Hello! I know you are probably inundated with requests, but… I have been twirling this issue around in my own mind until I’m about going crazy, and I wondered if a another perspective or two would be helpful. Your recent post about how to honor an Adolf and what naming practices are actually honorific made me think of writing to you.
I’m due with a baby girl in July. I have always liked the name Charlotte, but when it zoomed up the charts I totally crossed it off my personal list. Logically I know that popularity isn’t what it used to be, and that no name (even the #1 name) is going to be like Jennifer in its heyday. But still, I admit to feeling a bit superior to people who use names in the top ten, as though they were lacking in imagination or something.
Until. I was talking to my grandmother the other day about names and casually mentioned Charlotte (actually more as a red herring than anything, since I didn’t feel like sharing names I was seriously considering). She responded that it had been the favorite name of my great-grandfather as it had been his own mother’s name. I guess he loved it enough that he even used to offer each of his children/grandchildren $50 to name their daughters Charlotte! (There were no takers; there are no Charlottes even in my very large extended family.) Now, this great-grandpa was very important to me and lived with our family from when I was 14 until 17. I loved him dearly and have wanted to honor him in my one of my children’s name in some way (although his name of Loy Frank left me puzzled of the best way to do that, since “Loy” and “Frank” were not my favorite options).
So, now I’m feeling much more torn. I feel like giving my baby the name Charlotte might honor a man whom I loved very much by giving her his favorite name, plus it’s a family name since it belonged to his mother. It’s a name I like anyway (probably because it’s the great-great-grandmother’s name, rather than anything less distant!). And I kind of love the story that he offered to give his posterity $50 to use it. However, I’m not sure how much of an honor name that it would actually be – it’s his favorite name, not his own name after all.
So I suppose my question is this – do you feel like using a favorite name is enough of an honor that it would override popularity concerns? Does the fact that he essentially campaigned for the name to be used by his posterity make it more honorific? I feel like if the situation had been that it was my beloved great-grandmother named Charlotte herself, rather than my beloved great-grandfather whose favorite name was Charlotte, there would be no question that popularity would be over-riden. However, is the “honor” of a favorite name great enough to override the consideration of popularity? I am especially curious since Charlotte, while a classic, has certainly been “spikey” (for lack of a better term) recently and could easily head to #1. I am unsure if that name will tie her to a time period in a way that another classic, but less “spikey,” name would do. I know I could move it to the middle spot and that would solve the popularity problem, but that feels to me like it removes the honor in this situation since his wish was clearly to have one of his own posterity use that name as the first name, not the middle.
I would love to hear any ideas you may have. My husband doesn’t get interested in thinking about names until a few weeks before birth, so he’s not really any help and I’m kind of going crazy trying to consider it all on my own. For what it’s worth, her older brothers are Colton David and Graham Jacob; their firsts are names we loved, their middles are after my husband Dave and my maiden name of Jacobs (I ditched the “s” to avoid having him sound like a law firm with three surname-names). I’d love any thoughts you have! Thanks!
My usual test is to ask “Does this name make you think of the honoree?” My guess, just reading your letter, is that from now on, every time you hear the name Charlotte, you are going to think of that story about your great-grandfather, whether or not you use the name yourself. So my short answer is yes, in this case I think it works as an honor name, and since you liked it ANYWAY, I think this could give you that last little shove.
I think the story of your great-grandfather offering money to his descendants makes a great naming story. Many of us are not close to our great-grandparents, but you were, and this seems like a fun way to remember him, especially since you are not keen on his actual names. Plus, it was his mother’s name. I think I would tell the story roughly as it happened: “We loved the name Charlotte but felt it might be too popular to use. Then I found out this family story, and that was enough to push us into using it.”
But you may find as you think about it over the next few months that it’s NOT enough to give you that last little shove. You’re right about the name’s recent popularity (it was #10 in 2014; within the next few days we should be finding out from the Social Security Administration how the name was ranked in 2015) [follow-up: #9 in 2015], and that may continue to bother you even with this added reason to overlook it. Or you may find you like the other names on your list more, and that they meet more of your preferences.
