{"id":12201,"date":"2016-07-06T07:49:10","date_gmt":"2016-07-06T11:49:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/?p=12201"},"modified":"2019-08-21T18:39:36","modified_gmt":"2019-08-21T22:39:36","slug":"baby-naming-issues-using-iii-when-dad-is-ii-instead-of-jr-a-middle-name-for-a-girl-named-stone","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/2016\/07\/06\/baby-naming-issues-using-iii-when-dad-is-ii-instead-of-jr-a-middle-name-for-a-girl-named-stone\/","title":{"rendered":"Baby Naming Issues: Using III When Dad is II Instead of Jr.; A Middle Name for a Girl Named Stone"},"content":{"rendered":"

Hi Swistle!<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve heard of binge watching TV shows, but I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever spent hours binge reading blog archives until I stumbled upon your site. As someone who is slightly obsessed with baby names, I was instantly hooked. I have two questions and I won\u2019t be upset if you chose to only answer one portion, but I hope you answer both!<\/p>\n

First. Hubby is a second (II). James II to be precise. From the beginning, he told me that he didn\u2019t want a James the third. However, now he has thrown me a total curve ball and is dead set on a Third. Normally, I wouldn\u2019t mind. I actually think it\u2019s kind of adorable. I even love the nicknames for a third (Trip or Trey), and am more in love with the idea of calling my baby JJ or even Jay as he gets older. Many options. Adorable. Here\u2019s my only problem. Everything I have ever read has led me to believe that hubby\u2019s mom did it wrong. He should have been James Jr., not James II because he is named after his father. I\u2019m sure she just didn\u2019t know any better. (And it\u2019s never come up in our personal lives apart from my stealth internet research). BUT a part of me feels like continuing this name is perpetuating the improper usage of the name suffix. Like maybe it looks like I didn\u2019t know what I was doing when I named my son the Third because his dad should have been Jr. but wasn\u2019t. Is this pretentious? Maybe. Am I overanalyzing this? Would this concern you or your readers? Am I wrong? (I would LOVE to be wrong but my understanding is that Jr. and II only maybe become interchangeable when the Sr. dies?) I read your post about nicknames for the fourth (IV)<\/a>, which was very helpful in educating me, but I\u2019m still not sure. Granted, I know that the whole Americanization of the lineage names has departed from the original royal usage purpose, so any modern use of Sr., Jr., III., etc. is probably not technically correct. But I\u2019m still spinning my wheels on this one! Help!<\/p>\n

Question number two: Stone is a family name that has an incredible amount of meaning to me. It is the last name of my grandparents who are both still living and are like second parents to me. Obviously it was my mother\u2019s maiden name. And now it is both mine and my brother\u2019s middle name. We don\u2019t share the same surname so this was our mother\u2019s loving way of linking us. My grandparents had three girls- my mom and her two sisters. They are all married with children who took their father\u2019s surname. The Stone surname has ended for our family which is crushing to me. We are the Stone Family. (Not to be confused with The Family Stone! Ha). Anyway my point is, my aunts, uncles and cousins all identify as the Stone Family despite having a different name. I will take future hubby\u2019s surname and keep Stone as my middle. It is woven into my very being.<\/p>\n

I LOVE the name Stone as a first name. Love it. I used to love it as a boy\u2019s name and it looks like about 150 or so boys have been named Stone each year for the past few years. But someone said to me in passing once, \u201cOh Stone would be a pretty girl\u2019s name.\u201d And, Swistle, that rocked my world! It took a couple years of careful pondering but now I am sold. (Hubby is not so sold, but I think I can get him there). I just know my future little girl\u2019s name is Stone. To me it feels so sweet and smooth for a little girl, rather than rigid or tough or even cold when I think about it for a boy. I picture a gemstone, smoothed until it shines. I can see her with ribbons in her hair playing with her friends at school. I can see her as a sassy teenager and I can see her as a mature, strong adult. Your post on Atlas<\/a> also helped with this, so I\u2019m not so much asking whether you or your readers could see this as a name. It is a name. Although, from what I can tell, less than 10 girls per year have been named Stone in recent years, but I love that also. I love that it is unique but not made up. It is fun but not overly cutesy. Full disclosure- I am Emily. I have been desperate for a unique name my entire life, but obviously never got it. I am giddy over how unique a girl named Stone would be.<\/p>\n

