{"id":15599,"date":"2021-10-20T09:21:04","date_gmt":"2021-10-20T13:21:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/?p=15599"},"modified":"2022-04-20T06:53:59","modified_gmt":"2022-04-20T10:53:59","slug":"baby-boy-kstler-brother-to-jck-rowdy","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/2021\/10\/20\/baby-boy-kstler-brother-to-jck-rowdy\/","title":{"rendered":"Baby Boy K!stler, Brother to J@ck: Rowdy?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Hi Swistle,<\/p>\n

We are expecting a baby boy in January and are going back and forth on a limited set of names, influenced by one name’s meaning in particular. Our last name is similar to K!stler, but switch the s and t, and make it a bit more obviously Dutch in spelling and pronunciation.<\/p>\n

This will be our second child – older brother is J@ck (just J@ck, a nod to his paternal line of Johns, including great-grandpa John-called-J@ck), middle name Br0oks which was just a name we both liked as a middle. We likely would have named a girl Marg0t M3rryn, though I was about 10% hesitant on that; it\u2019s still in the mix for a potential third child.<\/p>\n

We agreed early on in this pregnancy that this baby felt like an 0liver, and we were just debating middle names for a time. William and Clair were on my list – male family names on my side, which feels fair since J@ck got a family name on my husband’s side. But while watching swimming during the summer Olympics, one of us joked about Rowdy as a name, after Rowdy Gaines. I should note that we are big Olympics fans and named our dog after Bode Miller, the Olympic skier.<\/p>\n

Well, the joke settled and soon Rowdy felt like an actual possibility – it really, really grew on us. We like the sound of it with our last name, we like that it’s different, we like the nod to the Olympics. The problem is that Rowdy is also rowdy, the adjective. The most positive definition of rowdy is “boisterous” and the worst is “disorderly” or “disturbing the peace” – ouch! We as a family are not really the disorderly, disturbing the peace type, although boisterous suits. What if our child is not disorderly or boisterous at all and we’ve given him this name? Or, because I do believe in the power of words, what if we define his personality by giving him a defining name?<\/p>\n

So, maybe it goes in the middle spot, and for a while we have been leaning towards 0liver first, Rowdy middle, with the possibility of calling him Rowdy as he gets older if the name suits. Ok, that’s settled.<\/p>\n

Except: we are smitten enough with the name (the sound, not the meaning) that we’ve been referring to him occasionally as Rowdy – just testing it out, as one does – and we like it. A lot! But I don’t feel like naming a kid one thing and calling him another, from birth, is the right move for me. I felt that way strongly with J@ck – my husband (who is the fourth named son and does not have John anywhere in his own name) lobbied for another John-called-J@ck, and I said well J@ck is enough of a name itself that if we know we’re going to call him J@ck, I’d just prefer to make it his official name. If we really think we’re going to call this baby Rowdy, I feel we should make Rowdy his given name. We’ve discussed this, and have come to like the idea of Rowdy first, Clair middle. The first time my husband suggested that, my gut said wow, that’s a name! Followed quickly by, am I brave enough to do that? It feels like two names that both require explanation.<\/p>\n

Swistle, what are your thoughts on adjective names? I guess I’m also asking your thoughts on planned nicknames. Are we brave enough to give our son an adjective name with a meaning we don’t fully identify with? Or do we go with the safe choice, and approach the adjective name as a middle-but-potential-nickname?<\/p>\n

Thank you for your insight!
\nLaura<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

 <\/p>\n

I think it has happened only three or four times on this site that I have said an unmitigated “No” to a name, and I am saying it to the name Rowdy. I can see why it appeals, but it resoundingly fails the “Would I want this name for myself?” test—to the point where it also fails the “Would I want to encounter this name on someone else?” test. Speaking of tests: have you tried The Starbucks Test, where your husband goes to Starbucks or any coffee\/food place where he has to give a name with his order, and tells the clerk that his name is Rowdy, just to see how that feels and what the reaction is? Sometimes even just IMAGINING doing that can be enough to make the issue clear. Another test is to go to a public place and imagine the name on each male person you see. Does it work on the awkward Target clerk? How about on the middle-aged man in a business suit? Is there any real person other than an attractive world-famous athlete on whom the name seems like a blessing?<\/p>\n

The word rowdy has negative connotations, as you mention, and it feels too lightweight as a given name. (As an aside: it is refreshing to say this for I think the first time ever on this site about a name being considered for a boy.) It could fit the child’s temperament very well or amusingly poorly, and all of the possible fits will lead to other people making the same tired comments again and again. It feels like a joke, like giving someone the middle name Danger or Trouble; or a caricature, like if you wanted a name to mock the untamable sexy cowboy character in a fake over-the-top romance novel. The “brave vs. safe” framing is unhelpful, and sets up a false choice: you have many more options than those two; and if you decide to go with a name you consider brave, it doesn’t have to be Rowdy.<\/p>\n

