naomi, and James. I like Benjamin for this same reason, but between the two I prefer James for visual length. I also like Simon for both M-sound and length.

A possibility you’ve likely already considered is Joshua. Joshua Lou; Adam, Naomi, and Joshua. Joshua is similar in some ways to Jonah, but more mainstreamed (and with more diluted associations) like Adam.

Name update! Karen writes:

Thanks again for posting my naming question! Your and your readers’ comments definitely helped me make up my mind. From then on, I started leaning more and more towards John. We briefly discussed names on the ride to the hospital, since we hadn’t exactly pinned one down, but we still didn’t come to an agreement quite yet. I knew immediately after he was born that his name was going to be John, though I knew Dion wasn’t completely sold. In my mind, he was born and his name was John. End of story (almost.) I told (yes, told) Dion that he could choose a middle name if he wanted a J.P. or J.J. or something or if he thought that “just” John was too ho-hum or too grown-up for a baby. But I pointed out that Jay is a good nickname for a baby John and that I was perfectly happy to continue the pattern that the boys – he, Adam, and John – have no middle name but that Naomi and I do. And that was all the persuading I needed to do. And, really, how much persuading does any woman need to do in the labour and delivery room? Dion decided that he’d used all his baby-naming mojo with Naomi, so, John it is. Dion still isn’t sure how we’ll say John in that boy-are-you-in-trouble tone but adding the last name always helps, no? Thanks again!

Baby Girl Winters, Sister to Clementine

Poppy writes:

I just discovered your blog recently and I’m hoping you can help me. My name is Penelope Ingrid Winters, and I am called Poppy. I’ve always liked my name, despite the grade-school “Poopy Poppy” comments. I have one daughter, Clementine Alice. I went to the hospital after a long process (I wish I’d had your blog then!)sure I’d name her Georgia Alice, and then she came out with this fantastic bright red hair, and a name I’d rejected early on in my pregnancy as not name-y enough popped into my head. So she’s Clementine. She’ll be three a week before her sister is due (yikes) and her name suits her perfectly. I mostly call her Clem or Clemmy for simplicity’s sake but her full name is so much fun to say that I often end up yelling CLEMENTINE! purely because of the sound. And yes, we sing the song A LOT!
And now I am pregnant! I am a single-by-choice mom and I travel a lot for work, which means Clem has already lived in 2 places. So its helpful for me to have names that work in different cultures, although of course I failed miserably with my first daughter. Anyway, this new baby is a girl and will be my last child. Here are some names I’m considering:

Harper (I really like this but worry about how modern/trendy it is; I did check your favorite baby name book and she says Clementine is more in line with, say, Henrietta, but I’m not sure I think that’s true. If it is not and Clem’s name is more modern than Harper works, but if not…)
Violet (but I think it’s too much with her sisters name)
Dagny (came across the other day and I like it, but feel it’s too unfamiliar with C’s and my names)
Helena (like but doesn’t sound right somehow)
Coraline (too matchy but like a lot; also don’t want repeating initials)
Jessamine (not sure. possibly too unfamiliar and also might be a problem with endings, though I say Jessa-MEAN and Clemen-TINE…)
Margot (same as Helena)
Mercy (love the sound, don’t want a virtue name. Honor is in the same boat)

So these are kind of all over the place, huh? I feel like Clem’s name is really fun, light despite being long and has some fun nicknames…well, one or two. And I don’t feel guilty giving her a really fun first name because her middle is a very traditional, relatively tease-free name that has a girly nickname. I’d like the same for her sister (and my sister used George for her adorable baby last year, so Georgia is out).
Middle name will be a family name (as Alice is) and I’d like it to start with a vowel, since mine and Clem’s do. Here are a few in my family:

Eunice (but doesn’t work the way Alice does)
Agatha
Emma (probably my front runner right now but depends on first name)
Allegra (allergy thing, and close to Alice)
Annette
Emeline (second favorite but not as common as I’d like)

So now that I’ve written way too much, any help would be welcome! Thank you! I am off the scour those dreadful baby name forums…

I suggest Magnolia!