As you know, I am not especially keen on messing too much with honor names for my own use. But I don’t mind playing around a bit with other people’s options. For example, Francesca Loy would be a pretty cute name: uncommon, great nicknames including Frank and Frankie. Colton, Graham, and Francesca.
I think Loy in general makes a workable middle name. Possibly not one we might choose out of a baby name book on its own merits, but a definite honor name, and one that appeals to me as a middle name with many girl names. Margaret Loy. Carrigan Loy. Fiona Loy. Audra Loy. Piper Loy. Delaney Loy. Ruby Loy. Miranda Loy. Harriet Loy. Eleanor Loy.
Name update:
Hello! I emailed you a few months ago about whether using someone’s favorite name would be considered an honor name. Our baby girl was born a few days ago and a day after she was born we finally settled on her name. After all that time I spent worried about picking a name that was too popular, it’s kind of funny to me that both the names we gave her are in the top 50: Charlotte Ella. I loved Charlotte and it is meaningful enough to me that I wanted to give her that name despite its popularity, and Ella is her daddy’s favorite name that he really wanted to use. Thank you to you and your readers for reassuring me that hopefully she will find her name meaningful, as I do, rather than trendy. In the end, we both got to use our favorites and we love her name. We plan on calling her Charlotte sometimes and Lottie sometimes, and we feel it suits her perfectly. Thanks again!
I’m wondering what you mean by your question: Is the fact that it was your great-grandfather’s name “enough” to override its popularity? As Swistle said, only you can decide whether it’s enough for you, and whether the tie it gives you to your great-grandfather will outweigh the feelings of superiority you might have preferred to feel over people who choose popular names. So that question isn’t really one up for any public response.
As for whether it will be enough for your daughter, I strongly think no. If I meet a Charlotte, I will respond to her name as very popular for its time. If she tells me that she’s named after her great-great-great-grandmother, I will presume that her parents did not know that relative personally, and that they chose the name for non-honor reasons. If she goes on to tell me that Charlotte was her great-great-grandfather’s favorite name, I will wonder why he didn’t use it for one of his own children (since it sounds like he had at least one daughter).
Now, if this fact gives you the internal push you need to use a name you love anyway, then I’m all for that! But I doubt that it will change anything about the way the name is received by anyone but you–including, probably, your daughter herself.
However, it is lovely! I have a cousin named Charlotte, and before the name started zooming up the charts, I used to lament that I couldn’t name a baby Charlotte for this reason (I prefer to stay away from family names where possible).
I’ve got to disagree. I think it’s very likely that the daughter will care about the story of where her name came from.
If I found out that someone who was named after their great-great-great grandmother, I would assume that family was particularly important to that person’s parents, and I think would think it was cool that the person knew their great-great-great grandmother’s name.
And I definitely don’t see any reason to doubt how much the great-grandfather wanted Charlotte to be passed down…lots of people develop more of an appreciation for tradition as they get older, or find that it feels more natural to skip two generations with honor names instead of just one, or don’t get to name their daughters after their mothers because their wives would prefer not to.
Building on what Kerry said, maybe great grandpa’s wife really hated the name Charlotte for whatever personal reason (or didn’t get along her MIL). It happens.
No, I agree with you!. I think the daughter will care, and that it will be a sweet story for her. But I think she will still understand it to mean that her parents loved the name Charlotte, and I don’t know that it will give her the sense (apparently desired by her mother) that she has something other than a Top 20 name. I understood this letter-writer to be asking whether the fact that the name has a family origin makes it not also read as a popular name.
With every question about honor names, I always consider the question of whether we’d still be having this discussion if the parents didn’t independently love the name. I find it hard to imagine that we would ever hear a parent say, “We named our daughter Charlotte despite hating the name, because it was the favorite name of my great-grandfather.” The fact that the parents LOVE the name is the reason it’s in the running (just as the fact that this LW doesn’t love the names Loy and Frank might push them out of the running). Anything else, including that the name was loved by the great-great-grandfather, is icing on the cake.
Plus, this is a question about whether this somehow matters, specifically in the context of her not wanting to use a popular name–and that seems to me to be a question about how the name will be perceived, not about how the LW herself will FEEL about the name! If you know what I mean. :)
I actually named my son an honor name (for my grandfather) despite not liking the name. I loved my grandfather and now love my son, and think on the name at this point with a great deal of affection.