Here\u2019s where I need your help.<\/p>\n

A. The middle name. With Stone as a first name (somewhat masculine, one syllable, word name), I am stumped as to a middle name. Surname is @llcorn. Just like if you said I ate all the corn at dinner. My thoughts have been that the middle name needs to be a pretty traditional feminine name. Like Stone Margaret or Stone Eleanor. I don\u2019t think either of those are it, but just for illustration. Stone Rosemary or Stone Willow won\u2019t work because I don\u2019t want her to whole name to be objects. I am drawn to middle names with vowel sounds since Stone is so consonant-heavy. Like Stone Elizabeth or Stone Isabelle. Alice and Ellen are family names that I love, but Stone Alice or Stone Ellen sound too short and choppy to me. Hubby\u2019s fave family name is Pauline nn. Polly but I\u2019m not a big fan of that name and don\u2019t even think it would work here.<\/p>\n

I just know that you have the key to all my problems!<\/p>\n

B. The sibling names. I love classic names. I love the names of my generation\u2019s grandparents. Ruby, Sophia, Henry, Charlotte, etc. Other than my potential James III, boy names I love are George, Michael, and August (though I LOVE August for a girl too. Maybe I have a thing for traditionally masculine names for girls?) August is a family name for me too so it\u2019s pretty high on my list, but I don\u2019t see as much of a problem coming up with middle names for either gender. My point is, the rest of my children will not be named Slade or Onyx or Kynleigh. Those names are beautiful, but the classic names are my style.<\/p>\n

So, thinking back to question one, or to any future children, will Stone work with my little JJ? To me, Stone is almost as traditional as these other names because it has been such a hallmark of my family for as long as I can remember. Other people probably see it as trendy, but I don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Also, I am a big proponent of use it or lose it when it comes to names, so if I only had boys, I would still go with Stone. But for purposes of this question, I am only considering the possibility that my Stone is a girl. So to recap, names for future children that are high on my list (I hope to have three):<\/p>\n

James III (JJ)<\/p>\n

Stone (girl)<\/p>\n

August (boy or girl)<\/p>\n

Alice<\/p>\n

George<\/p>\n

Hopefully this gives you an idea of my style. Does Stone work with these options? Am I crazy? Will my little Stone wake up one day and wish I had named her something common like Emily?<\/p>\n

Thanks for all your help and for providing such fun reading material!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

 <\/p>\n

I have good news about the suffix situation. From what you’ve told me, it does sound as if your husband’s parents should have used Jr. instead of II: in current U.S. usage, Jr. is used when a child is given the exact same full name as a parent, and II is used when a child is given the exact same full name as a non-parent. But! Sr. and Jr. are the only non-numerical suffixes in the line-up: after that, it goes III, IV, V no matter what. That is, let’s say your husband had been named for his grandfather or uncle, and so he was indeed supposed to be a II: in that case, his son would be a III. Or let’s say your husband had been named with the Jr. suffix: in that case too, his son would be a III. Either way, III is correct and no one will think you did it wrong. If I encountered a family where the dad was a II and the son was a III, I would assume the dad was named for his grandfather or uncle—and that’s if I gave it any thought at all.<\/p>\n

Now, a middle name for Stone. For middle name challenges, I like to start by figuring out what sort of syllables\/rhythm situation I’m looking for. I said “Stone _____ @llcorn” again and again, changing the hm-hm-hm sounds in the middle until they seemed good to me. My favorite was the “four-syllable name with the accent on the second syllable<\/a>” category which, luckily for my current self, my past self set up a whole post for. Here are some of my favorites:<\/p>\n

Stone Amelia @llcorn (SAA)
\nStone Elizabeth @llcorn (SEA)
\nStone Honoria @llcorn (SHA)
\nStone Olivia @llcorn (SOA)
\nStone Victoria @llcorn (SVA)<\/p>\n

These weren’t strong preferences: almost all the names on that list sounded good to me with Stone.<\/p>\n

But I also think there are a lot of other names that work with Stone and aren’t in that 4-syllable\/2nd-syllable mold:<\/p>\n