Baby Girl Hamilton, Sister to Richard (River)

Sarah writes:

We are expecting a baby girl around 4th of July. Our son is called River, but he is a fourth, and his full name is Richard S___ H___ IV. We used the R from Richard and IV from fourth to get River. We wanted him to have a more unusual nickname, but like that he has a traditional name as well. My husband goes by Rush, from the initials RSH. My name is Sarah, which I have never really liked because I was always one of 6 or 7 Sarahs in school and among my friends. But, it is a family name that goes pretty far back in my family tree, and my middle name is my mom’s maiden name. I like the family/tradition aspects of my name. Our last name sounds very similar to Hamilton. We would like our daughter ideally to have a family name as well, since the rest of us do. This will probably be our last child.

My favorite is Rose, with the nickname Rosie. I love it and it meets all of my name-nerd criteria. I like that it is traditional/timeless, but not super popular. I think it is popular as a middle name, but is in the 300s on the social security list of first names. I also like that it is a word and has a nature theme like River, without sounding too matchy. (A lot of people have suggested names like Brooke, Sky, etc, to go with River, but those all seem overly matchy/naturey, where Rosie does not to me.) One of my grandmothers is Rosemary and Rose is a name that appears several times in my family tree. The middle name would be my maiden name. People have a very positive reaction to this name when I mention it, except for my husband.

My husband does not like Rose/Rosie. He likes more androgynous/tomboyish names for girls. He thinks Rose is too flowery and frilly. His favorite name is Holland. It was his great-grandfather’s first name. I don’t mind the nickname Holly, but I really don’t like the sound of Holland Hamilton, it is a mouthful of a name. If we did go with Holland, I would want to use a more feminine middle name, maybe Rose, instead of my maiden name. I also have a bad association with name Holland from a family I knew growing up whose last name was Holland. I am having a hard time getting over that association. We have looked at other family last names, but none of them really work as a girl’s first name. If this baby had been a boy, he probably would have been Burke, which was my grandmother’s last name. We both love it, but it seems too masculine for a girl.

A compromise family name that we both like but neither of us totally love, is Dora/Dory. My husband’s grandmother was Doreen and my mom is Donna, so Dora seems like a good combination of the two, and Dory is a cute nickname. Not sure what the middle name would be. My maiden name stars with D and doesn’t sound great with Dora. Rose also doesn’t flow very well. The big issue, however — Dora the Explorer and Dory the fish from Finding Nemo are causing most people to have a bad reaction to the name and no one we mention it to likes it. Dora is not in the SSA top 1000, probably because of the cartoon, even though rhyming names like Cora and Nora have been rising. I would be interested to hear what your readers think about Dora! Will anyone even remember the cartoon when our daughter is grown up? I realize she would likely get teased as a child, but who doesn’t, and I’m not sure a cartoon should prevent us from using the name.

A final family name option is Elizabeth with the nickname Libby. This is my other grandmother’s name, and it has been used a lot by other family members, though none of them are Libby. I have a cousin who goes by Elizabeth, a few other cousins with the middle name Elizabeth, and my niece is Elspeth (scottish version of Elizabeth) but we call her Ellie mostly. It is a nice name, but maybe too popular overall and definitely overused by my family. I also don’t think Libby really goes with River very well. (We talked for a while about calling her Liberty nn Libby if she is born on 4th of July, but then I found out that River Phoenix had a sister named Liberty and so, no.)

Since our son is named after my husband, a lot of people have been suggesting that I should have final say on the name of our daughter. And I think if I really pushed for Rosie, my husband would eventually give in, but it would be nice to use a name that we both like! We have a list of non-family names that we both like, but as we get closer to the due date, it is seeming more important to me that she have a family name. The non-family names we agree on are Fiona, Ainsley and Penelope/Pippa. All sound good with my maiden name as the middle name, so she would still have some family connection.

Sorry this is long, feel free to edit! Thanks!