Hmm, that’s an interesting way to look at it.
I think, with the backstory, it reads about 5% less as a popular name to strangers. They might remember the story, and it might change how they feel about the name, but probably most people won’t and the ones who do probably won’t change their opinions by much…and their opinions will be so insignificant anyways it will hardly even matter. (One similar example I can think of is that I know of a little girl named Aria, and I do think about it differently because I know that her mom picked it because of its significance in her culture, even though it’s also a trendy name).
It’s hard to predict how it will read to the daughter, because personalities differ so much. I would say it’ll read anywhere between 20% and 100% less as a popular name because of the backstory. If the daughter dislikes common names (which is a big if), I think she will at least enjoy being able to tell herself, “I might have a common name, but most people’s parents just picked it because it was popular and I have a cool story,” (this is the 20% scenario) and it’s possible that she’ll focus more on the ways the backstory makes her name uncommon, “Anyone can be named after their grandmother, but I’m named after my GREAT-GREAT-GREAT grandmother!” (that’s the 100% scenario).
Original poster here. I think the intent of my question is a little hard to convey over email, or at least I struggled a bit to say what I mean. I suppose mainly I wondered whether using this name would even be considered an “honor name,” because it’s not a direct tie the way using the persons name itself would be. I’m not concerned so much with having anyone else have the perception that it’s not a popular name – that would be ridiculous because it IS a popular name. More like, I wanted at the very least my daughter and those I care about to understand that the name had a deeper significance than just being popular, and I wasn’t sure whether this would seem like a significant reason to anyone besides me (which I why I asked the question to get a response from a broader audience). Most of all if I choose to give my daughter a popular name, I want her to know that it’s because of the meaning behind it and not just because it was a stylish choice to make at the time. As for strangers I meet or casual acquaintances, I don’t really care and if they think it’s just a popular name that doesn’t bug me.
Thanks for clarifying! If it’s just about what you and the people close to you will know about the name, then I certainly think it’s possible that you could convey to your daughter your reasons for choosing it. And it WILL make for a cool story for other people close to you. If you don’t care about the general perception (which may or may not be able to detach Charlotte from its popularity, and you may or may not care to make the argument as you’ve made it here), then you are golden, in my opinion. :)
This reminds me of a family I know with a 8 year old named Madison. The mom has griped about it being a family name and hating how popular it is. I think, “really? Surely they it was very trendy/popular and chose it partially because it was in style.” There is nothing wrong with liking a name that is in style, but if someone has issues with that, like you do, having this name connection may not be enough of a tie to an honor name.
OMG name this baby Charlotte! It’s perfect and the story is adorable. What a sweet way to honor your great grandfather.
Ditto this. The honor name and it’s honor-ish-ness is a fairly personal thing, frankly, so if you are delighted by this story and you think your great-grandfather would have been delighted too, then do it! Charlotte is a bit spiky (possibly in part because of the royal baby), but it’s also a revival with other older connotations — Charlotte’s Web immediately comes to mind — so it won’t be quite as time-stamped as some of the trendy names that are brand-new creations.
Also I think it’s fine to remind yourself that popular names are popular because many people like them. That means many people will like your daughter’s name too. As name nerds we can be a little smug about eschewing the overly popular, but it’s ultimately silly to ditch a name you love just for a little bit of naming street cred.
I read the title and thought ‘no, that seems like a very tenuous honor’. But your great-grandfather’s story sold it for me! I think this would absolutely be an honor. Not just for your great-grandfather, whom I assume is gone, but your grandmother, who remembers this about her father (or father-in-law?). As for people asking about the name, I wouldn’t say “it was her great-great-great-grandmother’s name” I would say “it’s a family name my beloved great-grandfather loved SO MUCH he would offer family members money to use it!”
Since you already have two kids you must have an idea of how regionally popular Charlotte is in your area. I don’t know a single baby Charlotte locally.
I have a similar name story in my extended family. A nephew’s wife gave their second son the middle name Lee because it was her grandfather’s favorite boy’s name. She had been close to her grandpa and had chosen it to honor him. (I can’t recall why her grandfather never used the name; maybe he had only daughters and liked the name just for a boy.)
