Cara writes:

I have a somewhat general question (with ulterior motives) for you and the lovely commenters. It’s clear to me that certain combinations of initials are best avoided, but when we discuss this issue we most often talk about names that result in three initials. What about names that have four initials (or, presumably, more)? If three of the initials spell something that we would avoid if there were only three initials, can the fourth initial fix the problem? Does it depend on the choice of the fourth initial or do we always see the three letters that we’re trying to avoid?

A mild example:

SAG seems best avoided. But what about JSAG or RSAG?

If you think the fourth initial solves the problem, would it also apply to a set of letters that spelled something more extreme?

I’m asking, of course, because my husband and I have been leaning toward a middle name that would give our child (due in a little over two weeks) the last three initials of FKR and I’m wondering if there’s any way to salvage the choice or if it’s a lost cause. The placement of letters is fixed, that is, it can’t be KFR instead. Clearly the first name couldn’t start with an M. But is there a letter that would work?

Thank you for your help!

I see it as a spectrum thing. At one end of the spectrum are the initials that don’t spell anything particularly bad (ER, MD, DOC, INK), where we might prefer to avoid them but if we really love a name it’s not worth giving it up just to avoid the initials. At the other end of the spectrum are the initials that are bad enough that we have to sacrifice names we love because it’s just too awful. (Different people will have different ideas of what’s intolerable, but some of my own would be the initials from names such as Abigail Sarah Smith, Gideon Andrew Young, Sarah Isabelle North, Kiley Katherine Kingston, Finn Alexander Greenfield, Felicity Anne Taylor.)

In between the two ends of the spectrum, it’s a matter of trading and balancing: of thinking “Would _I_ mind having these initials?” and “Is it worth it, or is this just one of many situations where a name we love is out of the running for reasons that are unlucky and unfair but it’s nothing A Feeling Of Injustice can change?”

Sometimes there’s an easy fix, like using a C spelling instead of a K spelling, or using one of the two names for one child and the other name for a future child, or your example of switching the names. The 4-initial idea is another such possibility, and I’d say it sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t: it depends on the severity of the Bad Initials, and also on which name is the fourth name. My children and I have four names, and I’ve found that the first of the two middle names is the default initial for one-initial situations unless I specify otherwise. So if the name were, for example, Abigail Sarah Harrison Smith, I would still hesitate to use it—though if I were determined to use Abigail Sarah no matter what, it’s a big improvement.

In your specific example (FKR), I’m not sure. I would want to avoid those letters, but I’m not POSITIVE I would have noticed them as I’m positive I would with, say, FUK or FCK. I do think this is a situation where a fourth initial would improve things, but I’m not sure if it improves things ENOUGH. I was going to have us examine a few possibilities, but of course it’s in our minds now so I’m seeing problems EVERYWHERE! Like, if you’d told me her initials were going to be AFKR, I don’t think I would have been able to see what the problem was—but I’m not SURE, because now that I’m thinking of it I’m seeing it as “a fkr”.

I DO THINK that if I wasn’t in the mindset, I wouldn’t be seeing a problem. EFKR. KFKR. RFKR. I think these work. I THINK.

But it is a matter of the trading and balancing mentioned earlier: it IS a little risky, and what if I’m wrong that adding that fourth initial makes the problem significantly less? So it comes down to how important it is to you to use the names. (And could the K name be spelled with a C? I think FCR is a little better than FKR.)

I think we need a poll here, but I suspect many of you will run into the problem I ran into: once the idea is planted, the letters stand out too much for a detached evaluation. I did a quick poll on Twitter, but unfortunately I used BFKR as the random example—and of course I was asking if there was a problem, which tips things. To me, the BF at the beginning had my mind going in the BFF direction. The overwhelming response on Twitter was, um, a different direction. Someone had a good point that a lot of us are getting used to textspeak, which leads us to be quicker to see words in partial-word letter combinations.