 
Oh dear, I’m afraid it’s true for me, too: the instant I hear the name Dora, the “D-d-d-d-d-Dora!” theme song starts playing in my head. And the show is still on the air, and I remember reading they’d branched out into a pre-teen-type Dora, too. It seems like in our children’s peer group, that’s going to be a well-known character. At least she is a strong and positive character, which can make the difference between deciding to go with it anyway and having to throw it out.

As to whether anyone will still remember the name when she’s grown up, I’m not sure. I thought back to the TV shows I watched as a child: I was an early-’70s baby, so I remember Sesame Street. The names Oscar and Ernie and Bert and Gordon still have strong associations for me. Maria and Olivia have only faint associations: they’ve been diluted by frequent use. A name like Dora lacks that dilution, but may achieve it later on—or might, even a generation later, still be a name like Ernie.

One possible solution is naming her Isadora and calling her Dora—but if you or she finds the teasing is too annoying, she can switch to Izzy or to Isadora. The downside: now we have drifted quite far from the namesakes. If I were named Donna or Doreen, I don’t think it would feel like an Isadora was named after me.

Berkley comes to mind, because of Burke. But again, with family names, finding variations doesn’t really help—since then they’re not family names anymore. Still, you’d have the positive association, and with your maiden name as the middle name, she’ll have still have a family name.

A name I love with Richard is Margaret. And an old nickname for Margaret is Daisy. Richard and Margaret; River and Daisy. But if your husband didn’t like Rosie, he might not feel any happier about Daisy.

Since your son is named after your husband, it is appealing to think of naming your daughter after you. It’s a family name on your side, and the name Sarah has two nicknames I think are adorable: Sadie and Sally. I think Sadie is best with River: Richard and Sarah, called River and Sadie.

 

 

Name update! Sarah writes:

Thanks to you and all the readers for your input. Many of the suggestions we had already considered and decided against. We had talked about naming her Sarah with the nickname Sadie, but my husband didn’t like that it looks like the word Sad. For similar reasons, he doesn’t like Violet –it reminds him of violent. Hollis was the name of a computer program I used to use every day at work, so that was out. And thanks for alerting us to expansion of the Dora cartoon to Teen Dora, that helped us decide against using it.
I am happy to say that my husband came around to my favorite name, and Rosie was born on July 6th. We are home now and doing great! Thanks again.

rosie1

Baby Boy McGregor, Brother to Sadie and Cleo

Genevieve writes:

Hello! I’m a huge fan of both your blogs and really should have sent in this much earlier, because my due date’s in TEN. DAYS. (eep) and we still are having a monstrous problem with naming our son.

I’m Genevieve, he’s Will. We have two daughters, Isadora Ruby (5) and Clementine Luna (2 1/2), and call them Sadie and Cleo EXCLUSIVELY. Last name is McGregor.

We chose our daughters’ names for the nicknames they gave us (we felt that Sadie and Cleo were much too insubstantial for full names), not because we loved Isadora and Clementine. In fact, we really don’t love or even like Isadora; we just adored Sadie too much and Isadora was the most realistic way to get to it. Clementine we do like, though. Middle names were just names we liked that sounded nice with the full names, and the middle name for this bub will be the same.

I actually still feel really guilty about giving our oldest daughter a full name neither of us like and isn’t really that appealing at all–Sadie doesn’t much like it either. My name’s Genevieve and growing up I would get so many lovely comments about it, which gave me a much-needed confidence and self-esteem boost in adolescence and beyond. I’m worried (sometimes I fret about it to the point of being sick) that no one will ever tell Sadie she has a gorgeous name, and I feel kind of awful about hoisting upon her Isadora, though I’m still ridiculously in love with her nickname.

So we’d like not to have a lingering sense of naming remorse with this bub.

Anyway. Enough back story.

With Bub, we’ve had an awful time with the naming process. Unlike Sadie and Cleo, we haven’t even found a nickname that we totally adore yet, much less a full name.

The name we’re thinking we love is Rex, but there are numerous problems with it.