It sounds like the connection of the name Charlotte to your beloved great-grandfather is strong enough that you would often remember him through the name. Because you liked the name very much even before you found this out, I would encourage you to strongly consider using it. I think personal connections to a name trump almost everything else, even popularity. If you want your daughter to have a less popular name, you could call Charlotte “Lottie”, a sweet, old-fashioned but not overused nickname for Charlotte.
Reread your letter, which brought to mind that we also have a 3-year-old girl named Franklin “Frankie” in our extended family. Frankie was named after her mother’s grandfather Frank. When I first heard her name, I was rather skeptical about naming a girl Frankie (I didn’t know until just this week that her given name is Franklin), but now I think the name suits this spunky, cute little girl very well. That might be an option for you as well.
I’m wondering what your great-grandpa would choose if you could ask him whether to use Charlotte, his mother’s name, or incorporate some form of his name in your daughter’s name. I’m guessing he would prefer to have his wish of carrying on his mother’s name, as he had wanted to do, come true all these many years and generations later. Your daughter would be fortunate to have such a special story about why she was named Charlotte. Even though Charlotte is becoming very popular, for you, it is not just a name you’re drawn to but a beloved name from your family tree. I wouldn’t be able to use any other name after hearing your great-grandpa’s story.
I hope you’ll let us know what you name your baby girl!
I’m wondering if Loy was your great-grandfather’s name on his birth certificate or a shortening of it that he preferred. Just looked up Loy and found that it’s a shortening of Loyal or Lloyd. (Not that it probably matters for naming a girl…)
If you want to honor him twice, Charlotte Frances or Charlotte Loy are both nice. But if you’re only going to go with one name for him, I’d honor *his* fervent wish that a descendant be named Charlotte for his mother — easy for you to do since Charlotte is a name you love too. That would leave the middle spot open for choosing a second name that you also love.
I enjoy genealogy and find your story so special.
OP here. Thanks for taking the time to comment! Yes, Loy Frank (Lastname) is the name on his actual birth certificate. I know that he was extremely fond of being the only “Loy” he’d ever met; for that reason I’ve always considered using Loy as a middle name for a son (although I suppose it was down the line, since I wanted to honor my husband and my maiden name with my first two boys). I had never considered using the name for a baby girl, which is giving me lots to think about. I can’t know for sure because he passed away when I was 17, but I do *think* he would be particularly pleased to have his favorite name used if we’re only going to do one or the other. And I love the nickname “Lottie,” good suggestion!
I was also going to suggest Charlotte Frances! It’s beautiful. I also like Swistle’s suggestions of longer feminine first names paired with “Loy” as the middle.
Use it use it use it use it use it.
Even if it wasn’t his favorite name, I think one of the best ways to honor an opposite sex family member is their mother or father’s name. It’s a way of showing that the people who were important to them are important to you by extension. If Charlotte is your daughter’s name, it will help her understand not just how much you loved your great-grandfather, but also how much he loved his mother…which might help him feel like a real person to her.
The fact that it was his favorite name, and there’s such a great story attached to it, is even better.
Also, it occurs to me that Lottie is a less common nickname for Charlotte, and Lottie is just a tiny skip away from Loy. Could Loy be a nickname for Charlotte, or could Lottie or Lo be close enough to Loy to feel significant?
For what it’s worth, I’m totally with you on the illogical feelings of superiority about not using Top 10 names. But at least in my case, it leads me to also be hyper aware of all the other ways my daughter’s names might be considered “trendy,” such that getting out of the top 100, or even the top 1000 wasn’t enough…what helped was having a family connection to the name, because families are the opposite of trendiness much more than following the trend of wanting a unique name for your baby is.
Yes!! I came here to say Charlotte nicknamed Loy is completely intuitive to me AND mitigates the popularity concerns because those OTHER Charlottes will be going be Charlie!!
Wasn’t there an actress named Myrna Loy? Loy seems glamorous to me. Do it!!