In any case, about 1 out of every 4 responses were that they didn’t see any problem with the initials, and about 3 out of 4 were VEHEMENT amused/horrified responses that they DID INDEED see a problem, with further jokes suggested. But several people mentioned that if they hadn’t been LOOKING, they wouldn’t have seen anything, or that they knew people with similarly problematic initials who reported never having the predicted problem (TheGoriWife knows a FRT who was aware of the potential problem but said it had never come up).

I asked if anyone could think of a first initial that would remove the problem, and most of the responses were again negative: people said no, it was the FKR they noticed immediately, and anything else either changed nothing or made it much worse. But Dashoff suggested: “A ‘J’ or ‘R’ in front would draw me to noticing JFK or RFK instead of the FKR standing out at the end.”

After that quick and informal poll, I find my opinion is going toward “It would have to be REALLY IMPORTANT to use those particular names.” I think I feel the way Lynnette does: she said “I think that one would be a stretch to come to a real conclusion, though I will not use my favorite boy name because : FKD.”

Let’s put a poll over to the right. [Poll closed; see results below.] The question is: GIVEN THAT the parents would prefer not to spell something bad with the initials (that is, we are not voting on whether initials-spelling-things matters, because it DOES matter to the parents), do you think the initials FKR are salvageable with a 4th initial? And if so, please put in the comments section which ones you think would work.

Name update! Cara writes:

Thanks so much for the feedback! Reading your response and all the comments really helped me clarify my thoughts. I realized that I probably wouldn’t be able to forget that when I see the initials _FKR, I see a word, even if other people don’t. We decided that when the baby was born we’d decide on the first name and then deal with the middle name (expecting that we would probably have to scrap the F name and pick something else). But ultimately the whole thing was a nonissue—I was absolutely convinced that we were having a girl (I thought the same with my first and was right), but we had a boy! The F middle name we were in love with (Freya) was off the table. But you can be sure that I wrote out my son’s four initials before we did the paperwork just to make sure I wasn’t missing anything! Thanks again!

Chris writes:

I hope you’ll choose to answer my questions but I’m not holding my breath since they’re so specific and perhaps kind of…insane? The baby is a boy and I’m due in September. My husband is a typical name-vetoer and pretty early on he got it stuck in his head that if the baby was a girl it’d be Harper and if the baby was a boy it’d be Charlie. I wasn’t 100% sold on either name, though I liked them both, so I kept trying to come up with names to add to the list, but he said he would never like anything as much as those two. I really like Charlie, but I worry that Charles/Charlie is going the way of George instead of Henry. Just Old Man sounding and not Young and Fresh. The official name would be Charles so he could have it fall back on professionally if he ever wanted, but we’d call him Charlie pretty exclusively. Charles has been steadily declining over the years…would we be saddling our kid with an Old Man name? I also worry just a little bit about the popularity of Charlie rising as a nickname for girls named Charlotte. I’d hate for our kid to be one boy Charlie surrounded by a school full of girl Charlies.

I have a second question as well – our last name is Lyman (pronounced how you would think: lye-men) which has been super difficult to pair names with – so many strong sounds! It’s ruled out the possibility for any names ending in N for me. I fell in love with Benjamin but would never use it because Benjamin Lyman just sounds so choppy. We’d like the baby to have a middle name that has some sort of family significance instead of just being random, and the name I like best OF COURSE ends in an N: Evan. My grandmother’s maiden name was Evans and I have lots of close family members with it. While I LOVE Charlie Evan, Charles/Charlie Evan Lyman makes me cringe. Like you, I like there to be a cadence and flow to a full name. I keep trying to tell myself that after the birth announcement and any baby blankets that are made, I’ll rarely see the whole name strung together. Am I lying to myself and signing up for a lifetime of baby name regret? Our backups are possibly my husband’s middle of Christopher, Michael as a family name from my side, and William as a family name from both sides.

Thank you so much!

 
The first question brings up one of my hot-button naming issues, which is this: Naming a baby is not a game of King of the Mountain, where a name stays at the top unless it is knocked down by force. That is, your husband may SAY that he’ll never like any names better than Charlie and Harper, but this doesn’t mean that those names must be used unless you persuade him otherwise. It isn’t your job to find a name he likes better while he sits back comfortably and waits; this is a mutual decision, and he too is responsible for questing for names the two of you can agree on. MANY A PARENT has had to give up MANY A NAME because the other parent didn’t want to use it. It makes me a little cranky when one parent seems to be saying, “Hey, it’s up to you: find me a name I like better.”

