Hello Swistle!
I’ve been following your blog for a long time, well before marriage, children, and the like. I never imagined needing your assistance, given my long lead time on coming up with a name, but here we are, seven weeks out from the due date (11/7), and I’m getting cold feet (about the name, not the child. Whew.)
We are keeping all names close to the vest, so I find myself unable to talk through any of this with someone, and it’s beginning to play with my 3rd trimester brain. I would so appreciate your thoughts. We are not finding out the gender and would like to go in with 2 names for each and see what the wrinkly little person looks like. We’re good on boys; need some help & possible reassurance on girls.
I am a Sarah and my husband’s name is Michael, nn Mike. (Yes, why we are two children of the mid-80s!) My name is a family name, after my father’s sister who passed away (she went by Sally). Both our middle names are our mothers’ maiden, which is a traditional special to us that we thought we’d continue, though it hasn’t happened in our picks thus far. My maiden name is She@n, pronounced Shee-h@n. Mike’s middle & his mother’s maiden is Un, a name with origins in China. We are from Catholic families (mine Irish, his Filipino) and as such, have some names that are very common to us that are off limits because we do. not. need. another. Patrick.
We feel pretty confident about our boy names: Oliver Hind3ry Am0s and Theodore Francis Am0s. Oliver is a name we discussed about in hushed tones and excitement the night we got engaged, when we spoke about our potential baby names for the first time. Hind3ry is my middle name, my mother’s maiden, and a side of the family that to which I am extremely close (much closer than to the She@n side). It would ‘sub’ for our maiden name tradition. Theodore (nn Teddy or Theo) is a name we are drawn to and in doing genealogy research, found out my husband’s great grandmother was named Teodora. Francis is my grandfather’s middle name, and he was such a special man that it’d be wonderful to have my son share part of his name. Putting the honor in the middle feels like a special secret between the generations.
Girls… enter the cold feet.
We had settled on Margaret Un Am0s. My mother and sister are both Margarets (Margie and Megie, respectively) and it’s a beloved but not overused name in my family. (Most, if not all, have gone by nicknames, including Peggy). Since it would be an honorific first name, I would not use my maiden or my middle name/mother’s maiden, as then it would be the exact name of either. (Bridge too far.) She would share a middle name with my husband and have matching initials, MUA, with him and her paternal grandmother. It’s good, right?
The hang-up with Margaret is the nickname. I had, for years, liked Molly for Margaret, even though I know it’s not traditional. (I’m blatantly stealing the nickname from Mary, but see Catholic roots above. No more Mary’s please!) But now I’m getting nervous. It feels so… cutsey. I think the “y” ending is throwing me. Can we have a Judge Molly? A President Molly? A Molly who walks into a boardroom of older men and is taken seriously? How much, if any, attention should we pay to the slight drug association? Many of the common nicknames of Margaret (Meg, Peg, Maggie, etc.) are off the table for various reasons. My husband has veto’d Greta. Is ‘Mim’ too out there as a possible nickname? On a scale of one to very, how desperate do I seem?
The other girl name is Audrey Amos. I do love this name, have a dear childhood friend as the only Audrey I know, & enjoy the alliteration since I was a Sarah She@n for so long, but we are stuck on the middle. Audrey She@n Am0s sounds so serious – I think? Hind3ry is too many “y’s”. Adelia is a family name from waaaay back and I do like it, but it just doesn’t feel as special as I have no ‘real’ personal connection to the ancient Adelia.
I have, in the past, liked more unisex names for girls, like Emerson and Addison, but they are not my husband’s cup of tea. I’d love to honor my grandmother, Wanda, but I just can’t with the Wanda.
We plan on having 3-4 children and unused names from this round will likely be future contenders.
I hope you have time to read my novella and share with your blog. I simply cannot think my way out of this one!
In your debt,
Sarah
The very reason many parents give for using a full name on the birth certificate is that the child then has something to fall back on later if the nickname is not serious enough. So for me, “Is Molly serious enough for future serious professions?” is not even a question that needs to be addressed: if it is not serious enough, she will be able to use Margaret. Judge Margaret, President Margaret, Margaret walking into the board room. No problem here.
The drug association, I also dismiss. It is fully possible that there are people whose first association with the name is drug-related, but I doubt this applies to a significant segment of the population. Even people who DO first associate the name Molly with drugs are surely also familiar with it as a girls’ given name, and so would not react as if you’d named your daughter Cocaine or Marijuana. Names such as Jack and John have far worse slang associated with them, and yet the names persevere.
A bigger concern for me is that you say all the usual nicknames for Margaret are off the table for one reason or another. Many children do go their entire lives using the nickname their parents selected—but many others choose a different nickname. However, maybe the nicknames are unavailable for reasons that your daughter will agree with, or maybe you mean they’re off the table as PLANNED choices but would be completely acceptable as just-came-about-on-their-own ones—things like, “My sister goes by Meg, and that would be confusing,” where it would not be the nickname you’d choose, but it would be completely fine if your 17-year-old Molly decided to be Meg when she started college.