Will be going *by*
OP. Interesting! I had never considered a connection between Charlotte/Lottie/Loy. I’ll have to keep that in mind. Thanks! And I’m glad I’m not the only one who has those illogical feelings about the most popular names. Logically I know it’s stupid and ridiculous, but… there it is. At least I’m not alone. :)
And just to go crazy on this theme, you could absolutely choose a middle (maybe a significant family name like your sons’) that accentuates the vowel or y so that you can “get” to Loy even easier. Like Charlotte Eloise, Charlotte Lola, Charlotte Ottilie, even Charlotte Mary or something that ends in Y.
I would not use Charlotte today because of the popularity. But if you love Charlotte, this story is a good reason for using it.
I do like the suggestion of Francesca. Francesca Charlotte is lovely.
This story is absolutely delightful. All caps delightful! I completely think it works as an honor name (the offering money part pushes it firmly in that category for me).
I know what you mean about not using a top ten name and feeling a bit smug. I am the same way. What finally pushed me to use my favorite name was asking myself this: If I do not use this name, will I feel a little heartbreak and wistful and regretful every time I hear this name out in the world? For me the answer was a resounding yes, so I used the name.
OP. I just wanted to say I love your comment of “all caps delightful.” And the offering money was kind of what sealed it in my head as an honor name as well. I’m glad to see there’s a few of us smug namers, but you’re right that choosing a significant name that I love should be more important. I’ll have to think carefully about how I think I’d feel NOT using the name, that’s a great way to help decide. Thanks!
I have the same situation – my grandmother once told me that she always loved the name Marie, and that she always wished she was named Marie. Consequently, I’ve always associated the name Marie with my grandmother and I am expecting a baby and plan to give her the middle name Marie as an honorific. It may be an honorific only I understand, but that’s ok.
I love this story and think you should absolutely use Charlotte and consider if you will regret not using it. We have a similar story. We decided to name my third child and first daughter Katherine. When we mentioned the name to my grandfather, he was delighted because it was his beloved mother’s name. She had always been referred to as “Grandma K” in my hearing, so I was completly unaware of her full name. We also discovered that the day we found out I was pregnant with her (an extra special day as she was a long time in coming ) was Grandma K’s birthday. My grandpa died a few months after my daughter was born and he reiterated how thrilled he was that his mother’s name would live on in another generation. My gut tells me that you will appreciate the connection even more as your daughter ages. AND yes Charlotte is popular, but I only know one and I know three Grahams under six, so it’s just one of those things that you can’t predict. Charlotte is a lovely name and goes well in the sibset. :)
This is a tough one. A few thoughts:
– we gave my oldest daughter a name that we loved, that also happened to honour 4 lines of her family. We didn’t know any kids with the name, but after she was born, we quickly realized there are actually a lot out there, it’s probably at least Top 50 in my particular area. The fact that it’s a family name is only very slightly a balm to the annoyance I feel when I hear it out in the world. We’ve moved to a new area and I swear I hear it at least once a week. I hate it. I love the name and it suits my daughter, but I do not love how popular it is. I wonder how she’ll feel as she ages.
– this, however, brings up a point about the popularity of a name. I do not know many kids with the top names, but I know multiple Sydneys, Violets, Islas, Cassidys, Marlos. So you can’t use the stats alone. You may avoid Charlotte in favour of Frances only to find there are two other Frances in her kindergarten class but you never meet a Charlotte. As a PP said, you probably hear enough names out and about with two kids already.
– now to the issue of whether a favourite name of an honouree still works as an honour. Charlotte is honouring your great-grandmother and the fact that your great-grandfather loved it so much is just a bonus. As long as your daughter understands it, that’s all that matters. I don’t think she’ll be asked ‘how did you get your name?’ as much as the next person, because it’s understood to be quite popular plus she’ll more likely get ‘like the princess?’ If anyone does ask, she can say “I’m named after my great-great-grandmother. My great-grandfather actually loved the name so much he offered his children and grandchildren money to use the name on future generations! My mother loved him very much and always loved the name, but didn’t hear the story of how he loved it until she told my grandmother how much she loved my name. After that, it was impossible not to use it, right?” A lovely story to tell, whenever someone actually wants to hear it.
If it were me though, I’d find another name I loved and put Charotte or Frances or Loy in the middle spot. Good luck! Can’t wait to hear what you land on.