Okay, now on to the questions you actually asked. No, wait: I have another digression. It’s that Charlie Harper is the Charlie Sheen character on the TV show Two and a Half Men, and is also similar to the name of the artist Charley Harper. I don’t think that rules out using them as sibling names (I’m not sure many people would make either connection except to think, as I did, that those two names sounded remarkably natural together), but it’s the sort of thing I like to think of beforehand, rather than having someone point it out to me after the children are already named.

NOW on to the questions you actually asked. The name Charlie is hard to evaluate: the Social Security statistics don’t tell us how many Charleses and Charlottes are going by Charlie, and it’s hard to say how these names will feel to us later on. And “how a name feels” is so subjective: to me, Charlie is adorable and fresh and goes beautifully with all the Sams, Maxes, and Olivers—but to someone else, it could sound…well, like George (although I think George could be the next Sam/Max).

I notice that although the name Charles is very gradually declining in use, the name Charlie as a given name is increasing in use. And although Charles is declining, it’s still in the Top 100—so at least a Charles/Charlie would have company, whatever the associations of the name.

It sounds to me like you have several legitimate arguments for not wanting to use it:

1. You’re worried it might end up going the Old Man route.
2. You’re worried about the effect of all those Charlotte-based Charlies.
3. You’re not sure if “Charlie Lyman” works.
4. You’re just not 100% sold.

I’d be worried about that second one, too. But without statistics, I don’t know whether I should reassure us or validate our fears. I DO think a lot of those little Charlottes are going to go by Charlie—but I think a lot of them will go by Charlotte, and a lot will go by Lottie. Maybe it will stay a clearly “fine for boys and girls name” like Sam: the presence of a whole lot of Samanthas going by Sam hasn’t hurt the boy name Sam. (Er, I don’t THINK it has. Again, I am lost without statistics to examine.)

Now, as to your second question, again I am unsure! I’ve found I can argue either side of this: I can dismiss arguments that “it’s just a middle name, no one will ever say it” OR I can make those arguments myself. I DO like a name to have a good flow—but I think in the end I put that consideration second place to names I like and names that honor someone. So although my kids all have names that I think flow pretty well, there were some possibilities we considered that would have had a BETTER flow, but we instead went with the honor-name or with the name we liked best. And in the case of my daughter’s name, I think a different number of syllables would have been way better for her middle name—but after Paul agreed my first-name choice for her was his top choice as well, he wanted to use his previous favorite girl name as the middle name, and that seemed more important.

Charles Evan Lyman falls into this category, I think. It doesn’t SING, but it’s not bad. And when I say it repeatedly to myself, I find I come to like it: I know some people avoid having the same number of syllables for each part of the name, but I find I’m very positively drawn to the 2-2-2 pattern.

I feel similarly about Evan Lyman and even Benjamin Lyman: they are perhaps not ideal, but they’re good enough that if you love the names I don’t think the rhythm/sound is a big deal—and when I say them over and over, I come to like them. I’ve noticed when I look over a class list for one of my kids’ classrooms, I’ll see a lot of first/last name combinations that seem Not Ideal—and yet, it doesn’t really matter. And yet another “and yet,” if you said you didn’t want to use them because you didn’t like the sound, you’d find me solidly in your camp: I’ve rejected many a name combination because of issues I DID think were minor—but nevertheless preferred not to choose.

I think for me it must come down to how much I love a name. If I think to myself, “I MUST USE THIS NAME, IT IS THE ONLY NAME I TRULY LOVE”—well then, I’m much more likely to dismiss issues with initials or sounds or rhythms. But if I’m deciding among a list of names I like quite a bit but am having trouble choosing from, well then I’m much more likely to say “Not the one with the initials I.P., and not the one that repeats the ending-sound of our surname.” So if you say to me, “I LOVE the name Charlie Evan, and this means my husband gets the name he wants and I get the name I want!,” then I say to you “GO FORTH AND USE IT!” But if you say to me, “I’m not sure—I like a lot of these names, but none of them seem to work well,” then I say to you “Let’s keep looking! And tell your husband Swistle says he needs to help!” (Maybe Everett or Elliot, if you like Evan? Maybe Jonathan or Christopher if you like Benjamin?)