–We have no idea how to get to Rex through a more substantial name, and if we can’t find one, Rex is off the list. Any ideas?
–Rex is seen as a dog name. Sadie is seen as a dog name. Cleo is seen as a cat name. There’s a accidental theme going on here, and my husband doesn’t like it. I’m pretty okay with it, though.
–When we’ve told a few select people that we’re thinking of naming the baby Rex, we’ve gotten cringing and obvious distaste, even though they tried to hide it. Now, I’m not going to let other people dictate what we name our baby, BUT I don’t want people (like our parents and close friends) really hating his name, because there’s a good chance he won’t like it either.

What do YOU think, Swistle? Is Rex just too odd? As an objective third party who just so happens to be a fabulous namer, your opinion is definitely needed on this one.

Other names on our list that we’re strongly considering:
Ned–Edmund, Edward–Not a huge fan at all of either full name, with those nasally suffixes
Max–Maxwell, Maximilian–I kind of really love the alliteration, but hubby isn’t sure. Also the pet name theme thing again. Also popularity issues that are really, REALLY throwing me off here; I really didn’t like how popular Sadie was when we named her, though thankfully we’ve never even come across another Sadie yet, and Max is set to skyrocket up the charts.

Ned is Will’s favorite, Max is mine. But neither of them feel like The One.

I guess we’re looking for a spunky, fresh, fun nickname that goes with a respectable full name. Also, if there’s a name out there that’s spunky, fresh, and fun AND suitable for an adult professional, we’d love to hear it; the nickname thing isn’t mandatory at all. We’d rather not repeat first initials or have similar beginning or ending sounds.

If Bub had been a girl, we would have named her Penelope Isis and called her Piper; somewhat ironically, we’ve had this name in our back pockets since before we even started trying for a third baby. Sigh. Though we’re over the moon that Bub is a boy, a girl would have been so much easier to name. We’re tentatively set on having at least one more baby, so maybe we’ll be back in a few years if we have another boy ;)

Thanks, Swistle!

I am going to have to make this quick, because what the readers don’t know is that this “due date is in 10 days” email arrived (*checks watch*) 11 days ago. So I’m going to post INSTANTLY so everyone can start working on it if it’s not too late already.

Actually, FIRST I will say that I LOVE the name Isadora. LOVE IT. I don’t know why people keep using the extremely popular Isabella when they could instead use the similar-yet-almost-totally-neglected Isadora. So if I ever meet your daughter and she mentions her full name, _I_ will say, “What a GORGEOUS NAME!”

And then I will say that if you like Rex but feel like you’re not getting good feedback from your circle, I suggest Reid/Reed. I realize it’s not very similar (different vowel and different ending), but it came to mind. Sadie, Cleo, and Reid. Reid McGregor.

I’m having trouble thinking of any longer names that could give the nickname Rex. Everything I think of feels like a big reach. But that made me think of Redford, with the nickname Red. Redford McGregor; Sadie, Cleo, and Red.

With your surname, you have an excellent nickname opportunity WHATEVER name you choose: he could go by Mac. It’s similar to Max, but less common—and if you have any male relatives you’d like to honor in the first name slot but don’t love their names enough to use them daily, this is your opportunity.

One of my favorite nicknames for boys is Gus. Augusten, August, Angus, Augustus.

Another of my favorites is Dutch, but I’m not sure what to use as a full name.

Another favorite is Wesley/Wes. Wesley McGregor; Sadie, Cleo, and Wes.

It would repeat an initial, but only in the non-nickname name: Isaac/Ike. Isaac McGregor; Sadie, Cleo, and Ike.

Do you like either Franklin/Frank or Frederick/Fred?

Finn seems like it would work well: Sadie, Cleo, and Finn. It’s a stand-alone name, but if you wanted something longer there’s Finian or Finnegan.

I love Declan/Dec. Declan McGregor; Sadie, Cleo, and Dec.

Or Deacon/Deke. Deacon McGregor; Sadie, Cleo, and Deke.

Ever since watching Sabrina the Teenage Witch, the name Harvey has had “cute cool nice boy” associations for me. I think it makes a good cute/spunky/fresh child’s name and yet grows up to a perfectly appropriate adult name. Harvey McGregor.