The stars have aligned to give you a beautiful name, which you like, that will honor two family members, AND which comes with an adorable story. How much better does it get? If you’re worried that other people will pooh-pooh the connection, so what? It will mean a lot to you and your daughter, which is what really counts.
Charlotte Loy!
If it makes you think of your great-grandfather then it’s definitely and honor name. I love the story that goes with it.
This is how I got named!
My mom’s beloved grandma had a very terrible and very dated first name. Basically, she was going to be named Elizabeth but a spinster aunt guilted the parents into naming the baby after her. My great-grandmother HATED her first name and always wanted to be called Elizabeth. My middle name is Elizabeth in honour of her.
When I was growing up I loved this story and made me feel like my name was special (even though Elizabeth is a super popular name). I would 100% name your daughter Charlotte and tell her about your great-grandfather.
OP. Thank you for commenting! My main concern is whether my daughter would find it to be a name that is special and meaningful, even if she happens to meet quite a few other people with her name through her life. I’m glad to hear from someone in a similar situation that they DID feel like it was special.
My story has to do with popularity. My.middle name is Marie, which is common enough in my generation to be nearly generic. But it’s my name because I had one great grandmother named Maria, and one named Mary, and my mom combined them to come up with Marie. I love that story so much, my eldest has a mashup of my grandmothers’ names as her middle. I always felt that *my* Marie was different than the gabillions of other Marie middle names out there because it was a blend of my heritages.
And if I can feel that special over a middle name, I can guarantee your little will feel her name is special, too.
I think you might be a long-lost relative of mine… Or maybe me in a weird parallel universe??
I’ve always loved the name Charlotte. Top of my list since I was a little girl. My grandpa (my mother’s father) loved the name as well. His dear sister, whom he adored, was named Charlotte. He pleaded with his wife to name one of his 10 children Charlotte, and my grandma said no. He pleaded with all the children to name a granddaughter Charlotte. 40 grandchildren later and not one Charlotte. So I always thought I’d be the one to do it! He’s 93 and I have 2 boys so far. Pregnant with number 3, gender unknown. Soooo, basically… Hey there, life twin. Haha.
Also, I think Charlotte is a great choice for you :)
OP. I’m glad I asked the question – it’s like Swistle giving a two-for-one deal because seriously, that is a crazy number of coincidences in our stories. I love that your grandfather is still alive too, so perhaps if you get your Charlotte he’ll be able to know about the honor personally. I’d love to have you write back in when you find out if you’re having a boy or a girl!
I think Charlotte does work as an honor name in this case. It’s a great story that you were close to your great grandfather and that he really wanted a family member to use the name Charlotte.
I know the name is popular, but thinking about all the kids I know from church and a couple of schools and library storytime, I don’t actually remember any of them being named Charlotte. Popularity is a funny thing like that. Like my daughter’s name was around #350 when we picked it and she’s currently in a 5th/6th grade class where there is Rose, Rosa and Rosie.
I do like the nickname Lottie too, if you needed to have something less popular. (Our cat is named Lottie.)
I also think Francesca, with the nickname Frankie is adorable and a good way to go if you wanted an honor name.
I think it’s also helpful to think about this from the perspective of a future older relative…
Even if it’s not really a thing now, wouldn’t it be great if honoring your older relatives by using their favorite names became a thing?
Shannon’s response is spot-on. People will still respond to Charlotte the way they respond to children with popular names. That will not change because there is a story behind it. But, it seems that the letter-writer loves the name, knows enough about names to not want to use a popular name, and has now found a story that validates the choice to use a name she loves despite it being popular. This is something we always have to weigh when naming, regardless of whether there is a personal story/history involved. We like names that are popular because they are popular. So there is always an inherent choice there between whether we go with what we like or avoid it since other people like it. What the story DOES do is reframe how the letter-writer/namer experiences the name when/if she uses it for her daughter. Instead of thinking of it as having chosen a popular name, she can think of it as having honored a family member. And that internal validation, the story we tell ourselves about how the name came to be, is worth a lot.