You don’t specifically mention the nickname Daisy, though that may be included in “etc.” That one has some of the appeal of Molly, and seems like a particularly fun, Little-Womenesque choice in a family where there is also a Grandma Margaret and an Aunt Margaret.
Mim seems as connected to Margaret as Molly does, so I don’t see any reason you couldn’t use it—but I don’t see the advantage of using it instead of the nickname you prefer. One advantage of Molly is that a lot of people are confused about which seemingly unconnected traditional nicknames (Peg, Polly, Molly, Sally, Daisy, Jack) go with which full names, and my guess is that a fair number of people would think, “Oh, right, Molly is one of those seemingly-unconnected nicknames for Margaret”: I did it myself for a moment, and I’m more interested in names than the average person.
By the way, I like your whole concept of expanding the mother’s-maiden-name-as-middle-name tradition to include more maiden names. I think traditions end up being most pleasing and least burdensome when they’re FLEXIBLE. I think if I were you, I’d use a different family maiden name for each child—for the fun of it, and also to preserve as many family surnames as possible. Since the children will have their father’s surname, I’d be inclined to choose more names from your side of the family, but I wouldn’t be opposed to choosing an equal number from each side. (I would, however, be careful not to choose more from the father’s side.)
Audrey is also a great choice. I don’t think Audrey She@n Am0s is any more serious than Margaret Un Am0s, so that’s what I’d go with. Audrey Un Am0s seems like another good option. Or if you decide not to use maiden names for everyone’s middle, Audrey Frances would be a nice way to honor your grandfather. (But I’m very fond of the idea of a bunch of maiden names.)
I do think it’s most likely that this is cold feet rather than serious hesitation. Margaret and Audrey are both wonderful names with significance for you, and they go beautifully with Oliver and Theodore.
Name update!
Hi Swistle!
A quick update from the newborn haze: Margaret (Molly) Un Am0s made her way into the world on 11/09. The minute she landed on my chest she was a Molly; I just KNEW. (We didn’t even talk alternatives. After the difficult labor, my husband would have let me name her ‘Bob’ if I had wanted.) Thank you for all the thoughts, support, and wonderful nickname suggestions for Margaret. This blog and your readers are the best.
Cheers,
Sarah & Mol
I have a Molly Claire. I had the same concerns about “grown-up” Molly. My brother has several adult, professional women friends named Molly and assured me that she would be fine.
On the other hand…this generation of kids tend not to have nicknames anyway. My husband’s (also Irish) family is one of Margaret’s (grandmother Peg, aunt Meg, and more back in generations), but the newest Margaret (age 10) is just that–Margaret. No nickname. It doesn’t seem odd at all, and I know many kids in this generation that are fully James, William, Michael, or the like.
Being a Margaret myself, I thought I’d throw my own nickname into the mix, as I didn’t see it listed – Margie.
Lots of people pronounce it with the ‘g’ being the sound from Marge Simpson….but the pronounciation I’ve always had and which I’ve come across quite a lot is with the ‘g’ sounding like in the word egg. ‘Margie’.
I’ve also shortened it to just Marg during teenage/uni years and I’ve mixed and matched using my full name and my nickname at different points and different contexts.
I know someone using May as a nickname for Margaret.
1. My niece’s name is Molly. My sister-in-law had the same concerns, but decided she could put them to rest after watching Candi Crowley moderate the presidential debate. Whenever I have similar concerns about a name, I remember that one of the most successful women I work with (at a university, not a strip club) goes exclusively by the nickname Teenie.
2. I’m pretty sure I read on the internet once that Metta can be a nickname for Margeret (I think mostly in German?). Mae, Retta, or Rhett might also give you something that isn’t Meg but is more grown-up feeling. Although Mae might be too similar in sound to Meg. Maisie? I’m sure you’ve thought about it already, but it is very similar in style to Molly while being less of a leap from Margaret, and it would shorten easily to Mae later on for formality outside the family.
3. Audrey is one of my all time favorite names and I like the alliteration connection it would give you with your daughter.
Ooh, I love the idea of using Rhett as a nickname for Margaret! Sarah the letter writer did mention that she likes unisex names for girls. Happy medium? I think yes.
I’ll admit that Molly for Margaret seems off to me. But, I am one of those people who knows more about names than most. I doubt the majority of people would have any clue, or even question if Molly is a traditional nickname for Margaret or not. Molly may not pass the Supreme Court Judge test, but I agree having Margaret as a given name makes that a non-issue.
I’ll second the suggestion of Daisy, or what about Margo? I know a McKayla who goes by Emmie (as in M, her first initial). Perhaps something like Emme or Emmie could work for you?