So, okay, I kind of WENT ON there for awhile. What does everyone else think on these issues? What sort of path do you see the name Charlie heading down, and do you think all the Charlottes will affect that? If you like a name to flow well, what sorts of things make you willing to compromise on that?

Name update! Chris writes:

Just wanted to send in my update to you and your wonderful readers! Thank you for reassuring me about the name Charlie – our Charlie was born on September 29! His full name is Charles Oliver Lyman; I decided to keep looking for a middle name instead of using a family name I wasn’t totally sure about, and as soon as Oliver crossed my mind, I was in love.

Ashley writes:

I find myself in a situation that is likely not terribly unique, but difficult nonetheless. I was due three days ago with our first child, a little boy. He has yet to grace us with his presence, but know the moment is right around the corner. We are truly excited and ready to meet our little man, with the exception of one minor detail: his name. My husband and I have a last name that I find slightly difficult to work with. Peppers. We had decided on the name Everett back in February when we learned I was carrying a son, but met instant disapproval from my mother. In hindsight, we wish we would have kept our decision a secret, but at the time couldn’t really imagine the announcement being greeted by anything other than excitement. We have been sorely mistaken. She has repeatedly campaigned against it from the first moment of sharing. I thought that putting my foot down and telling her the decision was final would stop the remarks, but it didn’t work. It’s as if there was one most terrible, wretched name possible and we have chosen it. I sought wisdom and spoke at length with my husband and we decided that we had the power to change the situation by changing our choice in name. We worked on a short list which included: Owen, Harrison, William, Augustine, Christian, Zachary, Hudson, and Hunter. None of these names just completely grabs us. And we’re now very conflicted about Everett. I really thought I liked it but there are a lot of hurt feelings mixed up with it at this point, and to make matters worse, my family seems to like to pronounce it like “Ev-ritt” with a hill-billy accent. There are clearly some family dynamics that far exceed the scope of our son’s name, but he is due at any moment and we are at a huge loss as far as what direction to go next. I wish I could be really tough and let all of it roll off my back, but I know myself and it will drive me crazy for a LONG time if this is an ongoing source of strife. I’d like the issue to be finished. Other things to consider: My maiden name is Taylor and we would like to use it in either the first or middle name. If we were having a girl, we really liked the names Emma, Grace, Abigail, and Caroline. My husband tends to like biblical names: Joshua, Zachary, Gabriel, Benjamin. I’m really interested in a name that has a nice flow from First to middle to last, and when it’s just first and last and if the first can be shortened to a nickname then nickname and last. We would love suggestions on a strong masculine name First Middle Peppers that might work well for us and our son. Thank you for your help! (and the help of any readers who offer suggestions- wisdom is greatly needed!!)

 
This is a very hard situation. You know and I know that your mother should not be behaving this way. An initial negative reaction would have been bad enough, but to continue to campaign against the name even after you told her it was final is beyond unacceptable.

Nevertheless, she is doing it. While I would like to leap up onto a crate and exhort you that it’s your choice! she named her babies and now you get to name yours! it’s a great name and she will come around to it! stand your ground!—it’s not something I’m planning to do. It’s easy for someone ELSE to say that you should get to use the name you want to use—but such a stance denies the reality of the situation. If I picture my own mother carrying on about a name the way yours is, I think I too would be choosing not to die on this hill. We DON’T really know that she’ll come around to it, and “You should choose the name you love no matter what other people think!” is the kind of advice people give easily only when they’re not the ones living with the consequences. Not to mention that I WANT my mother to love my baby’s name—not at the expense of all my own opinions, but it’s something I’m willing to work at a bit.