Totally different style, but I think it hits the same mark: Keegan is both a fresh and spirited child’s name and a perfectly appropriate adult name.

Ooo, I just remembered another favorite boy nickname: Kip. It could be short for Kipling, or for Christopher. I think with Isadora and Clementine I prefer Kipling. Kipling McGregor; Sadie, Cleo, and Kip. That’s my favorite right there, I think. [Edit: The white supremacist views of Rudyard Kipling have been brought to my attention, and I would no longer recommend this name.]

Name update! Genevieve writes:

It was a tough decision, but we went with…

Finnegan Jude McGregor.

A reader suggested using both Finnegan and Jude and it dawned on us that that was an absolutely perfect idea.

While this means that we can’t use Jude as a future son’s name, we decided that we’d rather satisfy everyone right now with this actual baby’s name and not a save Jude for a baby we may never have.

The girls are even happier than I expected when we told them their baby brother’s name is Flynn. It was absolutely adorable. And my husband can still sing Hey Jude to baby Flynn, so he’s happy, too.

Our families are a bit puzzled as to how we got Flynn from Finnegan Jude (and that’s worrying me a teeny tiny bit) but they love both names, so we’re good there.

Thanks so much, everyone. You saved the day here.

If our next baby is a boy, you’ll probably hear from us again ;)

Baby Naming Issue: The Pronunciation of Gaius

Kathryn writes:

I am expecting my second child, a boy, in three weeks. Our last name sounds like Night. We have a daughter named Luella Grace (we call her Lulu).

During my first pregnancy, before we knew Lulu was a girl, we had short lists picked out for both sexes. This time, when we found out we were expecting a boy, we went back to our original short list. One name stood out as the clear winner, and for months we thought we were all set. We were sure that this little guy would be Gaius Christopher (Christopher is my husband’s father’s name), and we loved it. However, a few weeks ago, as I did more searches for the name Gaius, doubt began to creep into my mind. I have never heard it pronounced any other way than GUY-us. But it seemed that there were people out there who were not sure how to pronounce it, or worse, pronounced it GAY-us. Even Nameberry mentioned “the teasing potential of the first syllable.” Really??

The other names on our original short list just don’t seem right anymore, so we’re considering Caius as an alternative. The G and C are interchangeable in Latin, so it was not a question of authenticity. I think Caius is also a great name. It just doesn’t sound quite as fluid to me as Gaius does with Christopher and Night. In addition, people seem to associate it with the Twilight series, and we have some good friends who just named their son Kai, which, I’m sure Caius will readily be called, even if we don’t use it as a nickname at home.

So, my question is, do we stick to our original Gaius (still the name both my husband and I prefer), or go with Caius in hopes that it will save my son from a lifetime of “Gaylord Focker” type teasing?

 
The name Gaius is so unfamiliar (it was given to only 12 U.S. baby boys in 2010), most people have never encountered it and will have to use their experience with the language to figure out how to pronounce it. In U.S. English, “ai” has no one single pronunciation, but it’s commonly pronounced AY (as in say and day): raid, braid, aid, Kaiden, Jaiden, Adelaide, laid, maid, paid, afraid, pain, rain. And words like gain, gaiety, gaily, gait, as well as names like Gail and Abigail, reinforce the idea that the specific combination “gai” is pronounced as in “gay,” not as in “guy.”

Furthermore, in looking in my dictionary to see if I could find any gai- words pronounced with the “guy” sound, I found Gaius listed—and my dictionary (Webster’s Encyclopedic Unabridged) gives the pronunciation as GAY-us. Howjsay.com says it’s GUY-us or GAY-us. So does Merriam-Webster. In Latin, the name is pronounced like guy-oose—but this brings us to the difficulty of bringing a name from one language to another: do we call a child named Julius yoo-lee-oose (because that’s the Latin pronunciation) or JOOL-lee-us (because that’s the U.S. English)?