Stone Bianca @llcorn (SBA)
\nStone Celeste @llcorn (SCA)
\nStone Josephine @llcorn (SJA)
\nStone Louise @llcorn (SLA)
\nStone Mariah @llcorn (SMA)
\nStone Yvette @llcorn (SYA)<\/p>\n

And so on.<\/p>\n

With my own babies, when I’d narrowed down to a first name but was having trouble choosing the middle name, what I liked to do was take a baby name book and just go through it fast (in sessions, if it was a long name book), sort of skimming while saying the name combinations very rapidly, pausing only to write down any that seemed like they’d work. So for example, if I started at the beginning of The Baby Name Wizard<\/a>, I would be saying under my breath: “Stone Aaliyah, Stone Abby, Stone Abigail, Stone Ada, Stone Adair, Stone Addison, Stone Adela…” Tastes will vary tremendously, of course, but in my own case I would have paused at Stone Abigail. I would then say “Stone Abigail @llcorn” and see if I liked THAT. And if I did, I’d add that to the list. Then I’d go right back to the skimming: “Stone Adelaide, Stone Adele, Stone Adeline…”<\/p>\n

I think it is very smart of you to be thinking ahead to sibling names. I think particularly if you name a FIRST daughter Stone, it will not be too difficult: it may attract interest and questions (especially if you have a sister pairing of Stone and Alice), but “It’s a family name” is in my experience the best ever eyebrows-lowering explanation. If you happen to run into a Swistle type, she will have an almost bottomless interest in any further details you feel like sharing—but most people will drop it right there.<\/p>\n

If you have only boys, I think JJ and Stone work very nicely together, especially with their similar levels of family honor; they’d be excellent for twin boys. JJ, Stone, and August works particularly nicely for brothers, I think, but I also like JJ, Stone, and George. I think you’re okay here.<\/p>\n

As to your last question, a girl named Stone may indeed one day wish you’d named her Emily, just as an Emily may wish to have a name like Stone. There is no way to predict it ahead of time when we’re making a decision for someone else, someone we haven’t even met yet, so all we can do is make what seems to us to be the best decision, and then be flexible and understanding if the child later disagrees. I would not want the name Stone for myself, but it doesn’t have the meaning for me that it does for you, and that can make all the difference: if she grows up with a significant chunk of her family tree thinking she has the best name in the universe, she’s going to feel differently about it than if the name did not have a family connection. If you have tried the Starbucks test (i.e., ordering your coffee and giving “Stone” as your name to get a feeling for how the name will be perceived); and if you are on-board with the other issues that are a package deal with this particular name (being mistaken for Sloane, being mistaken for a boy’s name, the startle factor of being so unusual, the verb usage of stone\/stoning, the association with stoners and being stoned, etc.); and if you have a wonderful naming story to go along with the name (which you do); and if you have made sure you are picturing the name on a wide variety of people and not just on a particular type (I like to go to a mall for this, and picture the name on every woman or girl who passes by); then I think the only other thing I’d do is something you’re already doing, which is to select something more common\/traditional\/feminine as the middle name. A child may grow up to dislike ANY first name, but with the ones where it feels more like a gamble for whatever reason, I like to increase flexibility by giving a middle name I wouldn’t mind if the child ended up using as a first name.<\/p>\n

I’d also like to bring up the idea of using Stone as the surname for the children, especially as you say it’s the end of the line for that branch of your family tree. I realize this is a long shot, especially with a husband who wants a III, but I think it’s good to keep in mind that this sort of thing is an option.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Name update:<\/strong><\/p>\n

My amazing little boy Stone Jameson @llcorn was born July 2018. I can’t tell you how thrilled I am that we decided to go with Stone. I now concede that it worked out best that we used our favorite name for a boy, although I’m just stubborn enough that I would have probably used it for a girl. My grandfather passed away 8 months after Stone was born, and his name became all the more an honor name to the patriarch of our family. It has meant so much to my family in a difficult time. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Hi Swistle! I\u2019ve heard of binge watching TV shows, but I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever spent hours binge reading blog archives until I stumbled upon your site. As someone who is slightly obsessed with baby names, I was instantly hooked. I have two questions and I won\u2019t be upset if you chose to only answer […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-12201","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-name-update"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p3iyiG-3aN","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12201","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=12201"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12201\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":14312,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12201\/revisions\/14312"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=12201"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=12201"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.swistle.com\/babynames\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=12201"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}