One possibility at this point is to involve your mother EVEN MORE: if she’s going to kick up an unending stink if you don’t choose a name she likes, have her tell you which names she likes from your list of finalists. (I don’t recommend asking her for suggestions: you might find that, just as when my mother-in-law delivered a list of her own unasked-for suggestions, they were all from the days when she was naming her own babies.) This could, of course, BACKFIRE LIKE NOBODY’S BUSINESS—but if you want to avoid a name that causes your mother to behave this way, it could also help keep you from jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Another possibility is to choose another name, not reveal it until after the baby is born, and do preliminary work: tell her you’ve changed the name ONLY because she didn’t like it, but that now you’re not telling the name because you don’t want her to spoil it for you, and that whether she likes the name or not it IS THE BABY’S NAME and if she doesn’t like it, you ARE sorry, but she’s had her turn to name babies, and now you and your husband are having your turn and she should be very happy she’s had a veto.

Everett IS a great name. There is a little group of names I think of as being “similar to Everett”—such things are totally subjective, of course, but I wondered if you might like any of them, as I do: Elliot, Emmett, Evan. I like Elliot Taylor Peppers and Evan Taylor Peppers best; Emmett Peppers is a little harder for me to say, and I think the repeating eh sounds might be too much.

Evan makes me think of Ethan. Ethan Taylor Peppers.

For biblical names, I like your husband’s choices (especially Zachary and Joshua) and also:

Adam Taylor Peppers
Jeremy Taylor Peppers
Joel Taylor Peppers
Jonathan Taylor Peppers
Nathan Taylor Peppers
Samuel Taylor Peppers

I also like Henry Taylor Peppers. I think Henry Peppers is adorable. But I have a feeling that a woman who dislikes Everett won’t feel any happier about Henry. I think my own favorite would be Jonathan Peppers, with the nickname Jon.

Name update! Ashley writes:

Thank you so much for responding to my email. Your response couldn’t have come at a better time. My husband and I were resting in my hospital room after just meeting our little boy, still scratching our heads about his name. We thought we’d check to see if there was a response posted on your blog. There was!! Not only that, but there were many helpful responses from kind and thoughtful readers. I am so grateful for how well thought out your words were. I think my husband and I were beginning to notice after reading that we were falling into two different camps as far as the name Everett. He was willing to die on that hill, I was not. This understanding was empowering as we considered our motives and options. For the next few days- while in the hospital holding him, looking at his sweet little face we tried on a few names. We really like your suggestion of Jonathan. He called him that for a day. It just never took. We tried Everett and Owen and neither truly felt right. A dark horse entered the race and moments before being discharged from the hospital we decided to try the name Truman. It worked. It fits our son perfectly. His full name is Truman Taylor Peppers. We use that or Tru or even sometimes Mr. T when addressing him. I think we both felt satisfied finding a name that had little emotional association and that we didn’t already have a slew of opinions about. Truman fits the bill! Thanks, again! We are truly blessed by this precious gift and love our son’s name!!

Thank you, again!

 
Swistle:

What a great name! Thank you so much for letting us know! And, what did your MOM think of it??

 
Ashley:

Thank you! We are very happy with it. I think it’s a good sign that we have no lingering regret or hurt feelings about the previous situation. It had been my fear that we would compromise and hold some sort of resentment. I don’t think either of us feel we did. And for my mother… as far as I know she loves it. She may be so glad we didn’t choose the other name that anything else would seem brilliant, but she did seem truly delighted. What a great way to for an unwelcome issue to come together. Oh, and I noticed someone mentioned pictures, so I thought I’d include one of our handsome little boy. Thank you, again!

Melissa writes:

I am due with my first girl on September 15. My sons are C00per and C@mden. Obviously, their names are matchy (both Cs, both six letters, both surnames). It wasn’t our intention, but that’s how it worked out. To top it off, their intials are also exactly the same. Baby 3.0 does not have to be a C, but if a C works out, we’re good with that. This will, in all likelihood, be our final child.