Rowdy Gaines’s parents’ naming style seems to have been the exact opposite of yours: they named their child a name they never intended to use (Ambrose, after his father Ambrose-called-Buddy) and called him by a nickname instead. This is an entire category of naming practices you specifically want to avoid. And just on top of everything else, you believe in the power of words. This makes for a very poor fit with your naming preferences, and is leaving you feeling stuck.<\/p>\n

You mention having used Olympic athlete names for pets, and I think Rowdy would be perfect for that: you’d get to use the name you love, and say it many times a day, and it could be the given name and not have to be a nickname or middle name. (And it’s beautifully parallel to the name of your dog Bode, since Bode Miller is ALSO an athlete going by a name other than his given name. …Er, not that even Swistle pushes for coordination\/consistency among pet names.) I also think Rowdy works beautifully as a Fetus Nickname: many parents continue to call their child by the pet name Teddy or Bear or Jellybean or whatever, long after giving them a completely different name on the birth certificate.<\/p>\n

I feel as if this is a situation where suggestions of similar names will not work: there is something specific about the name Rowdy that is tugging your heart, and me suggesting Grady and Riley is not going to ease the pain of what I think is the necessary next step, which is Letting Go of the Name. Still, just in case you want the list later, or in case other parents are reading this post, let’s list a few:<\/p>\n

Brody
\nCasey
\nChance
\nChase
\nCody
\nEmmett
\nEverett
\nFinn
\nFlynn
\nGage
\nGrady
\nLee
\nLeo
\nLiam
\nNolan
\nRanger
\nReid
\nRiley
\nRory
\nRoss
\nRufus
\nRyder
\nSam<\/p>\n

Some of these I wouldn’t necessarily pair with a name like J@ck—but J@ck and Riley seems really nice to me, or J@ck and Reid, or J@ck and Casey, or J@ck and Lee, or J@ck and Leo.<\/p>\n

I think it might also help soothe your heart to consider the names of other athletes you like, though it can be tricky to evaluate names in that context.<\/p>\n

On another note, I am hugely interested in the idea of using the middle name Clair for this child. I have complained in that past that our culture finds it very positive\/appealing to take names traditionally used for boys and use them for girls (there are so many baby girls right now with the middle name James), but not the other way around. You are an exception to this, and it thrills me to see it. (I will add that when using the middle name Clair\/Clare\/Claire, I tend to avoid first names that end in an -y\/-ie\/-ay sound, because of the eclair effect. But I don’t consider it a hard and fast rule, because eclairs are a positive association and the eclair effect can be charming.)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Name update:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hello Swistle! I wanted to follow up and share with you that 0liver Rowdy was born in January. We appreciated all of your feedback and ideas, and honestly the strong reaction against Rowdy (yours and in the comments!) not only moved it out of consideration for a first name but also made me rethink whether I wanted to use it as a middle. My husband remained in support of it as a middle (turns out he knows a Rowdy?!), but it threw me into a bit of a crisis and he deferred to me. 0liver Clair just felt too stuffy, and I found I just didn’t like any other middle names with 0liver, so we ended up coming up with a completely different first and middle name set for a while. But in the end, we both just kept coming back to 0liver Rowdy. I was prepared for a negative reaction to the name but it’s actually been overwhelmingly positive. Most people who ask assume that it’s a family name, and I have to admit that I kind of love that now it will be. I was surprised by how many people know of a Rowdy in one way or another \u2013 famous people, real or fictional, or even a few on a personal level. Some friends have taken to calling him Rowdy after all, which is fine with us; he will tell us if he likes that or not as he gets older. We mostly call him 0liver, or 0llie as a nickname of endearment. Sometimes Pouty Rowdy when that cute baby pout comes out. We’ve decided to define rowdy for ourselves as “spirited” and “boisterous” which feels positive and suitable. So far he\u2019s a sweet, happy, chatty, and loud(!) little guy. Thank you for talking me out of it as a first name, but I am also very glad we stuck with it as a middle!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Hi Swistle, We are expecting a baby boy in January and are going back and forth on a limited set of names, influenced by one name’s meaning in particular. Our last name is similar to K!stler, but switch the s and t, and make it a bit more obviously Dutch in spelling and pronunciation. This […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15599","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-name-update"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p3iyiG-43B","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15599","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=15599"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15599\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":15846,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15599\/revisions\/15846"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=15599"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=15599"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=15599"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}