You are willing to break the maiden as middle tradition for a boy, so I think perhaps this could be a solution for the problems you are having with both Margaret and Audrey. Audrey Margaret Am0s is lovely. I think it sounds a bit more feminine/softer than Audrey S__ Am0s (though I don’t think Audrey S__Am0s sounds too serious to use). It also eliminates the nickname issues you are having with Margaret.
I’m also a big fan of cross-gender namesakes, so I adore Swistle’s suggestion of Audrey Frances.
I second May. Garet (I have a good friend Margaret who goes by this)? Gretchen? Maggie?
I wouldn’t worry about the nickname not being serious enough if there’s a full name for fall back. How about Maisy for Margaret? As for your grandmother, maybe using her middle name or her first and middle initials? W is kind of limiting, though. Willow doesn’t seem your style. Willa’s closer but not quite. Wilhelmina nn Mina, perhaps?
You could rearrange the letters in Wanda to get A. (as in Audrey) Dawn, maybe…
Nameberry also says that Wanda is derived from wanderer (duh, I guess?). If you’re into whimsical nouns as middles, either Wander or Wanderer could work really well for either a boy or a girl, I think.
Sorry I’m having way too much fun coming up with creative ways to honor a Wanda. How about:
WAverly Nora Delia Am_s
love all of these suggestions!
I don’t have any trouble with Molly for Margaret, and that’s the entire point of having a nickname, so she has Margaret to fall back on. I don’t think Audrey She@n is too serious at all, either, though I do like Audrey Margaret or Audrey Frances a bit better. They’re both perfectly wonderful names that suit your family, and I think it’s just pregnancy brain getting the better of you.
Since you are Very Catholic, have you also considered confirmation saint’s names of relatives? That could give you another list for tribute middle names. (Unless they’re all Mary and Patrick.)
We almost named a daughter Margaret, because it is an awesome name and because of the nickname possibilities. I myself was leaning towards Metta, with appreciation for Greta and Meg.
We also strongly considered Sonia bc we are especially fond of the Supreme Court. It might be reassuring to you to know that Sandra Day O’Connor went by Sandy in her personal life? Also, can I plug Ruth? I think Ruthie is fabulous on a child and on adults with certain personalities, and Ruth is a fabulous underused solid name.
I am wary of giving my children names that have potential nicknames that I find displeasing and my own preference is that Maggie is not a sound I’d want to hear for my child. But the kicker for me was my MIL announcing that she herself would ALWAYS call a child with a name like Margaret by Maggie. This wasn’t a hypothetical, a close friend was considering naming a child Victoria and my MIL influenced them not to bc she (and likely others?) would only call the child Vicki and used Margaret/Maggie as another specific example Which. Let’s not go too deep, but instead consider how this could affect your life, and maybe save Margaret for a future child?
We eventually name our daughter Maia. Maya Angelou was named Marguerite, but my husband didn’t go for that. Also, if you want the Margaret honor without the Margaret, how about Pearl?
I so love the idea of using different maiden/honor names for your kids middle names. That’s what we have done with our kiddos/future kiddos. Keeps a close family connection :)
I personally love Margaret for you guys. I’m not sure d you’ve considered this but what about Margo?? That is my favorite nn you can pull out of Margaret. Plus is spunky and fresh. I don’t think Molly is anymore of a stretch for Margaret as it is for Mary. Also, as swistle pointed out, if she needs a more professional name, she has one, so I wouldn’t give that angle another thought.
I also wanted to comment that I love Oliver and Theodore as well! Our little guy is Oliver and I’m so glad we choose it. He mostly goes by Oliver, the odd time Ollie. Theodore is also a great name. I feel like all your selections, boys and girl names, also have the same feel if you end up using them all for future kiddos.
Good luck and keep us posted! Go with your heart not your hormonal brain!!
Ooh, I like the Margo suggestion!
I have always liked Mimi as a nickname for Margaret. My personal impression of Mimi is not super-cutesy, but rather sort of academic and sophisticated. Also, for me, Mimi Amos has a really fun alliterative quality that might be too much for some, but you said you liked having an alliterative name growing up and Audrey Amos is your other choice.
I’d reassure your jitters with the following mantras: “both names are great,” “we’ll know when we see her,” and “besides…we’re having a boy.”
Good luck in the final days!
To comment on the above, if you liked Mimi the Mimi I knew was Amelia nn. Mimi – which in some way seems like a hybrid/compromise between Margaret and Audrey?
Margaret + Audrey = Amelia nn. Mimi lol!
For the Margaret/Molly debacle, personally I could see using Molly for Margaret. Mainly b/c SO’s sister is Margaret and their cousin (his moms sister’s daughter) is Molly. So for a long time now, I’ve seen that as completely separate names.