Charlotte Loy! Or Charlotte Francesca! Or Charlotte Francine! And put photos of each of the honorees (your great-grandfather and his mother) in your daughter’s nursery, and include the sweet story in your birth announcements! Francesca/Francine/Frances Loy would also be precious. And Loy could also absolutely work as a nickname for Charlotte, if you really want people to hear the honor name first: “This is Loy, short for Charlotte. She’s named for my beloved great-grandfather, and his beloved mother!”
Here’s another idea. What if his favorite name weren’t Charlotte, but (say) Wilma, or Shirley, or Albertine? If you heard he loved that name more than any other, and he begged and bribed, and nobody used it…would you use it, in his honor?
I feel like the answer to that might be illuminating. There’s no reason the answer has to be the SAME as for Charlotte. But thinking about this scenario with a less-beloved name might give you a sense of what you believe counts as an honor. Maybe you think Shirley is the worst, and 100% unusable, and you’d stick it in the middle with a sense of sacrifice. Maybe it’d drive you to use Frances, Francesca, or Francine instead. Maybe it’d just be a sweet story you’d tell your daughter Fiona Grace, and she’d name her daughter Shirley when it comes back around.
Deb (OP), I forgot to also mention that my grandpa’s name is Monroe Frank! That was the biggest coincidence of all!! Same last name! Total weirdness… And my second son is Francis (we plan to call him Frank once he gets a little older, but I’m enjoying Francis right now). We won’t be finding out gender until babe is born :) I can’t wait to hear your update!!
-Twin
I haven’t yet read the other responses, but I want to immediately respond by encouraging you! I think it is a far greater honor to choose a name that speaks to the very heart of someone’s personality, preferences, opinions on life, and wishes, hopes & dreams than to choose a person’s actual name (which his or her own parent chose for whatever known or unknown reason). Naming your child Charlotte is going straight to who your great-grandfather was as a human being. Naming your child Loy or Frank is recognizing the file name marking the folder that contained all the contents of of the man. Does that make sense? Charlotte, Loy, and Frank all draw a connection back to the person you loved and each of them would be a lovely way to make the statement that this man matters enough to you even now that you want to recognize and celebrate him. The Charlotte idea sounds more special to me, not less. I think it is delightfully wonderful that you had such a rewarding relationship with a great-grandparent; I don’t know many people who claim that.
My great-grandmother was very special to me and died when I was eleven. I stated from that time forward that I would name a daughter after her and I did. I used her surname as my first daughter’s first name. That great-grandmother’s first daughter was extremely dear to me throughout my life and I was fortunate to have a far longer relationship with her. She was still living (at 104!) when I gave birth to my fourth daughter and I gave that daughter my great aunt’s first name in the middle spot. So first daughter’s middle name after the mother and fourth daughter’s middle name after the daughter. All four of my daughters’ first and middle names are honor names, but these two feel like the most direct connections to me. I definitely like the names themselves, but the honor was even more important.
The great-grandmother had a unique and lovingly tended rock collection. Her children and people she knew form church and her neighbors brought her rocks from all over the world as they travelled and they would include brochures about the nearby area or descriptive letters explaining where a rock was found. For a woman who never learned to drive and rarely travelled, it was a nifty way to learn about other places. She carefully labelled each specimen in her neat handwriting and nestled the smaller rocks into various containers for display in a cabinet and lined large heavy ones all along the perimeter of her back steps, trees, yard, etc. As a child, she would let me choose one to examine more closely, and would carefully extract it from behind the glass, and let me hold the pillbox or whatever held it while she told me about the rock, from where it came, who brought it to her, etc. If it was a really sturdy one, I might have held the rock itself. Out of eight children and all their descendants, I am the current keeper of what’s left of the collection. If I had named my daughter “rock,” it would have been a far more personal connection and a better indicator of who this strong lovely lady was than the surname I listed on the birth certificate as my baby’s first name. To answer your question, yes, I think that Charlotte counts as an honor name for your great-grandfather. Anything that was dear and meaningful to him in a way that mattered enough to repeatedly tell others about and to attempt to persuade them to appreciate would be a testament to who he was as a person. To use the name of a woman who raised such a neat guy? A woman he wanted to see honored? Who also happened to have had a beautiful name? I think it would be tough to turn down that opportunity.