This issue comes up time and time again with name imports: should Catriona be like cat-tree-OWN-ah, or should it be like ca-TREEN-nah? Should Caitlin be like KATE-lin or like cat-LEEN? In general my opinion is that it’s appropriate to translate names from one language to another (either by changing the spelling to get the preferred pronunciation, or by changing the pronunciation to fit the spelling)—and that if the parents choose not to translate the name into their culture’s language, they should be prepared for / resigned to a certain Headache Quotient that comes with, for example, a lifetime of “No, it’s not KATE-lyn, it’s more like kath-LEEN. No, but it’s spelled like Caitlin, yes, we realize. No, no, not spelled Kathleen. No, this is actually the authentic pronunciation.”

Latin has its own additional complication: it’s a dead language, and the speakers of it died off before they could tell us how to pronounce it. Which means you lack the resources you’d have if you used, say, Caitlin, where you could tell people who gave you a hard time to go ask ALL OF IRELAND if they have a problem with your pronunciation. It’s especially tricky if you’re pronouncing the first half of the name with the Latin pronunciation (sounding like the word “guy”), but the second half of the name with the United States English pronunciation (-us as in bus, as opposed to in Latin where it would sound like the -oose in loose or moose).

Yes, I would switch to Caius. People will still say it KAY-us until you feel like tearing your hair out (Caiden, Cain, caiman, Michael Caine, Caitlin, Novocaine, Medicaid), but at least the mispronunciation doesn’t lead to a teasing issue. And perhaps we can think of an easy “No, it’s KI as in ____” example for you to use; if anyone can think of familiar words where “cai” is pronounced KI in English, please leave them in the comments section. (Spelling it Kaius would also help somewhat, because of the boy’s name Kai—although names like Kaiden would still lead people to mispronunciations, and your reference to authenticity makes me suspect you won’t want to change to a K.)

Another possibility is going back to the drawing board. I realize it’s late in the game for that, but your exasperation with mispronunciation is a bad sign: whichever spelling you use, you’ll have to accept a lot of it. Sometimes it’s worth a last-minute upheaval to avoid a name that will cause you continual frustration.

Or it might be enough just to be braced that the exasperation is a part of this name choice: Paul and I chose a non-typical spelling for one of our children’s names, and I think it helped tremendously that we thought to ourselves beforehand “If we use this name, we’re accepting a lifetime of spelling it Every.Single.Time.—and people will STILL get it wrong.” We thought it over, and we decided we wanted to use the name more than we minded the potential frustration. So now when it happens, we shrug: the name was worth it to us, and we understood ahead of time that it was a natural mistake for people to make.

Let’s have two polls. [Polls closed; see results below.] First: How would you think Gaius was pronounced, if you’d just seen it somewhere and hadn’t first read this post? Second: Which name should the Nights use? Gaius, their long-time favorite which goes better with the middle name and last name? or Caius, to avoid the gay-a** teasing issue? NOTE: This is not a question about which of the two names you prefer: it’s a question about whether the tease-factor of Gaius is enough to be worth giving up the favorite name for an alternative.

Gaius

 

 

Name update! Kathryn writes:

Thank you for responding to my email! And thank you to all your readers for all the input. The opinions and polls were eye-opening.

Our son was born two weeks ago. We named him Dashiell Christopher “Night,” and call him Dash.

I have to confess that despite popular opinion, my husband and I were ready to stick to our guns on Gaius. But at the eleventh hour, a dark horse emerged–Dashiell. It was a name that never made it onto our short list because, ironically, we thought it was too obscure (yes, we thought everybody had heard of Gaius Julius Caesar, but that few had heard of Dashiell Hammett) and maybe too literary. You see, we are a family of writers, my mother-in-law and I write children’s fiction, my sister-in-law is a journalist, and my husband, while not a professional writer, was an English major and has also been published. Naming a kid Dashiell seemed like we’d be putting too much pressure on him. But the more we considered it, the more we liked it. In the end, I had a shockingly fast labor and delivery. And when they handed me my son, Dash just seemed to fit him perfectly. So I guess you can say we went with your “go back to the drawing board” advice. Thanks again!