Molly DOES work though for grown ups – just as much as Tiffany, Stephanie, Henry or any other “ends in e sound name does.”
I know you say you’ve ruled out a lot of the nicknames for Margaret.. and that makes me want to throw out some more unusual or uncommon ones in case one will work? Madge, Maret, or Rita?
*couldn’t see using Molly for Margaret.
sry typo!
Would your husband go for a unisex nickname? I had a female middle school counselor who’s name was Marty and I was captivated by that name for a girl. I have since met a few other female Marty’s and still really like it. I believe it’s a nickname for Margaret, but if it’s not a traditional one I don’t see why it couldn’t be used for it. Either way I love the use of family names and think you have some good ones to choose from. Good luck in making a decision!
I think Molly Frances would be adorable…also I think Mim is a great nn for Miriam. If you want to keep more of a connection to Mary/Margaret, maybe Marian/Marion or a bit more unisex, Merritt.
What about Meredith? It’s almost a good compromise between Margaret and Mary.
Mae, Maesie and Marta can also be nns for Margaret.
What about Mary-Margaret Un Am0s? Mary-Margaret is about my favorite double-barreled name for a little girl and it gets you to Molly. I too have the Catholic over-used name issue in my family (though we’re Italian so we have too many Tonys) but Mary-Margaret seems distinct from Mary.
Letter writer here — funny enough, my mom is a Margaret Mary! I do love the name, but I think it’s out because of the close connection.
How about Mara as a nn for Margaret? I also like the suggestions of Mae and Maya.
I also like Audrey Margaret, Audrey Frances, Molly Frances and if you are really keen on alliteration… Molly Margaret. I am not keen on nicknames that are not related to the actual name for someone unless it is something that just happens later on do to the childs attribute, etc. I do however like the nn Pearl for Margaret because it means pearl. I would not name a child just to get a certain nn because you don’t know if they will even like that nn or prefer to go by their given name which I tend to see more often lately. Something to consider about carrying on your surname/middle name naming tradition is if your child chooses to keep her maiden name as a second middle name she will have three last names and only have one regular name with nothing to fall back on in case she doesn’t like it. Good luck!
Another Catholic here (Irish/Italian) with similar name taste to you! Margaret has been at the top of my list forever, with the nickname of Maisie. I’m aware that Maisie is what I would call her up until she was old enough to feel like it sounded “young” and then we would switch back to Margaret (or whichever nickname she liked). I love Peggy, Maggie, Margie (Mar-gee), etc. You have great name choices and great honor name options, just know that you’ll be fine no matter which way you go!
I love to idea of incorporating confirmation saints too! We indirectly (and somewhat by accident) honored family members by choosing their confirmation names as our childrens’ names.
I can’t wait to hear what you choose!
I don’t think Molly is too much of a stretch with Margaret, and I think it is a fine name for an adult too. I have a Mary, and really really wish I could use Molly (can’t, family reasons) but I am attempting to talk myself in to Maisie. If you want Maisie or Daisy I think either of those are just great. In my mind, Molly will probably be used as the name, not just a nickname, for her life. But Maisie or another more nicknamey name will be a little more rotated with Margaret. But, in 20 years I may be totally off base.
We are also a mom-maiden-as-middle family, but my maiden rhymed with husband’s last name, so we went with my mom’s maiden (my middle) instead and that has worked out very well.
Coming in with another Margo suggestion. It’s the name of one of my favorite students, and I ghink it’s great and underused.
I know I’m bias but I have a Molly – her given name – and paused for a second ab it being too “cutesy” but I loved the name and went ahead. In hindsight, it’s silly to think she couldn’t be a judge/ president/ doctor simply bc of her name. Furthermore, she insists on being called Dr. Molly quite frequently (3 year olds kill me) so I’ve gotten quite used to that concept.
I know plenty of adults with more “childlike” names – Buddy, Bessie, Rosie (yes her given name) that I think it’s plenty acceptable!
We continue to LOVE her name 4 years after picking it!
I feel like I say this all the time, but our Margaret (age 5) has never gone by a nickname. We thought we’d call her Meg, or Maggie, or something, but nothing stuck. She’s pure Margaret and it’s not hard at all to have everyone, including at school, call her by her full name. If most nicknames are off the table, you only have to find one if you want to!
Audrey Am0s is such an adorable name.
Congratulations! I’m excited to welcome another “Molly” into the world! My name is Molly and I’m in my mid-twenties and I have never once thought that my name is too cutesy to pursue any career I wish. The only thing I didn’t like about my name growing up was that there were 2 other Molly’s in my class K-8 (small Catholic school), so to me it was just another Katie, Ashley, etc. But since my catholic school days, I don’t run into other Molly’s nearly as often and now truly appreciate my name as I was named after my grandmother (Mary).