All that said, our first name list looks like this:

Cara (which we have liked since my second pregnancy)
Calista, nn Cali/Callie
Emerine (a surname from my husband’s side of the family)

We’ve liked the name Cara for YEARS, but after too boys Cara doesn’t seem “grand” enough … like we need something that makes more of a statement. Silly, I know. I am also concerned for her always correcting “It’s a C, not a K.” I like the name Callie but would like a more professional-sounding option for her too. Calliope and Calpurnia are both out, so Calista seems reasonable (and my husband quite likes Calista). We thought we were really on to something with Emerine – it’s a surname! it’s a family name! it seems sort of familiar because of the popularity of Emma and Emily! BUT I don’t like the way it looks. It sounds feminine, but it doesn’t look feminine. The only middle name I found that I really like with it is Grace … but Emerine Grace G1bs0n leaves her with the initials EGG. Nope, not going to work.

For girls, my husband likes “fussy princess” names. Longish, Latin/Greek-rooted name, usually ending in -a or -ah. I generally like German/Hebrew-rooted names (like Chelsea) or fun ones (like Piper). Husband has vetoed both Chelsea and Piper. We like less-popular first names as our last name is quite common and plain.

Other names we’ve discussed and won’t use:

Olivia (too common, Husband obsessed with Olivia the Pig factor)
Malia (I kind of like, Husband does not)
Mariska (both liked but people’s reaction was consistently “Marissa?” which I quite dislike)
Carissa (my husband’s suggestion that I detest)
Paige (too popular, too short)
Carys (Husband thinks it’s weird)

Middle names up for consideration are June, Marie, possibly June-Marie or Junemarie (to hyphenate or not?), maybe Lillian (all family-honoring names).

Personally, I am leanings towards Cara June or Cara June-Marie. My husband is leaning towards Calista but will (in all likelihood) come around to whatever I really want.

Very open to additional name suggestions.

Thank you!

 
I was immediately leaping on alternate spellings of Emerine that might look more feminine to you when I realized it was a family surname name, which means it loses a lot of impact if we change the spelling. If you do decide to use it, I like Rose as a middle name: Emerine Rose G1bs0n. I think Emerine Paige G1bs0n works well, too.

I know you said you’re open to non-C names, but I find I’m drawn to them for you if this is most likely your last child. (If you think it’s more than remotely possible you’ll have another, I’d be more disinclined to lock you into a C pattern.)

Cara and Calista make me think of Calla: it’s almost a perfect in-between of fanciness and length, and you could still use Callie as a nickname.

I think Cadence would fit well with C00per and C@mden.

I like Cecily a lot, and it has six letters just like C00per and C@mden. Cecily Paige G1bs0n, Cecily June G1bs0n, Cecily Marie G1bs0n.

I also like Claire—and again, six letters. Claire June-Marie/Junemarie G1bs0n.

Or Clara. Clara Paige G1bs0n, Clara Junemarie/June-Marie G1bs0n.

Or Claudia. Claudia June/Marie/Paige G1bs0n.

Cleo might appeal to your husband’s classical tastes while being fun and non-frilly for yours. Cleo June-Marie/Junemarie G1bs0n.

A name I recently noticed in The Baby Name Wizard is Carling. I like the way it rhymes with Darling. I like that it’s similar to names like Carli, for familiarity. It’s similar to Cara, but fancier. It’s a surname name. And I think it goes well with C00per and C@mden.

Another is Calloway. It has a pretty sound, like Willow, and it gives you the nickname Callie.

Name update! Melissa writes:

We went in a totally different direction than planned.

Everly Juno joined our family on September 8.

We settled on it just days before her arrival and it took a while for it to “feel” like her name, but we’re very happy with the name and with her – she’s sweet as can be!

While it’s not a “C” name, it is an English surname and six letters (just like the boys’ names). All three kids have a “J” name as their middle name. There’s enough in common to make the sibling set cohesive but she gets to be a little different with her own initial and three syllables :)

Thank you

Kyisha writes:

Months ago a friend shared your blog with me when I was at a loss for my third daughter’s name. Now it is mid June and I am still not in love with anything. The topic of baby names has become a very sensitive and frustrating source of tension in my marriage. He says no to every name… but the truth nothing has felt right for me yet either.

I have read baby name books, naming sites… etc. None seem to help… so I turn to you as my due date (July 29) approaches.