For the record, I also think it would be absolutely awesome to use Frank or Loy. I also think it would be absolutely awesome to use some name that you notice in a movie credit next week and can’t get out of your head. You can always honor your great-grandfather by telling your baby stories about him – including the one about how he used to try to bribe relatives to name babies after his mother. Maybe one of your children will use the name Charlotte:)
As always, so interesting and I LOVE how the OP is commenting! If it were me, I would definitely use Charlotte if it felt right, but I would choose something entirely different for her middle name (not Frankie or Frances or Loy). I think 2 honor names – even if their origin is not exactly the same – is too much. And also, if your daughter doesn’t like Charlotte/Charlie/Lottie, she could choose to use her middle name which is all her own. You could use something traditionally “middle-y” – Anne, Lynn, Marie, Rose – or just a 2nd name that you love, whatever that may be. I’m quite partial to Natalie… haha. Or there’s Jillian, Evelyn, Lillian if those n sounds appeal. Religious names such as Miriam, Rebecca, Sara all sound nice.
I’m a “smug namer” myself…that is, I WAS one! I had a baby girl in December and what did I name her? …Olivia! I had loved it well before it became popular, and it just felt right. I had to tell myself that it is popular for a reason–it is because it’s a beautiful name and so many people like it! So while there will be people out there who probably think I am not creative, there would have been more people out there who disliked my choice of name if I had picked something uncommon. I see several names on my FB feed where I question what they were thinking…at least this way, it’s hard to say anything bad about Olivia (and in your case Charlotte) aside from that fact that it is popular. And even though it is popular, any time I tell a stranger her name, they always tell me how beautiful it is. I think Charlotte would be the same way.
You liked Charlotte already and now it reminds you of your beloved Grandpa, too. Go for it!!
We named our son Kerry even though around here it’s a rare name and usually considered female, because I’ve loved the name for guys since elementary school and it was MIL’s favorite brother’s first name and DH’s middle. (We have a good relationship with MIL.)
It definitely counts as an honor name!
Are you considering using Charlotte (or Frances(ca)) in the middle, though, since with your boys you the honor name is in the middle? If so, popularity is a non-issue. I’m curious what other non-honor first names are on your list.
I have similar elitist thoughts to you about people who choose very common names, but mostly when I know they like the name just because it’s popular. Having the same name as you and being in the same age range, I’m surprised you don’t have more love for popular names. I HATED having a “mom” name. I would have much preferred to be one of the generationally-appropriate Jennifers. So with that, I think the popularity of Charlotte is a good thing!
Oh, you have to use it! Your great grandpa will finally get his name chosen! What an honor that is, really. And after his mother, too. It’s such a sweet story. I was also a smug namer, but I named my second son a very common name after my dad, who I love and admire very much. I think that my association with him trumps the popularity. Plus, although the name Charlotte FEELS very common, when I try to think of little charlottes that I personally know, I can only come up with two. It is a beautiful name and I have always liked it a lot.
I’m a 25 year old Charlotte (it was an honor name) and I grew up while the name was still unpopular. Instead of loving that uniqueness, I loathed it. I hated that I could never find those name magnets for the fridge.. or keychains… or mugs, etc etc. (Obviously as an adult I have gotten over this haha.) I guess my point is that there’s a risk with absolutely any name you choose that your daughter will end up mildly displeased with it, at least temporarily. You could give your baby a name that falls outside of the top 100 and she might be upset that she’s the only one, or you might give your baby a name from the top 10 and she might feel the opposite. BUT with your particular story, I think Charlotte is the perfect honor name. The story of great grandpa offering his grandkids money to name their babies after his mom is unbelievably sweet, adorable, and hilarious. I can’t see your daughter not feeling special and totally delighted by that story, regardless of the popularity of her name. (I also think choosing a top 10 name that has a classic feel is different from choosing a “trendy” name. Charlotte is very popular right now, but it’s also an old, classic name. It’s got a different feel – to me anyway – than Jayden or Aria or Nevaeh, etc.)
Ohhhhhh, I’m so glad you went with Charlotte! A beautiful name choice for a beautiful baby girl! God bless you all!