Some insight:

My children’s names are Jase (11), Loralei (4) and Piper (3). Their names work PERFECTLY with their personalities!

I haven’t duplicated an initial yet… so I don’t think I want to.

I want a name that is easy to pronounce and spell but is not popular.

Names I have thought about, but don’t work:

Penolope- out because of the p

Stella- husband said no… I still kind of like it

Harper- I LOVE THIS, but it is too popular lately and the per is too much like Piper.

Everly- I like! My Meme’s names is Beverly and my nana is Evelyn making Everly a pretty combo. My hubby thinks it sounds too made up. I don’t really like either Beverly or Evelyn as they are… enough.

Quinn- I would pick this but hubby knows a man named it and says no. (it doesn’t help that he doesn’t like the man, lol)

Baylee- Cute.. I like the nm Bay. All my kids’ have nicknames: Jase, Lo and Pi or Pipidy.

Sage- I haven’t mentioned it to my hubby yet.

Vayla- saw this on one of your posts… haven’t digested it yet but initially I like it.

Please help! I really want to love get name too!

Thank you,

Kyisha (key-sha) My name has always caused me trouble. People assume I’m a different ethnicity, not that that should matter… but to some it has. It is always pronounced wrong. However, I have always values being unique… never another me in my class. I really want this girl to have the spunk and originality in her name… but still have it grounded enough to be recognizable.

and

Hello Swistle. I know I wrote you before distressed about my darling 3rd daughter being born without a name.

Well, I have now fallen in love with Vivien/Vivienne! So what is my issue? The hubby isn’t 100% on board. He likes the full name but isn’t a fan of the nickname Viv. Our three other children all have nick names, so a nick name is important.

My second concern is the pop in popularity. I read your thorough post about the Vivian trend… and I feel a bit more settled about this issue. Truth is I love the name so much I don’t care about trends!

So, do I trying to get the hubby to commit to a name he isn’t in love with the nick name for?

Vivienne is so spunky, bold and yet still feminine. It marries the two styles of my other daughter’s names. Loralei and Piper.

Help… please.

 
For Vivienne I’ve heard people using Vivi instead of Viv. I realize it’s only one letter different, but it seems to make a huge difference in the style of the name. It’s similar to the difference you’ve noticed between the names Beverly and Everly: one letter makes a huge difference in style and in the assumed age of the bearer. You could also use Vi (older), or Vee (younger).

Everly is still an uncommon name, but it’s catching on quickly enough that I suspect in a decade it won’t sound made-up at all. Already it sounds like Emily and Beverly, which makes it feel familiar despite its uncommonness.

Maybe Ellery? Or Emerson? A similar possibility is Briarly, but I don’t know if any of these would sound any less made-up to your husband, and Briarly and Ellery especially share so many sounds with the name Loralei.

Brinley?

Or Romilly. As I understand it, the name is pronounced with either a short or long O, but the short O is the original pronunciation. Milly makes a cute nickname.

If you want the long O, I think I’d go with Romy instead. Fewer mix-ups, and you’d get the nickname Ro or Mimi.

I also like Fiona for you.

Or Zoe.

Or Sloane—I think I like the idea of adding a long-O sound! But no nickname.

Or Juniper, though it repeats the -per of Piper. I think it helps, though, that it’s three syllable instead of two.

Or Beatrix, which has both Bee and Trixie.

Another possibility is Imogen (IM-ah-jen). I think it goes well with the other children’s names, and it’s uncommon but not made-up. I recently read a novel in which the character named Imogen went by Immy, but Gen would work too, and on a previous post someone suggested the nickname Mo.

Elodie would be pretty, and it has some of the sound of Penelope and Stella.

Scarlett would work, too, I think.

Or Madigan: unusual, yet familiar in sound because of Madison and Madelyn.

Name update! Kyisha writes:

Swistle and followers. Thank you so much for your help. Our daughter, Willow Elizabeth was born July 29th. After all that stress, the name just fell out in conversation a couple of days before she was born. It fits her perfect. Our family is complete with Jayson, Loralei, Piper and Willow.